96 End of year movement

by mojo 13/04/10, 02:01 am

With the league wrapped up, State Cup on the horizon and June 1st lurking around the corner, will this be the year that the 96 division finally starts to consolidate the top talent or will it remain spread out across the board?

Travel and cost will now become a big player on the top teams that are National/ECNL leagues and/or playing in regular showcase tournaments. Some teams might be more accustomed to traveling while others will get a fresh taste.

I would think that cost would be pretty even when looking at the top 5 or 6 D1 teams.

Comments?

by ontheball 13/04/10, 07:05 am

I beg to differ, the cost for the top 4 will be more due to PL. I know everytime we travel between lodging, meals, and gas we spend about $400-$500 a weekend. Then for the teams who will play ECNL I have heard figures as high as an extra $4-$5K due to flights, hotels, meals, gas, etc. More money is what I see $$$$.

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 07:17 am

ontheball wrote:I beg to differ, the cost for the top 4 will be more due to PL. I know everytime we travel between lodging, meals, and gas we spend about $400-$500 a weekend. Then for the teams who will play ECNL I have heard figures as high as an extra $4-$5K due to flights, hotels, meals, gas, etc. More money is what I see $$$$.

I totally agree! PL is a whippin and even though the games are drivable, the added cost will make PL teams a tough bill to pay!

by Guest 13/04/10, 07:40 am

96Guru wrote:
ontheball wrote:I beg to differ, the cost for the top 4 will be more due to PL. I know everytime we travel between lodging, meals, and gas we spend about $400-$500 a weekend. Then for the teams who will play ECNL I have heard figures as high as an extra $4-$5K due to flights, hotels, meals, gas, etc. More money is what I see $$$$.
I totally agree! PL is a whippin and even though the games are drivable, the added cost will make PL teams a tough bill to pay!

It is a very small amount to pay considering what you will get in return.

by Guest 13/04/10, 07:44 am

mojo wrote:With the league wrapped up, State Cup on the horizon and June 1st lurking around the corner, will this be the year that the 96 division finally starts to consolidate the top talent or will it remain spread out across the board?

Travel and cost will now become a big player on the top teams that are National/ECNL leagues and/or playing in regular showcase tournaments. Some teams might be more accustomed to traveling while others will get a fresh taste.

I would think that cost would be pretty even when looking at the top 5 or 6 D1 teams.

Comments?

The league is not wrapped up yet. Rev and Mustangs should be playing a game sometime this week. to determine the make-up of the next D-1 season.

by charger 13/04/10, 07:49 am

#2420 wrote:
96Guru wrote:
ontheball wrote:I beg to differ, the cost for the top 4 will be more due to PL. I know everytime we travel between lodging, meals, and gas we spend about $400-$500 a weekend. Then for the teams who will play ECNL I have heard figures as high as an extra $4-$5K due to flights, hotels, meals, gas, etc. More money is what I see $$$$.
I totally agree! PL is a whippin and even though the games are drivable, the added cost will make PL teams a tough bill to pay!
It is a very small amount to pay considering what you will get in return.

What is the return, you are getting?

by Gunners 13/04/10, 07:51 am

mojo wrote:With the league wrapped up, State Cup on the horizon and June 1st lurking around the corner, will this be the year that the 96 division finally starts to consolidate the top talent or will it remain spread out across the board?
IMO, the most significant movement since this group went select.

Travel and cost will now become a big player on the top teams that are National/ECNL leagues and/or playing in regular showcase tournaments. Some teams might be more accustomed to traveling while others will get a fresh taste.
Mo $ Mo $ Mo $

I would think that cost would be pretty even when looking at the top 5 or 6 D1 teams.
Probably right as I believe the 5th/6th place teams are in ECNL and will probably pick up tournaments/showcases that will more than make up for the loss of PL.

Comments?

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 08:28 am

charger wrote:
#2420 wrote:
96Guru wrote:
ontheball wrote:I beg to differ, the cost for the top 4 will be more due to PL. I know everytime we travel between lodging, meals, and gas we spend about $400-$500 a weekend. Then for the teams who will play ECNL I have heard figures as high as an extra $4-$5K due to flights, hotels, meals, gas, etc. More money is what I see $$$$.
I totally agree! PL is a whippin and even though the games are drivable, the added cost will make PL teams a tough bill to pay!
It is a very small amount to pay considering what you will get in return.

What is the return, you are getting?

I think it could be argued by some people but I believe the exposure to college coaches is the biggest return. Now that verbal commitments are being made as early as a players sophmore year in high school. I have looked at the attendance list for one 95 game last year and there were 87 college coaches.

Another big part is the fact that players mature and develop off the field from traveling period. Thus, when going to high school and college they will already have the experience of preparing for games on the road and everything it takes to get mentally focused after long trips along with being prepared for what obstacles can be thrown in front of them. Staying at hotels, being around a lot of different players from around the country, the weather etc...
Building their mental strength from the pressure of having so many college coaches watching them doesnt hurt either.

Hopefully, by the time a player graduates, they have been prepared by their current coach for the changes that can take place at the college level. Every coach is different in what they expect so a forward on a D1 team in LH might be offered a scholarship by a coach that wants her to play stopper.

All in all, while the esperience is pricey, we all hope to get it back down the road.

by charger 13/04/10, 08:46 am

So PL is good for the non ECNL or Texans and does not really matter until sophmore year?

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 09:06 am

charger wrote:So PL is good for the non ECNL or Texans and does not really matter until sophmore year?

Not exactly. Texans have national league and a lot of exposure from showcase tournaments along with just being the Texans.

The sophmore year comment was meant to express the fact that colleges are reaching deeper into the age groups in the earlier years. Players getting national exposure at U15, the first year they can showcase, might fair better than players that dont travel at all or play in showcase tournaments. Not a guarantee but high school soccer games have never been known as a feeding ground for college coaches.

If you have a player on a team that does not travel at all and just plays local tournaments, the interest level from colleges other than around the state might not be as abundant.

So, its up to each individual on how and where they want to spend their money. It can be looked at in so many different ways. I guess one of the biggest questions would be how your DD would stand out agaisnt some of the top competition in the country as opposed to competiton here locally in just an everyday tournament.

by dumbdad9596 13/04/10, 09:18 am

I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 09:31 am

dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.

That might not be too far off. Actually, any team that showcases 3 or 4 times a year whether they are ECNL or not, will spend quite a bit of money. People shouldnt be confused thinking that ECNL is this blown up expense league. It is just a defined league that has the showcase tournaments built into it.
If you look at the tournaments that both National league and ECNL teams played in this year, they are the same tournaments that teams would go to to showcase anyway. All the leagues do is breakdown what teams you would play against.

by socrocks 13/04/10, 09:33 am

dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.

I think it will be higher. Although it depends what else you factor in (like parents' airfare, hotel, meals, etc). We spent more than $8k not being in ECNL yet.

by sloppy joe 13/04/10, 09:35 am

96Guru wrote:
charger wrote:So PL is good for the non ECNL or Texans and does not really matter until sophmore year?

Not exactly. Texans have national league and a lot of exposure from showcase tournaments along with just being the Texans.

The sophmore year comment was meant to express the fact that colleges are reaching deeper into the age groups in the earlier years. Players getting national exposure at U15, the first year they can showcase, might fair better than players that dont travel at all or play in showcase tournaments. Not a guarantee but high school soccer games have never been known as a feeding ground for college coaches.

If you have a player on a team that does not travel at all and just plays local tournaments, the interest level from colleges other than around the state might not be as abundant.

So, its up to each individual on how and where they want to spend their money. It can be looked at in so many different ways. I guess one of the biggest questions would be how your DD would stand out agaisnt some of the top competition in the country as opposed to competiton here locally in just an everyday tournament.

Help me understand the economics for players on the top teams:
I recall about $5k per year for LHGCL teams with travel before ENCL. I am going to assume that price drops because ECNL replaces some tournament travel from the past. So, I will assume dues and LHGCL will run around $3k per year for most of these girls on a year when you don't buy uniforms. I suspect that is low, so let me know if I am off.
Travel for ECNL is $4,000-5,000/yr?
Sounds like PL is another $1,600-$2,000/yr?
I assume that these girls do not take part in extra training or conditioning (although I think most do).
So...most of these families now pay $8,600-$10,000/yr without extra training or conditioning? Assuming costs don't go up (that is not consistent with my experience) that is $ 34,400 to $ 40,000 over the next four years. That does not include miscellaneous costs, like gas to get to practice, etc.
A person paying that much better expect one heck of a scholarship if the reason they are playing is to get a scholarship. How much scholarship money would you need to make up for that investment?
And I expect a parent who is hoping for a scholarship for their kid would be mighty unhappy if there kid is riding the pine.
On the other hand, if you have the money, like to travel and enjoy the competition, then more power to you.
Not a comment on anyone's financial decisions, just an observation....

by Gunners 13/04/10, 09:36 am

96Guru wrote:
dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.
That might not be too far off. Actually, any team that showcases 3 or 4 times a year whether they are ECNL or not, will spend quite a bit of money. People shouldnt be confused thinking that ECNL is this blown up expense league. It is just a defined league that has the showcase tournaments built into it.
If you look at the tournaments that both National league and ECNL teams played in this year, they are the same tournaments that teams would go to to showcase anyway. All the leagues do is breakdown what teams you would play against.

I thought National League was two events (Final Four and Disney last year), while ECNL required FOUR events (ie twice the cost).

by socrocks 13/04/10, 09:37 am

96Guru wrote:
dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.
That might not be too far off. Actually, any team that showcases 3 or 4 times a year whether they are ECNL or not, will spend quite a bit of money. People shouldnt be confused thinking that ECNL is this blown up expense league. It is just a defined league that has the showcase tournaments built into it.
If you look at the tournaments that both National league and ECNL teams played in this year, they are the same tournaments that teams would go to to showcase anyway. All the leagues do is breakdown what teams you would play against.

Not necessarily. I don't think any u15 team would Showcase 4 major events (in that year)....and in our case you can add in Houston. At u16 I can imagine the volume of events would pick-up, but I still don't know that the majority of teams would Showcase 5 major events.

by Gunners 13/04/10, 09:43 am

96Guru wrote:
dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.
That might not be too far off. Actually, any team that showcases 3 or 4 times a year whether they are ECNL or not, will spend quite a bit of money. People shouldnt be confused thinking that ECNL is this blown up expense league. It is just a defined league that has the showcase tournaments built into it.
If you look at the tournaments that both National league and ECNL teams played in this year, they are the same tournaments that teams would go to to showcase anyway. All the leagues do is breakdown what teams you would play against.

You sure about that? I have to disagree with you on this one.

by Guest 13/04/10, 09:51 am

For the Top 100 players in the country they are not a good deal. They are going to play soccer at a high level no matter what league they are in.

by dumbdad9596 13/04/10, 09:57 am

aren't the top 100 also the dd's getting the early verbal commitments?

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 10:09 am

Gunners wrote:
96Guru wrote:
dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.
That might not be too far off. Actually, any team that showcases 3 or 4 times a year whether they are ECNL or not, will spend quite a bit of money. People shouldnt be confused thinking that ECNL is this blown up expense league. It is just a defined league that has the showcase tournaments built into it.
If you look at the tournaments that both National league and ECNL teams played in this year, they are the same tournaments that teams would go to to showcase anyway. All the leagues do is breakdown what teams you would play against.

I thought National League was two events (Final Four and Disney last year), while ECNL required FOUR events (ie twice the cost).

Agreed but surely the National League teams showcased in other tournaments also this year, right?

I will retract just a bit, as my friend Gunners made me rethink, being part of ECNL does come with an additional cost in the form of a league fee. I dont think, once divided up, it wouldnt impact individual contributions in huge amounts but it would be added.
I dont know for sure but I would assume National League also encompasses a fee.
Teams not involved in ECNL or National could still showcase locally and in drivable tournaments. There are still plenty to go around but even those might be impacted by turnout somewhere down the road.

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 10:11 am

socrocks wrote:
96Guru wrote:
dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.
That might not be too far off. Actually, any team that showcases 3 or 4 times a year whether they are ECNL or not, will spend quite a bit of money. People shouldnt be confused thinking that ECNL is this blown up expense league. It is just a defined league that has the showcase tournaments built into it.
If you look at the tournaments that both National league and ECNL teams played in this year, they are the same tournaments that teams would go to to showcase anyway. All the leagues do is breakdown what teams you would play against.
Not necessarily. I don't think any u15 team would Showcase 4 major events (in that year)....and in our case you can add in Houston. At u16 I can imagine the volume of events would pick-up, but I still don't know that the majority of teams would Showcase 5 major events.

you are not allowed to disagree with me Socrocks!!

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 10:20 am

#2420 wrote:For the Top 100 players in the country they are not a good deal. They are going to play soccer at a high level no matter what league they are in.

I guess the question is who is deciding the top 100 players???

by Gunners 13/04/10, 10:21 am

96Guru wrote:
Gunners wrote:
96Guru wrote:
dumbdad9596 wrote:I have heard to plan on 8K+ for an ECNL team.
That might not be too far off. Actually, any team that showcases 3 or 4 times a year whether they are ECNL or not, will spend quite a bit of money. People shouldnt be confused thinking that ECNL is this blown up expense league. It is just a defined league that has the showcase tournaments built into it.
If you look at the tournaments that both National league and ECNL teams played in this year, they are the same tournaments that teams would go to to showcase anyway. All the leagues do is breakdown what teams you would play against.

I thought National League was two events (Final Four and Disney last year), while ECNL required FOUR events (ie twice the cost).

Agreed but surely the National League teams showcased in other tournaments also this year, right?

I will retract just a bit, as my friend Gunners made me rethink, being part of ECNL does come with an additional cost in the form of a league fee. I dont think, once divided up, it wouldnt impact individual contributions in huge amounts but it would be added.
I dont know for sure but I would assume National League also encompasses a fee.
Teams not involved in ECNL or National could still showcase locally and in drivable tournaments. There are still plenty to go around but even those might be impacted by turnout somewhere down the road.

The 95s will also be at Regionals and Nationals, but I think (not certain) that's it.

by socrocks 13/04/10, 10:21 am

The cost is not in the league fee...that's trivial in the big picture. The cost is for taking on 4 major travels...in addition to Houston, PL, State Cup, Regionals, LHGCL play, etc. It's the air, hotel, meals, car rentals that make it pricey. I would think that if there were no ECNL, our normal travel (in the Showcase years) would probably be Houston and 2 other major events. We'd also probably do a couple of local Showcase events.

by 96Guru 13/04/10, 10:28 am

socrocks wrote:The cost is not in the league fee...that's trivial in the big picture. The cost is for taking on 4 major travels...in addition to Houston, PL, State Cup, Regionals, LHGCL play, etc. It's the air, hotel, meals, car rentals that make it pricey. I would think that if there were no ECNL, our normal travel (in the Showcase years) would probably be Houston and 2 other major events. We'd also probably do a couple of local Showcase events.

I give up!!!
I guess Sting, Feet, FC and Solar will be more expensive next year.

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96 End of year movement

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