ECNL swings back at DA

Man, I think ECNL is saying choose us or move on.

If this is the case, I wonder how that affects the D'feeters '03 move. Having to share DA with current Solar ECNL or stay and keep current ECNL spot.

SD69 wrote:If this is the case, I wonder how that affects the D'feeters '03 move. Having to share DA with current Solar ECNL or stay and keep current ECNL spot.

Doesn't seem to complicated. Current Solar ECNL becomes DA, Feet ECNL becomes Solar ECNL.

I was considering Zizou's scenario where ECNL doesn't allow their clubs to participate in DA. I would also imagine that if the two merge, the best from Feet and Solar would be DA, and the others would be ECNL. There are some pretty good players at Feet.

BWGophers daily opinion sure to be wrong...

IMO, ECNL throwing down an ultimatum telling clubs they have to choose between DA and ECNL before giving them a chance to demonstrate that they can do both and still field competitive teams, would be business suicide. ECNL has been pretty savvy in building their brand, so I personally would be surprised to see them do this.

However, if after year 1, it's clear that some clubs doing both DA and ECNL are struggling to put forth quality teams in ECNL... different story.

Agree, the second you try and dictate the market, and f0rce people where to spend money, is usually suicide. You have to let money be spent free willing, predict what the market wants, produce it, better than the competition. In my opinion, both ecnl and DA are getting it completely wrong in the beginning. But it will sort itself out eventually, accordingly.

You I believe across the country you are seeing clubs choose one or the other.

Zizou wrote:You I believe across the country you are seeing clubs choose one or the other.

At last count 18-20 clubs were still planning to do both. Yes, it will be interesting.

SD69 wrote:I was considering Zizou's scenario where ECNL doesn't allow their clubs to participate in DA. I would also imagine that if the two merge, the best from Feet and Solar would be DA, and the others would be ECNL. There are some pretty good players at Feet.

After a quick glance there are about 30 clubs doing both ECNL and DA. And a number of these teams are the #1 team in their age group. As said...suicide to make clubs like Surf, PDA, etc. choose.

Zizou wrote:You I believe across the country you are seeing clubs choose one or the other.

Which clubs are you speaking of? Examples?

SoCal blues, San Diego surf, Slammers, Albion, Challenge. I think these clubs have. Where are my fact checkers when I need the?

Zizou wrote:SoCal blues, San Diego surf, Slammers, Albion, Challenge. I think these clubs have. Where are my fact checkers when I need the?

Interesting because SoCal, Surf, Slammers are still listed on both websites.

Boston Breakers
Penn Fusion
Charlotte SA
FC Virginia
Indiana Fire
Sockers FC
Sporting Blue Valley
West Florida Flames
Weston SC
Texas Rush
Eagles SC
Real So Cal
SC del Sol
Colorado Rush
De Anza F*rce
Seattle Reign

This group has apparently decided they cannot do both.

Going off the current DA and ECNL conference maps published on their web sites, I currently count 13 clubs attempting to do both (note that I may not be fully up to speed on all recent announcements like Sting just made):

Crossfire Premier
Slammers
Surf
Blues
West Coast FC
Texans
Solar
FC Dallas
Michigan Hawks
Eclipse Select
FC Stars
Tophat
Concorde Fire

Interesting to note that the 4 SoCal teams on this list (Slammers, Surf, Blues, & West Coast FC) were NOT listed as being a part of the new SoCal DPL League (i.e. DA2).

By my count, 17 clubs that are ECNL in 2016-2017, decided on DA over ECNL.  Add Lonestar and Boca United to 5050's list.  Don't see De Anza F*orce listed on either ECNL or DA site for 2017-2018, unless there has been recent announcement or club name change that I'm not aware of.

bwgophers wrote:Going off the current DA and ECNL conference maps published on their web sites, I currently count 13 clubs attempting to do both (note that I may not be fully up to speed on all recent announcements like Sting just made):

Crossfire Premier
Slammers
Surf
Blues
West Coast FC
Texans
Solar
FC Dallas
Michigan Hawks
Eclipse Select
FC Stars
Tophat
Concorde Fire

Interesting to note that the 4 SoCal teams on this list (Slammers, Surf, Blues, & West Coast FC) were NOT listed as being a part of the new SoCal DPL League (i.e. DA2).

By my count, 17 clubs that are ECNL in 2016-2017, decided on DA over ECNL.  Add Lonestar and Boca United to 5050's list.  Don't see De Anza F*orce listed on either ECNL or DA site for 2017-2018, unless there has been recent announcement or club name change that I'm not aware of.

I must be looking somewhere else, because when I looked at the member club lists I came up with more (not counting the 5050 list of inside knowledge)

Boca
Breakers
CSA
Co Rush
Concorde Fire
Crossfire
Texans
Eagles
Eclipse
FCD
FC Stars
FCVA
Indy Fire
Lonestar
MI Hawks
Penn Fusion
Real CO
Real SoCal
Surf
SC Del Sol
Seattle
PDA
SoCal Blues
Sockers
Solar
Blues
Top Hat
Weston

ElClassico wrote:

bwgophers wrote:Going off the current DA and ECNL conference maps published on their web sites, I currently count 13 clubs attempting to do both (note that I may not be fully up to speed on all recent announcements like Sting just made):

Crossfire Premier
Slammers
Surf
Blues
West Coast FC
Texans
Solar
FC Dallas
Michigan Hawks
Eclipse Select
FC Stars
Tophat
Concorde Fire

Interesting to note that the 4 SoCal teams on this list (Slammers, Surf, Blues, & West Coast FC) were NOT listed as being a part of the new SoCal DPL League (i.e. DA2).

By my count, 17 clubs that are ECNL in 2016-2017, decided on DA over ECNL.  Add Lonestar and Boca United to 5050's list.  Don't see De Anza F*orce listed on either ECNL or DA site for 2017-2018, unless there has been recent announcement or club name change that I'm not aware of.

I must be looking somewhere else, because when I looked at the member club lists I came up with more (not counting the 5050 list of inside knowledge)

Boca
Breakers
CSA
Co Rush
Concorde Fire
Crossfire
Texans
Eagles
Eclipse
FCD
FC Stars
FCVA
Indy Fire
Lonestar
MI Hawks
Penn Fusion
Real CO
Real SoCal
Surf
SC Del Sol
Seattle
PDA
SoCal Blues
Sockers
Solar
Blues
Top Hat
Weston

Make sure you are looking at the 2017-2018 ECNL list, not the 2016-2017 list.  I think your list includes clubs that have already announced that they are leaving ECNL and going DA exclusive.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017/03/14/ecnl-announces-initial-2017-2018-girls-membership/

bwgophers wrote:

ElClassico wrote:

bwgophers wrote:Going off the current DA and ECNL conference maps published on their web sites, I currently count 13 clubs attempting to do both (note that I may not be fully up to speed on all recent announcements like Sting just made):

Crossfire Premier
Slammers
Surf
Blues
West Coast FC
Texans
Solar
FC Dallas
Michigan Hawks
Eclipse Select
FC Stars
Tophat
Concorde Fire

Interesting to note that the 4 SoCal teams on this list (Slammers, Surf, Blues, & West Coast FC) were NOT listed as being a part of the new SoCal DPL League (i.e. DA2).

By my count, 17 clubs that are ECNL in 2016-2017, decided on DA over ECNL.  Add Lonestar and Boca United to 5050's list.  Don't see De Anza F*orce listed on either ECNL or DA site for 2017-2018, unless there has been recent announcement or club name change that I'm not aware of.

I must be looking somewhere else, because when I looked at the member club lists I came up with more (not counting the 5050 list of inside knowledge)

Boca
Breakers
CSA
Co Rush
Concorde Fire
Crossfire
Texans
Eagles
Eclipse
FCD
FC Stars
FCVA
Indy Fire
Lonestar
MI Hawks
Penn Fusion
Real CO
Real SoCal
Surf
SC Del Sol
Seattle
PDA
SoCal Blues
Sockers
Solar
Blues
Top Hat
Weston

Make sure you are looking at the 2017-2018 ECNL list, not the 2016-2017 list.  I think your list includes clubs that have already announced that they are leaving ECNL and going DA exclusive.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017/03/14/ecnl-announces-initial-2017-2018-girls-membership/

"I see" said the blind man. Anyway I think our theory of suicide still holds true.

Everybody seems to be fixated on the "Battle Royale" between DA and ECNL, and who's going to lose.  However, by my count, it's really USYSA and PL/NL that's by far the biggest loser out of all of this.

DA is starting up this year with 69 clubs.  Of those 69, only 30 are currently in ECNL in 2016-2017.  That means DA grabbed 39 clubs that we can only assume were doing primarily USYSA PL/NL this year.

Furthermore, ECNL is going from 84 clubs in 2016-2017 to 79 clubs in 2017-2018, a net loss of 5 clubs, BUT, ECNL has lost 17 clubs to DA, which means that they have added 12 new clubs this year.  Again, the assumption would be that those 12 clubs were doing USYSA this year.

ECNL quality will almost certainly take a hit, but I don't see near the same level of hit that USYSA will be taking.

Sting goes all in on ecnl. What happens when FC Dallas, Texans, and solar drop ecnl? Maybe not this year, but next? When DA has proven to be the top league? Hypothetical. In my opinion, having 3 combined age group teams in dfw, is too small. That is condensing 5 ecnl teams in an age group into basically 1.5 teams. Another question, is say your dad was good enough to make it when the older of the 2 ages, hut not the next year when youngest. What do you do then? Until the next year when the oldest clear out? May be dumb questions, but I don't know the answer.

fireman1594 wrote:Sting goes all in on ecnl. What happens when FC Dallas, Texans, and solar drop ecnl? Maybe not this year, but next? When DA has proven to be the top league? Hypothetical. In my opinion, having 3 combined age group teams in dfw, is too small. That is condensing 5 ecnl teams in an age group into basically 1.5 teams. Another question, is say your dad was good enough to make it when the older of the 2 ages, hut not the next year when youngest. What do you do then? Until the next year when the oldest clear out? May be dumb questions, but I don't know the answer.

is your dad Caitlyn Jenner?

U14, U15, U16/17, U18/19 only two combined age teams.   I would expect this is why most non ECNL+DA clubs will have DA2.  I would also assume Sting at a minimum has veto power over any new ECNL clubs in DFW other than Feet.  Not sure where the Texans stand.  Apparently if you have boys DA and decline girls DA USSF will threaten the club to carry both or none at all -> see Lonestar's about face.

Look at it from another angle.  Adding 51 teams from a lower level than what currently plays ECNL will water down the competition.  

DA supporters claim this will be the top league and all the top players will go there.  Out of 84 ECNL clubs in 2016-2017 there are 67 clubs who disagree and 17 who are "all in" for DA.  That is about 80% retention for ECNL.  There is another 15% of ECNL clubs who are undecided and plan to do both leagues.  Even if all those undecided clubs were to drop ECNL (which is pretty ambitious for a league with no history on the girls side) it would still leave ECNL with about 65% retention.

ECNL adding 12 USYSA lower talented clubs to their league compared to the DA inviting 39 USYSA lower talented clubs is a huge discrepancy.

Playing devil's advocate, what if the pendulum swings the other way?  What if those undecided clubs decide to drop DA for ECNL?  Where would DA get enough teams to make their league worthwhile?  Would they invite more USYSA clubs to fill the league?  

If those clubs who are competing in both leagues decide that the competition level is better in ECNL (looking at the numbers it can go either way) and decide to pull out of DA then the experiment will fail.

SoccerTexas wrote:U14, U15, U16/17, U18/19 only two combined age teams.   I would expect this is why most non ECNL+DA clubs will have DA2.  I would also assume Sting at a minimum has veto power over any new ECNL clubs in DFW other than Feet.  Not sure where the Texans stand.  Apparently if you have boys DA and decline girls DA USSF will threaten the club to carry both or none at all -> see Lonestar's about face.

A lot of people talking like DA2 is a foregone conclusion for the NTX DA clubs. It will be interesting to see how that works out. If my kid wasn't good enough to be in DA, then why the hell do I want to pay an extra $1-2k/year to make plane trips to Colo & KC for league matches? If my kid is a step below DA, she can get all the exposure she needs playing in ECNL and making road trips to Tulsa and SA instead.

If you exclude the Colo & KC clubs, then DA2 would only be 5 clubs in TX. That's not much of a league schedule.

Sorry, meant 2 combined age group teams, across 3 clubs. Equals 1.5 theoretical top teams in an age group where there used to be 5. This is where da missed the mark in my opinion. Yes, it is marketed to top .05 of players. But in order for those players to reach potential, the training is where that happens. They need lots of training against the top 25% of sport. With the best coaches.  You run "athletes" away by making them be soccer specific at 13. Now you fill the gap with top 30-40% players. Doesn't help the top .05 get better. Girls da is fixed simply by dropping other sport nixing. Don't know about yalls, but my dd already trains 4 days a week, would do more if you let her. I have heard it stated before, get creative with the 4 day a week training. PS I wish Caitlyn was my dad! I would prob have a lot more money!

DA 2 has not been sanctioned by the DA if I understand it right? Not even acknowledging it? No free league, no free refs, no free showcases. It is a money grab by da clubs, just like the "composite" teams were and are. A way to slit the throats of independents.

I still have a hard time with the notion that DA will replace ECNL.

For one, how many kids are committed to giving up all other activities just to play soccer? You're talking 100-120 kids with no guarantee those will be the best kids, particularly in the younger U13-U15 age groups.

ECNL is still in a good spot. There are still quality players that would be willing to take the ECNL route surely for the benefits it presents. If ECNL commits suicide, maybe DA2 fills that gap. Something will need too.