hand balls

I do think it’s ironic that we hear the U.S. public consistently demanding smaller government, less bureaucracy, less laws that impinge on our freedoms… But when it comes to sports we want more rules and we want them more strictly enforced.

In sports we insist on being governed more strictly. We want instant video reviews in every sport. We want more referees on the field. We want the pitch-tracker to replace umpires in baseball. America’s most popular game, NFL Football, has that monstrous rulebook because that’s what the organizations want to avoid cheating and injuries.

So which is it, do we want to be governed more or governed less?

You probably already decoded this mystery but I prefer to be governed less when I’m playing and coaching the game of soccer.

Lawnboy wrote:

NasirJones wrote:

Gunner9 wrote:I always found the Law pretty clear. And definitely agree that the center can do a great injustice to the game by not using the Law to teach the game. But what is more disturbing are those among my brethren in black who add their own views to calling a game, e.g. where on the pitch a foul occurs. It's kind of like legislating from the bench. A foul is a foul.

Sorry Gunners, but you are off there....

If a defender arrives with a tackle just a fraction late and takes down the attacker just after the shot gets off in the penalty area, unless clearly reckless, that is a no-call. The thinking is the defender had to be allowed to try and defend the shot. If the same play happens at mid-fileld, a foul everytime.. This exact same difference plays out several times in every match from SDL to Serie A... So dont jump on your fellow Ref too hard, because, as you should know, Referee discrecion is a small part of what makes the game as great maddening as it is...

The Laws are just kind of a suggestions for the Center. He'll take them under advisement.

Long live the king!

What exactly is not reckless about taking down an attacker while entirely missing the ball. It is not a 50/50 that both have rights to challenge on. Intent? Good luck with that! I always want to ask a ref that says the player went for the ball if they are mind readers? The laws of the game says you can not throw your body into an opposing player. Taking down an attacker with no ball is just that; a foul. How about when the same defender does it multple times? Is it a foul then or is the defender allowed to tackle the attacker after every shot they take? Letting players take free hits on others like that is what gets players needlessly injured.

my2cents wrote:

Lawnboy wrote:

NasirJones wrote:

Gunner9 wrote:I always found the Law pretty clear. And definitely agree that the center can do a great injustice to the game by not using the Law to teach the game. But what is more disturbing are those among my brethren in black who add their own views to calling a game, e.g. where on the pitch a foul occurs. It's kind of like legislating from the bench. A foul is a foul.

Sorry Gunners, but you are off there....

If a defender arrives with a tackle just a fraction late and takes down the attacker just after the shot gets off in the penalty area, unless clearly reckless, that is a no-call. The thinking is the defender had to be allowed to try and defend the shot. If the same play happens at mid-fileld, a foul everytime.. This exact same difference plays out several times in every match from SDL to Serie A... So dont jump on your fellow Ref too hard, because, as you should know, Referee discrecion is a small part of what makes the game as great maddening as it is...

The Laws are just kind of a suggestions for the Center. He'll take them under advisement.

Long live the king!

What exactly is not reckless about taking down an attacker while entirely missing the ball. It is not a 50/50 that both have rights to challenge on. Intent? Good luck with that! I always want to ask a ref that says the player went for the ball if they are mind readers? The laws of the game says you can not throw your body into an opposing player. Taking down an attacker with no ball is just that; a foul. How about when the same defender does it multple times? Is it a foul then or is the defender allowed to tackle the attacker after every shot they take? Letting players take free hits on others like that is what gets players needlessly injured.

Agree with my2cents. Use the referee's discretion and LOTG to protect the players - especially the girls. These are our daughters who will grow up to be mothers and wives. 99.9% of them are not future professional soccer players so their games shouldn't be more physical than EPL or rugby before they're even teenagers.

The girls game is unneccesarily violent at all levels. We need more parents who truly care about the safety of these children to put on some emotional kevlar and start reffing games.

bigtex75081 wrote:As a coach, I prefer working with referees that let the kids play and don't interfere with the pace of play. I much prefer a referee that uses the advantage call as opposed to one that wants to teach my kids how to play. (It's my job to teach my kids how to play during practice.) I like referees that, at the end of the game, you hardly realized they were on the field with the kids

I tell you that to admit that I hate the sound of my own whistle when I referee games. It makes my ears ring for the rest of the day and I hate that. I call fouls that need to be called but I consider my primary role out there to be keeping the kids playing safely. I don't consider my role to be one that influences the game. I'm not there to teach unless it is U04-U06. I'm there to make quick decisions and keep the kids playing safely. I do prefer though, at the end of the end of each game, to walk off the field quietly and have no one realize I was even there.

Unless a coach specifically asks me to watch certain issues, I call games the way I like to see them called. To just allow the kids to play the game.

I can barely watch the NFL on TV. The game is so slow and clunky to me now. It seems like every other play results in a flag. Have you ever seen the NFL Rulebook? It's gigantic. I have no idea how those referees can keep up with so many rules. I guess that's why the NFL keeps 8 or 10 referees on the field during play… to keep up with all those crappy rules. I understand why they have all those rules but, for me as a viewer, I find it very boring to watch with the constant stoppages in play.

Soccer is not like that. Have you ever seen the FIFA Laws of the Game? It's surprisingly small. We don't have rules, we have laws. The referee has to interpret those laws based on every situation. We don't have very many rules telling us what can and cannot be done and I think that's a part of what makes soccer so great. It's great in its simplicity.

Great couple of posts. That is part of the why I think soccer is more of a players game rather than a coaches game like football and basketball. One the match begins, the coaches have much less opportunity to impact the outcome of the game. No timeouts to set up specific situations or dictate minute by minute actions of players, though many at the youth level try.

The players capabilities, ability to recognize situations and opportunities and their ability to adapt within the flow of the game is the difference.

Still I agree that at the youth level, for the most part referee's are not strict enough on play that results in dangerous situations regardless of intent or effort.

Lefty wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:As a coach, I prefer working with referees that let the kids play and don't interfere with the pace of play. I much prefer a referee that uses the advantage call as opposed to one that wants to teach my kids how to play. (It's my job to teach my kids how to play during practice.) I like referees that, at the end of the game, you hardly realized they were on the field with the kids

I tell you that to admit that I hate the sound of my own whistle when I referee games. It makes my ears ring for the rest of the day and I hate that. I call fouls that need to be called but I consider my primary role out there to be keeping the kids playing safely. I don't consider my role to be one that influences the game. I'm not there to teach unless it is U04-U06. I'm there to make quick decisions and keep the kids playing safely. I do prefer though, at the end of the end of each game, to walk off the field quietly and have no one realize I was even there.

Unless a coach specifically asks me to watch certain issues, I call games the way I like to see them called. To just allow the kids to play the game.

I can barely watch the NFL on TV. The game is so slow and clunky to me now. It seems like every other play results in a flag. Have you ever seen the NFL Rulebook? It's gigantic. I have no idea how those referees can keep up with so many rules. I guess that's why the NFL keeps 8 or 10 referees on the field during play… to keep up with all those crappy rules. I understand why they have all those rules but, for me as a viewer, I find it very boring to watch with the constant stoppages in play.

Soccer is not like that. Have you ever seen the FIFA Laws of the Game? It's surprisingly small. We don't have rules, we have laws. The referee has to interpret those laws based on every situation. We don't have very many rules telling us what can and cannot be done and I think that's a part of what makes soccer so great. It's great in its simplicity.

Great couple of posts. That is part of the why I think soccer is more of a players game rather than a coaches game like football and basketball. One the match begins, the coaches have much less opportunity to impact the outcome of the game. No timeouts to set up specific situations or dictate minute by minute actions of players, though many at the youth level try.

The players capabilities, ability to recognize situations and opportunities and their ability to adapt within the flow of the game is the difference.

Still I agree that at the youth level, for the most part referee's are not strict enough on play that results in dangerous situations regardless of intent or effort.

Wow! We've changed from handling to refs allowing dangerous plays.

"Lefty wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:
As a coach, I prefer working with referees that let the kids play and don't interfere with the pace of play. I much prefer a referee that uses the advantage call as opposed to one that wants to teach my kids how to play. (It's my job to teach my kids how to play during practice.) I like referees that, at the end of the game, you hardly realized they were on the field with the kids

I tell you that to admit that I hate the sound of my own whistle when I referee games. It makes my ears ring for the rest of the day and I hate that. I call fouls that need to be called but I consider my primary role out there to be keeping the kids playing safely. I don't consider my role to be one that influences the game. I'm not there to teach unless it is U04-U06. I'm there to make quick decisions and keep the kids playing safely. I do prefer though, at the end of the end of each game, to walk off the field quietly and have no one realize I was even there.

Unless a coach specifically asks me to watch certain issues, I call games the way I like to see them called. To just allow the kids to play the game.

I can barely watch the NFL on TV. The game is so slow and clunky to me now. It seems like every other play results in a flag. Have you ever seen the NFL Rulebook? It's gigantic. I have no idea how those referees can keep up with so many rules. I guess that's why the NFL keeps 8 or 10 referees on the field during play… to keep up with all those crappy rules. I understand why they have all those rules but, for me as a viewer, I find it very boring to watch with the constant stoppages in play.

Soccer is not like that. Have you ever seen the FIFA Laws of the Game? It's surprisingly small. We don't have rules, we have laws. The referee has to interpret those laws based on every situation. We don't have very many rules telling us what can and cannot be done and I think that's a part of what makes soccer so great. It's great in its simplicity.


Great couple of posts. That is part of the why I think soccer is more of a players game rather than a coaches game like football and basketball. One the match begins, the coaches have much less opportunity to impact the outcome of the game. No timeouts to set up specific situations or dictate minute by minute actions of players, though many at the youth level try.

The players capabilities, ability to recognize situations and opportunities and their ability to adapt within the flow of the game is the difference.

Still I agree that at the youth level, for the most part referee's are not strict enough on play that results in dangerous situations regardless of intent or effort.


Wow! We've changed from handling to refs allowing dangerous plays."



That ok because it's in the same vein.....not enforcing he rules. Flow of the game ha! Thugs love those words it allows them endless opportunities to foul. Make it painful for those thugs and they will go away. Takedown? Free kick. . Slide from behind ? Penalty kick. You will see coaches cut that out quick .

This should answer everyone question as to Handling and interpretation:
Advise To Referee:

12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING
The offense known as "handling the ball" involves deliberate contact with the ball by a player's hand or
arm (including fingertips, upper arm, or outer shoulder). "Deliberate contact" means that the player
could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player's arms were not in a normal playing
position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially accidental contact for the
purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. Moving hands or arms instinctively to protect the body when
suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not constitute deliberate contact unless there is
subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect
the body at a free kick or similar restart is not likely to produce an infringement unless there is
subsequent action to direct or control the ball. The fact that a player may benefit from the ball
contacting the hand does not transform the otherwise accidental event into an infringement. A player
infringes the Law regarding handling the ball even if direct contact is avoided by holding something in
the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.).
NOTE: In most cases in the Laws of the Game, the words "touch," "play," and "make contact with"
mean the same thing. This is not true in the case of deliberate handling, where the touch, play, or
contact by the offending player must be planned and deliberate.

12.10 RULE OF THUMB FOR "HANDLING"
The rule of thumb for referees is that it is handling if the player plays the ball, but not handling if the
ball plays the player. The referee should punish only deliberate handling of the ball, meaning only
those actions when the player (and not the goalkeeper within the ‘keeper’s own penalty area) strikes or
propels the ball with the hand or arm (shoulder to tip of fingers).

I forgot what age are we talking about? U6/U7? Come on and "be patient with the kids".
If we were talking U12 or older then I could say ok maybe that needs to change.
I remember U8, sorry I was being lazy again.

I remember U8, sorry I was being lazy again

No worries, I give you a pass

“They could call Holding on every single play.” I’ve heard announcers say that several times when I’m watching NFL games on TV. So if there’s somebody breaking the rules, no matter how technical, shouldn’t there be a flag? But would you really want them to call Holding on EVERY SINGLE PLAY?

Wouldn’t that be the worst game ever if the officials did do that? I’ll go on record and say that I wouldn’t enjoy being in a game like that not matter how I was participating. Coaching, playing, working as a vendor, officiating, sitting in the stands, whatever… (As a TV viewer, I’d watch for about 5 minutes and then go do something else.) But they don’t do that. The league instructs the referees not to call holding with every single play despite the rules.

I agree that 15-yard facemask penalties should always be called. Horse-collar tackles should always be called. Helmet-to-helmet collisions should always be called. But Holding should not always be called.

Now to soccer… Fouls that risk the safety of any player should always be called. After that, the referee should work to apply the rules correctly without interfering with the game. They should compliment the game, not become a hindrance to it.

bigtex75081 wrote:“They could call Holding on every single play.” I’ve heard announcers say that several times when I’m watching NFL games on TV. So if there’s somebody breaking the rules, no matter how technical, shouldn’t there be a flag? But would you really want them to call Holding on EVERY SINGLE PLAY?

Wouldn’t that be the worst game ever if the officials did do that? I’ll go on record and say that I wouldn’t enjoy being in a game like that not matter how I was participating. Coaching, playing, working as a vendor, officiating, sitting in the stands, whatever… (As a TV viewer, I’d watch for about 5 minutes and then go do something else.) But they don’t do that. The league instructs the referees not to call holding with every single play despite the rules.

I agree that 15-yard facemask penalties should always be called. Horse-collar tackles should always be called. Helmet-to-helmet collisions should always be called. But Holding should not always be called.

Now to soccer… Fouls that risk the safety of any player should always be called. After that, the referee should work to apply the rules correctly without interfering with the game. They should compliment the game, not become a hindrance to it.

Agree officials should not become a hindrance to the game. However, I've yet to see a NTX game hampered because a ref stopped play too often calling ticky-tack fouls. I have seen numerous games with flagrant violent conduct allowed to continue without so much as a verbal warning. These are not pro football players getting paid millions to put on a show for our entertainment. These are little girls. Mine still believes in Santa. Protect the players.