Are there too many teams/clubs in NTX?

Is it just me or does it seem like just about every team is looking for players?
Most of the larger clubs have several teams with in the club that are looking for players or there are smaller clubs looking for players? I do not know if this is a good or bad problem. It just seems like supply is exceeding demand.

skeets00g wrote:Is it just me or does it seem like just about every team is looking for players?
Most of the larger clubs have several teams with in the club that are looking for players or there are smaller clubs looking for players? I do not know if this is a good or bad problem. It just seems like supply is exceeding demand.

Perhaps you mean demand is exceeding supply.

To answer your question YES. Select means nothing in NTX. If you can pay you can play select soccer. Club, coaches,and parents are all at fault for this. Just my opinion.

Agreed. Forget whether rosters are full. Go see some of them play

Xara wrote:

skeets00g wrote:Is it just me or does it seem like just about every team is looking for players?
Most of the larger clubs have several teams with in the club that are looking for players or there are smaller clubs looking for players? I do not know if this is a good or bad problem. It just seems like supply is exceeding demand.

Perhaps you mean demand is exceeding supply.

Any supply-demand imbalance will be temporary. If there are not enough buyers/consumers for the supply available, either the price will fall (ain't gonna happen since they charge the same price for all, sans scholarship) or supply will disappear (i.e., teams will fold). Buyers/consumers (i.e., parents) are much more at fault than clubs/teams for the supply-demand imbalance since increasing number of parents are willing to pay the academy/select price, Clubs/teams will continue to increase supply as long as demand is there and marginal revenue is higher than marginal cost (which it is). Isn't free market great? If clubs/teams are really smart and want to get the maximum number of buyers, they will charge different prices for varying levels of commitment/skills/competition--highest for most competitive (best coaches, more practices, more tournaments, extras like nutrition/endurance, etc.) and lowest for least competitive (almost like rec but with the "brand" name).

jae wrote:

Xara wrote:

skeets00g wrote:Is it just me or does it seem like just about every team is looking for players?
Most of the larger clubs have several teams with in the club that are looking for players or there are smaller clubs looking for players? I do not know if this is a good or bad problem. It just seems like supply is exceeding demand.

Perhaps you mean demand is exceeding supply.

Any supply-demand imbalance will be temporary. If there are not enough buyers/consumers for the supply available, either the price will fall (ain't gonna happen since they charge the same price for all, sans scholarship) or supply will disappear (i.e., teams will fold). Buyers/consumers (i.e., parents) are much more at fault than clubs/teams for the supply-demand imbalance since increasing number of parents are willing to pay the academy/select price, Clubs/teams will continue to increase supply as long as demand is there and marginal revenue is higher than marginal cost (which it is). Isn't free market great? If clubs/teams are really smart and want to get the maximum number of buyers, they will charge different prices for varying levels of commitment/skills/competition--highest for most competitive (best coaches, more practices, more tournaments, extras like nutrition/endurance, etc.) and lowest for least competitive (almost like rec but with the "brand" name).

Already happens here in NTX. Ask around, the clubs know how to work it.

There are to many clubs it costs to much money and my DD new FC Dallas jersey is sporting some god awful looking sponsor on the front of one of the Jersey's and think we pay more for the uniforms now. NTX soccer is a money making machine. Oh well complaining does no good I pay my blood money and sit on the sidelines cheering like the rest.

Bold Prediction: Ballhead will probably be on here in the next few minutes getting all weepy because I’m getting ready to use the words “big clubs”.

We do have too many teams here in NTX. We’re using a very loose definition for the word “Select” when we call this “Select Soccer”. Is this really select when a team has to take every player that shows up for their tryouts in order to fill their roster? Are we really “select” or are we really only proving that we will pay for things that others couldn’t or wouldn’t?

This market DOES correct itself but the unfortunate part about that is the corrections usually cost us the smaller clubs and independents. It is the smaller organizations that vanish. The big clubs have the volume to withstand the market corrections.

Last year the Liverpool website listed ten (10) ’03 Girls squads. That is 10 squads in just one (1) club alone. I couldn’t keep track of them all with their weird naming convention. There were so many I didn’t know how to differentiate them. With that many squads in a small geographic area, that negatively impacts the neighboring smaller clubs as well as the Rec associations.

imho, by u15 if my dd was playing below d2 lh (possibly d1?) i would have her play rec or form a team of similiar level players and play for free in d3 or ppl. The lessons that come from team sports can be learned at little/no cost, and the chances of d3 and below players playing in college won't increase because of their club affiliation.

Always in interesting discussion; some version of which gets started a couple times a year.

I’ve only been in ntx for 5 years and had kids in rec, academy, and select over that time. i don't know when or how it got so out of hand, but do agree the situation is not good.

I can't necessarily agree that it will ever correct itself. The situation is so dynamic with no specific root cause or driving factor to be controlled.

Are the weak rec leagues the cause or the victim? Sadly, rec is now only for toddlers, or unathletic older kids coached by dads. (Please don't throw the Alex Morgan example back at me as it is completely not relevant to ntx). I think the only thing to end this trend is to make rec free and allow club kids to play for extra touches, but clearly we can see what a fiasco that would be.

Are the big clubs the problem or are they just going with the flow? If kids keep showing up and paying the bill, even though they’re not club material, they’ll take the money. If the low talent pool actually weakened the club I think it would stop, but all the big clubs still have top teams to carry their reputations in the area, the state, and even nationally. And the abundance of leagues keeps providing a place for the weaker teams to play at the expense of the rec programs.

And what about the small clubs and indys? Well it’s the American entrepreneurial spirit I guess that motivates others that they have a better way. And if they can find kids, train kids, and win games, they’ll stay motivated. My 02 plays for a small club and they just qualified LH D1 so that just perpetuates the motivation for others out there that it can be done.

As a contrasting example, my 00 is trying out for one of the few lacrosse clubs in the metroplex in a few weeks. The pool of quality select level coaches and teams is very small even though the player demand is growing. The team just finished 2nd in a national tournament in Denver and is not looking for players just to grow the club with weaker talent. The tryout costs $50 with no guarantees she’ll get a spot. Now that is “select”.

Like it or not, I’m afraid our soccer system is here to stay.

DrSoccer wrote:imho, by u15 if my dd was playing below d2 lh (possibly d1?) i would have her play rec or form a team of similiar level players and play for free in d3 or ppl. The lessons that come from team sports can be learned at little/no cost, and the chances of d3 and below players playing in college won't increase because of their club affiliation.

I completely agree. There are really only a small group of truly select players out there and you will find those on ECNL and the top of D1 teams. If my kid gets to U13 or so and is not on a D1 team, them we will go back to REC for the smaller fees as well. With so many clubs, too many parents want to convince themselves and their daughters that they are select level players, when they really are not.

When I was playing as a U12 or so kid, I had to tryout for a team with over 100 other kids for only 15 spots on the team. That does not happen very often in North Texas because there are so many clubs. But, if you made that team, it meant something.

Forget all the supply demand stuff. Somewhere "rec" became a dirty word in the minds of soccer parents, and everyone started running for select. Now "select" is becoming the dirty word, and ECNL is where it's at. If ECNL continues to expand, I can see select being what rec is now in the minds of soccer parents, and they will bar no expense in the quest to get Suzy on the U-13 ECNL team.

bobmac15 wrote:Always in interesting discussion; some version of which gets started a couple times a year.

I’ve only been in ntx for 5 years and had kids in rec, academy, and select over that time. i don't know when or how it got so out of hand, but do agree the situation is not good.

I can't necessarily agree that it will ever correct itself. The situation is so dynamic with no specific root cause or driving factor to be controlled.

Are the weak rec leagues the cause or the victim? Sadly, rec is now only for toddlers, or unathletic older kids coached by dads. (Please don't throw the Alex Morgan example back at me as it is completely not relevant to ntx). I think the only thing to end this trend is to make rec free and allow club kids to play for extra touches, but clearly we can see what a fiasco that would be.

Are the big clubs the problem or are they just going with the flow? If kids keep showing up and paying the bill, even though they’re not club material, they’ll take the money. If the low talent pool actually weakened the club I think it would stop, but all the big clubs still have top teams to carry their reputations in the area, the state, and even nationally. And the abundance of leagues keeps providing a place for the weaker teams to play at the expense of the rec programs.

And what about the small clubs and indys? Well it’s the American entrepreneurial spirit I guess that motivates others that they have a better way. And if they can find kids, train kids, and win games, they’ll stay motivated. My 02 plays for a small club and they just qualified LH D1 so that just perpetuates the motivation for others out there that it can be done.

As a contrasting example, my 00 is trying out for one of the few lacrosse clubs in the metroplex in a few weeks. The pool of quality select level coaches and teams is very small even though the player demand is growing. The team just finished 2nd in a national tournament in Denver and is not looking for players just to grow the club with weaker talent. The tryout costs $50 with no guarantees she’ll get a spot. Now that is “select”.

Like it or not, I’m afraid our soccer system is here to stay.

Hey...you forgot Alex Morgan?!?!

Guys....its a money grab. But do you find fault with the clubs for building a business? I dont. And, every now and then along the way a kid or 2 ends up being pretty good and getting to move up and play at really high levels.

My girlie is u18 now, but when we were playing back in SDL and PAL, I remember thinking back to my childhood (you know...late 70s, early 80s...when there was maybe 3 or 4 select teams in DALLAS for boys) that unless you were the BOMB you werent "select" quality. I didnt think my kid had "it". So, we powered down some....then she was asked to play indoor with a team that went to the QT and got into DI. Needless to say I was hooked and booked, but then we got relegated to DII after 18 months in DI, and you know....THERE WAS NO WAY WE WERE PLAYING IN DII. Well...we did. Had a pretty good coach, the moved teams in DII and had a pretty darn good coach that was replaced by a pretty darn good coach. The girls were developing and playing ok. as they got older...1 by 1, some of the girls got picked off by top teams in DI, PL, and eventually they moved to ECNL. My girlie was lucky enough to be one of them. Shes going to play college ball.

The moral to this story is....the machine is the machine.....use the machine to your benefit, or dont, but always know....its a machine, so theres no use in hating it.

RLW, So you think there are about 100 or 120 truly select players per age group in the Metroplex Population of 6.5 million (plus also Lubbock, Amarillo, Waco, Midland, east TX and other locations that have teams trying to qualify for Classic League)?