Are these the NFL Ref's of Select Soccer?

Sooo... I am really having a hard time being forced to watch game after game of bad refs with a God complex. My daughters game this weekend just took the cake for me! I understand that the parents are a big problem and agree they should be tossed for bad behavior, but isn't it just as bad to continually send out a bad ref. Some of these bad calls or missed calls can lead to injury or punishment that the players have to live with. Lake Highlands wont even return a call to ask a question and you certainly can't ask the ref's anything. I am surprised we as parents are even allowed to make eye contact with them. I am sure that will go away in the next blast email!

Okay rant over, but seriously, Lake Highlands has dropped the ball somewhere. Did the soccer refs go on strike and we are in an NFL situation?

selectfan9903 wrote:Sooo... I am really having a hard time being forced to watch game after game of bad refs with a God complex. My daughters game this weekend just took the cake for me! I understand that the parents are a big problem and agree they should be tossed for bad behavior, but isn't it just as bad to continually send out a bad ref. Some of these bad calls or missed calls can lead to injury or punishment that the players have to live with. Lake Highlands wont even return a call to ask a question and you certainly can't ask the ref's anything. I am surprised we as parents are even allowed to make eye contact with them. I am sure that will go away in the next blast email!

Okay rant over, but seriously, Lake Highlands has dropped the ball somewhere. Did the soccer refs go on strike and we are in an NFL situation?

So glad you posted this. There really has been no mention of poor refs, LHGCL sucks, their emails or anything, so this new information should be a real eye opener.

As I think I've read somewhere before, "not every thought deserves to be a new thread."

inthenet wrote:

selectfan9903 wrote:Sooo... I am really having a hard time being forced to watch game after game of bad refs with a God complex. My daughters game this weekend just took the cake for me! I understand that the parents are a big problem and agree they should be tossed for bad behavior, but isn't it just as bad to continually send out a bad ref. Some of these bad calls or missed calls can lead to injury or punishment that the players have to live with. Lake Highlands wont even return a call to ask a question and you certainly can't ask the ref's anything. I am surprised we as parents are even allowed to make eye contact with them. I am sure that will go away in the next blast email!

Okay rant over, but seriously, Lake Highlands has dropped the ball somewhere. Did the soccer refs go on strike and we are in an NFL situation?

So glad you posted this. There really has been no mention of poor refs, LHGCL sucks, their emails or anything, so this new information should be a real eye opener.

As I think I've read somewhere before, "not every thought deserves to be a new thread."

If you have the enegry to actually follow thru - the leage has a form you can fill out and it has to be filed - in a few weeks you will be offered some times for a formal hearing.... I suggest you actually be on the same page as you coach on this before doing it. If you want to just vent - we are here for you!!!

Hook It wrote:

inthenet wrote:

selectfan9903 wrote:Sooo... I am really having a hard time being forced to watch game after game of bad refs with a God complex. My daughters game this weekend just took the cake for me! I understand that the parents are a big problem and agree they should be tossed for bad behavior, but isn't it just as bad to continually send out a bad ref. Some of these bad calls or missed calls can lead to injury or punishment that the players have to live with. Lake Highlands wont even return a call to ask a question and you certainly can't ask the ref's anything. I am surprised we as parents are even allowed to make eye contact with them. I am sure that will go away in the next blast email!

Okay rant over, but seriously, Lake Highlands has dropped the ball somewhere. Did the soccer refs go on strike and we are in an NFL situation?

So glad you posted this. There really has been no mention of poor refs, LHGCL sucks, their emails or anything, so this new information should be a real eye opener.

As I think I've read somewhere before, "not every thought deserves to be a new thread."

If you have the enegry to actually follow thru - the leage has a form you can fill out and it has to be filed - in a few weeks you will be offered some times for a formal hearing.... I suggest you actually be on the same page as you coach on this before doing it. If you want to just vent - we are here for you!!!

Have you looked at the form? It can only be submitted by the coach. I don't think they are looking to set up hearings for spectators who want to complain about a referee.

How many times must I explain this? You are all getting exactly what you pay for. The refs make jack-squat, but the expectation is they should provide nothing short of excellent work at all times. For what they make, I'd just be glad they actually show up and even try.

ballhead wrote:

Hook It wrote:

inthenet wrote:

selectfan9903 wrote:Sooo... I am really having a hard time being forced to watch game after game of bad refs with a God complex. My daughters game this weekend just took the cake for me! I understand that the parents are a big problem and agree they should be tossed for bad behavior, but isn't it just as bad to continually send out a bad ref. Some of these bad calls or missed calls can lead to injury or punishment that the players have to live with. Lake Highlands wont even return a call to ask a question and you certainly can't ask the ref's anything. I am surprised we as parents are even allowed to make eye contact with them. I am sure that will go away in the next blast email!

Okay rant over, but seriously, Lake Highlands has dropped the ball somewhere. Did the soccer refs go on strike and we are in an NFL situation?

So glad you posted this. There really has been no mention of poor refs, LHGCL sucks, their emails or anything, so this new information should be a real eye opener.

As I think I've read somewhere before, "not every thought deserves to be a new thread."

If you have the enegry to actually follow thru - the leage has a form you can fill out and it has to be filed - in a few weeks you will be offered some times for a formal hearing.... I suggest you actually be on the same page as you coach on this before doing it. If you want to just vent - we are here for you!!!

Have you looked at the form? It can only be submitted by the coach. I don't think they are looking to set up hearings for spectators who want to complain about a referee.

Yes, NTSSA OUTDOOR REFEREE'S MISCONDUCT REPORT: http://www.ntxsoccer.org/UserFiles/File/Referee%20Misconduct%20Report-Website.doc
I agree this forms intent is for Refs to report misconduct, but it can be sent in by a coach/ or independent to also report any incident.
Fun part about it is the PPT on the A to Z's of misconduct management - give it a look. Lots of pretty graphics, oooo aaahhhh.
http://www.ntxsoccer.org/UserFiles/File/AtoZofAD.ppt

As soon as I get over my rehab from my surgery, I'll be back to help settle all of this down!

Xara wrote:How many times must I explain this? You are all getting exactly what you pay for. The refs make jack-squat, but the expectation is they should provide nothing short of excellent work at all times. For what they make, I'd just be glad they actually show up and even try.

So much truth to this.....why not collect a bit more $/player each season and pay them better - however, there needs to be a way to rate the refs so that you can continuously elim the worst and replace them with newer blood.

Hook It wrote:

ballhead wrote:

Hook It wrote:

inthenet wrote:

selectfan9903 wrote:Sooo... I am really having a hard time being forced to watch game after game of bad refs with a God complex. My daughters game this weekend just took the cake for me! I understand that the parents are a big problem and agree they should be tossed for bad behavior, but isn't it just as bad to continually send out a bad ref. Some of these bad calls or missed calls can lead to injury or punishment that the players have to live with. Lake Highlands wont even return a call to ask a question and you certainly can't ask the ref's anything. I am surprised we as parents are even allowed to make eye contact with them. I am sure that will go away in the next blast email!

Okay rant over, but seriously, Lake Highlands has dropped the ball somewhere. Did the soccer refs go on strike and we are in an NFL situation?

So glad you posted this. There really has been no mention of poor refs, LHGCL sucks, their emails or anything, so this new information should be a real eye opener.

As I think I've read somewhere before, "not every thought deserves to be a new thread."

If you have the enegry to actually follow thru - the leage has a form you can fill out and it has to be filed - in a few weeks you will be offered some times for a formal hearing.... I suggest you actually be on the same page as you coach on this before doing it. If you want to just vent - we are here for you!!!

Have you looked at the form? It can only be submitted by the coach. I don't think they are looking to set up hearings for spectators who want to complain about a referee.

Yes, NTSSA OUTDOOR REFEREE'S MISCONDUCT REPORT: http://www.ntxsoccer.org/UserFiles/File/Referee%20Misconduct%20Report-Website.doc
I agree this forms intent is for Refs to report misconduct, but it can be sent in by a coach/ or independent to also report any incident.
Fun part about it is the PPT on the A to Z's of misconduct management - give it a look. Lots of pretty graphics, oooo aaahhhh.
http://www.ntxsoccer.org/UserFiles/File/AtoZofAD.ppt

First, that form is not from the league, its from North Texas Soccer. There is a difference.

Second, as you note, that form is for a referee to use, not for a spectator to use to complain about the quality of the referee.

The only way a spectator is going to get a hearing on a referee is if some specific misconduct occurred, a ref cursed at you or your dd, hit you or your dd, etc.

I do not believe there is any avenue for a spectator to get an A&D hearing on a referee from either NTX or LHGCL without some misconduct on the part of the referee. The OP mentions bad calls and missed calls, and I can't imagine either body is going to convene an A&D hearing because a spectator thought there were some bad calls or missed calls. There would be little time for anything besides hearings if that were the case.

If the coach feels that the referee deserves it, he/she can fill out the form and send it in to the league. I asked our commissioner last year how often that happens, and was told almost never.

Xara wrote:How many times must I explain this? You are all getting exactly what you pay for. The refs make jack-squat, but the expectation is they should provide nothing short of excellent work at all times. For what they make, I'd just be glad they actually show up and even try.

20 bucks an hour is jack-squat?

Hook It wrote:

Xara wrote:How many times must I explain this? You are all getting exactly what you pay for. The refs make jack-squat, but the expectation is they should provide nothing short of excellent work at all times. For what they make, I'd just be glad they actually show up and even try.

So much truth to this.....why not collect a bit more $/player each season and pay them better - however, there needs to be a way to rate the refs so that you can continuously elim the worst and replace them with newer blood.

Great idea!! Here you go Hook It:

http://www.ntxsoccer.org/referee/becomeareferee.aspx

ballhead wrote:

Hook It wrote:

ballhead wrote:

Hook It wrote:

inthenet wrote:

selectfan9903 wrote:Sooo... I am really having a hard time being forced to watch game after game of bad refs with a God complex. My daughters game this weekend just took the cake for me! I understand that the parents are a big problem and agree they should be tossed for bad behavior, but isn't it just as bad to continually send out a bad ref. Some of these bad calls or missed calls can lead to injury or punishment that the players have to live with. Lake Highlands wont even return a call to ask a question and you certainly can't ask the ref's anything. I am surprised we as parents are even allowed to make eye contact with them. I am sure that will go away in the next blast email!

Okay rant over, but seriously, Lake Highlands has dropped the ball somewhere. Did the soccer refs go on strike and we are in an NFL situation?

So glad you posted this. There really has been no mention of poor refs, LHGCL sucks, their emails or anything, so this new information should be a real eye opener.

As I think I've read somewhere before, "not every thought deserves to be a new thread."

If you have the enegry to actually follow thru - the leage has a form you can fill out and it has to be filed - in a few weeks you will be offered some times for a formal hearing.... I suggest you actually be on the same page as you coach on this before doing it. If you want to just vent - we are here for you!!!

Have you looked at the form? It can only be submitted by the coach. I don't think they are looking to set up hearings for spectators who want to complain about a referee.

Yes, NTSSA OUTDOOR REFEREE'S MISCONDUCT REPORT: http://www.ntxsoccer.org/UserFiles/File/Referee%20Misconduct%20Report-Website.doc
I agree this forms intent is for Refs to report misconduct, but it can be sent in by a coach/ or independent to also report any incident.
Fun part about it is the PPT on the A to Z's of misconduct management - give it a look. Lots of pretty graphics, oooo aaahhhh.
http://www.ntxsoccer.org/UserFiles/File/AtoZofAD.ppt

First, that form is not from the league, its from North Texas Soccer. There is a difference.

Second, as you note, that form is for a referee to use, not for a spectator to use to complain about the quality of the referee.

The only way a spectator is going to get a hearing on a referee is if some specific misconduct occurred, a ref cursed at you or your dd, hit you or your dd, etc.

I do not believe there is any avenue for a spectator to get an A&D hearing on a referee from either NTX or LHGCL without some misconduct on the part of the referee. The OP mentions bad calls and missed calls, and I can't imagine either body is going to convene an A&D hearing because a spectator thought there were some bad calls or missed calls. There would be little time for anything besides hearings if that were the case.

If the coach feels that the referee deserves it, he/she can fill out the form and send it in to the league. I asked our commissioner last year how often that happens, and was told almost never.

Yep, my bad. Mixed those up for sure. LH form leaves no room for doubt - coach is only interface. Thanks for the clafification. I also agree, coaches don't want to do it...got better things to do.

Very funny....

Hook It wrote:

Xara wrote:How many times must I explain this? You are all getting exactly what you pay for. The refs make jack-squat, but the expectation is they should provide nothing short of excellent work at all times. For what they make, I'd just be glad they actually show up and even try.

So much truth to this.....why not collect a bit more $/player each season and pay them better - however, there needs to be a way to rate the refs so that you can continuously elim the worst and replace them with newer blood.

So we should give them a pay raise for a poor job performance, the worse they do the more they get; sounds reasonable! I do agree with the rate and replace, maybe there is a shortage, maybe its due to the pay rate.

easy way to fix this problem , get off the sideline and get on the field, go pay your dues take the test and then you can find out how easy it is to ref a soccer game , if you are not willing to do this then sit down be quite and enjoy the game your watching

longtimewatcher wrote:easy way to fix this problem , get off the sideline and get on the field, go pay your dues take the test and then you can find out how easy it is to ref a soccer game , if you are not willing to do this then sit down be quite and enjoy the game your watching

THIS!!!

longtimewatcher wrote:easy way to fix this problem , get off the sideline and get on the field, go pay your dues take the test and then you can find out how easy it is to ref a soccer game , if you are not willing to do this then sit down be quite and enjoy the game your watching

So if you don't like the wait staff get out of your chair and start serving tables? How about expecting a person to do their job, not all do a bad job, but some are horrible; maybe accountability should be applied as it is in most jobs.

TNT wrote:

longtimewatcher wrote:easy way to fix this problem , get off the sideline and get on the field, go pay your dues take the test and then you can find out how easy it is to ref a soccer game , if you are not willing to do this then sit down be quite and enjoy the game your watching

So if you don't like the wait staff get out of your chair and start serving tables? How about expecting a person to do their job, not all do a bad job, but some are horrible; maybe accountability should be applied as it is in most jobs.

If your kids are spending a huge amount of their time and energy in the restuarant, and you're concerned for their well being, and you feel you could do something to make a difference, then YES, get involved. It's not just a job.

[edit] though I agree wholeheartedly with your accountability point[/edit]

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

TNT wrote:

longtimewatcher wrote:easy way to fix this problem , get off the sideline and get on the field, go pay your dues take the test and then you can find out how easy it is to ref a soccer game , if you are not willing to do this then sit down be quite and enjoy the game your watching

So if you don't like the wait staff get out of your chair and start serving tables? How about expecting a person to do their job, not all do a bad job, but some are horrible; maybe accountability should be applied as it is in most jobs.

If your kids are spending a huge amount of their time and energy in the restuarant, and you're concerned for their well being, and you feel you could do something to make a difference, then YES, get involved. It's not just a job.

[edit] though I agree wholeheartedly with your accountability point[/edit]

If the job is more desireable (pays better) it will improve the over all quality of the refs! You wont make it perfect (see the NFL as a reference), but it will be a lot better. Can you imagine a system that screens and monitors refs and they get rewarded by this higher pay if they are doing a good job. All the good refs will migrate to this system that pays the best even if they are held to a higher standard.

How much do you think Center and ARs refs make? My son makes $23 for AR duties per game, I forget the CR pay. He is a higher level ref though. Some orgs pay more based on your level. So unless LHGCL pays less than railroad or rec games, I say they get a fair pay.

Some refs are not good, but I would say parents are much worse. Most don't know the rules at all and want to "help" the refs frequently.

Common and frequent funny stories.
Parent berates the ref because their daughter was touched, no touching in soccer correct?
Daughter went cleats up and dangerous, but she did not foul because she got the ball.
Ball was out, it touched the line.
Handball, it touched their hand

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

TNT wrote:

longtimewatcher wrote:easy way to fix this problem , get off the sideline and get on the field, go pay your dues take the test and then you can find out how easy it is to ref a soccer game , if you are not willing to do this then sit down be quite and enjoy the game your watching

So if you don't like the wait staff get out of your chair and start serving tables? How about expecting a person to do their job, not all do a bad job, but some are horrible; maybe accountability should be applied as it is in most jobs.

If your kids are spending a huge amount of their time and energy in the restuarant, and you're concerned for their well being, and you feel you could do something to make a difference, then YES, get involved. It's not just a job.

[edit] though I agree wholeheartedly with your accountability point[/edit]

I guess we should all just home school also as we expect teachers to do a professional job even though their pay is not enough, and maybe we should become a doctor as well to ensure they are receiving proper medical attention, and then on the weekends I could referee their soccer games. If I am paying I do not expect to have to do someones job for them to receive proper service and anyone who says thats the answer must be a ref.

TNT wrote:
I guess we should all just home school also as we expect teachers to do a professional job even though their pay is not enough, and maybe we should become a doctor as well to ensure they are receiving proper medical attention, and then on the weekends I could referee their soccer games. If I am paying I do not expect to have to do someones job for them to receive proper service and anyone who says thats the answer must be a ref.

School is another great example. Some parents incessantly whine and complain about goings on with their kid's school. Others get involved in the PTA, try to get on boards, or otherwise get involved. Your taxes are going out the door regardless. If you're not satisfied, do something about it. Otherwise shut up.

TNT wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

TNT wrote:

longtimewatcher wrote:easy way to fix this problem , get off the sideline and get on the field, go pay your dues take the test and then you can find out how easy it is to ref a soccer game , if you are not willing to do this then sit down be quite and enjoy the game your watching

So if you don't like the wait staff get out of your chair and start serving tables? How about expecting a person to do their job, not all do a bad job, but some are horrible; maybe accountability should be applied as it is in most jobs.

If your kids are spending a huge amount of their time and energy in the restuarant, and you're concerned for their well being, and you feel you could do something to make a difference, then YES, get involved. It's not just a job.

[edit] though I agree wholeheartedly with your accountability point[/edit]

I guess we should all just home school also as we expect teachers to do a professional job even though their pay is not enough, and maybe we should become a doctor as well to ensure they are receiving proper medical attention, and then on the weekends I could referee their soccer games. If I am paying I do not expect to have to do someones job for them to receive proper service and anyone who says thats the answer must be a ref.

You going to pay the ref the same as the doctor? It's also common to hear from teachers that the most successful students are the ones with involved parents.