Moving team

Looking for help. I know a number of you have had a long relationship with club soccer in NTX. My dd is part of a LHGCL team that has a strong desire to change clubs to get as far away from our coach as possible. There are very good reasons for this desire that don't need to be discussed here but could use some advice.

LHGCL ruless state that a 75% majority is required to move a team between Feb. 1st and April 1st. We have well over that percentage who want to move.

Here is the problem:
NTSSA rules state you must have 100% parental sign off to change a teams name during the soccer year July 1- end of June. We do not have the 100%. sitting at about 90%.

Has anyone every encountered this situation before? Is there any loophole that NTSSA would accept to allow the name change?

Thanks

not sure I get it.... why would 100% want to move, but someone have an issue with changing names?

If the team moves, the name will have to change wouldn't it?

You can't be named Sting Plaid and play for Solar could you?

golgolgol wrote:not sure I get it.... why would 100% want to move, but someone have an issue with changing names?

If the team moves, the name will have to change wouldn't it?

You can't be named Sting Plaid and play for Solar could you?

I think what he's saying is that 100% of the families aren't on board with changing the club/coach. Unfortunately, unless they can get 100% of the families to sign the name change petition, they are at the mercy of whatever their current club decides to do about their situation.

I believe the OP is misinterpreting the 75% rule in LHGCL regading Feb-Apr. The 75% LHGCL rule has to do with ownership of a league bye carrying over from one year to the next. The club owns the bye for a team UNLESS someone registers a team next summer to play with LHGCL, and that team's official NTSSA roster contains at least 75% of the players from the previous year's NTSSA roster, as it was on April 1st of that previous year. i.e. Let's say that on April 1, 2013, 16 girls were on the NTTSA roster for Awesome FC '02 who was playing in Lake Highlands U11, finished in 16th place and owned a bye into U12 D2. Over the summer, 12 of the 16 kids decided that they had enough of Awesome FC, and decided to move in unison and all signed on to play for the same Wicked Cool SC. Since 12/16 or 75% of those kids on the Wicked Cool SC roster, were on the April 1, 2013 Awesome FC '02 roster, the Wicked Cool SC teams owns the D2 bye for U12. However, if only 11 kids from Awesome FC '02 decided to move Wicked Cool SC, Awesome FC would own the D2 bye and could put ANY team that they wanted to into D12 U12, while Wicked Cool SC would have to go to the QT and try to qualify for one of the four "open" spots in U12 D3.

ah, I read that too fast.... I somehow thought they said 100% wanted to move, but they said 'well over' the 75% want to.

something like this would be best discussed with someone from LHGCL. I'm sure the team manager could find who to talk to, or a DOC from the club you want to go to can help find a contact at LHGCL to straighten this out for you.

If the club is smart, they will change coaches and try to keep you with the existing club.

GoinToGoal wrote:Looking for help. I know a number of you have had a long relationship with club soccer in NTX. My dd is part of a LHGCL team that has a strong desire to change clubs to get as far away from our coach as possible. There are very good reasons for this desire that don't need to be discussed here but could use some advice.

LHGCL ruless state that a 75% majority is required to move a team between Feb. 1st and April 1st. We have well over that percentage who want to move.

Here is the problem:
NTSSA rules state you must have 100% parental sign off to change a teams name during the soccer year July 1- end of June. We do not have the 100%. sitting at about 90%.

Has anyone every encountered this situation before? Is there any loophole that NTSSA would accept to allow the name change?

Thanks

Best of luck with the change. Just dont go to solar or liverpool

Soccer Addict is correct the 75% is related to the bye. However the bye locks on April 1st. So if we move to Awesome FC our bye goes with us as long as 75% move. Wherever we are on April 1st is who has control of the bye.

The NTSSA rule is simply to record the name change from "Wicked Cool FC" to "Awesome FC". So... without the name change the 10% of our roster that doesn't want to move gets to keep the bye at Wicked Cool FC and the 90% that earned their place in Lake Highlands is left out in the cold.

golgolgol wrote:ah, I read that too fast.... I somehow thought they said 100% wanted to move, but they said 'well over' the 75% want to.

something like this would be best discussed with someone from LHGCL. I'm sure the team manager could find who to talk to, or a DOC from the club you want to go to can help find a contact at LHGCL to straighten this out for you.

If the club is smart, they will change coaches and try to keep you with the existing club.

I doubt LHGCL is going to buck any NTSSA rules, and the NTSSA rules are pretty clear on this one. You need 100% family signatures on a name change petition, or control of the team remains with the current club through June 30, 2013. Any exception to this would have to come from NTSSA, not LHGCL. So NTSSA would be where the conversations need to start.

Good luck with this. Some years ago, my dd's team had a similar issue. We had 17 of 18 families on board to move. The lone holdout prevented us from officially moving (and retaining the bye) until June 30. NTSSA also informed us that any coach who coached us in tournament play would face a 1 year suspension since we were still officially "wicked cool fc". The kids coached themselves during the Challenge College Showcase in mid-June.

GoinToGoal wrote:Soccer Addict is correct the 75% is related to the bye. However the bye locks on April 1st. So if we move to Awesome FC our bye goes with us as long as 75% move. Wherever we are on April 1st is who has control of the bye.

The NTSSA rule is simply to record the name change from "Wicked Cool FC" to "Awesome FC". So... without the name change the 10% of our roster that doesn't want to move gets to keep the bye at Wicked Cool FC and the 90% that earned their place in Lake Highlands is left out in the cold.

That is true only as long as <75% of the names on the April 1st NTSSA roster don't sign together on a different NTSSA roster in July. If >75% of those names sign together on a different NTSSA roster in July, and submit the paperwork supporting that with their registration in LHGCL for the 2013-2014 season, the new team now owns the bye.

I know this for a fact because that is exactly what happened with my DD's team this past year. On April 1, 2012 we were a Dallas Texans Team with 14 players on our roster, and we secured a D2 bye for the 2012-2013 season. In July 2012, 13 of those 14 players signed together on a team with Sting. Completely different club and completely different coach. The D2 bye went with us to Sting. When we registered with LHGCL, we simply supplied them with our July 2012 NTSSA roster, and a copy of our April 1, 2012 NTSSA roster showing all of the common player names. Done deal.


p.s. GoinToGoal - I sent you a PM about your situation... go check it out.

gopher is correct - need 100% to move per North Texas.

You can keep the bye with 75% signing to a new team in July. (Boys Classic, if move is before end of calendar year, team keeps the bye no matter what.)

Good luck getting the last 10%. This is the time that the last player on the bench or the player that was bad-mouthed/abused by the rest of the team gets her revenge. You also get trapped by the parent that wants her kid on Wicked Cool FC (to borrow the example) or is aligned with the coach.

why not request a new coach? it sounds like a coach issue and if everyone is on board with that..stay with club and get a new coach. Maybe this will be best thing until end of season. Then go move on to a new home. How does this sound and why isn't this an option?

flippinA wrote:why not request a new coach? it sounds like a coach issue and if everyone is on board with that..stay with club and get a new coach. Maybe this will be best thing until end of season. Then go move on to a new home. How does this sound and why isn't this an option?

We have a couple of families that have been on team(s) in the past that went to DOC requesting coaching change. At the end of the season the new coach told the players who's parents made the request that the club had no place for them the next year. They are afraid their dd's would pay the price so they would prefer a clean break.

Right now we have a large majority that want to move and take the bye with us but come June with the usual June reshuffle the concensus is that we would have a hard time getting to 75%. If we can't move before Spring season starts a few have said they will walk instead of continue to play for this coach.

It's a bad situation and I am just trying to find a solution that helps a really good group of kids

a couple of families have been wanted to bail on a coach mid-season and tried it, huh?

if a woman has been divorced once, maybe she can point a finger. if a woman has been divorced 3 times, maybe she should point a thumb.

don't know a single thing about this case, but it can't always be the coach's fault, can it?

GoinToGoal wrote:

flippinA wrote:why not request a new coach? it sounds like a coach issue and if everyone is on board with that..stay with club and get a new coach. Maybe this will be best thing until end of season. Then go move on to a new home. How does this sound and why isn't this an option?

We have a couple of families that have been on team(s) in the past that went to DOC requesting coaching change. At the end of the season the new coach told the players who's parents made the request that the club had no place for them the next year. They are afraid their dd's would pay the price so they would prefer a clean break.

Right now we have a large majority that want to move and take the bye with us but come June with the usual June reshuffle the concensus is that we would have a hard time getting to 75%. If we can't move before Spring season starts a few have said they will walk instead of continue to play for this coach.

It's a bad situation and I am just trying to find a solution that helps a really good group of kids

O.K. With the extra tidbits you supplied here, I understand your situation a little better and realize why you want to make the move before April 1st.

However, keep in mind that unless your name change is done in a manner that makes you an "independent" team as of April 1st, that you are simply giving control of your bye from one club to another. There's nothing (other than the word of the new DOC and/or new Coach) that would prevent the new club/coach from doing a bunch of housecleaning on the roster come June.

All of your strength and leverage lie in that 75% number. If you have a very close/strong core of families that are >75% of the current roster, and they feel that keeping your group of girls together is in the best interest of each and every one of their DD's, then you have a chance.

Otherwise, sorry to say, but your team will likely not exist in anything resembling it's current form come next July.

My DD's team went through a similar process last year, albeit after April 1st, which changes the dynamics of the situation quite a bit, and makes things easier in several ways. Our team made it through intact and kept our bye moving forward, so it can be done, but it is FAR from an easy thing to accomplish. It takes a close knit group of families who trust in each other to collectively look out for their kids' best interests.

twotone wrote:a couple of families have been wanted to bail on a coach mid-season and tried it, huh?

if a woman has been divorced once, maybe she can point a finger. if a woman has been divorced 3 times, maybe she should point a thumb.

don't know a single thing about this case, but it can't always be the coach's fault, can it?

I understand what you are saying but the families I mentioned were not the one's who asked for the previous coaching change. They were just part of the team and witnessed the aftermath. I cannot speak to that situation and can only judge this coach on my 1st hand experience and can assure you if you found yourself in this same situation you would probably want out as well. I have been involved in NTX soccer for over 2 decades and have never seen anything like what we find ourselves in.

GoinToGoal wrote:

flippinA wrote:why not request a new coach? it sounds like a coach issue and if everyone is on board with that..stay with club and get a new coach. Maybe this will be best thing until end of season. Then go move on to a new home. How does this sound and why isn't this an option?

We have a couple of families that have been on team(s) in the past that went to DOC requesting coaching change. At the end of the season the new coach told the players who's parents made the request that the club had no place for them the next year. They are afraid their dd's would pay the price so they would prefer a clean break.

Right now we have a large majority that want to move and take the bye with us but come June with the usual June reshuffle the concensus is that we would have a hard time getting to 75%. If we can't move before Spring season starts a few have said they will walk instead of continue to play for this coach.
It's a bad situation and I am just trying to find a solution that helps a really good group of kids

Not sure that I understand how June reshuffling would impact your ability to get to 75% for purposes of taking the bye to a new club. The 75% threshold is based upon the roster as it stands on April 1st, so June changes are irrelevant for purposes of determining control of the bye.

oldboot wrote:

GoinToGoal wrote:

flippinA wrote:why not request a new coach? it sounds like a coach issue and if everyone is on board with that..stay with club and get a new coach. Maybe this will be best thing until end of season. Then go move on to a new home. How does this sound and why isn't this an option?

We have a couple of families that have been on team(s) in the past that went to DOC requesting coaching change. At the end of the season the new coach told the players who's parents made the request that the club had no place for them the next year. They are afraid their dd's would pay the price so they would prefer a clean break.

Right now we have a large majority that want to move and take the bye with us but come June with the usual June reshuffle the concensus is that we would have a hard time getting to 75%. If we can't move before Spring season starts a few have said they will walk instead of continue to play for this coach.
It's a bad situation and I am just trying to find a solution that helps a really good group of kids

Not sure that I understand how June reshuffling would impact your ability to get to 75% for purposes of taking the bye to a new club. The 75% threshold is based upon the roster as it stands on April 1st, so June changes are irrelevant for purposes of determining control of the bye.

Right now we have the 75% minimum. In June it always gets dicey as players get recruited to other teams, retire, or decide for whatever reason to seek other opportunities. The team has a good core that would like to stay together but those 10-12 will not get us to 75% in the Spring.

So you've provided clear feedback to the club and coach and they have resisted making all changes? You need to make sure that the concerns your team has was clearly stated to the club, otherwise you’re the ones that are in the wrong here.

With that said… A stance that's widely publicized on this board by many people is that because you pay the club and coach that they are employed by your group. Eventhough they are in a position of authority, they work for your group, you do not work for them. Maybe it's time to show club and team leadership who is really in charge of the situation.

Have you thought about having a "sick out" to send a message? That could definitely force a change and you don't need 100% of the roster to do that. It sounds like 90% of your roster is basically unionized already. The coach and club may realize their imagined control of the situation isn't too real when they appear on the field with only 2 or 3 kids there for an 11v11 game. (It would also help you know, without any doubt, what percentage of families are REALLY on board with you in this move.)

if you have 90% and you want to stay together then the ball is in your court. You need to speak with the lone holdout and find out what their concern is and also let them know they are the lone parent that is preventing the wishes of the team. If you have to stick it out for the rest of the season staying together gives you alot more leverage as players. Having a bye that you can bring with you can really help as you try to get the coach you want

bigtex75081 wrote:So you've provided clear feedback to the club and coach and they have resisted making all changes? You need to make sure that the concerns your team has was clearly stated to the club, otherwise you’re the ones that are in the wrong here.

With that said… A stance that's widely publicized on this board by many people is that because you pay the club and coach that they are employed by your group. Eventhough they are in a position of authority, they work for your group, you do not work for them. Maybe it's time to show club and team leadership who is really in charge of the situation.

Have you thought about having a "sick out" to send a message? That could definitely force a change and you don't need 100% of the roster to do that. It sounds like 90% of your roster is basically unionized already. The coach and club may realize their imagined control of the situation isn't too real when they appear on the field with only 2 or 3 kids there for an 11v11 game. (It would also help you know, without any doubt, what percentage of families are REALLY on board with you in this move.)

Have a parent who has approached the coach and explained that a large number of players and parents are upset (in some cases extremely so) and ask that coach have a parent meeting to try and salvage the situation. Coach refused and had an I don't care attitude. But no, we have not gone to the DOC, yet. As mentioned earlier have some parents who were on a team before that tried that and witnessed a vengeful response from the club so they are hesitant to take that step.

Whether we are right in our approach was not the original question. I can appreciate that everyone will have an opinion on this but to fully grasp the issues we are having would require that I list them. Such a list would almost immediatly identify the team, club, and coach thus exposing our DD's to potential retaliation from said club and coach. Really do not want to escalate the tensions, only want to help get the girls to a better enviornment, hopefully.

My dd has options, 1 or 2 of which would be better for her career, but she love's the girls on the team and would prefer to stay with them. As a result I am now in the position of trying to find a solution. Not sure if I ended up here because the parents have faith in me or because I am the only one stupid enough to put my head and my dd's head, on the chopping block.

Had not thought of the "sick out" option. Might have possibilities but might also backfire. If the team was U-11 or U-12 it might be a better option but as the team is older I'm not sure what kind of stigma this could hang on the girls.