Fundemental Soccer

Lefty wrote:

Busby Babes wrote:The mental aspect of the game is what makes a special player, great. Vision, creativity, all come from the mental side. Pirlo and Xavi are two players that come to mind..You can teach and learn skills until you are blue in the face, but in the end, if you lack the mental side, you won't ever reach the full potential. Joe Cole is a perfect example of being a technically sound player, absolute fantastic skills, but average overall. How many kids are truly being taught the game? How many kids are being taught intricacies of his/her position? The "must win" mentality of US soccer is what continues to damper progression to the top..

Could it be that most of the coaches we have here in NTX never had the 'mental side' of the game which makes it impossible for them to teach what they do not know.

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That is precisely one of the biggest issues. Most club managers are expected to win now, and many simply do not have a firm grasp on how exactly to develop the mental side, because they don't teach the area's in which harness that development.
There is a reason why the youth level in The Netherlands, Germany, England, Italy, Spain, etc.. are so far ahead. They are being taught the mental side at an early age, and learning positions and how to read the game at an early age. Rinus Michels,Joachim Low, Berti Vogts and many other great managers have talked about it's importance.

Busby Babes wrote:

pitchdweller wrote:

Busby Babes wrote:

pitchdweller wrote:I think Messi would be the best player in Premier as well. It is not that his first touch is the best the game has ever seen I agree. But his ability to know what he is doing with the ball as it approaches is far and away the best in the game currently. He hardly ever receives the ball and makes a decision. He reads the game and sees opportunities better than anyone since Zidane.

Messi would get beat up in the Premier League from the physicality of it, and his length of time to excel at the height he has would be diminished. It's already starting to take its toll on Aguero.

That is the beauty of football. The physical players from Premier would be negated by the ball movement in La Liga and why they struggle with the fast pace of the South American nations. Brasil struggled with France during their World Cup Final by France's ability to control the pace of the game negating their strength. Britian has far and away some of the best talent in the world but in world competition they negate the strengths of the English in match play by changing the way the game is played.

Two different views, but some accuracies here. Messi simply would not be the player he is at Barca, were he to be a Premier League player, bottom line.

Agree but does that not apply for most players if they move from a team in a league that plays one style to a different style?

Leads to an question here locally if PPL and APL are not missing a competitive opportunity to differentiate from LHGCL by establishing, emphasizing and encouraging a different style of play than LHGCL?

In the end the best players could all migrate to the ECNL teams, but the style and development paths could be different for different types of players.

Lefty wrote:

Busby Babes wrote:

pitchdweller wrote:

Busby Babes wrote:

pitchdweller wrote:I think Messi would be the best player in Premier as well. It is not that his first touch is the best the game has ever seen I agree. But his ability to know what he is doing with the ball as it approaches is far and away the best in the game currently. He hardly ever receives the ball and makes a decision. He reads the game and sees opportunities better than anyone since Zidane.

Messi would get beat up in the Premier League from the physicality of it, and his length of time to excel at the height he has would be diminished. It's already starting to take its toll on Aguero.

That is the beauty of football. The physical players from Premier would be negated by the ball movement in La Liga and why they struggle with the fast pace of the South American nations. Brasil struggled with France during their World Cup Final by France's ability to control the pace of the game negating their strength. Britian has far and away some of the best talent in the world but in world competition they negate the strengths of the English in match play by changing the way the game is played.

Two different views, but some accuracies here. Messi simply would not be the player he is at Barca, were he to be a Premier League player, bottom line.

Agree but does that not apply for most players if they move from a team in a league that plays one style to a different style?

Leads to an question here locally if PPL and APL are not missing a competitive opportunity to differentiate from LHGCL by establishing, emphasizing and encouraging a different style of play than LHGCL?

In the end the best players could all migrate to the ECNL teams, but the style and development paths could be different for different types of players.

Has a little to do with style of play, but more to do with the players he is around. Messi is who he is, not only because of amazing talent, but the amazing talent that is around him. Xavi and Iniesta contribute largely to Messi's success. Xavi is the cog that makes the engine run for Barca. There is a reason why Messi has struggled for country, where he doesn't have that type of quality around him to enhance his abilities. Same would be in the Premier League, and he would be exposed to a lot more two-footed tackles etc. Of course he is a World Class player, but would not find the success of the softer La Liga..

Lefty wrote:

Busby Babes wrote:

pitchdweller wrote:

Busby Babes wrote:

pitchdweller wrote:I think Messi would be the best player in Premier as well. It is not that his first touch is the best the game has ever seen I agree. But his ability to know what he is doing with the ball as it approaches is far and away the best in the game currently. He hardly ever receives the ball and makes a decision. He reads the game and sees opportunities better than anyone since Zidane.

Messi would get beat up in the Premier League from the physicality of it, and his length of time to excel at the height he has would be diminished. It's already starting to take its toll on Aguero.

That is the beauty of football. The physical players from Premier would be negated by the ball movement in La Liga and why they struggle with the fast pace of the South American nations. Brasil struggled with France during their World Cup Final by France's ability to control the pace of the game negating their strength. Britian has far and away some of the best talent in the world but in world competition they negate the strengths of the English in match play by changing the way the game is played.

Two different views, but some accuracies here. Messi simply would not be the player he is at Barca, were he to be a Premier League player, bottom line.

Agree but does that not apply for most players if they move from a team in a league that plays one style to a different style?

Leads to an question here locally if PPL and APL are not missing a competitive opportunity to differentiate from LHGCL by establishing, emphasizing and encouraging a different style of play than LHGCL?

In the end the best players could all migrate to the ECNL teams, but the style and development paths could be different for different types of players.

I like that idea A LOT. A couple simple rule changes (i.e. "No Punting", "Ball must be dribbled across midfield", "8v8") could quickly allow PPL and APL to differentiate them and reinvent their niche. Suddenly PPL or APL could become more desirable for teams that want to accomplish certain things.

Side note: We, as a group, really need to stop constantly comparing the kids of NTX to Messi. Messi is an exception, not the standard. Messi is a once-in-a-generation type of player. We keep comparing our kids against him as if his level is the only viable target for EVERY kid in the neighborhood. Enough already! Do you expect every kid that touches a basketball to be the next Jordan?

I am a huge fan of Xavi as well. I think they complement each other much like a automoble motor and transmission. Not sure either would be as successful without the other. I think the youth program at Barca may have more to do with the success than anything any of us are considering.

pitchdweller wrote:I am a huge fan of Xavi as well. I think they complement each other much like a automoble motor and transmission. Not sure either would be as successful without the other. I think the youth program at Barca may have more to do with the success than anything any of us are considering.

Take Messi out of the squad, you lose arguably the best player in the game, but Barca could scrape by and nab a victory against most opponents. Conversly, take Xavi out, and the midfield loses its shape and organization, and key creator. Xavi makes Barca tick.

Seems you have some foresight into the game. It's absolutely amazing how many managers at different levels in the US can't grasp a simple example such as this pertaining to Xavi, and get tunnel-visoned into a flashy, unbelievable player like Messi, but overlook the team concept behind his greatness.  It's what separates the really elite managers.  The one's that have this vital understanding, and can translate it to all levels of play, especially to youth.

Fantastic player, but look deeper, better options on the table.

Oh, absolutely..  When I think of attacking midfielders, or playmakers,  Zidane is up there amongst the best.  I would, however, prefer di Stefano, Platini, Charlton, or Didi..All of whom played a playmaking role at one time or another.

A couple of comments
1). You might post the dvds you think are good for others to share

2). I agree with the OP on what he sees. What is even more eye opening is what you learn in getting your national licenses. You can see the overall approach for US Youth Soccer and how kids are supposed to be coached. I have yet to observer a single academy or select practice where the coach utilizes the format recommended. US Youth Soccer spends a ton of time on how to nurture and develop young players. The coaches seem to do enough to pass their licenses then throw out what they have learned because they know more.

A few examples of recommended practices / lesson plans
http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/players/LessonPlans/
http://www.soccerindiana.org/education/lessonplans.aspx
http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/assets/1/15/2012_coaching_manual_for_web.pdf
http://www.kysoccer.net/coaching/lessonplans.aspx

If you dig into the material, when you get your licenses you have to demonstrate those skills. So I'm sure most club coaches know the fundamentals, they just aren't adept at teaching them to 18 kids at the same time or whatever roster size.

I see that as another fundamental flaw in Club Soccer. Too many kids per coach. If you have 18 young players, you are better off with 3 coaches working in stations. Most clubs I see have 1 coach trying to teach 15 to 20 kids at the same time. And you know how kids are, there is always 1 or 2 disrupting the whole thing.

Well my 2 cents for today

Yes good point....I got a few videos but the ones I was primarily thinking about was Blast the Ball and Soccer U videos. Also I have seen a lot of discussion on soccer moves and although that is covered on the videos - I was primarily speaking of more basic skills like how to properly trap , dribble or understanding the weight of your touches (a basis for understanding good first touches as has been discussed here.). Also, I was thinking about in depth teaching of these for younger ages. I do not expect a coach to work miracles in the 3 or so hours he has with them each week, but i would have liked to have seen in depth teaching of core skills- and then of course it is up to the kids/parents to reinforce/practice this at home. My thought is I could not have taught them, because i barely played soccer growing up- so you don't know what you don't know and I would think there are a lot of parents with similar backgrounds. If it were Football/Baseball it would not be as big of an issue as I can work with my kid on the fundamentals since I know them. I guess I should have just gotten the videos earlier, but again I assumed the basics were being covered. Anyway good thoughts - I think maybe as some has said it is the pressure placed on coaches by parents to win now (u7-u10)- then shame on us, because it seems to me it will eventually catch-up with those players. Just my thoughts.