$ question

Xara wrote:

Lefty wrote:

Xara wrote:

Lefty wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:

Lefty wrote:

I do find it interesting that you refer to the people who have enough money that the cost is an incidental expense morons and idiots.

The people that willingly pay whatever they’re told, whether it’s an incidental expense to them or not, are hurting the rest of us. Those people that hand over the blank checks aren’t showing any fiscal responsibility. They’re not valiant or glorious; they are the ones that are expanding what the market will bear. They are the ones that our allowing the clubs to expand on our thresholds for pain.

How would you refer to them as, “Our Fiscal Champions”?

So you want to be the judge of how other people spend their money?

If someone decides that $2K, $5k or $8k on their kids soccer is a good value for what they get, who are you to say they are wrong?

That's where I come in.

They are wrong.

Everyone makes judgements about what other people do. If you choose to spend loads of money on a child's sport (especially $5,000 plus) and your daughter is just an average player, you're not only wrong; you're a fool. You're paying for a Porsche but getting a Kia.

Really? I'm missing something.

They may be wrong in your opinion, and we all know the saying about opinions, but what power do you have to stop anyone from spending $5,000 or more a year on their DD's sports regardless of how bad or good their kid may be, if that is what they want to do?

Power to stop anyone? Where did you get that from anything I posted? In fact, I laugh at the foolish decisions of others in regard to what is an over-hyped child's pasttime. Why would I want to stop anyone when their poor decisions are so entertaining?

The punchline is that the coaches, clubs, and leagues are laughing much harder than I ever could. All the way to the bank.

You are the one that said 'That's where I come in'. Just wondered what you were going to do about it?

I agree with your last sentence, which is why I said do what makes sense for your DD and family given your particular situation.

Lefty wrote:

Xara wrote:

Lefty wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:

Lefty wrote:

I do find it interesting that you refer to the people who have enough money that the cost is an incidental expense morons and idiots.

The people that willingly pay whatever they’re told, whether it’s an incidental expense to them or not, are hurting the rest of us. Those people that hand over the blank checks aren’t showing any fiscal responsibility. They’re not valiant or glorious; they are the ones that are expanding what the market will bear. They are the ones that our allowing the clubs to expand on our thresholds for pain.

How would you refer to them as, “Our Fiscal Champions”?

So you want to be the judge of how other people spend their money?

If someone decides that $2K, $5k or $8k on their kids soccer is a good value for what they get, who are you to say they are wrong?

That's where I come in.

They are wrong.

Everyone makes judgements about what other people do. If you choose to spend loads of money on a child's sport (especially $5,000 plus) and your daughter is just an average player, you're not only wrong; you're a fool. You're paying for a Porsche but getting a Kia.

Really? I'm missing something.

They may be wrong in your opinion, and we all know the saying about opinions, but what power do you have to stop anyone from spending $5,000 or more a year on their DD's sports regardless of how bad or good their kid may be, if that is what they want to do?

Xara’s example of paying for a Porsche but getting a Kia isn’t a bad one.

Let’s say you decide you want to buy a Kia. You have $85,000 to spend on a new car. But for some reason, instead of just spending $20,000 on that Kia, you give the dealer the full $85,000. Is that your choice? Definitely and nobody can or should stop you. But what happens if lots more people insist on spending $85,000 on that same type of Kia. After a while, what do you think is going to happen to that price point nationwide? Wouldn’t you expect it to go up to $85,000 to meet the market’s expectations? Of course it will. The sellers aren’t going to miss a chance to make money off of foolish consumers.

But now what have you done to all the people that were willing to buy that same Kia for only $20,000? Now they can’t afford that car anymore. It’s not because of their actions though. It’s because of the actions of the people that chose not to be fiscally responsible and realize the potential results of their actions.

Xara sounds to me a little like sour grapes. Must of had a DD who did not play much in select. This is a choice. If your DD is on a team where she loves the girls and the coach and playing a game that she loves AND you can afford it---why not. You laugh at foolish decisions of others, you sound very bitter.

pitchafit wrote: Truth be told, why spend all this money to get your kid a scholarship? If we saved all the years of fees our dd's college would have already been paid for! OR..hmmm... cheaper to pay for tutors for an ACADEMIC scholarship...

My kids are young and not in discussion of ECNL, etc but talking to several other parents on other teams and friends that I have that are not involved in NTX Soccer, they too have made the same comment --- "saving $2-3K/year for college"

They announced the NLI via Dallas News ...
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/high-schools/signing-day/#Girls%20Soccer

... what I saw was 188 girls signed a NLI (not sure of how many received scholarships, etc) but signed last week. Out of those 188 young ladies, there were 70 different schools. If you guesstimate there are 20 players on each of those teams that is 1,400 young ladies (188 that signed -- or 13.43%). If you go off those numbers for 10-11 year olds currently playing/paying select that "says" only 2 girls from each team would sign a NLI when they are 18.

I have also heard that several have said that there are coaches that believe it would be best to play 7v7 or 8v8 all the way through U12, but the coaches are not going to cut their pay (16 players vs. 12 players) -- so those Clubs/Coaches will continue to charge these prices. And there will always be enough families that will pay the $3K or $5K, etc for their son or daughter to pay (SUPPLY vs. DEMAND).

Title IX makes it much easier for a girl to get a soccer scholarship, so the risk of the "wasted" money is not so high. For boys, it's usually doled out in 1/4 scholarship increments, and you are lucky to get even a 1/4 scholarship (football takes all the cash).

I have a BB that actually received some (a little) money for college, but that was not my motivation for paying for years of select soccer, up and through US academy. My intention was to let him take soccer as far as he wanted to, and hopefully keep him so busy that he didn't have time to get in trouble. Also, he was scared to death of flunking a drug test - mind you, he was not fearful of the wrath of Dad - he was scared of not being able to play. So, I considered it a sort of DARE program...whatever works, as far as I am concerned. He is now in his 20s, and I have not had to bail him out of jail, or send him to rehab....yet. (fingers crossed!!)

My point is that all parents are expecting a return on their "investment"...some foolishly think that it will pay for college (it might, but its rare), and others have different goals. Some like the social skills training...for instance - leadership training, how to build and function in a team envrionment, hard work and dedication toward a goal, fair play...etc. The list goes on. Competitive atletics can teach life skills beyond the physical.

If you sign a NLI, it means there is some scholarship funding. Keep in mind, however, that soccer is a headcount sport so that funding can range from "books only" to 100%, with anything in between.

I've known a ton of kids who signed a NLI for next to nothing. And quite a few more who received more academic money than soccer money. In the end, while scholarship money is nice, that should NOT be why the kid is in this thing. If it is, the great majority will be disappointed.

Each family has its own motivation for playing select. For some it may be to get a full ride to a top D1 college. These players will to be above avg. athletes, be at the top % of their age group in skills, and start on a top ECNL team. The other side are those who are playing for the teamwork, fun, etc... Most are somewhere in between. Obviously each player will have different ideas of what a 'good' soccer situation is. Unless your dd is on a top team then paying 4k a yr for soccer does not make it a very good financial investment. There are other benefits she will get out of it, but these can be learned without paying all the $. So if you can't afford the team you are with and you have to move to a cheaper team it's not the end of the world.

When the clubs took over the U10 and below and started charging the parents it made the expense really climb. Instead of 8 yrs of club soccer we now have what 15? Thats crazy.

sideline fan wrote:Xara sounds to me a little like sour grapes. Must of had a DD who did not play much in select. This is a choice. If your DD is on a team where she loves the girls and the coach and playing a game that she loves AND you can afford it---why not. You laugh at foolish decisions of others, you sound very bitter.

Of course I sound bitter. That's my M.O. But it doesn't make me incorrect.

I especially enjoy it when a poster is so overwhelmed with my responses that they sink to something asinine like "had a DD who did not play much in select". I'm guessing your next statement might be "I know you are, but what am I?"

Xara wrote:

Lefty wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:

Lefty wrote:

I do find it interesting that you refer to the people who have enough money that the cost is an incidental expense morons and idiots.

The people that willingly pay whatever they’re told, whether it’s an incidental expense to them or not, are hurting the rest of us. Those people that hand over the blank checks aren’t showing any fiscal responsibility. They’re not valiant or glorious; they are the ones that are expanding what the market will bear. They are the ones that our allowing the clubs to expand on our thresholds for pain.

How would you refer to them as, “Our Fiscal Champions”?

So you want to be the judge of how other people spend their money?

If someone decides that $2K, $5k or $8k on their kids soccer is a good value for what they get, who are you to say they are wrong?

That's where I come in.

They are wrong.

Everyone makes judgements about what other people do. If you choose to spend loads of money on a child's sport (especially $5,000 plus) and your daughter is just an average player, you're not only wrong; you're a fool. You're paying for a Porsche but getting a Kia.

I actually think about it more like Super Bowl tickets. Limited supply and what you are purchasing is the experience. To some people paying even face value is considered insanity, while to others $10,000 for the same seat to the same game is a great value.

bigtex75081 wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

go99 wrote:Okay I don't think those who can afford to pay should take the scholorships. Had a situation with my BB where I initially thought if there is a scholorship that we should get it. I talked to the coach and he said if you really need it then I will have to give it to you because your son is the best player on this team. But if he takes it these other 2 kids will not be able to play because they can't afford the fees. I realized then taking it doesn't make me smart, didn't mean I was gaming the system. It just meant I would be a liar, selfish, and an A$%hole. The reality was while the fees do have a sting to them I could manage it and to take it was to deny 2 kids an opportunity that I was lucky enough to be able to afford for my kid. Now at least 1 of the kids there may have been a question of affordability but just because his parents are teaching him that life is only about you and lying and cheating is okay as long as you get what you want doesn't mean I have too.

Well said!

@Go99 – Please don’t misunderstand this response because your story is an excellent example of generosity. If it hadn’t been for your generosity, those 2 other families may have been put into unfair situations. It was good of you to do that for them.

In this example though, you had a choice. You could have compelled that coach to take a step back and make hard decisions about costs. But you didn’t. You could have made the coach say to himself, “What’s more important here? Having a great team filled with capable kids OR collecting the parents’ money? How much does this extra money really matter to me?” But you didn’t. You gave that coach an out from making some hard budgeting decisions. Instead you made the hard budgeting decision on his behalf and just ponied up more money instead. Instead of making the coach/club make a tough choice, and checking to see if they were overcharging, you just tightened your family’s belt and wrote a check instead.

Please don’t be confused. I respect your kindness to those other families.

Actually FCD allows for a full scholorship on a full team. The coach split it and gave them each a half. This coach was following the rules as they were set forward. He was also a big proponent of FCD using its size to drive down cost. As he said 3K for soccer is rediculous. Everything over the 1 scholorship comes out of the coaches money not the club and while he may have been fine to take the cut. He was a just retired pro player with a full time job at the club and a wife who made more money than he ever did as a pro His wife may have been less inclined too. She may look at it as fair compensation for the time away from his family. If everybody wants to drive the price of soccer down go join an independant team. But taking a scholorship you don't have to have just denies another kid who needs it. Everybody in NTX can be a selfish bastard but it still doesn't make it right. its very easy to talk generosity or selflessness to our kids, its much harder to walk the walk. When it came to it I chose the truth.

That being said I think parents who are on scholorship should be more grateful to the team, the parents, and the coach who make that happen. It is not a badge of honor, it is not genius it is just charity plain and simple. Others have made your soccer possible now give back and do what you can. Field marshal duty, maybe help someone with a commute, whatever you can, hell maybe even a thanks guys I really appreciate it.

playing 11v11 is not the clubs or the coaches fault, it is ours. Playing to win instead of to learn is our fault. Paying 3k is also our fault. It is a buyers market and we get what we asked for. We responded to the big money super club (texans) with our checkbooks and everyone saw that this can be a big money venture. All I have to do is win and mom and dad from the burbs will flood my pockets with cash. It's not the top texan team that matters as far as money goes. It's the 20 other teams that are no better than many rec teams but hey they have the same jersey. It's not the ECNL team or the D1 team. Its the plano premier team that pays the exact same fees so they can say we are on club A. I have been able to pay my fee's to coaches I feel are deserved of it. I have also seen practices and coaches that are nothing more than snake oil salesmen with questionable coaches bio's. There are more of the later than the fore.

Oh for those that don't by in try starting a succesful academy team. If you make any noise at all watch as parents abandon you before select so they can play on big club A or B. Pay more money and get way less. Don't blame coaches, clubs, the problem is us

go99 wrote:playing 11v11 is not the clubs or the coaches fault, it is ours. Playing to win instead of to learn is our fault. Paying 3k is also our fault. It is a buyers market and we get what we asked for. We responded to the big money super club (texans) with our checkbooks and everyone saw that this can be a big money venture. All I have to do is win and mom and dad from the burbs will flood my pockets with cash. It's not the top texan team that matters as far as money goes. It's the 20 other teams that are no better than many rec teams but hey they have the same jersey. It's not the ECNL team or the D1 team. Its the plano premier team that pays the exact same fees so they can say we are on club A. I have been able to pay my fee's to coaches I feel are deserved of it. I have also seen practices and coaches that are nothing more than snake oil salesmen with questionable coaches bio's. There are more of the later than the fore.

Oh for those that don't by in try starting a succesful academy team. If you make any noise at all watch as parents abandon you before select so they can play on big club A or B. Pay more money and get way less. Don't blame coaches, clubs, the problem is us

YEP!