Handling Quiz

A ball is played from approximately midfield into the top of the penalty area (the box). The ball travels through the air 30-35 yards never touching the ground. A defender standing in the penalty area plays the ball in the air (it never strikes the ground). The ball comes off the defenders foot and immediately hits the same defender's hand and the ball drops straight to the ground. What is the correct call? Why?

Gumby wrote:A ball is played from approximately midfield into the top of the penalty area (the box). The ball travels through the air 30-35 yards never touching the ground. A defender standing in the penalty area plays the ball in the air (it never strikes the ground). The ball comes off the defenders foot and immediately hits the same defender's hand and the ball drops straight to the ground. What is the correct call? Why?

The correct answer is "The opposite of whatever call was actually made."

Otherwise, I'm guessing you wouldn't be posting your little quiz on here...

If players arm was in a natural position and ball deflected I would say no handling however if the player extends the arm from the body or moves hand towards the ball then handling. I give a thumbs up for the use of the term handling annoys me when I ref and everyone yells hand ball. ref would have to decide if player played ball or if the ball hit the players hand

Got it gopher.....all calls are incorrect.....Anybody else?

Gumby wrote:Got it gopher.....all calls are incorrect.....Anybody else?

First... I was just having a little fun with you.

Second... I honestly don't remember the last time someone posted a question on here regarding a rule/call, where the OP was posting because the ref made the "correct" call and the OP just wanted to find out how many people on the forum knew that it was the correct call. If that's the case here, then I apologize for my cynicism and being jaded by spending too much time on here.

The correct answer is whatever Gumby thinks is the right one. The ref can call it whatever he/she wants but first they have to check with Gumby.

Gumby wrote:Got it gopher.....all calls are incorrect.....Anybody else?

I second ek's response

Referee wrote: The correct answer is whatever Gumby thinks is the right one. The ref can call it whatever he/she wants but first they have to check with Gumby.

Ok, I'll put you down as "don't know".

It's only a hand ball if all the attacking team's parents are screaming "HAND BALL REF, HAND BALL!"

By rule, handling is a deliberate act foul. Ball striking the hand is not a foul in many cases, especially when kicked in close proximity to the hand/arm in question.

In this case, it sounds like perhaps "play on" could have been called but... there is always a fine line / grey zone when the arm is extended in a way that might be considered as unnatural (ie. making yourself wider to intentionally make it harder for the ball to get by you even if you did not make a move with the arm on the ball). Leaving your arm out wide when the ref feels you had enough time to get it out of the way will often result in a handling foul. Not every call is black and white. To complicate it, the ref's angle of view is always different than the view from the sideline, can be obstructed or partially obstructed, etc.

Depends if my DD's team is on offense or defense.

hombre wrote:By rule, handling is a deliberate act foul. Ball striking the hand is not a foul in many cases, especially when kicked in close proximity to the hand/arm in question.

In this case, it sounds like perhaps "play on" could have been called but... there is always a fine line / grey zone when the arm is extended in a way that might be considered as unnatural (ie. making yourself wider to intentionally make it harder for the ball to get by you even if you did not make a move with the arm on the ball). Leaving your arm out wide when the ref feels you had enough time to get it out of the way will often result in a handling foul. Not every call is black and white. To complicate it, the ref's angle of view is always different than the view from the sideline, can be obstructed or partially obstructed, etc.

"Deliberate", is the word I was looking for. Your first sentence is my understanding of the law.

There are a couple of circumstances here. You stated it was in the penalty area, so that makes a difference.

1. was it handling or ball playing hand? It sounds from your description to be the latter. I believe you...no defender intentionally handles the ball in the box..

2. if it is established as the latter, did the unintentional handling give the player an advantage? Was the ball going to continue toward goal after the mis-hit of the foot, and the handling dropped it at her feet instead? Was there an attacker chasing that may have had an opportunity to play the ball onto goal if the defenders hand hadn't changed the trajectory? In this case..a PK, but no card.

3. If there is no attacker nearby, and the trajectory of the ball after striking the hand did not give the defender an advantage (i.e. went to open space that an attacker (if present) had at least a 50/50 chance at it), then it would probably be a "play on" situation, as referees do not like to call PKs for unintentional things.

4. Lastly, if the ball played the hand in the box, and the attacker gained possesion then it's more or less an advantage call - no call.

10sDad wrote:There are a couple of circumstances here. You stated it was in the penalty area, so that makes a difference.

1. was it handling or ball playing hand? It sounds from your description to be the latter. I believe you...no defender intentionally handles the ball in the box..

2. if it is established as the latter, did the unintentional handling give the player an advantage? Was the ball going to continue toward goal after the mis-hit of the foot, and the handling dropped it at her feet instead? Was there an attacker chasing that may have had an opportunity to play the ball onto goal if the defenders hand hadn't changed the trajectory? In this case..a PK, but no card.

3. If there is no attacker nearby, and the trajectory of the ball after striking the hand did not give the defender an advantage (i.e. went to open space that an attacker (if present) had at least a 50/50 chance at it), then it would probably be a "play on" situation, as referees do not like to call PKs for unintentional things.

4. Lastly, if the ball played the hand in the box, and the attacker gained possesion then it's more or less an advantage call - no call.

It has always been my understanding that if your "point #1" was considered "ball played to hand", then it does not matter if it fell to an advantage situation for the defender (point #2, #3, #4)... i.e. no foul, no card, no pk... play on suckas. This has been my experience over the years both as a player (defender), and a coach. In the case of the initial question... long ball played forward, in the air, first time strike by defender, ball plays up onto hand/arm.... I say play on, no foul. Would take a heck of a lot of skill for a young girl to intentionally play a ball like that onto her hand and into an advantage position to kill off the attack.

Post n°13
Re: Handling Quiz
 by 10sDad Today at 3:31 pm
There are a couple of circumstances here. You stated it was in the penalty area, so that makes a difference.

1. was it handling or ball playing hand? It sounds from your description to be the latter. I believe you...no defender intentionally handles the ball in the box..

2. if it is established as the latter, did the unintentional handling give the player an advantage? Was the ball going to continue toward goal after the mis-hit of the foot, and the handling dropped it at her feet instead? Was there an attacker chasing that may have had an opportunity to play the ball onto goal if the defenders hand hadn't changed the trajectory? In this case..a PK, but no card. Dad, your second point illustrates my point. There are two requirements for handling to be called. #1 did the ball hit the player anywhere from the uppermost part of the arm to the finger tips. #2. Was it deliberate. By definition, there is no such thing as "unintentional handling". In order for handling to be handling, it must be determined as deliberate. If it is unimtentional it is NOT handling, if it is deliberate it IS handling. Advantage etc. are not part of the consideration.

Actually if the handling offense is not immediately clear, advantage is used as a standard of judgement to determine if there was a violation.

Gumby wrote:Post n°13
Re: Handling Quiz
 by 10sDad Today at 3:31 pm
There are a couple of circumstances here. You stated it was in the penalty area, so that makes a difference.

1. was it handling or ball playing hand? It sounds from your description to be the latter. I believe you...no defender intentionally handles the ball in the box..

2. if it is established as the latter, did the unintentional handling give the player an advantage? Was the ball going to continue toward goal after the mis-hit of the foot, and the handling dropped it at her feet instead? Was there an attacker chasing that may have had an opportunity to play the ball onto goal if the defenders hand hadn't changed the trajectory? In this case..a PK, but no card. Dad, your second point illustrates my point. There are two requirements for handling to be called. #1 did the ball hit the player anywhere from the uppermost part of the arm to the finger tips. #2. Was it deliberate. By definition, there is no such thing as "unintentional handling". In order for handling to be handling, it must be determined as deliberate. If it is unimtentional it is NOT handling, if it is deliberate it IS handling. Advantage etc. are not part of the consideration.

Once the ball hits the hand/arm, the referee has to make a decision as to whether or not it was intentional AND if it gave an unfair advantage to the offending player. Intentional handling almost always gives that advantage, and if done in the box results in a card (google Suarez World Cup Handball). But - unintentional can also result in a deflection off target, an unfair advantage in gaining possession, etc.

Any touch to the ball with the arm/hand is illegal, intentional or not. But in a ball to hand situation, it is up to the referees judgement. If no advantage is gained, then the referee will usually not make the call.

Gumby -
From the sound of your posts and this thread, it appears as though a PK was awarded to the team you were playing against for an unintentional handball in the box. The way you described it, it seems as though the player "unintentionally" gained advantage in that situation, as the ball dropped to her feet. If I were the ref, I would have awarded the PK as well.

Now...if the referee issued a card for the offense, then I would be a bit miffed. But the call sounds correct. Unfortunate, but correct. You are correct that at this age, the little ones lack the intent to break or "bend" the rules. She obviously attempted to stop and control what appears to be a soundly struck ball, which at this age is very, very difficult, and a minor mis-alignment of the foot resulted in an unintentional bounce up that struck her arm...on the field it would have been a free kick, which we see everyday at this age...in the box means a PK. I know the feeling, and I empathize. I hate to win games that way (or own goals), and even more so - I hate to lose games that way...and it won't be the last time.

10sDad wrote:Gumby -
From the sound of your posts and this thread, it appears as though a PK was awarded to the team you were playing against for an unintentional handball in the box. The way you described it, it seems as though the player "unintentionally" gained advantage in that situation, as the ball dropped to her feet. If I were the ref, I would have awarded the PK as well.

Now...if the referee issued a card for the offense, then I would be a bit miffed. But the call sounds correct. Unfortunate, but correct. You are correct that at this age, the little ones lack the intent to break or "bend" the rules. She obviously attempted to stop and control what appears to be a soundly struck ball, which at this age is very, very difficult, and a minor mis-alignment of the foot resulted in an unintentional bounce up that struck her arm...on the field it would have been a free kick, which we see everyday at this age...in the box means a PK. I know the feeling, and I empathize. I hate to win games that way (or own goals), and even more so - I hate to lose games that way...and it won't be the last time.

Where isunintentional handling discussed in the laws of the game? I can't find it

Gumby wrote:

10sDad wrote:Gumby -
From the sound of your posts and this thread, it appears as though a PK was awarded to the team you were playing against for an unintentional handball in the box. The way you described it, it seems as though the player "unintentionally" gained advantage in that situation, as the ball dropped to her feet. If I were the ref, I would have awarded the PK as well.

Now...if the referee issued a card for the offense, then I would be a bit miffed. But the call sounds correct. Unfortunate, but correct. You are correct that at this age, the little ones lack the intent to break or "bend" the rules. She obviously attempted to stop and control what appears to be a soundly struck ball, which at this age is very, very difficult, and a minor mis-alignment of the foot resulted in an unintentional bounce up that struck her arm...on the field it would have been a free kick, which we see everyday at this age...in the box means a PK. I know the feeling, and I empathize. I hate to win games that way (or own goals), and even more so - I hate to lose games that way...and it won't be the last time.

Where isunintentional handling discussed in the laws of the game? I can't find it

http://www.wvsoccer.net/cgi-bin/artman/publish/article_434.shtml

Thanks Zen. I read it twice. It says "deliberate, natural position, time of reaction, attempt to direct, accidental". Also mentions advantage in terms of attempt tb direct. I still come back to deliberate or not?

Bottom line: It’s an individual interpretation at the time of the play.

Did anyone see the PK in the U-20 championship games?
Was that a PK? Referee said it was however I would not have called that as a PK.

Whats the thought on this goal from last February when AC Milan played Barcelona...? Did the ref let it "play on" because handling was ruled unintentional, or did he flat miss the call....?

Milan take shot on goal.... Milan player (in the box) lifts hands up in the air to attempt to avoid low shot whizzing by his chest. (i.e. not a deliberate play to the ball) Ball hits extended arm and deflects right down to the ground at Boateng's feet.. goal! Referee was right in position and saw the play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGIENJaySPc

Slakemoth wrote:Whats the thought on this goal from last February when AC Milan played Barcelona...? Did the ref let it "play on" because handling was ruled unintentional, or did he flat miss the call....?

Milan take shot on goal.... Milan player (in the box) lifts hands up in the air to attempt to avoid low shot whizzing by his chest. (i.e. not a deliberate play to the ball) Ball hits extended arm and deflects right down to the ground at Boateng's feet.. goal! Referee was right in position and saw the play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGIENJaySPc

I would have made a different call, but, then, I'm a Barcelona fan.

In the end no matter how much we all table talk the call (and it has been enjoyable to read) The Ref is the law of the game. bad calls, good calls, missed calls, she/he is the law of the game.