Re: What is the benefit??

by Gunner9 12/06/13, 08:36 am

Actually if they sign a NLI, they received some remuneration. Although I will agree with you many times it is not much.

by NTXSjunkie 12/06/13, 08:43 am

upper95 wrote:
NTXSjunkie wrote:One thing I'll say is that you can get to college and play no matter what you do. Having played college soccer, the player and their family will have to do a lot of work to get them there.

Benefits of playing for an independent team:
- Lower Costs
- Good Camaraderie
- Players' spot is generally guaranteed due to lower numbers wanting to tryout

Drawbacks of an Independent team:
- Usually the coach is a dad/mom that does not have proper soccer knowledge
- Level of play may not be what your player needs
- Exposure will not be as good, because there is not reputation that accompanies the team name
- Practice location may change month to month due to rules and regulations the city puts on locations

The thing with clubs is that they generally have all the hard work done for people. They've got a licensed coach in there that knows soccer and knows how to make players better. They've got the practice location tied down so you can count on practices always being in the same location. The clubs will also have the proper equipment to train players, and may even have specialized training sessions for players to take part in. I know when I played, my club (in addition to the practices with the team) had Goalkeeper Training, Speed and Agility Training, Shooting and Finishing Training, and Skills Training.

Those sessions there can't generally be provided by an independent coach. The clubs will generally have some sort of college exposure program and will generally have built up college coaching connections that an independent club coach will not have.

Sure club soccer is expensive (trust me I paid for it myself once I was old enough to get a job), but I think if your ultimate goal is to get to college to play, then your best option is to join a club.

Reason for edit: Grammar

All valid points, except remember that the original question was whether to take a U16 rec team to competitive, independent or club. Poster did not say whether the team was promoting to U16 or U17. At this point, the players who want to play in college and are arguably capable of getting there should separate and go to an established competitive team(s) at a level where they will play, then they can take advantage of the amenities if available.

Yes, I know what the question was. I was merely pointing out the benefits and drawbacks of doing independent.

The big thing to note on whether to take the whole team to the Select level would be these things:

1. How big is the margin of victory in the recreational games?

If it's by 5-10 goals, don't take the team to the select level.
Is it by 20-30+ goals? If so I would say take the team to the select level.

2. Who scores the goals?

Is it one or two players? If so you probably don't want to take the team to the select level. As the other players wont be able to hang.
If every one on the team scores goals during the game from DIFFERENT POSITIONS... not just when they are attackers, then you may consider taking the team to the select level.

3. How does the defense perform?

Do they actually make stops, or do they do almost nothing because the team's attack is so strong? If they do well just because no one can stop you scoring... I wouldn't take the whole team to the select level.
If the defense works well, sliding across the field and you don't play the sweeper/stopper system, then you may want to consider taking the whole team to the select level.

4. How does the team attack?

If it's just kick and rush... don't take the team to the select level. Despite the majority of teams in the NTX area using this method of attack, every team does need a certain level of ability to possess the ball. Plus, most of the teams are going to have overall better athletes.
If the team possess the ball and waits to attack till they see a gap in the other teams defense, then it might be worth it to take the team to the select level.

That's what you need to look at if you're going to consider taking the whole team. I would find it very hard that a recreational team would be able to do all of choice #2 to each question. Not because they aren't able to, but because if there is a whole U16 team out there in the recreational divisions in the NTX area that went under the radar that long that could do all of that... that would be pretty amazing in itself.

by Uncle Numanga 12/06/13, 08:49 am

JustaSport wrote:
fun soccer wrote: If your player, Manager and Coach put in a little work there is plenty of money to go around for college soccer. The first mistake that most people make is looking at a school because of their soccer program. We first find schools that teach what the player wants to study, Then narrow it down to location the player is interested in. Then we look and concentrate on those soccer programs. It has worked out well for us. We have players that play at all different levels in college from Jr College to NCAA Division 2. I always say that picking a college because of thier soccer program is the second dumbest reason to pick a school... That's why they are called Student Athletes...NOT Athlete Students. Good luck to everyone in finding the right fit you your player.

Scott

I have to ask what "plenty of money" means in this context. Every single piece of information that is available indicates statistically that there is very, very little money for girls' soccer. If you mean that there are some creative ways to get the money, I would agree. But unless the player is at the very top of the game, she's in for athletic chump-change in the context of overall college costs. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your emphasis on getting the player in the right school and simply playing the game because she enjoys it. For those who play it, soccer in college is far more likely to be a pastime than money source.

Justa: I have known you for a long time but your posts seem to indicate that you feel there is no reason for most girls to pursue a college scholarship. While very few players get a full ride, there is still money out there to be split among players. After all, isn't some chump-change better than no chump-change? I know that everyone on my dd's team got some scholarship to play in college. My dd is going to her dream school and the rest seem to be happy with their choice.

The other thing that in the statistics you mention is that they include all soccer players from rec to select. If you take out the 10's of thousands that play rec, I am sure those same statistics would reveal themselves quite differently. The girl on the U18 Ladybugs should not be considered in any statistical analysis.

by NTXSjunkie 12/06/13, 08:52 am

Gunner9 wrote:Actually if they sign a NLI, they received some remuneration. Although I will agree with you many times it is not much.

Actually, this is false.

Many teams will oversign athletes. Just look at the SEC in football. They sign more players than they have money for promising that they will get money, in hopes that players that already have scholarship money will leave to free up "cap room" in a sense.

All your National Letter of Intent says is that you as a player promise to only play ___(insert sport)___ for ___(insert school name)____. They have it written in there, in tricky wording and stuff, that they only have to give you money if they have it to give you. Colleges are very tricky when it comes to this. they promise the athlete the world, and unless you're an American Football player, or the next Pele... they often don't deliver at all. Had a friend that was promised a full ride to a University in soccer, and when he got there all they had to give him was $500... basically one book.

by Gunner9 12/06/13, 09:10 am

The NLI is a binding legal document.

by NTXSjunkie 12/06/13, 09:47 am

Gunner9 wrote:The NLI is a binding legal document.

Yes it is... for YOU to play for them and only them.

They have it worded in there to where they can get out of paying you if they want to. These colleges and universities have it set up. They use their law school graduates to figure out how to make loop holes for them to get out of anything they can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversigning

I know it's wikipedia, but it's pretty reliable.

"NCAA rules permit oversigning up to 28 NLI, though some college football fans view oversigning as unethical, arguing that it requires schools and coaches to be dishonest with young adult and adolescent recruits by promising them a roster spot and scholarship only to pull it before the person graduates or even makes the team."

It says that football has received the most attention, but that it happens in all sports.

by Guest 12/06/13, 11:40 am

That is deep shit!

by Moe 12/06/13, 01:12 pm

Even if your little girl has mad skills....."what's her GPA and what's her class rank" is more important to the coach.
The question now becomes not is she good enough to play college ball...is she smart enough to play college ball.
No coach is gonna take a chance on a girl that can't cut it in the classroom,college soccer is an equivalency sport.

by JustaSport 12/06/13, 02:31 pm

Uncle Numanga wrote:
JustaSport wrote:
fun soccer wrote: If your player, Manager and Coach put in a little work there is plenty of money to go around for college soccer. The first mistake that most people make is looking at a school because of their soccer program. We first find schools that teach what the player wants to study, Then narrow it down to location the player is interested in. Then we look and concentrate on those soccer programs. It has worked out well for us. We have players that play at all different levels in college from Jr College to NCAA Division 2. I always say that picking a college because of thier soccer program is the second dumbest reason to pick a school... That's why they are called Student Athletes...NOT Athlete Students. Good luck to everyone in finding the right fit you your player.

Scott

I have to ask what "plenty of money" means in this context. Every single piece of information that is available indicates statistically that there is very, very little money for girls' soccer. If you mean that there are some creative ways to get the money, I would agree. But unless the player is at the very top of the game, she's in for athletic chump-change in the context of overall college costs. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your emphasis on getting the player in the right school and simply playing the game because she enjoys it. For those who play it, soccer in college is far more likely to be a pastime than money source.

Justa: I have known you for a long time but your posts seem to indicate that you feel there is no reason for most girls to pursue a college scholarship. While very few players get a full ride, there is still money out there to be split among players. After all, isn't some chump-change better than no chump-change? I know that everyone on my dd's team got some scholarship to play in college. My dd is going to her dream school and the rest seem to be happy with their choice.

The other thing that in the statistics you mention is that they include all soccer players from rec to select. If you take out the 10's of thousands that play rec, I am sure those same statistics would reveal themselves quite differently. The girl on the U18 Ladybugs should not be considered in any statistical analysis.

Unc: I should clarify, then, that I think it's great for girls who genuinely want to pursue college soccer - scholarship or not - to do so. I love the sport and equally enjoy tales of players who can't get enough of it. But what's discussed on these boards is seldom about what the player wants to do; it almost always seems to be what the parent wants for his or her daughter. You know as well as I do just how many of these academy parents genuinely believe that their daughters are bound for greatness in soccer. And that is so seldom the case. A player like your own daughter who plays all her young life at the highest level and then has a spot waiting for her with a top D1 program (outstanding!!!) is the exception not the norm. The statistics fully support this statement. Most will get very little if anything for athletics in college... so they better be doing it out of love for the sport, right?

Regarding taking out the rec factor, I disagree with your statements in the last paragraph. How many truly rec players would you guess seek soccer scholarships in the first place? I've been involved in rec/PSA for many years and have never heard of even one! I believe it is almost entirely select players who make up the small percentages of those receiving such meager athletic aid on average. And for those that do receive it, it is ALMOST ALWAYS part of a package that includes academic scholarship money. In other words, these girls were qualified to receive much of what they got just based on their grades and SAT scores alone.

by fun soccer 12/06/13, 03:41 pm

JustaSport wrote:
fun soccer wrote: If your player, Manager and Coach put in a little work there is plenty of money to go around for college soccer. The first mistake that most people make is looking at a school because of their soccer program. We first find schools that teach what the player wants to study, Then narrow it down to location the player is interested in. Then we look and concentrate on those soccer programs. It has worked out well for us. We have players that play at all different levels in college from Jr College to NCAA Division 2. I always say that picking a college because of thier soccer program is the second dumbest reason to pick a school... That's why they are called Student Athletes...NOT Athlete Students. Good luck to everyone in finding the right fit you your player.

Scott

I have to ask what "plenty of money" means in this context. Every single piece of information that is available indicates statistically that there is very, very little money for girls' soccer. If you mean that there are some creative ways to get the money, I would agree. But unless the player is at the very top of the game, she's in for athletic chump-change in the context of overall college costs. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your emphasis on getting the player in the right school and simply playing the game because she enjoys it. For those who play it, soccer in college is far more likely to be a pastime than money source.

If you can get any money to go to the school that you are interested in then I say that's great. Lets be honest Full rides in Soccer are not that common, but 30-50% is common...That's nothing to look down on. I still say it is easier when the Player, manager and Coach are all helping out. Its the small things that can make a difference. like what questions to ask the coach at the school you are looking at. One of the first questions that the player should ask is if their soccer program is fully funded. If not the coaches will usually tell you how many scholarships they are allocated to give by the school and they can be broken up any way the coach sees fit. Academic scholarships are stackable with athletic scholarship, but there are some scholarships that are not stackable so be aware of that as well. I always push my players to do well in school and to take their SAT and ACT tests seriously because that is free money just waiting for them. sorry if I gave the impression that there is enough money for all to get full rides that wasn't at all what I meant

Scott

by Moe 12/06/13, 04:21 pm

Most only get to help 6 to 8 players a year..meaning of all the money they get it gets divied up over all the girls.
NCAA III typically don't have athletic money for soccer,private school is different.NAIA will get more money to give out and are about the same as the NCAA II schools.although smaller the are more costly per year

by Uncle Numanga 12/06/13, 05:55 pm

JustaSport wrote:
Uncle Numanga wrote:
JustaSport wrote:
fun soccer wrote: If your player, Manager and Coach put in a little work there is plenty of money to go around for college soccer. The first mistake that most people make is looking at a school because of their soccer program. We first find schools that teach what the player wants to study, Then narrow it down to location the player is interested in. Then we look and concentrate on those soccer programs. It has worked out well for us. We have players that play at all different levels in college from Jr College to NCAA Division 2. I always say that picking a college because of thier soccer program is the second dumbest reason to pick a school... That's why they are called Student Athletes...NOT Athlete Students. Good luck to everyone in finding the right fit you your player.

Scott

I have to ask what "plenty of money" means in this context. Every single piece of information that is available indicates statistically that there is very, very little money for girls' soccer. If you mean that there are some creative ways to get the money, I would agree. But unless the player is at the very top of the game, she's in for athletic chump-change in the context of overall college costs. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your emphasis on getting the player in the right school and simply playing the game because she enjoys it. For those who play it, soccer in college is far more likely to be a pastime than money source.

Justa: I have known you for a long time but your posts seem to indicate that you feel there is no reason for most girls to pursue a college scholarship. While very few players get a full ride, there is still money out there to be split among players. After all, isn't some chump-change better than no chump-change? I know that everyone on my dd's team got some scholarship to play in college. My dd is going to her dream school and the rest seem to be happy with their choice.

The other thing that in the statistics you mention is that they include all soccer players from rec to select. If you take out the 10's of thousands that play rec, I am sure those same statistics would reveal themselves quite differently. The girl on the U18 Ladybugs should not be considered in any statistical analysis.

Unc: I should clarify, then, that I think it's great for girls who genuinely want to pursue college soccer - scholarship or not - to do so. I love the sport and equally enjoy tales of players who can't get enough of it. But what's discussed on these boards is seldom about what the player wants to do; it almost always seems to be what the parent wants for his or her daughter. You know as well as I do just how many of these academy parents genuinely believe that their daughters are bound for greatness in soccer. And that is so seldom the case. A player like your own daughter who plays all her young life at the highest level and then has a spot waiting for her with a top D1 program (outstanding!!!) is the exception not the norm. The statistics fully support this statement. Most will get very little if anything for athletics in college... so they better be doing it out of love for the sport, right?

Regarding taking out the rec factor, I disagree with your statements in the last paragraph. How many truly rec players would you guess seek soccer scholarships in the first place? I've been involved in rec/PSA for many years and have never heard of even one! I believe it is almost entirely select players who make up the small percentages of those receiving such meager athletic aid on average. And for those that do receive it, it is ALMOST ALWAYS part of a package that includes academic scholarship money. In other words, these girls were qualified to receive much of what they got just based on their grades and SAT scores alone.

You're right, those rec girls do not actively seek college scholarships but I do believe that all of them are taken into consideration in the reports that you cited. The report compared how little money is going to High School players. Most, probably 80%, of the high school players have no desire to play past their senior year. You eliminate them and the study would have significant different results. What would be interesting is a study of ECNL or National League players. I have yet to see a comprehensive study on them.

Academic scholarships are the backbone of most college programs. I know that in my dd's signing class several are receiving significant academic money. As they have been admitted into the Honors College. The fact that they can play soccer is a bonus to the program. That is really the only way you can stretch the 14.5 scholarships and have a complete roster. As several have stated before, nail the SAT or ACT and the doors open up.

by fun soccer 13/06/13, 08:17 am

Moe wrote:Most only get to help 6 to 8 players a year..meaning of all the money they get it gets divied up over all the girls.
NCAA III typically don't have athletic money for soccer,private school is different.NAIA will get more money to give out and are about the same as the NCAA II schools.although smaller the are more costly per year

That's why you need to ask if the soccer program is fully funded ( this determines how many scholarships the coach has to give ) But I have found that if the school has 6-8 scholarships to work with they will usually split them up and help as many players as they can so with 6-8 scholarships they can usually help 12-16 players. The majority of college players are getting some money..of coarse some get a lot more than others. Finding the right school for the player is the most important thing. It takes some work and time but there is soccer money out there to be had.

Scott

by Moe 13/06/13, 08:59 am

If your kid is not afraid to leave home meaning the state, there are sooooo many schools looking for players. BUT they are not going to come looking for her,you as in the PARENT are going to have to do the leg work.Not the club not the manager,you.
Trust me outside of texas and a few surrounding areas lake highlands girls classic league is unknown..join a recruiting site yes it costs money but doors open and you can communicate with coaches you would never have thought if before.

by Gunner9 13/06/13, 09:31 am

Moe wrote:
Trust me outside of texas and a few surrounding areas lake highlands girls classic league is unknown. .join a recruiting site yes it costs money but doors open and you can communicate with coaches you would never have thought if before.

Yes, he is correct. Please send your check to Gunner9@RecruitingScam.com

by Moe 13/06/13, 12:13 pm

Yeah...go with that.
Lemme know how the club finding a spot for her works out
The scanners have put me in touch with over 73 potential schools so far.
Info in the mail from said schools seems legit,unless Johns Hopkins is a hoax also.

by Gunner9 13/06/13, 12:35 pm

Moe wrote:Yeah...go with that.
Lemme know how the club finding a spot for her works out
The scanners have put me in touch with over 73 potential schools so far.
Info in the mail from said schools seems legit,unless Johns Hopkins is a hoax also.

Johns Hopkins is far from a hoax. It's an excellent school. In fact, one of the kids my eldest dd played with went there and is now a pediatric resident. It's also a D3 program so any assistance you will get from them will be academic only.

Your first post on this string had inaccuracies, as did your second. For about 8 years, I helped my dd's and their clubmates find homes in college soccer. None of them ever paid anyone to "help" them. Nor did they sit back and rely on the club to do the work. They did the work themselves.

Hey, if it works for you, great. Let us all know how it turns out. I would still tell anyone that has not gone through it not to waste your money on a recruiting site. They don't do a thing your kid can't do themselves and believe me, coaches prefer to hear from the kids.

by Moe 13/06/13, 01:20 pm

They hear from her..only thing they do for menus give me a site in which to show Intrest in a school,everything else is up to the girl.
Hopkins is DIII but has player assistance because it is a private.
She pushes a button on her end it lights up on the other end showing interest in the program.
After that they can look at her profile,validated game highlights,school transcripts etc.
The "recruiting" site merely gives the ability to connect with schools nobody has even heard of.
Like Becker college in Massachusetts they are looking for 2015 graduates with a GPA of over 3.7 to fill roster spots in the defense midfield and goal...I can tell you what the little tech school in west virginia is looking for in a prospective player and what they need now today as well as 2015... Spending a little iron to make it much easier is not a bad or stupid thing.I believe my girl will be in Indiana playing for a decent NAIA team and going thru Pre med on the process.
Help is a good thing

by fun soccer 13/06/13, 04:21 pm

Moe wrote:They hear from her..only thing they do for menus give me a site in which to show Intrest in a school,everything else is up to the girl.
Hopkins is DIII but has player assistance because it is a private.
She pushes a button on her end it lights up on the other end showing interest in the program.
After that they can look at her profile,validated game highlights,school transcripts etc.
The "recruiting" site merely gives the ability to connect with schools nobody has even heard of.
Like Becker college in Massachusetts they are looking for 2015 graduates with a GPA of over 3.7 to fill roster spots in the defense midfield and goal...I can tell you what the little tech school in west virginia is looking for in a prospective player and what they need now today as well as 2015... Spending a little iron to make it much easier is not a bad or stupid thing.I believe my girl will be in Indiana playing for a decent NAIA team and going thru Pre med on the process.
Help is a good thing

If you do the leg work like i said there are plenty of schools needing players, But again i stress to my players that we need to look for schools that have majors in what they want to study. Then we narrow it to location. Again i would advise to pick a school that you would love to attend even if they didn't have a soccer program. the fact that they do is a huge bonus and the money that the player gets is a big help and a nice way for the player to say Thanks mon and dad for all the time you put in to getting me to and from games and training. It does take a little work. I have my players contacting 3 to 5 schools a month every month. College coaches talk and help each other find players as well so the more you send the better..its not hard just takes some time.

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