You have $25,000, what would you do?

So if you put your DD in a big club with a professional coach, you can count on spending about $25,000 or so over 5 years of a club career ($5K per year including dues, kits, tournaments, travel, gas, etc).  Someone keep me honest on the math, if needed.

Would you be better off putting that $25K in a college savings plan, earning 4-10% conservatively?

Assuming the kid is not the next Alex Morgan/Mia Hamm/Abby Wambach/ Hope Solo, how do you even figure out how much scholarship money is on the table?

How do we rationalize this system that we pay into, from a financial perspective?  Or are we irrational?

You can't look at girl's soccer from a strict ROI perspective, unless you consider intangibles part of the equation as many do.

What's most interesting about your post is the "conservative" 10% return.  Sign me up.

I don't think it is irrational at all.  I am not sure of the motivations of all parents out there, but if they are planning on select soccer having a financial return towards college, they are kidding themselves.  I don't even consider the numbers the way you have laid them out. 

I pay up to 5K a year for family vacations and if I put that in savings ,it would also give me more money for my kids college funds.  I spend a lot on other luxury items that I don't absolutely need, and that money could be saved for college as well. 

My main point is I think most people see select soccer the way I do, as a luxury for my kids enjoyment.  If I needed that money or had any hope that it would help her in paying for college, that money would be spent directly in a college fund. 

Just my 2cents.

Good stuff.

Gunner9, you need a new investment plan. Take your money out of bonds, and put it in equities, preferably small to midcap. Engage in insider trading, when legally possible.

RunsLikeWind, I want to go on one of your $5K vacations with you next time.

2028, true dat.

Basically, it is a financially irrational decision, and overall a non-rational decision (i.e., take it out of the ROI world).

It seems these days by the time I get a family of 6 where we are going, feed them McDonalds for a week and stay in a condo that has four walls and an air conditioner, the tab comes out to about 5K.   

I also agree with Owen Wilson that there are a lot intangibles you get back from playing competitive sports.  Try the costs of putting one in competitive gymnastics or the costumes for dance. 

The financial investment towards college is a ridiculous point of view.  I look at soccer as an investment in physical, mental, and emotional development of my kids.  For me, the life reward of competitive sports, was that I knew I could do ANYTHING if I put my mind to it.  And I'll gladly pay 5K a year for each of them if it gives them self confidence and a good work ethic!!

@ Airwynn:

I think it's very sensible to look at the ROI for select soccer.  In my opinion, anything that costs a person "big money" is worth evaluating.  That may be hundreds for some people, thousands for others, but surely 10's of thousands for just about anyone.

A little over a year ago, I had lunch with my financial planner - who just happens to have an 02 in select soccer.  We started horsing around with numbers on the back of a napkin and actually came up with a figure closer to $45,000 for the amount a person would give up (opportunity cost) for select soccer were his daughter to start in academy and play through 12th grade (including the amount "lost" when compared to an investment plan at 4.8%, which was right at the inflation index of college costs at the time).  I'm off to work right now but will see if I can figure out how we came to that figure when I get back this afternoon.

JustaSport wrote:I think it's very sensible to look at the ROI for select soccer.  In my opinion, anything that costs a person "big money" is worth evaluating.  That may be hundreds for some people, thousands for others, but surely 10's of thousands for just about anyone.

A little over a year ago, I had lunch with my financial planner - who just happens to have an 02 in select soccer.  We started horsing around with numbers on the back of a napkin and actually came up with a figure closer to $45,000 for the amount a person would give up (opportunity cost) for select soccer were his daughter to start in academy and play through 12th grade (including the amount "lost" when compared to an investment plan at 4.8%, which was right at the inflation index of college costs at the time).  I'm off to work right now but will see if I can figure out how we came to that figure when I get back this afternoon.

To me, time is my most valuable posession.  So put a $ value on the time spent and see if that makes you feel better.  On the glass half full side, I wouldn't trade some of the time spent watching my dd play for anything.  Half empty side...well...I probly wouldn't invite these people to my lakehouse every weekend.....you know who you are

OK, some of you have put the value to your DD ahead of the money spent. If we were talking cheerleading, would you pay for your daughter to get special training, camps, uniforms, etc. If she was into tennis would you pay for the lessons, the tournaments, the outfits? This truly shouldn't be about money (although even from my pocketbook view it is a major expense). It should be about one thing, does your DD play because she loves it and loves the higher competition? Or does she play because she is pleasing others and would be just as happy playing in school sports?

Mine loves the tough competition. She cried and moped for weeks when she found out her ankle injury was so bad she had to wear a cast instead of an ankle brace. This injury which kept her out of soccer for months this past season, also gave her new insight into whether or not she really wanted to play select. She told me that she felt like she couldn't breath when she wasn't playing, like some part of her was missing.

This is why I pay for her to play. Yes, she wants to play in college. No, I don't think that if she gets a scholarship that it will cover what I will have spent. I am not spending now to reap rewards later. The reward will be that she is recognized for her hard work and her ethics and gritty determination in the face of difficult circumstances. These are things she gains from what I pay for select soccer.  She is learning to work hard and not give up. She is learning to be a negotiator, a strategic thinker and not only to be a very good individual contributor but to be a team player as well.

How many college graduates get that kind of grounding before entering school? Could I put her in rec? Yes. Could I have her just play school sports? Yes. Would it give her the same level of play? No. You grow from competition, from going up against better players. You learn to adjust and succeed. These are all traits that graduates need in the world today.

So, if I have to take my lunch to work every day (never mind that I have never taken a $5000 vacation) to allow her to do what she loves the most, then I do it. My payback is to watch a beautiful young woman racing down the field, blowing past players with that determination to succeed. To see her smile when she comes off the field after playing well. To talk through the disappointments and what she could do next time. I consider these great life moments for both of us. Moments that hopefully she will pass on to her children. 

That is MY ROI.

Thanks 2028, I am with you on the practices too!

ROI and select soccer tough to manage.  I think this is next to impossible to think about.  Really let's just face it 25K is a lot of money.  However, let's go to the fact that you can't take it with you.  So let's use the number of 5K a year. Or $13 a day.  How much does one spend on cable, tolls, going out to eat and other things that might not provide an ROI. Life isn't all about ROI spending money on your children is not an ROI type of deal.  If that was the case we would probably be better off not having kids.  Spending 5 K to see my child smile when she accomplishes a new skill or scores a big goal is my ROI.  Seeing her grow into a leader and see other kids on the team develope through this process is a huge ROI.  Some things just can't be measured in just dollars and cents.  I think Competivie sports what ever the sport is also one of those things.  Anyway it's back to selling some bottles, bringing a bag lunch to work, maybe not going on that trip.  To see her face light up and say thanks Daddy.  Now that's a return on investment.  This is but a season in life enjoy it because it passes by way too quickly.

Nicely said DDSdad

I would hit the LIKE Button to DDdadsforsoccer and I would have quoted it but the quote function is jacked up. 

Well said and the proper perspective in my view.  I have heard over a lifetime kids can costs up to $300K in expenses.  Not a cheap endeavor by any means, but makes life very rewarding and beneficial.

RunsLikeWind wrote:I would hit the LIKE Button to DDdadsforsoccer and I would have quoted it but the quote function is jacked up. 

Well said and the proper perspective in my view.  I have heard over a lifetime kids can costs up to $300K in expenses.  Not a cheap endeavor by any means, but makes like very rewarding and beneficial.

To use the quote feature, press the "Switch Editor Mode" at the top of the reply box and it will return to the format we are all used to. It was frustrating me also.

soccerdad1969 wrote:

RunsLikeWind wrote:I would hit the LIKE Button to DDdadsforsoccer and I would have quoted it but the quote function is jacked up. 

Well said and the proper perspective in my view.  I have heard over a lifetime kids can costs up to $300K in expenses.  Not a cheap endeavor by any means, but makes like very rewarding and beneficial.

To use the quote feature, press the "Switch Editor Mode" at the top of the reply box and it will return to the format we are all used to. It was frustrating me also.

Thanks, seems to work.

It only took me about two minutes to run the numbers, and I think my earlier figure is reasonable.  Here were the assumptions entered into the equation:

(1) 1st - 4th grade academy @ $100 per month for club/coaching fees, leagues, uniforms, and the occasional camp.  Truthfully, I believe this $100 per month figure is far below average, but perhaps no one will immediately accuse me of inflating the numbers.  So 4 years of this x $100 equals a $4800 starting balance going into select play.

(2)  5th grade - 12th grade select @ $330 per month.  That's a shade under $4000 x 8 years.  Again, I think this number is very low.  But it's probably better leaving out all the extras such as gasoline expenses to practices/games, private skills, ODP travel, resident camps, and other extraneous expenses.  It can certainly add up to be much more than this.


(3)  I set the rate of return at only 4% to line up with average college inflation indices.  It's just a rough average and tends to vary from one website to another.  But I think we could all agree that 4% would be a reasonable expectation over a 12 year period with annual compounding.

Now, I know InaB and others have painted a very Norman-Rockwell picture of select soccer and presented how in the end... it's all worth it.  I respect that.  People are going to spend their money on their children as they see fit.  What one person sees as "too expensive" another will regard as a "good deal".  But the original questions are not so much about the intrinsic value of sports; that could be argued without end.  Rather, it asked for a "financial perspective" on all of it.  That's what I'm (loosely) supplying.

Simple Savings Calculator

Initial Amount:   Monthly Deposit:   Annual Interest (Compounded) monthly quarterly semiannually annually   Number of Years:   Your Results Your monthly deposit of $330.00  for 8 years with an interest rate of 4.00% compounded Annually with an initial starting balance of $4,800.00 Year Balance 1 $9,024.09 2 $13,417.14 3 $17,985.91 4 $22,737.43 5 $27,679.01 6 $32,818.26 7 $38,163.07 8 $43,721.68 Final Savings Balance: $43,721.68

Community college!

How about someone doing an ROI on college? Let's see, excluding community college and maybe commuter schools like UTA/NT etc....$27-50K per year x 4 or 5 years? When do you think parents or kids will get a ROI out of that unless they got some excellent scholarships? The way some professions pay it could take 20 to 30 years to pay off those loans. Not exactly the best ROI from a financial perspective.

Here's to hoping my dd marries rich...which by that time may exclude doctors, ouch!

There are lots of studies on the true value of a college education.  Most people don't want to know the reality of it all.  Here's an oldie but a goodie:  http://money.msn.com/college-savings/is-a-college-degree-worthless-smartmoney.aspx  Scott Burns, financial writer for the Dallas Morning News, has also done some very compelling pieces on this subject that are worth reading.

I wish there was a database somewhere that held the number of soccer scholarships and the colleges that offered them to young women in the area. However, the only information I have seen is when LH or our Club posts scholarship winners on their web sites. I think it would be a brilliant idea to have a web site that accumulates that information along with those colleges offering scholarships for soccer or other sports for women. (Someone go do something and charge a bucket load for it.) The good news is that young female soccer players don't have to compete against football players for scholarship money the way boys do. The majority of sports scholarships for men in college goes to football, then basketball and then baseball and track (At least in Texas). Not so among women - basketball and soccer are pretty equal in numbers of scholarships followed bytrack.

It is an unwritten rule that you don't discuss the amount of scholarship your dd has gotten. Their are too many variables to consider revealing that information, from your club team to your future college team.