Re: Keeper and thier field skills (for a U10)

by orbitzone2000 13/09/13, 02:12 pm

Cleansheets wrote:
orbitzone2000 wrote:A lot of interesting takes on this topic! I just wonder how many of you have actually played GK? I played GK for a very long time and IMHO, a GK is no different than a Forward, Mid, or a Defender. To me it's all about the Kids Personality/mentality. The things that separate our young ones are still the same. Some have outstanding speed, skills on the ball or play angles better. Why should we as parents and or coaches act like playing GK and getting the training should come at an older age. If you have a player in front of you that wants to play GK, and has advanced hand eye coordination why not Develope that at a young age, why not show that Player the correct diving Technique? I think the reason we don't see more talented GK's at a young age is because we put all the girls with the ability at forward and say go score goals. I believe that if we focused more on GK at a younger age and glorified it like we do the Striker Position, more of our young ones would be more likely to play the position. If I were starting a u7,u8, or u9 team and could have any player I wanted, I would start with a dominant GK that communicates well. A really good GK can Control the pace of a game and top Strikers are plentiful. Just my opinion and I am biased!

To answer the initial question about field skills. IMO a top GK has very good ball skills. They don't need to be as good as a top field players skills but definitely need to be good. The game has evolved and the GK's are being asked to handle the ball a lot more now days. To me the top 3 things I would look for in this order are.

1. Leadership
2. Communication
3. Ball handling

Very nice Orbitz, I really loved what you had to add. Everyone is so quick to pooh pooh specialized gk training at this age. Why not? If you have a girl who shows a proclivity to the position or who has the natural talents required to play keeper then train her as such.

Thank you for the kind words. To me I see so many of our young ones and I say to myself, Wow she or he would be a solid GK. But they are goal scorers and that's what they like doing. I just wonder if we glorified stopping Goals would they want to?why Glorify it at age 14-19 and not now?

by homiethesoccerman 13/09/13, 02:26 pm

soccerdad1969 wrote:I may be Nutz, but its all in good fun. I've got lots of friends and family who have kids that are keepers exclusively. I never said anything about parents not evaluating their kids. Just pointing out (in a fun way) that it takes a special player to play keeper. Sorry if I offended

I apologize, I misunderstood what you were saying. cheers

by tschlurker 13/09/13, 03:00 pm

Keeper training seems a must to help them develop. Most team coaches we've been around don't have time or inclination to teach goalies (many being ex-field players without a lot of patience for goalies). GK training necessary as most keepers I've seen at U10-15 have less than stellar technique on/ability to judge high shots and crosses among other problems.

As for team training/how much skill does GK need, teams we have been on always have keeper fully participate in skills training with other players, generally only getting into goal for shooting or other drills requiring keeper. Being as skilled as they can be seems essential for keepers, as they need the ability to play stationary and rolling/bouncing balls with BOTH feet under difficult circumstances. The further a keeper can comfortably play off their line and participate in defense when it is in the other end, the better.

There are a lot of kids who play soccer. There are far fewer kids who are truly soccer players. I think the great keepers are at the soccer player end of the spectrum.

BTW, my DD is not, nor does she want to be, a keeper.

by SocDad 13/09/13, 03:02 pm

So I hear all of theses topics and agree with most. So go with me on this approach.....

We all know most competitive soccer teams train 2 sessions a week....but keepers have to do an additional Keeper session a week. So that make 3 vs 2 training sessions a week a keeper has to do (one more than the field players do).

So would something like this be more beneficial:
1st Session - Skills/Feetwork...such as skills night?
2nd Session - Goal Keeping
3rd Session - Team Training

I feel that most's team training at this age does NOT work the keeper or perform defensive drills. So unless, the "team training" incorporates the goalie....then its the least important of the 3. Now I'm not saying....they should attend the pratice...but just putting them in order of importance.

by tschlurker 13/09/13, 03:13 pm

Probably depends on the nature of the team training. IMO, at that age each session should have some technical/skill components, some tactical/formation/game situation components, and perhaps some shooting/finishing. Two of those and keeper training could provide a good mix for a keeper. She can always juggle/work on touch at home.

Needs to develop ability to hit her own goal kicks as well. Big disadvantage when a field player has to do goal kicks.

by momreccos 16/09/13, 09:41 am

Got a 99 GK playing up on a 98 team. She has played and only wanted to play that position since academy. Played rec on field and in goal on academy at same time (I don't know if you can still do that). Has always done footskills with team to keep them up and yes...is utilized as a field player when playing gk. But...wanted to play gk and only gk (you gotta have that want and craziness to sacrifice yourself for the save)...so I let her...played and still playing since 4yrs.

by SocDad 16/09/13, 11:18 am

This question is posed to the ones who stated "split time in the goal" is acceptable.

So are you saying:
a. 50/50 split time in goal "withOUT" any GAMEDAY field play?
b. 50/50 split with "GAMEDAY" field play time?

Please describe your reasons for both.

Also, how much gameday field play would be appropriate if you did split 50/50? So I'm looking at it from this angle.....take a U10 game of 2x30 minutes halves. If she gets to play the 1st or 2nd half as keeper...then that leaves the 30 minutes for field play.

I guess I'm trying to decide how much field time should a Keeper get in the game, if a keeper was going to or is being forced to split 50/50.

by Crazydadof3 17/09/13, 11:24 am

I have twins who split time 50/50 in goal. They play in the field the half they are not in goal. One plays defense, so she usually plays most or all of the half. They other plays Mid and Forward. She probably plays 20 of the 30, in 10 at mid, rest, and in 10 at forward. We are U12 and our coach likes to keep fresh mids and forwards in so 10 mins at a stretch is typical for that position on our team.

by tschlurker 17/09/13, 12:31 pm

All of these considerations can get to be a political issue starting at around U11-U12. If there are two keepers who split time and both have ability to play in the field at the level of a field-only player, then in a perfect world it seems they should both be able play in the field when they are not keeping. They should probably play about half of the half they are not the keeper -- that way, they will play 3/4 of the game. This is probably about the only type of keeper/field player scenario which works well -- 2 keepers of about equal ability with solid field player ability -- at least through academy and early competitive.

On the political side, what I've seen is that after U10-U11 most of the parents of the field-only players could care less if the half-time keeper gets to play in the field -- the other parents are not really worried about the keeper's overall development. Playing time is a zero sum game and more minutes for one kid is less for another, and keepers already have guaranteed minutes. Many parents of keepers seem to want them to have the ability to play in the field as long as they are able to do so and leverage the coach to get field time. It can ultimately lead to drama.

When they get to a certain age or level, playing both keeper and in the field seems to stop for various reasons. Good keepers ultimately seem to specialize. Coaches stop wanting to put their best keeper on the field, particularly after injuries become a bigger part of the game (U13 and up). Playing time gets even more politicized. Any ECNL keepers still play the field in NTex? It would surprise me.

by SocDad 17/09/13, 01:39 pm

Thanks for sharing everyone.....

So I think that the major that have responded, have stated that for a U10DD, field skills are needed and that Gameday field time is also needed. For the field skills, they need to have good, but not excellent. I would conclude a 50/50 split with "ZERO/Very Little" Field Time is not a good option (assuming thier field skills are decent).

It also appears that at this U10 age, the best scenario is to get her to play an entire game as keeper for a more competetive league and play field for a less competitive league...(Would be nice to find this)...(maybe rec?).

I do agree, that this is the age to where coaches "start" looking for designated full time keepers. They may not end up with one yet....but they are beginning to look.

So why not position my DD into certain arenas that will allow her to shine, develop and keep her desire for the game of soccer.

by tschlurker 17/09/13, 01:48 pm

From a field player perspective to the extent you can pull off competitive and rec that can be a great combination in terms of building confidence and skill -- it would seem to offer a good situation for your DD as well. No idea of NTex dual rostering rules after academy though -- we had to give up rec after U10 in Oklahoma (although here, ironically, ECNL kids can technically now play rec since they are not USYS...)

by Keepersdad 18/09/13, 11:44 am

Thought I would weigh in on this topic because it has been discussed many times in our household. My daughter is a full time keeper and it's all she wants to play. In rec she was one of the best field players in the league and is still one of the fastest girls on her academy team but she gravitated to the GK position all on her own. We've fostered her development because she LIKES it, the same way we would foster her development in piano or karate if that's what she wanted to do.

I think it should be noted that there is a pretty heavy mental load that a GK must take on. In addition to being good with their feet and hands, they have to have a strong resolve and a good understanding of field position and angles. Errors made in the GK role are glaring and obvious to players and parents whereas a field position players errors often go unnoticed by most. GK's have to be able to forget quickly and get focused on the next one and not everyone has that type of makeup.

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