Select Dues (big Club) and a mediocre team

this is one of the oldest consumer arguments and will always be. The reason there is a Wal-Mart and a Nordstrom's is you can buy a jacket at either but one you will pay 49.99 and the other you will pay 199.99 at. Both good jackets and both can keep you warm but you expect more from N and usually you get more. There is a confidence in the purchase that the retailer will deliver a superior product and experience (or you simply like that you bought it from Nordstrom's and that makes you feel good). I think the same is true for club soccer; with a larger more successful club our expectation is they will deliver a better experience and I think in most cases they do (or we simply like saying we are X). Sometimes you get a good deal at Walmart and/or the jacket you buy there does what you expect or it may all you can afford or want to spend; that is the beauty of capitalism, the consumer is in control and it forces the providers to either be that good or go away; ask tornadoes, tfc, blackwatch, inter, and so on.

So how does LP get away with charging Nordstrom prices for a walmart product.   if im going to pay that im damn sure expecting to get that quality of product.

It would help to know what is meant in the original post by: "mediocre team." Are we talking about wins and losses, coaching, team atmosphere? For my money, I want professional coaching, a positive yet competitive environment and a friendly team experience. Can my DD get all of that for less money? maybe, maybe not. Ther are just as many small club teams that I would not sign-up for as big club teams. At the end of the day, it isn't about the jersey, it's about the people involved.

Borussia wrote:So how does LP get away with charging Nordstrom prices for a walmart product.    if im going to pay that im damn sure expecting to get that quality of product.

Don't be foolish to think anyone is charging too much. The minute they do, they will start to charge less due to supply/demand.
They don't set the price, we do by continuing to renew the contracts.

Does anyone really think Sting or Texans with their handful of teams per age group is worth it? That answer is obviously 'yes'.

For only one of my kids, I spent close to $10,000, including the combo of making some events a family affair - it was well over that. If you look at this as anything but entertainment, there is no way to financially justify being a sports parent.

Disclaimer - This was with LP and we did have several trips/events that most teams are not eligible for,but, they weren't free by any means (Surf Cup, Regionals, Nationals). Would have been more in most years as Regionals/Nationals were within driving distance.

The 'quality' of the product is entirely subjective, one person might equate quality to wins are friendships made. I've had as much fun with rec teams than with our most competitive/successful situations. We are NOT talking about any situation where a school will pace you into colleges (despite the coach-speak/pitch - none of these are a prestigious prep school). Hockaday's scholarship situation is much better than any local soccer club, for that matter, combined clubs.

wow, someone is unhappy;  I was not talking about LP (although I would say they are more Neiman's :)I was talking about consumer purchasing in general and how it might relate to the topic. Regarding LP what I assume you were refereeing to based on the growth and apparent success, enough consumers seem to agree that the product offered is worth the price paid.

As a parent I believe that its about where your child is in terms of level of play. If she's still learning then what's the problem with paying big club prices for training that is actually benefiting your child in terms of development. I've seen parents pay big club prices for a mediocre select team but eventually that mediocre went from playing at a level lower than apl d-2 level @ u-11 to playing classic at u-12. As for the LP quality comment that borussia made. I'll just say that you are entitled to your own opinion. Sorry you feel that way about the club. But it is a big misconception about LP.

What you refer to as misconceptions of mine are based on dealing with LP personally.


I understand each team and the experience is different to each of us. I had mine, never again.

Until LP can post the stats of say Sting, Texans, etc... they arent even close.

Yea well sorry about your negative experience n good luck with your current club. You hit the nail on the head though. Each team is very different.

My experience with them is directly tied to their growth. A coached allowed to get away with whay occured, and subsequently repeat similar incidents. Very little oversight, or lack of caring to do so.

The growth is due to a savy business man targeting the right parts of town. Kudos to him. Saying its based on success is completely wrong. The two flagship select squads with their vaunted coach flew the coop this summer. Academy teams are ok, but we all know what the end game is for most on here.

What did solar offer thag LP couldnt...ECNL. hhmmmm. My dd is happy with her current club and im sure she will be where ever she plays, just wont ever be LP. To each their own.

Good for you sir. Glad you found a better home for your dd. Thats the important part.

Borussia wrote:My experience with them is directly tied to their growth.  A coached allowed to get away with whay occured, and subsequently repeat similar incidents.  Very little oversight, or lack of caring to do so.  

The growth is due to a savy business man targeting the right parts of town.  Kudos to him.  Saying its based on success is completely wrong. The two flagship select squads with their vaunted coach flew the coop this summer.  Academy teams are ok, but we all know what the end game is for most on here.  

What did solar offer thag LP couldnt...ECNL.  hhmmmm. My dd is happy with her current club and im sure she will be where ever she plays, just wont ever be LP.  To each their own.

I can personally vouch for Borussia's remarks - LP failed to reign in their coach that was completely out of line with a 5 year old girl at a training session.  When the DOC and academy director were made aware of the infringement, there were no consequences imposed on the coach.  The coach (already paid in full) failed to show up for the remaining four league games, and the parents were left to fill the void.  This sort of behavior leads to negative opinions of the club, as the leadership had the chance to make ammends and failed to do so.  Obviously, that team disbanded after the season, and our DD will never be associated with LP again.  Not saying every team within LP carry similar ethics, but when the leadership fails to take action, people don't forget.

Whats worse is that similar has accured repeatedly and still nothing.

Borussia wrote:Whats worse is that similar has accured repeatedly and still nothing.  

 


Ditto.....I know they have good coaches at LP, but few and far between and LP leadership well  

From what I have seen and what I have been told I would never have my dd or bbs step on a LP practice field..too many other options to pay money into that organization.

Letting my DD play with LP was the worst mistake I have ever made as a parent.  The academy director is only concerned about wins.  Period.   I wouldn't let my DD play with that club again if it was the last club on earth.

I also know of quite a few girls that were recruited straight out of rec by LP.  They were given the big  sales pitch and told how great they were.  However, when these kids were not good enough to make the top couple of teams, they were continually passed around from team to team.  I know of one girl that was passed around to 6 different teams in about 3 weeks.  Needless to say, none of those girls play with LP anymore.   North Texas is littered with kids that have had really bad experiences with that club.
And good luck trying to talk to the academy director about anything.  Unless it helps his RASE teams win, he doesn't want to hear about it.

LP is about quantity.  Not quality.

Wow, that really got escalated and rolling downhill fast against LP didn't it? I mean, it really did.


Any club that has been around awhile probably has detractors and fans that could tell stories all day about the good or bad things about a club.

Yes, but usually when something like what occured happens action is taken.

Runslikewind is correct - anyone who knows history about all clubs know this is very common - find me a club who isn't about winning but rather developing. If they tell you that - that just means they are not competitive. Furthermore, find a 'developing' team that later becomes full of standout players - I haven't seen one yet. It's due to the fact that the better players gravitate to the better (winning) teams. They get the development due practicing against top notch players.

Keep in mind, many top coaches have left their clubs for LP in the last 2 years - thus, their academy side is building up in size and quality. Both equate to a better bottom-line for the club. Maybe it's because they know they don't have to worry about parents hanging around if there are issues (j/k). Clubs of large size have that 'pass the borderline kids around' mentality. The smaller clubs run into keeping players on the 'A' team and doing a last minute pass off to their 'B' team so they can field both teams. Not built to be a very honest system at all.

Doesn't make sense to compare results between clubs of varying age - FCD is very new relatively and they are top on the Boys side (for obvious reasons). How long has LP been around? In dog years - probably a single year.

dfeetersarethebomb wrote:Furthermore, find a 'developing' team that later becomes full of standout players - I haven't seen one yet.

I'm not sure how you define "standout players", but there are teams that were in PPL or APL, often losing more than winning, at U11 or U12, and within a few years, the teams are now succeeding in Classic league (I can think of D1, D2, and D3 examples) with mostly the same players, and those players now would be welcome or are also playing on D1 teams, ECNL, ODP, and even regional pool.  I realize that at U14, teams can essentially move up five places due to ECNL, but there definitely are teams that have become much more competitive with wins/losses by developing the players. It takes a long time, but it can be done.

intrinsic wrote:

dfeetersarethebomb wrote:Furthermore, find a 'developing' team that later becomes full of standout players - I haven't seen one yet.

I'm not sure how you define "standout players", but there are teams that were in PPL or APL, often losing more than winning, at U11 or U12, and within a few years, the teams are now succeeding in Classic league (I can think of D1, D2, and D3 examples) with mostly the same players, and those players now would be welcome or are also playing on D1 teams, ECNL, ODP, and even regional pool.  I realize that at U14, teams can essentially move up five places due to ECNL, but there definitely are teams that have become much more competitive with wins/losses by developing the players. It takes a long time, but it can be done.

I'm mainly referring to the age old 'we are not trying to win, we are trying to develop' and later 'our girls will be the world-beaters later'. It rarely happens en masse. The main reason is the better players will leave. I agree teams can improve enough and the league will water down enough to become more competitive, but sticking it out on a team that is not playing against the better teams rarely builds the player up enough in comparison to being on a better team.

Now, to say a lower level coach is better than a top team coach - that one is obvious, but rarely matters as wins and league placement and that hallowed car decal is all the parent desires.

As the players get older and those not interested in the sport leave, the play improves as well.

I do believe there was a team that won State that came all the way from Plano, but, don't recall if it was the same core (how many) or what the league/division looked like. It's easier now to do that, for certain. It won't mean that team will have a single college coach or ODP presence, however.