JD's departure from FCD

It is not LP hate.  They are just another club like all the rest.  Each have some good things and each have some not so good things.  

It is being sick and tired of hearing LP whine about not being in ECNL, arguably the most competitive league in the nation, w/o even being able to field competitive select teams in NTX.

What do they feel entitles them to be admitted to ECNL?  It may be critical to LP's business model, but who cares about that other than the people that share in those revenues?

How does it benefit NTX as a whole?  
What will LP provide NTX that is missing now?
How does it benefit the consumers/kids?
What would be the benefit to ECNL?

When there are answers to some of those questions it may help make their case.

Look at the following list of non-ECNL clubs that are as close to winning as many LHGCL division titles (all ages/all divisions) this year as LP is:
. Mustangs                     . Andro
. Kicks                           . Mutiny
. Triumph                       . Fever
. Spirit                           . Lightning
. WF Xpress                    . Sparta
. FC Force                       . Impact Futbol
. FWFC                           . American Eagles

 

outonthelimb wrote:

jm23jm wrote:

outonthelimb wrote:Bor,

Which one  Kicks '01 or '06s?  3rd/4th hand information says that the '01s struck up a different arrangement and Feet are on the outside looking in.  However Kicks '01 has been scrimmaging D'Feet u14 ECNL of late and doing quite well (2 or 3-0 win for Kicks).  I'm sure the brass at Feet took notice and the asking price for the Kick's '01 parents just went way up.  A group that good won't be left out of the ECNL party and it would be a shame for some of them to be 'worked into' a pre-existing stellar group versus going to an ECNL club intact.  Even though the rumor mill is swinging in a different direction I would still be willing to bet you a lollipop that the overwhelming majority end up at Feet.  It just makes more sense to me from 100,000 miles away and no immediate knowledge of the situation.

Regarding your '06s...all bets are off.  The '06s are so far removed in time from ECNL that ECNL may have died, been resurrected and died again before the '06s are age appropriate.

Out –Lollipop! Bet him a steak dinner, he loves losing steak dinners. lol  

Nobody knows the future, all I can say is I doubt my 01’s bolt to ECNL.  I could be wrong, won’t be the first.  Each family will have a decision to make this summer.  As for me I know what I want.  We will see if my team follows me.

All I can say about Feet is I respect the club. The coaching staff from, Hugh Bradford, Randy Shaw, David Pfeil, Frank Colon have always been classy with me.  

I just see so much potential in a Kicks/Feet affiliation.  You know that you "Kick" with your "Feet" and that both clubs have green in their uniform color palette.  I see visions of Rowdies/Texans all over again.  Kicks can have a loose affiliation until it matters and you can even get cool shirts that play upon that loose affiliation...."These Kicks are made for Feet" or "What good are those Feet if they don't have nice Kicks."  

     I want that shirt

I say Feet hands over control to JM and lets go for it.

......but LP has lots of youth academy teams.

and it loses all of its good select players to ECNL, because none of the other clubs in DFW can produce youth academy kids good enough to play ECNL.

I personally feel blessed that the 60+ kids per age group playing in ENCL mainly come from LP. I think it is wonderful.

~You'll never walk alone

again the logic is failed. You can't get into ECNL because no history off older success. I recruit your players so you can't get any success. You can't get in because you have no success. It's a nice little loop.

Here is the reality for LP. They will NEVER ask their way in. They will NEVER be invited in by the local clubs. It is in none of the other local clubs best interest to allow them in. They can develop players that you can then take and not spend the effort on. And nobody want's to let the 500 lb gorilla into the room. It has the size, resources, and facilities to not only compete but bully, better to deny them that to compete. What is the benefit to the local community? More opportunity for local players. Competition is always good. A bigger liverpool in the pool could force clubs to cut cost or provide more. For example maybe fund the ECNL team or subsidize it. greater competition is almost never bad.

So if LP gets in it will be because they manipulated, worked the machine, bullied, did whatever it took to get in. It will not be a voluntary welcome to the club with open arms. They will invite Mutiny before the INVITE LP

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So where are these 07 rankings that you speak of posted?

TatonkaBurger wrote:

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So where are these 07 rankings that you speak of posted?

This is a list of one person's opinion...or he says iStand... not sure how accurate...top 4 look good though...

https://www.txsoccer.net/t18777-07s-moving-forward

they are kept locked away at bluesky on secret servers

Lefty wrote:It is not LP hate.  They are just another club like all the rest.  

Don't you dare belittle LP, they are more than that!   

boilerjoe_96 wrote:

TatonkaBurger wrote:

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So where are these 07 rankings that you speak of posted?

This is a list of one person's opinion...or he says iStand... not sure how accurate...top 4 look good though...

https://www.txsoccer.net/t18777-07s-moving-forward

Ah yes. Interesting.  Until you get an unbiased computer to spit them out, this will have to do.

Seems for 07G, there are 4 LP teams of top 10.

Just curious, why LP doesn't want to consolidate their teams to dominate their age groups? That would give them more power to negotiate a ECNL seat, right?

boilerjoe_96 wrote:

TatonkaBurger wrote:

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So where are these 07 rankings that you speak of posted?

This is a list of one person's opinion...or he says iStand... not sure how accurate...top 4 look good though...

https://www.txsoccer.net/t18777-07s-moving-forward

go99 wrote:again the logic is failed.  You can't get into ECNL because no history off older success.  I recruit your players so you can't get any success.  You can't get in because you have no success.  It's a nice little loop.

Here is the reality for LP.  They will NEVER ask their way in.  They will NEVER be invited in by the local clubs.  It is in none of the other local clubs best interest to allow them in.  They can develop players that you can then take and not spend the effort on.  And nobody want's to let the 500 lb gorilla into the room.  It has the size, resources, and facilities to not only compete but bully, better to deny them that to compete.  What is the benefit to the local community?  More opportunity for local players.  Competition is always good.  A bigger liverpool in the pool could force clubs to cut cost or provide more.  For example maybe fund the ECNL team or subsidize it.  greater competition is almost never bad.

So if LP gets in it will be because they manipulated, worked the machine, bullied, did whatever it took to get in.  It will not be a voluntary welcome to the club with open arms.  They will invite Mutiny before the INVITE LP

Go99, Its hard to repsond... Have you actually done any research at all? If so, you would realize that the Local Folks don't invite you. ECNL is not based in Dallas, lol. New Clubs get invited each year.. Do what they do.... I think Pool is great, but you are drinking the Kool Aid on this issue. Two things you can't get around you have not addressed yet:

1) Win! No excuses. OFC and Tophat and other Clubs have many teams that are just as good as the ECNL teams. And Tophat does it in an ECNL Market! At least win State Cup at U13 and younger... (If you play in Regionals every year, you don't need ECNL, they will need you.. Earn it!!

2) Realize that ECNL realizes DFW has too many teams.. You would literally have to lose two DFW Clubs to make room...

go99 wrote:again the logic is failed.  You can't get into ECNL because no history off older success.  I recruit your players so you can't get any success.  You can't get in because you have no success.  It's a nice little loop.

Here is the reality for LP.  They will NEVER ask their way in.  They will NEVER be invited in by the local clubs.  It is in none of the other local clubs best interest to allow them in.  They can develop players that you can then take and not spend the effort on.  And nobody want's to let the 500 lb gorilla into the room.  It has the size, resources, and facilities to not only compete but bully, better to deny them that to compete.  What is the benefit to the local community?  More opportunity for local players.  Competition is always good.  A bigger liverpool in the pool could force clubs to cut cost or provide more.  For example maybe fund the ECNL team or subsidize it.  greater competition is almost never bad.

So if LP gets in it will be because they manipulated, worked the machine, bullied, did whatever it took to get in.  It will not be a voluntary welcome to the club with open arms.  They will invite Mutiny before the INVITE LP

The mis-information here is staggering.

planogirl wrote:Seems for 07G, there are 4 LP teams of top 10.

Just curious, why LP doesn't want to consolidate their teams to dominate their age groups? That would give them more power to negotiate a ECNL seat, right?

boilerjoe_96 wrote:

TatonkaBurger wrote:

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So where are these 07 rankings that you speak of posted?

This is a list of one person's opinion...or he says iStand... not sure how accurate...top 4 look good though...

https://www.txsoccer.net/t18777-07s-moving-forward

Gerrowen listed #2 behind Kicks...is Gerrard Owen Combo team. So only 3 different sets of girls from LP in top 10.

and I doubt it... academy success doesn't get them the golden ticket to the dance or hasn't...

Sounder you are woefully mis-informed. The local clubs are the ones that decide who is/isn't in ECNL. The LP parents said so.

Sting, FC Dallas, D'Feeters were the 1st clubs to join ECNL back in the '09 inaugural season. Those 3 clubs then voted unanimously to extend an invitation to the Evil Empire (Texans) in 2011 because they were nice people.  

soccersounder wrote:There is a bottom line answer for the Pool folks: Start sending multiple teams to Regional Finals like OFC and Tophat... And then you could START to have an argumement. Once again OFC is WAY ahead of you in the ECNL "to be" pecking order...

Or even win a State Cup or 2 (non-Pulp).... I guess we missed the obvious on this one... You want ECNL by skipping the State Cups... lol

Easier said than done but I agree with the argument. When the Ecnl clubs drop in top players to "help" their lake highlands club teams, then it makes it a little more challenging for the non Ecnl teams to compete and win state cup.

Also agree that there is way too much wasted energy on trying to figure out how to shameless self promotion Feet for LP. Any replacement will go to OFC and not NTX or Houston.

Pinnochio wrote:

soccersounder wrote:There is a bottom line answer for the Pool folks: Start sending multiple teams to Regional Finals like OFC and Tophat... And then you could START to have an argumement. Once again OFC is WAY ahead of you in the ECNL "to be" pecking order...

Or even win a State Cup or 2 (non-Pulp).... I guess we missed the obvious on this one... You want ECNL by skipping the State Cups... lol

Easier said than done but I agree with the argument.  When the Ecnl clubs drop in top players to "help" their lake highlands club teams, then it makes it a little more challenging for the non Ecnl teams to compete and win state cup.

Also agree that there is way too much wasted energy on trying to figure out how to shameless self promotion Feet for LP. Any replacement will go to OFC and not NTX or Houston.

ECNL starts at u 14 correct? So before then, there is no 'help' dropping in. Why not win one during that time?

futbollove wrote:

Pinnochio wrote:

soccersounder wrote:There is a bottom line answer for the Pool folks: Start sending multiple teams to Regional Finals like OFC and Tophat... And then you could START to have an argumement. Once again OFC is WAY ahead of you in the ECNL "to be" pecking order...

Or even win a State Cup or 2 (non-Pulp).... I guess we missed the obvious on this one... You want ECNL by skipping the State Cups... lol

Easier said than done but I agree with the argument.  When the Ecnl clubs drop in top players to "help" their lake highlands club teams, then it makes it a little more challenging for the non Ecnl teams to compete and win state cup.

Also agree that there is way too much wasted energy on trying to figure out how to shameless self promotion Feet for LP. Any replacement will go to OFC and not NTX or Houston.

ECNL starts at u 14 correct? So before then, there is no 'help' dropping in. Why not win one during that time?

Agreed. No reason LP shouldn't be able to compete and win titles U11 thru U13 even though I am not sure that helps their case for Ecnl any.

Lefty wrote:It is not LP hate.  They are just another club like all the rest.  Each have some good things and each have some not so good things.  

It is being sick and tired of hearing LP whine about not being in ECNL, arguably the most competitive league in the nation, w/o even being able to field competitive select teams in NTX.

What do they feel entitles them to be admitted to ECNL?  It may be critical to LP's business model, but who cares about that other than the people that share in those revenues?

How does it benefit NTX as a whole?  
What will LP provide NTX that is missing now?
How does it benefit the consumers/kids?
What would be the benefit to ECNL?

When there are answers to some of those questions it may help make their case.

Look at the following list of non-ECNL clubs that are as close to winning as many LHGCL division titles (all ages/all divisions) this year as LP is:
. Mustangs                     . Andro
. Kicks                           . Mutiny
. Triumph                       . Fever
. Spirit                           . Lightning
. WF Xpress                    . Sparta
. FC Force                       . Impact Futbol
. FWFC                           . American Eagles

With any legit business model you want to start from the bottom up and sustain a solid base.  I'm not sure if there is a satifying answer for your thirst. Put your dd on the outside looking in... What will you do if she is a legit soccer Star? Would you bolt??

I coached basketball for may years in DFW from Little Ones to HS players.  For many years, DFW didn't have shoe sponsor basketball teams until Nike, Adidas, Reebok started to shell out $$ for top players teams and coaches.  The teams that could manage to land the top players got the shoe sponsorship and the ones who couldn't, well.. Outside looking in.

My organization was the new kids on the block (Outside looking in) and we wanted shoe sponsorship funding.  We started from the bottom up; from development, winning, and putting a product (players) that were consistent out on the floor.  After several years, we managed to attain the sponsorship and helped 60 plus kids into college..  But it took dedication.

The Shoe teams had the power.  They had things other basketball programs couldn't provide - special invites to exclusive camps, free products, all expenses covered, playing Elite players from other teams, being Showcased at tournaments and playing in Shoe "Only" sponsored leagues.   Who will pass on this??

This is the same business model with ECNL.  ECNL is the shoe companies, The Clubs who were first and around prior to ECNL got he bids (players) and the one who couldn't or weren't around, well .. Outside looking in.

Looks like this is what LP might be doing. Starting from the bottom and hopefully it will bear some fruits.  From what others have stated, their academy teams seems to be doing well.  Is there a quick fix for LP to keep kids in house prior to ECNL, well, that's another story.

Oh BTW, the answer to your questions is --- "TIME"

How does it benefit NTX as a whole?  Only TIME will tell..
What will LP provide NTX that is missing now?  Only TIME will tell..
How does it benefit the consumers/kids?  Only TIME will tell..
What would be the benefit to ECNL?  Only TIME will tell..

TatonkaBurger wrote:

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So where are these 07 rankings that you speak of posted?

Since someone already opened the can of worms on #'s, let's take a look at #'s that are tracked and posted and might have some bearing on ECNL.

How many total wins does LP have in all of LHGCL (all ages/all divisions) this year?
49

How many in D1?  Counting 1st 10 U11 teams as D1 for this count.
14, of which 3 are above U11

How many in D2?
6, of which 1 is above U11

How many in D3?
29

Over 50% of all LP wins in LHGCL this year are D3

OK, OK, I know some mention of D'Feeters is coming somewhere, somehow.
They have won 30 ECNL games year to date.

I'll leave the analysis and conclusions up to someone else.

Someone else can have fun doing the numbers on:
. How many wins other clubs (big and small) have
. Avg. # of wins per LP team in LHGCL by division
. # of LP developed players on ECNL rosters per age groups

MoveYourFeet wrote:

go99 wrote:again the logic is failed.  You can't get into ECNL because no history off older success.  I recruit your players so you can't get any success.  You can't get in because you have no success.  It's a nice little loop.

Here is the reality for LP.  They will NEVER ask their way in.  They will NEVER be invited in by the local clubs.  It is in none of the other local clubs best interest to allow them in.  They can develop players that you can then take and not spend the effort on.  And nobody want's to let the 500 lb gorilla into the room.  It has the size, resources, and facilities to not only compete but bully, better to deny them that to compete.  What is the benefit to the local community?  More opportunity for local players.  Competition is always good.  A bigger liverpool in the pool could force clubs to cut cost or provide more.  For example maybe fund the ECNL team or subsidize it.  greater competition is almost never bad.

So if LP gets in it will be because they manipulated, worked the machine, bullied, did whatever it took to get in.  It will not be a voluntary welcome to the club with open arms.  They will invite Mutiny before the INVITE LP

The mis-information here is staggering.

I for one really enjoy it.

Lefty..you are hard headed...we have discussed at length why LP doesnt win at select levels...you're beating a dead horse...you must have a lot of lp hate in you...

planogirl wrote:Seems for 07G, there are 4 LP teams of top 10.

Just curious, why LP doesn't want to consolidate their teams to dominate their age groups? That would give them more power to negotiate a ECNL seat, right?

boilerjoe_96 wrote:

TatonkaBurger wrote:

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
Look at LP for 03s to 07s.

03:  3 of the top 12 teams
04:  3 of the top 9
05:  3 of top 8
06:  2 of top 9
07:  3 of top 10

So where are these 07 rankings that you speak of posted?

This is a list of one person's opinion...or he says iStand... not sure how accurate...top 4 look good though...

https://www.txsoccer.net/t18777-07s-moving-forward

Please tell me you both are joking? This is some Albert & Costello routine, right?

Joe Blow references 07 rankings (yes I said 07) that from his link appears to be some rankings (no data mind you) thrown out next to 07 team names. The poster making these rankings user name is 007Shaken (seriously). So Joe Blow references this solid ranking of 07 teams (yes I said 07) to justify Liverpool’s quality program. And if that is not enough Plano Crazy Girl wonders why Liverpool is not consolidating these 07 teams (yes I said 07) so they can make a strong case for ECNL. You just can’t make this stuff up. The 07 group should be an interest read in the coming years.   

Solid...I stated solid..please show me where I stated solid.. I actually stated not sure how accurate and was one persons opinion... nice try...but not unexpected...

MoveYourFeet wrote:

go99 wrote:again the logic is failed.  You can't get into ECNL because no history off older success.  I recruit your players so you can't get any success.  You can't get in because you have no success.  It's a nice little loop.

Here is the reality for LP.  They will NEVER ask their way in.  They will NEVER be invited in by the local clubs.  It is in none of the other local clubs best interest to allow them in.  They can develop players that you can then take and not spend the effort on.  And nobody want's to let the 500 lb gorilla into the room.  It has the size, resources, and facilities to not only compete but bully, better to deny them that to compete.  What is the benefit to the local community?  More opportunity for local players.  Competition is always good.  A bigger liverpool in the pool could force clubs to cut cost or provide more.  For example maybe fund the ECNL team or subsidize it.  greater competition is almost never bad.

So if LP gets in it will be because they manipulated, worked the machine, bullied, did whatever it took to get in.  It will not be a voluntary welcome to the club with open arms.  They will invite Mutiny before the INVITE LP

The mis-information here is staggering.

LOL oh I'm sorry you guys actually believe there is a qualification standard that clubs meet. Some sort of logical system put into place to decide who is best to put into the ECNL. Defeeters are in because they are defeeters. They had the name recognition and connections. The same political system that put the clubs in today will be the same ones that keep them in and keep others out. But yes Liverpool should just win however many titles or tournaments you think it should take. They should just flood CL with top Liverpool teams. Because then the ECNL will welcome them with open arms. Welcome to the club you have earned it. Because as we all know the most deserving always get rewarded.

boilerjoe_96 wrote:Solid...I stated solid..please show me where I stated solid.. I actually stated not sure how accurate and was one persons opinion... nice try...but not unexpected...

OK got it- not a comedy act…..still funny……please do keep posting   

Borussia wrote:This is why Kicks 01 is still around and now look... there are more Kicks teams... and growing.  

I like the odds.  

-------------------------------------

Bo'   I think everyone is in violent agreement with you:  you are without a doubt the bestest Kool-aid drinking Kicks Homer on the boards.


But lets take a hard look at the FACTS:

JM and Kicks want to turn a loose set of indy teams into a large sustainable club: attempting to leverage the success of 1 team (yes only one team) with all appropriate trappings, and promise of D1 and show case glory (and of course the requisite raise in $$costs/dues).

HOWEVER some major cracks appear:

- Kicks teams are in decline and not improving       (at an age where the promised development should be kicking in)
             Kicks Blue bottom D3, Kicks Gold fighting to stay D2, '98 Kicks dropped to Plano; all in worse form than prior year.
-Kicks lost their training facility/fields last season and has yet to replace it with a repectable one worthy of a 'decent' club.
- The top '01 Kicks has been built on the JM 'clan', as have his 06s.
         There is no other strong Kicks team on horizon outside "the clan"
         Lets not forget the 01 team raided 5 players from Solar Red Bates last year to maintain          
-Top players from familes that can, will take a hard look at big club options that provide talented players with a history and proven path to the highest level.    Kicks has NO HISTORY in this category
-The depth in Kicks coaching ranks is non-existent with recruiting of questionably qualified coaches  
             Why is that?  One would think they would bring in some coaches with history ... Does :king:JM fear a challange to his Throne ??  
Kicks also has the handicap of a poor organizational structure and poor execution, with management cobbling together a lot of promises.      


To compare Kicks at this point with established clubs like Sting, Texans, DFeeters in terms of the opportunity path to for talented players is very premature.

Plenty of competition from other clubs that have better establshed foundations, and are in much better shape top to bottom than Kicks:  Andromeda, Liverpool,  etc

Good luck Bo'  -      your chances of success would be increased significantly by getting to work for the club and laying off so much of that Kool 'aid