cards

I was watching an 03 game this morning when a girl deliberately stomped on an opposing player who was down in front of her -- think Diego Costa.  This happened within feet of and directly in front of the official.  As you have probably guessed, he chose to do nothing.  The stomped-on player then retaliated by throwing a punch.  At this point, even the pin-striped somnambulist had to act.  He did so by asking both players to leave the pitch, rightly so, but issued no cards.  When asked later why that was, he responded, "I don't give out cards in a tournament."

Not even yellows?  Why?  I've seen this nonsense too many times, and I'm curious about why so many officials are afraid to control their games.  Is it the parents they fear?  The coaches?  The clubs?  The TD?  Just trying to get through the game?  A yellow card, if appropriate, coupled with a thoughtful explanation of what is expected from the players, sets the tone and establishes clear expectations.  Groundwork is being laid.

Why are so many officials reluctant to manage their game?

Lakehighland would have to pay or get a volunteer to manage and inforce penalty vs. players and teams. To much work!

Zizou wrote:Lakehighland would have to pay or get a volunteer to manage and inforce penalty vs. players and teams. To much work!

Please tell me you're not serious.

He didn't do his job because experience has taught him that he doesn't have to do his job. The authority to disregard whichever LOTG he feels like, does not exist.

Why should referees do there job with zero to no punishment to change the habits of play of teams and clubs. No accumulation rules in place to hold teams accountable for their actions. All must be done through league authorities.

I will give a example: TAPPS ( texas association of private and parochial schools ) was challenged with a very high nunber of ejections in their winter soccer. To reduce the habit they instituted an yellow card and ejection policy of $50 dollars first infraction $100 dollars for second infraction. This policy was instituted across all their sports and has significantly reduced many of the bad habits player were getting away with.

I like it!

On the other hand they gave our forward a yellow card for standing too close a girl taking a free kick. She was simply doing what is expected, slow down the kick taker to allow your team to get set. Ref typically shoo's them away but this one handed her a yellow. Meanwhile he did nothing when that same girl was tripped in the box by the GK.

On a side note this same ref "was creepy when he talked to us" according to my DD. A bit disturbing to say the least.

banana kick wrote:I like it!

I'm not saying this policy works for all, but a policy holding other accountable will work. In the long run the policy will be moot due to players and coaches making better decisions about their play and how they teach the game.

I saw a game in which a player was issued a card for not only back talking an AR but elbowing him. There should have been several more yellows on both teams as the CR let the game get out of hand.

BTW has anyone ever seen an AR stay on the same side of the pitch but move to the other end? He stayed with the defense of one team and the offense of the other. Just wondering, the other AR on the parents side said the other one asked to change ends but not sides.

Inn Keeper wrote:
BTW has anyone ever seen an AR stay on the same side of the pitch but move to the other end? He stayed with the defense of one team and the offense of the other. Just wondering, the other AR on the parents side said the other one asked to change ends but not sides.

Technically, this is not fair. Each side is supposed to equally share the "benefits" of the possibly differing experience levels and competencies of the assistant referees.

I have seen this adjustment in a rec game to get a young A/R away from harassment by a specific coach and his spectactors, in the case where the parents were across the field from their kids' bench.

db10 wrote: She was simply doing what is expected, slow down the kick taker to allow your team to get set.

Hence the reason she got a yellow card. It is illegal to delay a free kick especially if they run up to the ball and slow the free kick taker down so as they cant take a quick free kick. Its quite clear in the LOTG
Law 12 Cautionable Offences
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/lotg_en_55753.pdf

She's 11, moved when he asked and still got it. Point is if you're not going to issue them for elbows, forearms, tripping, tackling players in the box, etc. then issuing one for that is just stupid.

Triumph FC wrote:

db10 wrote: She was simply doing what is expected, slow down the kick taker to allow your team to get set.

Hence the reason she got a yellow card. It is illegal to delay a free kick especially if they run up to the ball and slow the free kick taker down so as they cant take a quick free kick. Its quite clear in the LOTG
Law 12 Cautionable Offences
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/lotg_en_55753.pdf

which is why all kicks should be off ref's whistle, then we get a fair kick EVERY time...

That makes no sense.
The team that fouled is slowing down the the team on attack. Now your punishing that team twice because you have to wait for a whistle. So here's a thought why not coach the team that fouled to not stand in front of the ball, that way they won't get a yellow card

Triumph FC wrote:That makes no sense.
The team that fouled is slowing down the the team on attack. Now your punishing that team twice because you have to wait for a whistle. So here's a thought why not coach the team that fouled to not stand in front of the ball, that way they won't get a yellow card

Please show me one professional game where a player does not stand in front of a free kick. 1 person, 4 people, whatever, it's a wall. The same wall that has to be pushed back to 10 yards every time. How many yellows do you see for that? None. It's a tactic, just like 100 others. Yes, it skirts the rules but so does a ton of other stuff. Once again my point was simple, don't make that call against an 11 year old but allow 20 obvious infractions to slide by and then wonder why both sidelines ask WTF and laugh at you.

Of course the pro's are sneaky in how they do it. I know one player use to rant at the ref complaining it was never a foul but do that while standing in front of the ball, the ref would come and have a word with him about his rantings but all the time he has slowed the game down. I didn't see the game you are talking about but you said She was simply doing what is expected. My point to that is you run the risk of a yellow card. I don't teach my players to do that and I know a lot of coaches don't either but SOME DO. I will teach my players that if we want to take a free kick and someone stands in front of you stopping us, kick the ball at them hence the ref has to card them for failing to retreat the required distance. If you want to coach to stop us my players need to know how to get out of that illegal tactic

Triumph FC wrote:That makes no sense.
The team that fouled is slowing down the the team on attack. Now your punishing that team twice because you have to wait for a whistle. So here's a thought why not coach the team that fouled to not stand in front of the ball, that way they won't get a yellow card

Punishing? No, the ref has stopped the game with his whistle, it should restart with his whistle....

No it shouldn't it's not basketball!

Triumph FC wrote:Of course the pro's are sneaky in how they do it. I know one player use to rant at the red complaining it was never a foul but do that while standing in front of the ball, the ref would come and have a word with him about his rantings but all the time he has slowed the game down. I didn't see the game you are talking about but you said She was simply doing what is expected. My point to that is you run the risk of a yellow card. I don't teach my players to do that and I know a lot of coaches don't either but SOME DO. I will teach my players that if we want to take a free kick and someone stands in front of you stopping us, kick the ball at them hence the ref has to card them for failing to retreat the required distance. If you want to coach to stop us my players need to know how to get out of that illegal tactic

So you don't coach your girls to create a wall during a free kick? Or are they so trained they can judge 10 yards without even thinking about it? Simple fact is she stood about 6 yards away, he told her to move (not just to the 10 yards but to the side which is wrong), she moved to the side of the kicker about 5 yards away and he gave her the yellow.

ElClassico wrote:

Triumph FC wrote:Of course the pro's are sneaky in how they do it. I know one player use to rant at the red complaining it was never a foul but do that while standing in front of the ball, the ref would come and have a word with him about his rantings but all the time he has slowed the game down. I didn't see the game you are talking about but you said She was simply doing what is expected. My point to that is you run the risk of a yellow card. I don't teach my players to do that and I know a lot of coaches don't either but SOME DO. I will teach my players that if we want to take a free kick and someone stands in front of you stopping us, kick the ball at them hence the ref has to card them for failing to retreat the required distance. If you want to coach to stop us my players need to know how to get out of that illegal tactic

So you don't coach your girls to create a wall during a free kick? Or are they so trained they can judge 10 yards without even thinking about it? Simple fact is she stood about 6 yards away, he told her to move (not just to the 10 yards but to the side which is wrong), she moved to the side of the kicker about 5 yards away and he gave her the yellow.

So what's your point? You answered why she got a yellow card but you still believe she shouldn't have got one. Yet you acknowledge she was 6 yards away then moved 5 yards away and your still questioning why she should get one
I give up

sorry yellow cards for that are silly. refs give warnings all the time, give warning then yellow card. it make soccer look silly to give yellow cards for that but allow flagrant fouls to be just restart kicks....

Considering that refs call a foul EVERY TIME a player falls down, gets out of bounds calls wrong at least 25% of the time and allows arm extended pushing more times than not I'm curious why anybody expects officiating to be at any higher of a standard. The truth is that it's a tough job and demand outpaces supply. They've all got their own standard for how to officiate a game. They're officiating all different ages and not typically factoring age differences in. Fortunately, most are fair and apply their mistakes to both teams evenly. Unfortunately, soccer is a low scoring game where the outcome can easily be determined by a single call. It is what it is and it's probably not going to change. Reasonable expectations are the key.

I've often wondered why I don't see the delay call, at every level.  Same thing with simulation.  

On the Ref side, some of them make up their own laws. I've seen our team taking a direct free kick and the defense has a wall at 5 yds. (You can argue that I don't know difference between 5 & 10 yds, you'd be wrong, but you can still make that argument.) Our player asked for ten yds, the Ref says, "No, take the kick". Our girl says, "huh, they have to give me 10 yds". The Ref says, "take the kick or I'll give them the ball".

Triumph, I agree with you, but my experience tells me, you aren't going to get that call very often. There are 2 or 3 Ref's that show up at our games, and I want to break out a party hat, cuz I know they're going to call a soccer match. There are 2 or 3 Ref's that show up at our games and I wring my hands for an hour and 15 minutes, hoping no one is going to the hospital (and yes, I've seen them deliver on my worst fears).  

Being more than 50 years old, one of the things I've noticed/learned in my 5 decades is, when you find any kind of organization that is performing a task or many tasks, poorly, consistently poorly, over a long period of time, at the top of that organization you will find weak leadership. Strong leaders don't tolerate extended periods of poor job performance.

OLJW wrote:...when you find any kind of organization that is performing a task or many tasks, poorly, consistently poorly, over a long period of time, at the top of that organization you will find weak leadership. Strong leaders don't tolerate extended periods of poor job performance.

What leadership are we talking about? LHGCL, the clubs or the Tournament Directors/organizers? I cannot speak to a wealth of experience with youth soccer, but I've been to out of state tournaments and found the games are called in much the same way.

My conclusion so far is that:
- Some, not all, coaches want to win at all costs so they allow or teach the over-the-top physical play (extended hands to the back, pulling jerseys, stomping on kids, throwing unseen punches) etc
- There are parents out there who encourage this style of play...anything to get an advantage for their kiddo
- CR's must not paid enough to fill out paperwork for cards given
- I could be wrong on this, but it does not seem like a lot of CR's care to trust or involve their AR's
- TD's and or League officials must not care enough or want to manage player discipline

Bottom line to me? I feel as a parent the message I hear is show up, pay your money and shut up. Why? Because there are not really many other options. Besides, who wants to move to New Jersey or California anyway? No Tex-Mex and dang it, there are priorities in life ;-)