Battle for Equality still raging on

Sho'nuff wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:

Sho'nuff wrote:

LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

Leroux is as Canadian as Ted Cruz, and didn't play, much to my dissatisfaction.
Amy Rodriguez is from Beverly Hills.
Shannon Boxx is quoted as saying she learned about her 'other half' from majoring in African American studies.

I can appreciate what you are suggesting if you have some statistics or evidence to substantiate, but Leroux being born in Canada doesn't make her any less Black, nor does Rodriguez being born in Beverly Hills make her any less Hispanic and with respect to Boxx, don't know her personal story, but it's not where she learned it, it's what's in her blood, so to speak. Some will take what your suggestion to mean that if the player is not born in the hood then they are not deemed a "minority". It's all about merit. If there are players out there that are good enough they need to be on the team, if there are and they are being excluded then it needs to be addressed.

Honestly, I think there's a money issue, not a race issue.  The rest of my comment is just shock value; been doing that since Al Gore invented the internet.

These comments made me a little scared that I wasn't Black. Since I was born in Canada Eh. Back to reading.

Sho'nuff wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:

Sho'nuff wrote:

LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

Leroux is as Canadian as Ted Cruz, and didn't play, much to my dissatisfaction.
Amy Rodriguez is from Beverly Hills.
Shannon Boxx is quoted as saying she learned about her 'other half' from majoring in African American studies.

I can appreciate what you are suggesting if you have some statistics or evidence to substantiate, but Leroux being born in Canada doesn't make her any less Black, nor does Rodriguez being born in Beverly Hills make her any less Hispanic and with respect to Boxx, don't know her personal story, but it's not where she learned it, it's what's in her blood, so to speak. Some will take what your suggestion to mean that if the player is not born in the hood then they are not deemed a "minority". It's all about merit. If there are players out there that are good enough they need to be on the team, if there are and they are being excluded then it needs to be addressed.

Honestly, I think there's a money issue, not a race issue.  The rest of my comment is just shock value; been doing that since Al Gore invented the internet.

These comments made me a little scared that I wasn't Black. Since I was born in Canada Eh. Back to reading.

InaB wrote:I agree that having more contact between the stars and future stars would be great. I think having multiple mini camps for specific age groups would be a great learning experience. Not just for skills or general soccer training, but also a chance to ask questions about the game and how each player approaches it.

Perhaps even provide an evaluation of each player with suggestions on what they are doing right and what they could work on.

I can't think of a parent who wouldn't be willing to pay for their DD to have that kind of opportunity. And I think it would help further the cause of the USA Team.

I know that what happened for us was not in the same league as being at a clinic/session and being coached by a USWNT member, but...

...last summer our family attended a Houston Dash game (in Houston) and stuck around for 30-45 minutes after the game.  The Dash had their post game stretch and meeting on the field and when they were done the players walked over to the stands and interacted with the fans.  My daughter got 14 autographs, but even more exciting was the interaction with a couple of the players.

My daughter plays left back, so when Meghan Klingenberg came around we talked about the "glories" of playing defense.  I know she wasn't as high profile a year ago, but it was 2-3 minutes that my daughter still remembers.

The other player of note was Melissa Henderson (former Dallas Texan).  My daughter had a Texans shirt on so that Melissa could sign it.  She obliged and then took about 5 minutes to talk North Texas soccer with us.

Additionally, both Meghan and Melissa were kind enough to respond to a tweet I sent them (for my daughter) about soccer.  My daughter was going through a tough time and their responses really helped her out.

So there are opportunities to interact with the players - maybe we just need to seek them out some more for our daughters sake.

InaB wrote:I agree that having more contact between the stars and future stars would be great. I think having multiple mini camps for specific age groups would be a great learning experience. Not just for skills or general soccer training, but also a chance to ask questions about the game and how each player approaches it.

Perhaps even provide an evaluation of each player with suggestions on what they are doing right and what they could work on.

I can't think of a parent who wouldn't be willing to pay for their DD to have that kind of opportunity. And I think it would help further the cause of the USA Team.

What exactly would you be willing to pay to get that opportunity for your DD. Keep in mind the small number of players that something like that would need to be kept at to make it worth while and for them to be able to give a factual critique and not some cookie cutter cut and paste job.

I can tell you what a non star runs, $1200-$1500 per hour. Travel expenses are separate from the hourly rate.

Tom P. wrote:

InaB wrote:I agree that having more contact between the stars and future stars would be great. I think having multiple mini camps for specific age groups would be a great learning experience. Not just for skills or general soccer training, but also a chance to ask questions about the game and how each player approaches it.

Perhaps even provide an evaluation of each player with suggestions on what they are doing right and what they could work on.

I can't think of a parent who wouldn't be willing to pay for their DD to have that kind of opportunity. And I think it would help further the cause of the USA Team.

I know that what happened for us was not in the same league as being at a clinic/session and being coached by a USWNT member, but...

...last summer our family attended a Houston Dash game (in Houston) and stuck around for 30-45 minutes after the game.  The Dash had their post game stretch and meeting on the field and when they were done the players walked over to the stands and interacted with the fans.  My daughter got 14 autographs, but even more exciting was the interaction with a couple of the players.

My daughter plays left back, so when Meghan Klingenberg came around we talked about the "glories" of playing defense.  I know she wasn't as high profile a year ago, but it was 2-3 minutes that my daughter still remembers.

The other player of note was Melissa Henderson (former Dallas Texan).  My daughter had a Texans shirt on so that Melissa could sign it.  She obliged and then took about 5 minutes to talk North Texas soccer with us.

Additionally, both Meghan and Melissa were kind enough to respond to a tweet I sent them (for my daughter) about soccer.  My daughter was going through a tough time and their responses really helped her out.

So there are opportunities to interact with the players - maybe we just need to seek them out some more for our daughters sake.

Great story. It reminds me of the days like 1991 when it was fan day at Texas Stadium and I was on the field with all the cowboys players. I was 18 and talking with guys likr D. Woodson, M. Irvin and Aikman face to face with maybe 2k of fans on the field. If they did a free fan day like that today it would be crazy. I guess we better enjoy it while we can. Women's soccer will be really popular after that type of performance a couple days ago!

I know I've reached out to Yael Averbuch and was a little surprised that she actually responded to a few of my emails, often within a few hours of sending. So yes, my friend Tom P, we should take opportunities when we can for our kiddos.

And, Tom, that is a great story about your Houston trip. Next time the USMNT is in town you will have to tell me more stories ;-)

Yael also has some good video content for individual drills the kids can do over the summer. Check it out.

http://www.yaelaverbuch.com/

It's much more about money than anything else. The whole Title IX argument is nonsense. American football makes money, college soccer, men's or women's loses money, so the men don't have a leg to stand on, so to speak with that argument. Luckily for the girls the NCAA and corrupt Universities are willing to sponsor minor sports so that they don't have to pay real wages to American Football players who in any other system would be playing professionally. England for example has 92 full time professional soccer teams with more than that playing outside the football league that are either part or full time. with 5 times the population the U.S. has only 30? Meanwhile 300 Colleges!! operate the other pro teams without having to pay players.

The world cup payouts are going to be higher for men's team as the men's world cup is the world's biggest sporting event, the Womens' world cup was a huge success in North America and is making great strides. FIFA and the National FA's playing the role of the NCAA and the colleges eat up as much of the money as they can.

Hi LaLiga,

Although it would take some work and planning, some of the cost of the mini clinics could be offset by obtaining sponsors locally to help underwrite the costs. And whatever local branches of the team's sponsors could be approached as well - including hotels. Then the cost would be more manageable for players.

I think this would be doable given the increased interest in the women's professional league.

I am sure that there would even be a willing TV/radio station willing to co-sponsor such events.

It just takes some fearless parents to band together and do it.
.

Yes, fearless parents. It's being done already.

1 billion people watched the men's world cup final. Mens world cup generated over a half billion in revenue. Womens world cup generated 17 million in ad revenue, and costs around 70 million to put on...women's world cup is likely operated at a net loss or a very small profit. This story is making the rounds as if the women should be paid anywhere near the men after the US women win....but I dont recall this ever coming up in 2011. Meanwhile USSF was paid double what Japan was paid in 2011

It's ridiculous entitlement mentality. Go support local pro teams so the NWSL doesn't fold rather than worrying about trying to put more money in the pockets of WNT players.

4-3-3, I was not trying to unfairly line the pockets of the women's team. (However, it does seem excessive that the USA men's team received $8m for losing in the first round.) I was (as was the writer in the link) simply pointing out that there is still inequality. Given the fact that soccer as a whole has been slow to rise in the US as a sport, I can understand the situation here. Given the fact that soccer for women in the worldwide arena has been given, not just the back seat but the very end of the bus, is an issue.

There is a saying that "it takes money to make money." I am in hopes that more countries will take this year's viewer results to place more financial interest toward the women's games.

Perhaps this is something we can help locally by finding ways to bolster both the image and interest in women's soccer.

I agree that you have to have the interest there. So 4-3, bring your suggestions to the table on how we can help churn it.

Words are great (as anyone can tell from my posts) but what actions can we take at the ground roots level? How do we here in North Texas take the banner and run with it?

If you remove the US viewers from the equation.... what would the numbers have been?

InaB wrote: bring your suggestions to the table on how we can help churn it.

Words are great (as anyone can tell from my posts) but what actions can we take at the ground roots level? How do we here in North Texas take the banner and run with it?

I already said the suggestion about putting the Women's national team under contract and having them tour all year to work on a grassroots level with the young players...here is another:

Merge the current women's pro league with MLS. Assign a women's team to each MLS team, making them one club each with a men's and women's team. Give them the same schedules/opponents/travel schedules, play their matches prior to the men's matches (every game is now a double-header) kinda like JV football playing just before the varsity game. Not only have a men's champ and a women's champ at the end of the season, but a combined club championship as well. Consumers get more value for their ticket price, another championship race and with shared facilities/travel/etc...less cost for the teams.

And yet, with the popularity of soccer in North Texas, why is it that Dallas did not receive an NWSL team?  We put 20,000 in seats for USWNT games - better than most other locations.

10s - when expansion came up, the Houston Dynamo backed the addition of a women's team, run by the Dynamo organization.  Since then, 3 other established mens teams expressed interest in joining the NWSL.

So - where has FC Dallas been?  What effort have they put in to securing a NWSL team? Or is this just a continuing case of the girls side being a complete afterthought at FCD?

Good thoughts 10

10sDad wrote:

InaB wrote: bring your suggestions to the table on how we can help churn it.

Words are great (as anyone can tell from my posts) but what actions can we take at the ground roots level? How do we here in North Texas take the banner and run with it?

I already said the suggestion about putting the Women's national team under contract and having them tour all year to work on a grassroots level with the young players...here is another:

Merge the current women's pro league with MLS.  Assign a women's team to each MLS team, making them one club each with a men's and women's team.  Give them the same schedules/opponents/travel schedules, play their matches prior to the men's matches (every game is now a double-header)  kinda like JV football playing just before the varsity game.  Not only have a men's champ and a women's champ at the end of the season, but a combined club championship as well.  Consumers get more value for their ticket price, another championship race and with shared facilities/travel/etc...less cost for the teams.

You are hired!

NTX was not in the top markets for views for the 2015 WWC. Even Baltimore had more views than DFW area. Kansas City, St. Louis, Denver, San Diego, Austin, etc. etc. those markets led the way.

Sting had a semi-pro women's team for a short while...how many attended their games? If FCD ownership thought they could make money on a women's team, or even not LOSE bunches, I'm sure they would put up a women's pro team.

The WNT players are ALREADY under contract and paid by USSF...that's actually one of the chief complaints about USWNT is that USSF puts so much money and marketing into individual players that they become media properties and can't be replaced when they either get old or on field performance drops to the point they're no longer the best at their position.

These players are already taken care of, so much so that Abby quit her pro team before the world cup (she's getting endorsements and getting paid by USSF).

What male player has ever quit club soccer so he can draw his check from the national team? Women on other national teams have to work real jobs!

Perspective and scale is totally missing from this discussion. USSF got nearly 11% of the ad revenue back for winning the women's world cup...men received a MUCH smaller percentage of world cup revenue...an argument can be made our women were OVERPAID relative to the money their event generated.

Never once heard anyone say WNBA players should make the same as NBA players, or LPGA golfers should make the same as PGA. Women's tennis players are nearly on par with the Men because their GAME warrants it. They have the draw because of their product. People pay attention to them, and not just once every few years when it's time to wrap ourselves in the flag.

This whole line of entitlement thinking really bothers me...so basically we have the country that outspends the rest of the world on women's soccer many times over, that takes care of its female national team better than any other country, that plays in concacaf where it would have to completely tank to not qualify, that plays against other national teams where the competitors have real jobs, is complaining that their NT players, who won the world cup for the first time since '99, despite all those advantages, didn't get the same 35 million that Germany's men's federation received for winning an event 60 times larger in scale...oh and don't forget this country's take home was still doubled from the winners of the previous WWC!

Only in America.

Salary of the WNT is NOT the issue. The fact we avg better attendance at a typical big city high school football game than any women's soccer pro game is the issue.

On second thought, there ISN'T any issue is there? The game is growing. Our daughters are getting opportunities.

The only issue comes along when we start making false equivalencies that aren't grounded in reality.

Sho'nuff wrote:

10sDad wrote:

InaB wrote: bring your suggestions to the table on how we can help churn it.

Words are great (as anyone can tell from my posts) but what actions can we take at the ground roots level? How do we here in North Texas take the banner and run with it?

I already said the suggestion about putting the Women's national team under contract and having them tour all year to work on a grassroots level with the young players...here is another:

Merge the current women's pro league with MLS.  Assign a women's team to each MLS team, making them one club each with a men's and women's team.  Give them the same schedules/opponents/travel schedules, play their matches prior to the men's matches (every game is now a double-header)  kinda like JV football playing just before the varsity game.  Not only have a men's champ and a women's champ at the end of the season, but a combined club championship as well.  Consumers get more value for their ticket price, another championship race and with shared facilities/travel/etc...less cost for the teams.

You are hired!

The problem is that the women do not want to be dependent on the men in any way, shape or form. They want their own league run by themselves. Which doesn't sell. They will not be profitable. Instead of swallowing their pride and promoting soccer in the USA as a whole, they prefer to try to market a less popular product and try to compete directly with the MLS (MLS is even an inferior product to UEFA) for the very same, very limited, group of soccer fans that "might" go watch a soccer game in the US - and then complain that nobody pays premium prices to go watch, they aren't selling out stadiums, and they don't get paid as much. A recipe for failure.

It would be nice to see a club offering reduced ECNL fees like some clubs offer reduced Academy fees on the boys side:

http://www.dallastexans.com/news_article/show/502304?referrer_id=

10sDad wrote:

Merge the current women's pro league with MLS.  Assign a women's team to each MLS team, making them one club each with a men's and women's team.  Give them the same schedules/opponents/travel schedules, play their matches prior to the men's matches (every game is now a double-header)  kinda like JV football playing just before the varsity game.  Not only have a men's champ and a women's champ at the end of the season, but a combined club championship as well.  Consumers get more value for their ticket price, another championship race and with shared facilities/travel/etc...less cost for the teams.

This is a sensible and most likely viable plan. Therefore, if USSF has any say, it has no chance.

Hello 10, as a female, I can understand why the women might not want the men managing them if the head of FIFA is suggesting that they wear tighter shorts and more feminine shirts. Yep, that would legitimize women's soccer all right.  If that is what you are suggesting, then I think the men should all bulk up and play shirtless in speedos.

If the "men" running FIFA could run an uncorrupted group and provide equal marketing and management for both men and women, then that would be a home run. Unfortunately, the good ole boys still run things like good ole boys.

I am quite sure if women played soccer in Dallas cheerleader uniforms and flirted outrageously to the camera, that would sell the game to all the males in the US of A.

But then, we wouldn't really be selling soccer any more - would we?




Sorry, didn't mean for this to come off as harsh as it reads now. My point is, that at the very highest level, the mentality about women hasn't changed much. Maybe with the scandal within FIFA, there might be a chance to make some changes.

The WPSL had a team that played at Pizza Hut Park a few years ago. How many games did you go to Ina?

I'm no marketing expert but wouldn't the target market be our daughters? If so I don't see it turning into the Lingerie Futbol League.

Hi Silly, we attended four, which at the time was all I could work in time wise and financially. Since I support three grandchildren, I have to spread my paycheck equally on them as much as possible. But thanks for asking.  

Silly, no problem. I do understand. Unfortunately, it takes time in this part of the world for things to catch on. It was a tough market for men's soccer (and in some ways still is). I think the women's world cup brought women's soccer to a new audience this time - just as it did with the last men's cup.

CBT, if we are talking about women's professional soccer mini-camps, you are right, it is for our DDs. If we are talking professional women's soccer then it is for our DDs as well as all female athletes.

Honestly, then you made most of the games. Carry on!

Just sayin' - so many people looking for women's soccer at a higher level, but didn't support the WPSL locally when it was here - hardly anyone attended those games.

I have edited out pictures.  For the original article go to:
http://www.businessinsider.com/womens-small-soccer-salaries-are-fair-2015-7

Here's why it's fair that female athletes make less than men
By Shane Ferro
The Americans’ dominant Women’s World Cup win over the weekend spurred outrage after people found out just how little the women got paid compared to their male counterparts. The problem is, their pay is totally fair.
In fact, most of the people who are complaining about the prize money are actually part of the problem. How many of them have actually been to a women's professional soccer game outside of the World Cup?
The total prize pool for the women’s tournament was $15 million. Of that, the US women’s national team took home $2 million for their victory. That’s less than a quarter of the $9 million the US men’s team got last year for getting knocked out in the round of 16. The total prize pool for the men’s tournament was a whopping $576 million — 40 times the women’s haul.
This brings me to an important question: What separates men’s sports and women’s?
There's one big difference — revenue. Female soccer players are paid less because their sport makes less. According to the Wall Street Journal, there was $17 million in sponsor revenue for this year's women's World Cup compared to $529 million for the 2014 men's tournament. America's winning women earned a larger share, about 11%, of the money their tournament made this year from sponsors than the victorious German team, who got just 6.6% of the sponsor revenue from last year's men's World Cup as their prize.
The real question is not why female athletes are paid less. People should be asking why fans and sponsors are less interested in supporting women's sports — and this is what they should be outraged about.
I’m sure there are all sorts of technical details that could be used to explain just how the men’s game differs from the women’s, and they vary from sport to sport. The one answer that doesn’t hold up is that men’s sports are somehow inherently more interesting to watch than women’s. They are certainly not 40 times more interesting to watch.
Most of us have been socialized to accept men’s sports as dominant, and somehow automatically more interesting. The problem is that once society has internalized this falsehood — and let’s face it, it’s a falsehood that’s millennia in the making — it’s not so easy to correct it. Women have been fighting for decades, centuries, to be seen as equals to men both on the playing field and off of it.
We’ve made a lot of progress, but we’re nowhere near the end of the fight. Women may deserve to be treated equally, but they are not. And that has direct consequences for a business run on sponsorships. It’s morally outrageous that Carli Lloyd doesn’t get paid as much as Lionel Messi, but in the current economic environment, it seems pretty fair.
When the US National Women's Soccer League started up in 2013, Julie Foudy wrote for ESPN that “professional sports, for men and women, are not about who deserves them or who has earned the right to play professionally; professional sports leagues are governed by one simple principle -- what the market will bear.”
That market for women’s soccer in the US, home of many of the best players in the world, is apparently salaries of $6,000-30,000 per player.
But why is the market so small? For one thing, the entire market for professional soccer in the US is small — male players have minimum salaries of $36,500, and about a quarter of the MLS league makes less than $50,000 (though the top players make millions). For another, no one goes to games. Perhaps related, there’s very little sponsorship. In other words, if more people were actually paying to watch women's sports, the situation might be different.
The lack of attendance and sponsorships contribute to a chicken-or-the-egg problem when it comes to getting women’s sports up off the ground.
“Absent deep-pocketed investors who can commit for several years, women’s professional teams and leagues find themselves scrambling to survive almost from the moment they launch,” Shira Springer writes in the Boston Globe.
And this is the real outrage. So many professional women’s sports initiatives are set up to fail because they don’t have enough support from the beginning. Sponsors set up shop for a year or two, then bolt when they don’t see immediate returns, which sends teams and leagues into survival mode almost from the beginning.
In women’s cycling, to use another example, (where, to be fair, changing sponsors every year isn’t uncommon even on the men’s side) one of the world’s top-ranked teams, with 10 Olympians on the roaster, turned to crowd funding going into the 2015 season. It raised about $100,000, out of its stated $700,000 goal. [Disclosure: I donated.]
Yet with this year’s women's World Cup, there is perhaps some hope.
In the US, the 2015 women's World Cup had nearly 50% more viewers (in English) than the men’s version.
World Cup final viewership:
2014: 17.3m in English, 9.2m in Spanish.
2015: 25.4m in English, 1.3m in Spanish.

It’s becoming clear that there is a market there, if someone is willing to figure out how to take advantage of it. But it's still unclear how that will translate to the NWSL until the next World Cup.
However, you, dear reader, can do only one thing and it's not complaining about prize money on social media. If you want to fix the income disparity in women's sports, go buy a jersey or tickets for a game.