U11 D1 Supergroup?

Just curious what soccer people, outside of my bubble, would like to see.

guys, this is a problem.

I'm not going to make an elitist argument. I think this is mostly an issue of 9v9 compared to 11v11. The score can get lopsided real quick.

I vote for 10/10/10 and have 3 divisions from the start. I know it's not done that way but I'm not smart enough to figure out why it can't be done. Based solely on current rankings, 1-3 ranked teams will have 5-6 competitive games for the entire year. And could be less than that depending on how things shake out this summer. Teams ranked 4-12 they will have the best of all worlds, a few cake walk games, a few competive games and a few demoralizer games. Teams ranked 13 and below, take cover and hope it all ends soon.

It used to be 10/10/10, but changed somewhere back around when the '98's or '99's qualified at U11, if memory serves me correct.

The argument against 10/10/10 is that with the current QT format of typically having 11-14 4-team brackets in week 1, you end up determining the D1 cutoff based on points, and will have some week 1 bracket winners not in D1. So unless you change the QT format significantly, which present logistics challenges, I can see where it's not the ideal way to try and figure out the 10 best teams.

On the other side, you are correct that you get several lopsided contests at U11 with a 20-team Supergroup, but you do generally get a better determination and setup of the top 10 and second 10 for U12 and beyond.

...and trust me when I say that 2 years from now, none of this will really matter to you anymore (unless you've got another one coming up through the process).

Uwon't wrote:I vote for 10/10/10 and have 3 divisions from the start. I know it's not done that way but I'm not smart enough to figure out why it can't be done. Based solely on current rankings, 1-3 ranked teams will have 5-6 competitive games for the entire year. And could be less than that depending on how things shake out this summer. Teams ranked 4-12 they will have the best of all worlds, a few cake walk games, a few competive games and a few demoralizer games. Teams ranked 13 and below, take cover and hope it all ends soon.

Pretty good overview

I vote for 15-15. Meet in the middle on this.

Remind me again the U11 record for goals scored?

Uwon't wrote:I vote for 10/10/10 and have 3 divisions from the start. I know it's not done that way but I'm not smart enough to figure out why it can't be done. Based solely on current rankings, 1-3 ranked teams will have 5-6 competitive games for the entire year. And could be less than that depending on how things shake out this summer. Teams ranked 4-12 they will have the best of all worlds, a few cake walk games, a few competive games and a few demoralizer games. Teams ranked 13 and below, take cover and hope it all ends soon.

So about $400-$600 per competitive game?

Sho'Nuff wrote:

Uwon't wrote:I vote for 10/10/10 and have 3 divisions from the start. I know it's not done that way but I'm not smart enough to figure out why it can't be done. Based solely on current rankings, 1-3 ranked teams will have 5-6 competitive games for the entire year. And could be less than that depending on how things shake out this summer. Teams ranked 4-12 they will have the best of all worlds, a few cake walk games, a few competive games and a few demoralizer games. Teams ranked 13 and below, take cover and hope it all ends soon.

So about $400-$600 per competitive game?  

Sounds about right but they still get a competitive training environment with quality coaches and that's what's important, right? Plus there will be plenty of playing time for the girls 10-13/14 on the top teams.

Based on recent years, 20 in D1 and 10 in D3 is the right model.  Depending on the age group, there are a couple separation points in D1.  The separation in D1 is usually around the team ranked 6-9 at end of season.  You can clearly identify the top D1 teams based on both goal differential and W/L.  The next separation point is typically between spots 13-15.   That shakeout takes a season to sort itself out.  The bottom 5 in a 20 team supergroup always gets pummeled, but that is just the imperfection of a qualifying tournament.

Shake_and_Bake wrote:Based on recent years, 20 in D1 and 10 in D3 is the right model.  Depending on the age group, there are a couple separation points in D1.  The separation in D1 is usually around the team ranked 6-9 at end of season.  You can clearly identify the top D1 teams based on both goal differential and W/L.  The next separation point is typically between spots 13-15.   That shakeout takes a season to sort itself out.  The bottom 5 in a 20 team supergroup always gets pummeled, but that is just the imperfection of a qualifying tournament.

I believe 9v9 changes everything that you experienced vets know about this topic. Records will be broken! I wouldn't be surprised if this '06 agegroup is the last 'supergroup' we see.

Sho'Nuff wrote:

Shake_and_Bake wrote:Based on recent years, 20 in D1 and 10 in D3 is the right model.  Depending on the age group, there are a couple separation points in D1.  The separation in D1 is usually around the team ranked 6-9 at end of season.  You can clearly identify the top D1 teams based on both goal differential and W/L.  The next separation point is typically between spots 13-15.   That shakeout takes a season to sort itself out.  The bottom 5 in a 20 team supergroup always gets pummeled, but that is just the imperfection of a qualifying tournament.

I believe 9v9 changes everything that you experienced vets know about this topic.  Records will be broken!  I wouldn't be surprised if this '06 agegroup is the last 'supergroup' we see.

Sho'Nuff, first half of the season in D1, the results may be one sided, but I think the gap will close faster than years past. I am also confident you will see another 3-4 teams emerge in the coming months that contend with the top 4-5 teams.

It sure is a fine day.

Are we looking at 5 teams or 10 teams in the top flight?

Sho'Nuff wrote:It sure is a fine day.  

Are we looking at 5 teams or 10 teams in the top flight?

?? we still on this topic of this thread or a new one??

Looks like sho' got his wish with this Jr. Development league. Just one question, will the 10 teams still play in the regular lhgcl or just the development league?

It will depend if the ECNL clubs are willing to forego their top 2 teams playing in State Cup...

BW are you a lawyer by trade. You sure can close a lot of loopholes.

um, player pass...

AtThePitch wrote:um, player pass...

Can't CPP a full roster, so either the clubs will forego State Cup, or you will see a lot of dual rostering going on.  I know which one my money is on... (hint... so much for USSF guidelines about training:game ratio...)

You've been at this for years BW... same tune, different channel....

Uwon't wrote:Looks like sho' got his wish with this Jr. Development league. Just one question, will the 10 teams still play in the regular lhgcl or just the development league?

Obviously, I'm hoping for one league. What are the parents saying?

Sho'Nuff wrote:What are the parents saying?

"Eff those idiots at USSF! It's way more important for me to be able to show that iPhone picture of little Abbyalex holding the State Cup trophy to everyone at the office on Monday morning!"

Sho'Nuff wrote:

Uwon't wrote:Looks like sho' got his wish with this Jr. Development league. Just one question, will the 10 teams still play in the regular lhgcl or just the development league?

Obviously, I'm hoping for one league.  What are the parents saying?

Thought that would be the case until BW made the state cup point. No way the 10 teams will miss out on that. My DD is on the outside looking in with regards to the development league so I was just excited there could possibly be 10 less demoralizer games in my dd's future, that's if they even made D1. So back to status quo, 10 teams get to play a few more competitve games and get another recruiting tool, which 3 clubs have already used it, to make their teams even stronger.

bwgophers wrote:

Sho'Nuff wrote:What are the parents saying?

"Eff those idiots at USSF!  It's way more important for me to be able to show that iPhone picture of little Abbyalex holding the State Cup trophy to everyone at the office on Monday morning!"

De facto State Champ will suffice

Sho'Nuff wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

Sho'Nuff wrote:What are the parents saying?

"Eff those idiots at USSF!  It's way more important for me to be able to show that iPhone picture of little Abbyalex holding the State Cup trophy to everyone at the office on Monday morning!"

De facto State Champ will suffice

06southgirl wrote:

Sho'Nuff wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

Sho'Nuff wrote:What are the parents saying?

"Eff those idiots at USSF!  It's way more important for me to be able to show that iPhone picture of little Abbyalex holding the State Cup trophy to everyone at the office on Monday morning!"

De facto State Champ will suffice

No one good enough in the '06's to earn De Facto status...