DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

You have to make up your mind, one moment you're talking about the pro level, the next semi-pro U23's. One moment you talk about Pro teams locking up players prior to attending college the next your saying they can play in those same u23's to "stay in shape".

So by U23 are you talking WPSL or just some miscellaneous amateur league? If the answer is WPSL please point out the players on FCD (close to home) that are currently playing in college while playing in the league.

I don't know the back ground of each player, but their final game is today at Bishop Lynch stadium. That's a plug for the women's team.

You said it. Semi - PRO. That's all we have here until 2019.

Women's game is experiencing growth. With growth comes change. I will leave it at that. ✌

I believe the WPSL was going to be made up of both amateur and pro teams. However they realized the conflict with the NCAA and now it is amateur. So when you speak of FCD U23 you are speaking about an amateur team, not Pro or "Semi-Pro". And your theory of a girl "signing" with a pro team to make a living out of high school does not apply when speaking about the WPSL, they're make $0. And as far as I know $0 isn't paying the bills. Nor does your theory apply to a NWSL team as they ARE pro and the player would forfeit their eligibility immediately.  

So ultimately you're waiting for the day when a team like the Portland Thorns or Lyon or Arsenal Ladies will come shopping for high school and club players who didn't choose the college route. Not sure I'd hold my breath.

No, but developing players through their academies giving them two options to playing soccer at the next level. Mallory Pue and others who have chosen to forgo college could continue to grow now that these academies and the women's game grows. Again, I re-peat, one size does not fit all.

Tatu would be the perfect coach to get a semi pro team going.

Zizou wrote:

KeeperCommander wrote:

Zizou wrote:Let the college coach know your going to come on his scholarship and get a nursing degree. See what he says!

Just about every college coach I ever talked with said the same thing to every player. "Better get that degree, and in something you enjoy as much as sports".  Reality, injury or life will always win out except for the select few.
First you have to live the scholarship before you speak of the scholarship.

Yep, you have been fed the company line. Their are a lot of useless degrees that can be obtained. Players return to college after their eligibility to further their education just to have a diploma that could sustain a life and family.

Hmmmm, speaking of scholarship. You don't know me.

Yup that company line about a degree is complete BS huh. Shame on them for the preparation of life and crap like that. Makes my skin crawl that someone would do that.
Or I guess they could just be on the 6 year plan and earn minimum wage and feed off the government later in life.
And no I don't know you but pie eating is not a scholarship sport per the NCAA.

Clearly AD has earned a ton of respect for his past accomplishments and legacy of positively impacting lives. That said...this topdrawer article is garbage. I'd like to see actual stats supporting claim there is no age bias in us womens soccer. EVEN if the facts hold water, which is doubtful, this wild leap claiming unlimited subs negate age bias is absurd. It's so Topdrawerishly absurd, it sounds more like something Parchman would say rather than Anson.

For me Anson loses some credibility with this wading into the cesspool of ecnl's PR war with ussf. Maybe he's ticked about how recent UNC grads have been treated by uswnt?...dunno. But it's clear, DA is as anti-Anson Dorrance playbook as it gets.

However, of his 21 titles, not many have come in the modern era where the game is shifting towards more skillful players.  I think Dunn and crew were pretty fortunate to get that last one...but UNC is no longer the pinnacle of the game in W/L column... and I'd argue no longer elite  in sophistication of their play. Anson's give 1000%  for 20 minutes then sub style is no longer dominant at the top of  NCAA. This style may have worked in early title9 era, but would get him crushed internationally in today's game. It's good that he acknowledges where we are compared to more technical nations, but that awareness leaves me doubting Anson truly thinks unlimited subs are an asset to the international player.

I think Anson knows he can roster 40 players and believes that's an advantage for him. If NCAA ever did move to FIFA rules, the AD legacy style, as we've known it, would be relegated to the history books...immediately.

Crystal Dunn - UNC
Megan Klingenberg - UNC
Allie Long - UNC
Ashlyn Harris - UNC
Tobin Heath - UNC
Heather O'Reilly - UNC
Kealia Ohai - UNC

Anson and his style is washed up...past 5 years he's only 81-23-10 and won 1 national championship. Are other programs catching up? Sure, but saying he and the program aren't still in the upper echelon of the sport is laughable.

db10 wrote:Crystal Dunn - UNC
Megan Klingenberg - UNC
Allie Long - UNC
Ashlyn Harris - UNC
Tobin Heath - UNC
Heather O'Reilly - UNC
Kealia Ohai - UNC

Anson and his style is washed up...past 5 years he's only 81-23-10 and won 1 national championship. Are other programs catching up? Sure, but saying he and the program aren't still in the upper echelon of the sport is laughable.

Interesting article.  You can understand why the DA cheerleaders have their feelings hurt.  But it's just an opinion and we are going to need 3 to 5 years to see the effects. Sorry to beat that dead horse again.

The DA is a good idea but it's not replacing ECNL anytime soon. Too many college coaches are heavily tied to ECNL and won't like being pushed to the side by those in USSF, especially when the national teams are pretty much made up of players from 3 schools. I agree with Anson 100% when he asks why the DA and ECNL didn't work together.

db10 wrote:I agree with Anson 100% when he asks why the DA and ECNL didn't work together.

Simple answer... EGOS.

bwgophers wrote:

db10 wrote:I agree with Anson 100% when he asks why the DA and ECNL didn't work together.

Simple answer...  EGOS.

Agreed.

What people are missing is that DA's sole purpose is to funnel players into the NT. Which means what, 22 players out of 1,600 playing DA per age group? ECNL's purpose always has been to feed players into the colleges. Now I don't think college coaches will ignore DA but will their relationship with USSF be as symbiotic? According to the article it doesn't look as cut and dry as you would think.

db10 wrote:Crystal Dunn - UNC
Megan Klingenberg - UNC
Allie Long - UNC
Ashlyn Harris - UNC
Tobin Heath - UNC
Heather O'Reilly - UNC
Kealia Ohai - UNC

Anson and his style is washed up...past 5 years he's only 81-23-10 and won 1 national championship. Are other programs catching up? Sure, but saying he and the program aren't still in the upper echelon of the sport is laughable.

Yes but you didn't list the ages of those players. Dunn is the only young player in next wave of uswnt talent from UNC (that gets consistent call ups). And she makes my point actually. Hermann award winner...national champion...dropped from uswnt roster for WC until she put in a ton of work post anson to improve her understanding of the game. She learned how to compete from Anson and how to capitalize on her phenomenal athleticism, which is what his style is all about. But if she had come out of a program like UVA or Penn State, she would've been more ready for the international game. A whole generation of coaches that have copied the Anson style are either adapting or falling behind to the modern women's game which is becoming more sophisticated every year.

Its not laughable to state UNC is not as dominant as they were in their heyday. Anyone reasonably interested in the womens game can watch the product on the field and see a distinction from how the Anson approach schools play vs the more technical programs (FSU, Penn State, Santa Clara, etc etc). Its not hard to see the trends. Regardless whether DA is successful, root for the technicians to win out over the recruiters and motivators. Only way the womens game grows is for the product on the field to be pleasing to watch.

db10 wrote:The DA is a good idea but it's not replacing ECNL anytime soon. Too many college coaches are heavily tied to ECNL and won't like being pushed to the side by those in USSF, especially when the national teams are pretty much made up of players from 3 schools. I agree with Anson 100% when he asks why the DA and ECNL didn't work together.

College coaches are tied into identifying and recruiting TALENT. Most programs could care less what league they come from.  DA will never replace ECNL, and that shouldnt be their goal. Develop the best and most committed players best you can. That's the goal. DA and ECNL didn't work together for the same reason ECNL didn't work with USYS.

If you're reading this thread and have younger kids who want to play at the next level, my advice to you is to pay no mind to the DA/ECNL talk (it will work itself out and you won't be able to affect how it does) and Anson Dorrance talk.  Instead I would pay close attention to this answer given by AD:

“That’s the first thing. As they get a bit older, I still think we should develop what’s called the universalist. I don’t have complete buy-in with the fact that we’re going to follow a YourApeeIn (I didin't do this, website did) best practices idea for players to play one position. I don’t think that’s a good idea. I pity the player who would have to play behind a Michelle Akers. She played at an elite level into her mid-30’s, so if you want to end up starting on the national team and play behind a Michelle Akers, you’re never going to get on the freaking field unless you have the versatility to move.


As much as you can, try to get your kid to be more than a one position player.  Ask any parent of a college GK about how hard it is to break into a lineup when there is only one position for them to play. The more they can do on the field, the bigger chance they will have to actually get onto the field.

While I'm primarily talking about college soccer, it applies to all "next levels".

Gunners wrote:If you're reading this thread and have younger kids who want to play at the next level, my advice to you is to pay no mind to the DA/ECNL talk (it will work itself out and you won't be able to affect how it does) and Anson Dorrance talk.  Instead I would pay close attention to this answer given by AD:

“That’s the first thing. As they get a bit older, I still think we should develop what’s called the universalist. I don’t have complete buy-in with the fact that we’re going to follow a YourApeeIn (I didin't do this, website did) best practices idea for players to play one position. I don’t think that’s a good idea. I pity the player who would have to play behind a Michelle Akers. She played at an elite level into her mid-30’s, so if you want to end up starting on the national team and play behind a Michelle Akers, you’re never going to get on the freaking field unless you have the versatility to move.


As much as you can, try to get your kid to be more than a one position player.  Ask any parent of a college GK about how hard it is to break into a lineup when there is only one position for them to play. The more they can do on the field, the bigger chance they will have to actually get onto the field.

While I'm primarily talking about college soccer, it applies to all "next levels".

100 percent agree.

DA e-mails to players are starting to show up. It's going to be a interesting experience in the first season.

tpitty wrote:

Gunners wrote:If you're reading this thread and have younger kids who want to play at the next level, my advice to you is to pay no mind to the DA/ECNL talk (it will work itself out and you won't be able to affect how it does) and Anson Dorrance talk.  Instead I would pay close attention to this answer given by AD:

“That’s the first thing. As they get a bit older, I still think we should develop what’s called the universalist. I don’t have complete buy-in with the fact that we’re going to follow a YourApeeIn (I didin't do this, website did) best practices idea for players to play one position. I don’t think that’s a good idea. I pity the player who would have to play behind a Michelle Akers. She played at an elite level into her mid-30’s, so if you want to end up starting on the national team and play behind a Michelle Akers, you’re never going to get on the freaking field unless you have the versatility to move.


As much as you can, try to get your kid to be more than a one position player.  Ask any parent of a college GK about how hard it is to break into a lineup when there is only one position for them to play. The more they can do on the field, the bigger chance they will have to actually get onto the field.

While I'm primarily talking about college soccer, it applies to all "next levels".

100 percent agree.

Yessir!

Gunners wrote:If you're reading this thread and have younger kids who want to play at the next level, my advice to you is to pay no mind to the DA/ECNL talk (it will work itself out and you won't be able to affect how it does) and Anson Dorrance talk.  Instead I would pay close attention to this answer given by AD:

“That’s the first thing. As they get a bit older, I still think we should develop what’s called the universalist. I don’t have complete buy-in with the fact that we’re going to follow a YourApeeIn (I didin't do this, website did) best practices idea for players to play one position. I don’t think that’s a good idea. I pity the player who would have to play behind a Michelle Akers. She played at an elite level into her mid-30’s, so if you want to end up starting on the national team and play behind a Michelle Akers, you’re never going to get on the freaking field unless you have the versatility to move.


As much as you can, try to get your kid to be more than a one position player.  Ask any parent of a college GK about how hard it is to break into a lineup when there is only one position for them to play. The more they can do on the field, the bigger chance they will have to actually get onto the field.

While I'm primarily talking about college soccer, it applies to all "next levels".

Wait...So I should ignore the u10 coach who's searching for a full time GK

db10 wrote:

Gunners wrote:If you're reading this thread and have younger kids who want to play at the next level, my advice to you is to pay no mind to the DA/ECNL talk (it will work itself out and you won't be able to affect how it does) and Anson Dorrance talk.  Instead I would pay close attention to this answer given by AD:

“That’s the first thing. As they get a bit older, I still think we should develop what’s called the universalist. I don’t have complete buy-in with the fact that we’re going to follow a YourApeeIn (I didin't do this, website did) best practices idea for players to play one position. I don’t think that’s a good idea. I pity the player who would have to play behind a Michelle Akers. She played at an elite level into her mid-30’s, so if you want to end up starting on the national team and play behind a Michelle Akers, you’re never going to get on the freaking field unless you have the versatility to move.


As much as you can, try to get your kid to be more than a one position player.  Ask any parent of a college GK about how hard it is to break into a lineup when there is only one position for them to play. The more they can do on the field, the bigger chance they will have to actually get onto the field.

While I'm primarily talking about college soccer, it applies to all "next levels".

Wait...So I should ignore the u10 coach who's searching for a full time GK

Actually, no... in your case, that's your DD's best chance at seeing the field for more than 10 minutes a game this year...


(Just Kidding!!! You know I can't resist when I see one feed up like that! )

db10 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

db10 wrote:I agree with Anson 100% when he asks why the DA and ECNL didn't work together.

Simple answer...  EGOS.

Agreed.

What people are missing is that DA's sole purpose is to funnel players into the NT. Which means what, 22 players out of 1,600 playing DA per age group? ECNL's purpose always has been to feed players into the colleges. Now I don't think college coaches will ignore DA but will their relationship with USSF be as symbiotic? According to the article it doesn't look as cut and dry as you would think.

Or maybe we're not missing anything ... Certainly not ^ USSDA's sole purpose.  

And surely you don't think that college coaches won't simply go to where the best players are, regardless of affiliation ... right?  Not saying the best will eventually be participating in the DA program and Showcase events ... well ... no ... I am saying that the best will eventually be participating in the DA program and Showcase events ; )

BigErn wrote:

db10 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

db10 wrote:I agree with Anson 100% when he asks why the DA and ECNL didn't work together.

Simple answer...  EGOS.

Agreed.

What people are missing is that DA's sole purpose is to funnel players into the NT. Which means what, 22 players out of 1,600 playing DA per age group? ECNL's purpose always has been to feed players into the colleges. Now I don't think college coaches will ignore DA but will their relationship with USSF be as symbiotic? According to the article it doesn't look as cut and dry as you would think.

Or maybe we're not missing anything ... Certainly not ^ USSDA's sole purpose.  

And surely you don't think that college coaches won't simply go to where the best players are, regardless of affiliation ... right?  Not saying the best will eventually be participating in the DA program and Showcase events ... well ... no ... I am saying that the best will eventually be participating in the DA program and Showcase events ; )

There are a lot of wonderful colleges and a lot of spots available, and many (most) of the best colleges (academically speaking) are not D1.  In other words, there are a lot of paths available, and to suggest one is better than another is to ignore the unique needs or desires of each individual player.

Great point about looking outside of D1. A ton of tremendous schools exist to find the right fit, and by many accounts the collegiate experience for athletes is much less taxing and more sustainable/ rewarding...especially for kids with challenging majors. The issue is players with options to get D1 money have to turn down verbals early and wait for the upper echelon d2/d3 schools which dont recruit as early. Most kids in 9th and 10th grade have no idea what kind of environment will best suit them for college. I've said it before...keep these kids focused on great academics. Their leverage and options in the recruiting game expand considerably. Academic studs who are only above average athletes are like free money to D1 programs, but can go anywhere they want if they decide the D1 athlete job is not an appealing lifestyle. Of the top 50 academic schools at least 30% are not D1...MIT, Chicago, Hopkins, Emory, Brandeis....etc

DIII schools do not offer athletic scholarships and if your DD is gunning for MIT, soccer should be the least of her worries. Most DIII coaches won't start contacting you before your senior year because they want to see if you're academically able to get into the school. They can build relationships prior, in fact DIII coaches are a lot less regulated than their DI and DII counterparts, however their budgets typically don't allow them to go crazy. It all makes sense, If I'm the coach for MIT why waste time and money chasing a freshman if I'm not sure they can't get in.

ElClassico wrote:DIII schools do not offer athletic scholarships and if your DD is gunning for MIT, soccer should be the least of her worries. Most DIII coaches won't start contacting you before your senior year because they want to see if you're academically able to get into the school. They can build relationships prior, in fact DIII coaches are a lot less regulated than their DI and DII counterparts, however their budgets typically don't allow them to go crazy. It all makes sense, If I'm the coach for MIT why waste time and money chasing a freshman if I'm not sure they can't get in.

Knock the PSAT out in the 8th grade along with top shelf grades. The D3 coach wants to know you have a specific reason for interest in their school...point is you won't have to jump at early offers (often marginal) if your kid is strong enough academically to be near the top academic index or "bands" for a selective school.

Ivies dont give athletic schollies either, but coaches have tools they can use to support admission, and somehow they find a way to get the aid to those who need it. Most these selective programs send their recruits through early decision which is usually due early senior year..not likely these selective d3 school recruiting conversations will be just starting up when kids are already seniors.

I will say this coming to the end of club soccer with my daughter and the whole recruitment experience.  Over the years she has played with or against some of the best players in the 99 and 00 divisions.  She made the choice when the first year became available for ECNL to stay and play with her team because she enjoyed the team and coach. She has played LH Div.1, Champions League and now for her senior year ECNL.  Her coaches did a great job of playing in all the major showcases in and out of the state. ID camps that where actually focused on recruitment where highly beneficial to.

I think the biggest thing everyone forgets is that each player comes into their own at different times.  I think the biggest asset is having parents and coaches who are actively involved in their players recruitment.  My daughter has been recruited by D1, D2 and D3 schools.  Her academics are 1A and then soccer 1B.  She understands now that each goes hand in hand with college coaches and the recruitment of the athlete. She committed to a D2 college because she felt it is best fit for her and what she wanted out of a school.  

Unless your player is in the top 2% of the nation college coaches will not come looking for them. Now that is not to say that being ECNL and DA does not help.  You have to remember what is your players ability.  If they can play at that level and be on the field then awesome. When you play for top teams there are going to be players in that top 2% and that benefits your player because if coaches are there they are watching.

But on the flip side I have seen players from LH Div 1- Div 3 recruited and commit to all levels of colleges. They where recruited because they where good players with good grades! Alot of these players could play ECNL or DA, but for one reason or another choose to play in that league.  Once again be diligent in choosing your coach and team. Some coaches are in just for the money and some are there to make your player better and get them to the next level.

Anyways my two cents on what I have seen and work for other players and my daughter.  Now to finish the final year of club soccer and dish out more money for college YAY! NOT!