Re: Is this Legal?? Mandatory Academy Club Fundraiser

by DDx3 30/03/12, 07:29 am

Had a daughter that once played for LP. Great coaches and programs but all the fees really stunk. They had admin fees, fund raiser fees, extra skill fees, and etc. I would have rather them just charge me extra up front instead of hitting me with all the fees throughout the year.

by glitterbeam 30/03/12, 08:16 am

DDx3 wrote:Had a daughter that once played for LP. Great coaches and programs but all the fees really stunk. They had admin fees, fund raiser fees, extra skill fees, and etc. I would have rather them just charge me extra up front instead of hitting me with all the fees throughout the year.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about here. We pay $90 a month and have one fundraiser a year. We don't pay any of these fees that you mentioned for my dd on an LP team.
We pay our tournament fees and our league fees as already stated but we have not had any surprise fees jump out at us.

I don't have a problem with the fundraiser. I could have dressed my dd in her uniform and sold the flowers fairly easily- but I have 4 kids and I'm too busy and I gladly wrote a $100 check so I didn't have to deal with it.

These fees that you mentioned do not exist. How many years ago did your dd play for LP?

by go99 30/03/12, 08:22 am

Life must be nice. I have never gladly wrote a $100 check to anybody. There are much better ways for the club to make money than a forced "fundraiser". Shows a lack of ideas

by Bierluva 30/03/12, 08:41 am

coachr wrote:
Bierluva wrote:
sickofit wrote:I have been part of various clubs with my kids. Liverpool is by far the worst. Yes, they pay their coaches the most...and give them some training (others do too)...but it is all at the expense of the parents. They are not looking out for the kids. They are soley looking out for themselves and their ability to get the most coaches and the most money for their club. Liverpool acts like a greedy franchise. If they were really a football club, they wouldn't be sitting with multiple teams in a single age group with 2/3 of them looking for players. I have never been so dissatisfied with a soccer club. As for the fund raiser...what a bunch of crap! I'd love to know whose brother owns the landscaping company....

Better pay, better coaches (typically). Like in most businesses, they want their employees to improve. Why not help them pay for their training? Some companies pay 50% to 100% if you successfully pass a certification or earn a higher level degree... as long as you stay with the company so the can recoup that "cost". I am sure it is the same way at the club. Tuition reimbursement was a reason why I chose to work for a company... why wouldn't a coach look to Liverpool if they can further their education while at the club? Why wouldn't you want your coach with a D license to go for the C and then all the way up to A? It is better for the club and it is better for the most important part... the player. How do businesses pay for this? From the money that they make from their customer or clients. Hey, guess what peeps... you are the customer or clients. So yeah... you are paying for it. Surprise.

How could they not be looking out for the kids? If this really young club starts producing great players and helps them get into higher levels of play... how is that not looking out for the kids? Some new programs just started within the last year to help players improve themselves and also have the opportunity to work with DIV I, II, III, and NAIA coaches. Awesome curricula has been written to make sure all coaches are on the same page and teaching soccer the Liverpool way. The College Advisory board is another great thing. Few clubs have one... actually do any other clubs have a College Advisory Board (I don't know really)?

Without the kids, there is no club. I scoured the boards and notice a lot of teams from other clubs looking for players. Yes, I posted for some time for our team, but I see a lot from a few other clubs. EVERYONE is always looking for players. That seems to be the nature of Academy soccer. So I don't know where you are getting your 2/3s number...

Basically, no business or organization can make EVERYONE happy. Apparently, sickofit, wasn't the right fit. It happens.
You must have "Merseyside" tattooed on your forehead.
You may be sick of it but I'm fed up. I can't be dealing with this.

No, but I have USMC tattooed on my arm! Smile

by Bierluva 30/03/12, 08:43 am

Androfan wrote:
Bierluva wrote:
sickofit wrote:I have been part of various clubs with my kids. Liverpool is by far the worst. Yes, they pay their coaches the most...and give them some training (others do too)...but it is all at the expense of the parents. They are not looking out for the kids. They are soley looking out for themselves and their ability to get the most coaches and the most money for their club. Liverpool acts like a greedy franchise. If they were really a football club, they wouldn't be sitting with multiple teams in a single age group with 2/3 of them looking for players. I have never been so dissatisfied with a soccer club. As for the fund raiser...what a bunch of crap! I'd love to know whose brother owns the landscaping company....

Better pay, better coaches (typically). Like in most businesses, they want their employees to improve. Why not help them pay for their training? Some companies pay 50% to 100% if you successfully pass a certification or earn a higher level degree... as long as you stay with the company so the can recoup that "cost". I am sure it is the same way at the club. Tuition reimbursement was a reason why I chose to work for a company... why wouldn't a coach look to Liverpool if they can further their education while at the club? Why wouldn't you want your coach with a D license to go for the C and then all the way up to A? It is better for the club and it is better for the most important part... the player. How do businesses pay for this? From the money that they make from their customer or clients. Hey, guess what peeps... you are the customer or clients. So yeah... you are paying for it. Surprise.

How could they not be looking out for the kids? If this really young club starts producing great players and helps them get into higher levels of play... how is that not looking out for the kids? Some new programs just started within the last year to help players improve themselves and also have the opportunity to work with DIV I, II, III, and NAIA coaches. Awesome curricula has been written to make sure all coaches are on the same page and teaching soccer the Liverpool way. The College Advisory board is another great thing. Few clubs have one... actually do any other clubs have a College Advisory Board (I don't know really)?

Without the kids, there is no club. I scoured the boards and notice a lot of teams from other clubs looking for players. Yes, I posted for some time for our team, but I see a lot from a few other clubs. EVERYONE is always looking for players. That seems to be the nature of Academy soccer. So I don't know where you are getting your 2/3s number...

Basically, no business or organization can make EVERYONE happy. Apparently, sickofit, wasn't the right fit. It happens.

Is there a policy in place that requires the coaches to partake in the career advancement? As with most employers that offer it, it is not mandatory and in most cases only cover a portion of the the cost. Does Liverpool take any action to "prod" that coach who has sat stale with the same D license for the last 3 years to move and improve?

If all that is taking place and they are mandating their coaches to improve then kuddos to Liverpool. Anyone noticed the coaches profiles updating with newly attained coaching licenses and courses attended? Maybe that is a page they could add to their site... make things a bit more transparent to the consumer for this quickly expanding club.

Good question and a valid suggestion!

by sickofit 30/03/12, 08:55 am

glitterbeam wrote:
DDx3 wrote:Had a daughter that once played for LP. Great coaches and programs but all the fees really stunk. They had admin fees, fund raiser fees, extra skill fees, and etc. I would have rather them just charge me extra up front instead of hitting me with all the fees throughout the year.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about here. We pay $90 a month and have one fundraiser a year. We don't pay any of these fees that you mentioned for my dd on an LP team.
We pay our tournament fees and our league fees as already stated but we have not had any surprise fees jump out at us.

I don't have a problem with the fundraiser. I could have dressed my dd in her uniform and sold the flowers fairly easily- but I have 4 kids and I'm too busy and I gladly wrote a $100 check so I didn't have to deal with it.

These fees that you mentioned do not exist. How many years ago did your dd play for LP?

Ma'am with all due respect...you are wrong. Your manager must be adding it in with tournament fees and not telling your team. There is a $9.00 (not a lot of money..but annoying) semester admin fee that every player pays.

I'm glad you are happy in your oblivion...4 kids can be difficult to keep track of it all.

As for league and tournament fees...at some of the other clubs you don't pay for those...they are part of the $90.00/month that's why its so noticable to people who come to Liverpool from other clubs.

by Guest 30/03/12, 09:00 am

Yawn, 9 bucks. You have to understand these types like sickofit. They are the don quixotes of the world, seeing conspiracies in everything ,railing against small fees, feeling persecuted etc....

by glitterbeam 30/03/12, 09:05 am

Oh that? Yeah I know about that. It's clearly stated though in the academy financial document.

We have the $9 fee twice a year, the one fundraiser a year, and I don't have any extra skill fees. It's a small price for me to pay for the quality coaching DD gets and the programs Liverpool has.

I said I gladly wrote the $100 check because I am glad anytime there is a way for me to pay out of doing a fundraiser and sometimes there isn't.

DD's coach recently did a licensing course and I thought he had to pay for it himself. I'm glad if Liverpool paid for it. I want dd to get the best coaching possible and I hope Liverpool pays for him to go all the way to the A license.

I seriously don't see the big deal about anything anyone has said in this thread. Like someone else said it's fairly easy to sell the flowers with your dd in her cute uniform and have leftover money in your tourney account.

by Texdad 30/03/12, 09:27 am

glitterbeam wrote:Oh that? Yeah I know about that. It's clearly stated though in the academy financial document.

We have the $9 fee twice a year, the one fundraiser a year, and I don't have any extra skill fees. It's a small price for me to pay for the quality coaching DD gets and the programs Liverpool has.

I said I gladly wrote the $100 check because I am glad anytime there is a way for me to pay out of doing a fundraiser and sometimes there isn't.

DD's coach recently did a licensing course and I thought he had to pay for it himself. I'm glad if Liverpool paid for it. I want dd to get the best coaching possible and I hope Liverpool pays for him to go all the way to the A license.

I seriously don't see the big deal about anything anyone has said in this thread. Like someone else said it's fairly easy to sell the flowers with your dd in her cute uniform and have leftover money in your tourney account.

Many of us have multiple kids playing multiple sports. Fundraisers are a beating of the highest order for most of us. To force someone to pay $100 if they don't have the time to sell flowers door to door is absurd. If Liverpool wants to scholarship players, the club should pay for it.
There are much better fundraisers out there such as earning a percentage of profits at Chic-Fil-A, Hawaiian Falls, etc.
Those type of fundraisers can still earn good money without alienating all of your families.

by Uncle Numanga 30/03/12, 09:45 am

Bierluva wrote: The College Advisory board is another great thing. Few clubs have one... actually do any other clubs have a College Advisory Board (I don't know really)?

There isn't one Liverpool girl committed from the 94, 95 or 96 age groups. What exactly does the College Advisory Board do? Most clubs leave that responsibility to the team's coach. They know the player better than anyone. College recruiting has to do with connections and having the colleges know who they are talking to when a club calls on behalf of a player. Maybe some day Liverpool will have that type of respect but it ain't now and not being in ECNL is going to hurt even more.

If you're going to pay that kind of money, do it with a club that can get results.

by Magic! 30/03/12, 09:54 am

My experience is that fundraisers that funnel $ directly back to the player is the only fair practice. You and your dd can make that decision to participate. It is not the parents job to pay for a coach's training...seems like we have it so backwards here in the US. The coach's should be competing with each other to draw the best talent by improving themselves. And while skill sessions are great, paying for privates seems crazy - your dd should be getting all she needs from her coach in practice...if not, you should consider making a change. my $.02

by copa44 30/03/12, 10:01 am

Master Bates wrote:You dont HAVE to do it

You're right, you don't. However if you don't it "reflects poorly on your coach" (response from LP to a parent who refused to participate). It also makes you look like an ass to the rest of the team. If my kid can sell 10 flats, and the kid who joined a week after the fundraiser started can sell 10 flats, and all the rest of the kids on the team can sell 10 flats then your refusal to support it makes it pretty apparent you don't support your team. For kids who don't support their team it's not a stretch for the team not to support the kid - it shows a lack of commitment.
For the record I can't stand fundraisers but this one is actually a pretty easy one. The product is good, it's something many people need now anyway, the price is competitive, and it's delivered to your door so you don't have to schlep down to Home Depot to pick it up and get dirt all over your car. As others have said LP could just roll it into fees and not do fundraisers, however I know some parents on my team welcomed the opportunity to offset some of their fees with the fundraising dollars, they appreciate $90 vs $100 a month.

by Magic! 30/03/12, 10:14 am

I hear ya Copa44 and totally understand your point. I guess I'm just saying that we all have choices...clubs like LP are marketing machines where it's can be more about sheer numbers than quality product on the pitch...all expenses are passed to the parents. And as far as questioning a player's committment due to low sales volumes, it just rubs me wrong. I want my dd committed to developing and loving the game...not the almighty "club", who at the end of the day tends to create super team anyway. Admit it or not, parents are forced to play a game within these clubs to position our dd's as "committed". The whole process is bassckwards compared to the rest of the other soccer environments.

by Magic! 30/03/12, 10:16 am

I meant to say **overall quality** LP has some very talented teams

by Shelby427 30/03/12, 10:17 am

Personally, I agree with doing fundraisers that don't involve my kid selling stuff. Between all of the school fundraisers my kid is going to be able to list 8 years of door to door/bug-your-friends-and-family-to-death sales experience by the time they are a senior in high school. This is a perfect setup for a career in multi-level marketing.

Also, LP is charging more or as much as clubs who have entire teams committed to colleges by end of their junior year in high school. So in many ways that have an inferior product when it comes to select still they are growing. They know how to sell as I said before.

But who knows, perhaps their strategy for national recognition is to simply outsize all of the other clubs... something they are well on their way to doing.

Coming soon...

"Liverpool... largest soccer club in the United States". Boom... instant national recognition.

It is interesting how they are able to break into a market having less prestige yet charging as much or more. Usually a company breaking in will offer more for less to establish and grow. Doesn't seem they have to.

by Texdad 30/03/12, 10:22 am

copa44 wrote:
Master Bates wrote:You dont HAVE to do it

You're right, you don't. However if you don't it "reflects poorly on your coach" (response from LP to a parent who refused to participate). It also makes you look like an ass to the rest of the team. If my kid can sell 10 flats, and the kid who joined a week after the fundraiser started can sell 10 flats, and all the rest of the kids on the team can sell 10 flats then your refusal to support it makes it pretty apparent you don't support your team. For kids who don't support their team it's not a stretch for the team not to support the kid - it shows a lack of commitment.
For the record I can't stand fundraisers but this one is actually a pretty easy one. The product is good, it's something many people need now anyway, the price is competitive, and it's delivered to your door so you don't have to schlep down to Home Depot to pick it up and get dirt all over your car. As others have said LP could just roll it into fees and not do fundraisers, however I know some parents on my team welcomed the opportunity to offset some of their fees with the fundraising dollars, they appreciate $90 vs $100 a month.

Your joking right? So if your kid doesn't sell flowers, your team considers you an ass? So if you don't sell flowers your kid isn't committed to the team?
I bet you just scared away quite a few potential Liverpool prospects with that attitude.
I signed my kid up to learn how to become a good soccer player, not to learn how to sell door to door.
If the money was going directly back to your team, the families would be more committed to it. But I really have no desire to help some coach of a 96 boys team pay for his license or pay for scholarship players on some other team in a different age group.

by Magic! 30/03/12, 10:26 am

Texdad wrote:
copa44 wrote:
Master Bates wrote:You dont HAVE to do it

You're right, you don't. However if you don't it "reflects poorly on your coach" (response from LP to a parent who refused to participate). It also makes you look like an ass to the rest of the team. If my kid can sell 10 flats, and the kid who joined a week after the fundraiser started can sell 10 flats, and all the rest of the kids on the team can sell 10 flats then your refusal to support it makes it pretty apparent you don't support your team. For kids who don't support their team it's not a stretch for the team not to support the kid - it shows a lack of commitment.
For the record I can't stand fundraisers but this one is actually a pretty easy one. The product is good, it's something many people need now anyway, the price is competitive, and it's delivered to your door so you don't have to schlep down to Home Depot to pick it up and get dirt all over your car. As others have said LP could just roll it into fees and not do fundraisers, however I know some parents on my team welcomed the opportunity to offset some of their fees with the fundraising dollars, they appreciate $90 vs $100 a month.

Your joking right? So if your kid doesn't sell flowers, your team considers you an ass? So if you don't sell flowers your kid isn't committed to the team?
I bet you just scared away quite a few potential Liverpool prospects with that attitude.
I signed my kid up to learn how to become a good soccer player, not to learn how to sell door to door.
If the money was going directly back to your team, the families would be more committed to it. But I really have no desire to help some coach of a 96 boys team pay for his license or pay for scholarship players on some other team in a different age group.

Yahtzee!

by Pinnochio 30/03/12, 10:40 am

How exactly is this different from other clubs charging a random club dues fee that all of the players pay? For the top clubs some of that money is being used to scholarship the players on their boys academy teams and also pay for the coaches of those academy teams. At least the LP fundraiser money is going for coaching development.

by RoidRage 30/03/12, 10:50 am

108 total teams x 12 players a team x $100(minimum contribution) equals

$130,000 and that's only an school of 12 players a team.
I wonder if they provide a copy of accounting spreadsheet of what this really for a to...upon request?

by Guest 30/03/12, 10:52 am

"You're right, you don't. However if you don't it "reflects poorly on your coach" (response from LP to a parent who refused to participate). It also makes you look like an ass to the rest of the team. If my kid can sell 10 flats, and the kid who joined a week after the fundraiser started can sell 10 flats, and all the rest of the kids on the team can sell 10 flats then your refusal to support it makes it pretty apparent you don't support your team. For kids who don't support their team it's not a stretch for the team not to support the kid - it shows a lack of commitment. "

sorry buddy this is academy, you are under no obligation to do any fundraising, just say no. the coach probably could care less. btw this goes to LP not your "team".

by go99 30/03/12, 11:03 am

seems like there is a fairly easy solution. Some people seem quite happy to do the "fundraiser" or pay the extra buyout fee. So those that are can just continue doing so. Doing something for my team or coach, count me in. Coach needs equipment for the girls? Sure! Coach wants to take a class to get better for the team? Done! Birthday or christmas present for the coach for being a kick ass coach? count me in! A donation to get LP into the ECNL? Hell I will even bite on that. My DD's coach doesn't need my help with his reflection, his work speaks for it's self. As far as being an ass goes, check the avatar I am quite good at that.

by RoidRage 30/03/12, 11:07 am

go99 wrote:seems like there is a fairly easy solution. Some people seem quite happy to do the "fundraiser" or pay the extra buyout fee. So those that are can just continue doing so. Doing something for my team or coach, count me in. Coach needs equipment for the girls? Sure! Coach wants to take a class to get better for the team? Done! Birthday or christmas present for the coach for being a kick ass coach? count me in! A donation to get LP into the ECNL? Hell I will even bite on that. My DD's coach doesn't need my help with his reflection, his work speaks for it's self. As far as being an ass goes, check the avatar I am quite good at that.

Exactly how I feel about the matter.

by OutsideThe18 30/03/12, 11:07 am

sickofit wrote:I have been part of various clubs with my kids. Liverpool is by far the worst. Yes, they pay their coaches the most...and give them some training (others do too)...but it is all at the expense of the parents. They are not looking out for the kids. They are soley looking out for themselves and their ability to get the most coaches and the most money for their club. Liverpool acts like a greedy franchise. If they were really a football club, they wouldn't be sitting with multiple teams in a single age group with 2/3 of them looking for players. I have never been so dissatisfied with a soccer club. As for the fund raiser...what a bunch of crap! I'd love to know whose brother owns the landscaping company....

Okay, I'm going to get drawn offsides on this one. Dude, of course it's at the expense of the parents!! It's a business and you are paying for coaching. If you don't want your coach to get better go back to rec. Pay your $60/season for field usage, sweet kits and "SuperStar" team name. You sound like a bitter bitter person that feels like someone OWES you something for signing your kid up to play soccer. Also, I promise you that every club, every one of them, has multiple teams in multiple age groups that are looking for players. Quit focusing on what other people are getting and focus on what you're getting. If you don't like it---LEAVE.

by Magic! 30/03/12, 11:08 am

Location: Standing next to Kat yelling. Making people think its her.

giggle

by Exitmiester 30/03/12, 11:27 am

Uncle Numanga, Your information about Liverpool 94 players is incorrect. The club has 11 committed players to play college soccer next year. While they are not Division 1 programs they are important to the players attending these programs.All Liverpool 94 girls players ( 94 and 94 Red ) that wanted to play in college have found a home.

The Board was instrumental in the signing of 3 of these players.

FYI

by soccerpop76 30/03/12, 11:38 am

I didn't mention the club name in my posting, but only Liverpool parents and coaches on the defensive. Wow...feeling a little guilty about something?

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