Tournament Fee Question

Bicycle Guru-NOT wrote:

4eversoccer wrote:@ inthenet - you are correct. Posting on here did not help the situation, and was not appreciated. This was made clear when I was told "Having an issue or questions and bringing them up is one thing. Doing it the way you did only fosters dissension. It may have been forgivable if it had been left at that. Unfortunately, you chose to blog this issue and invite the entire metroplex to get involved (there is no anonymity). Right or wrong, your approach is unforgivable and I won't allow your pettiness on the team."

@ newtothis - my daughter is a select player, not academy.

To the many who've asked me to expose them, I've thought about it and am angry enough to do so, but it would only prove the coach right...that I am "what I (he) suspected you (I) were capable of in the first place."

I have not mentioned the club, the team, the coach, the manager, or even the age group. Whether or not I handled this the right way no longer matters. My character and integrity was assassinated by the coach when my e-mail directly to our team manager was forwarded to both coaches, the Club Director and his wife (also a team manager). The curteous and professional explaination i was looking for did come from the other team manager, but it was too late. By then, many hurtful things were said, and my daughter was told she will never play for them again. I can't fault the club, as I said, we were happy there and my daughter wanted to return.

I think everyone can understand your concerns and desire to take the high road. I personally don't believe your original post was negative or voiced in an accusatory tone, you were simply asking for input regarding a specific situation without exposing any team, club, or coach. However, as mentioned by someone earlier as a select player you and the other players not "invited" to the tournament do have a contract and contracts are a 2 way street. You might consider getting with the other non-invited players and filing a greivance with NTX soccer. If the coach is, for all intents and purposes, cutting players prior to June 30 he is violating several NTX soccer and USYSA bylaws. As for saying who this coach and club are I won't try and tell you what you should do (honestly not sure what I would do) but a coach like this and a club that would support such a coach need to be exposed to save other players from getting involved in this situation. Don't think a coach should have his own child on his team above the rec level as it is a conflict of interest, but that is a different discussion

4eversoccer wrote:

I think everyone can understand your concerns and desire to take the high road. I personally don't believe your original post was negative or voiced in an accusatory tone, you were simply asking for input regarding a specific situation without exposing any team, club, or coach. However, as mentioned by someone earlier as a select player you and the other players not "invited" to the tournament do have a contract and contracts are a 2 way street. You might consider getting with the other non-invited players and filing a greivance with NTX soccer. If the coach is, for all intents and purposes, cutting players prior to June 30 he is violating several NTX soccer and USYSA bylaws. As for saying who this coach and club are I won't try and tell you what you should do (honestly not sure what I would do) but a coach like this and a club that would support such a coach need to be exposed to save other players from getting involved in this situation. Don't think a coach should have his own child on his team above the rec level as it is a conflict of interest, but that is a different discussion

To clarify, my daughter was one of the members chosen to go to both tournaments in May and June - she was a keeper. I was unaware that the coach had any grievances with me personally until this happened. I do not believe her position on the team was in question until I made this post. I believed this forum was to share observations, opinions and information. I didn't know posting could jeopardize her position or contract renawal.

4eversoccer wrote:

I think everyone can understand your concerns and desire to take the high road. I personally don't believe your original post was negative or voiced in an accusatory tone, you were simply asking for input regarding a specific situation without exposing any team, club, or coach. However, as mentioned by someone earlier as a select player you and the other players not "invited" to the tournament do have a contract and contracts are a 2 way street. You might consider getting with the other non-invited players and filing a greivance with NTX soccer. If the coach is, for all intents and purposes, cutting players prior to June 30 he is violating several NTX soccer and USYSA bylaws. As for saying who this coach and club are I won't try and tell you what you should do (honestly not sure what I would do) but a coach like this and a club that would support such a coach need to be exposed to save other players from getting involved in this situation. Don't think a coach should have his own child on his team above the rec level as it is a conflict of interest, but that is a different discussion

To clarify, my daughter was one of the members chosen to go to both tournaments in May and June - she was a keeper. I was unaware that the coach had any grievances with me personally until this happened. I do not believe her position on the team was in question until I made this post. I believed this forum was to share observations, opinions and information. I didn't know posting could jeopardize her position or contract renawal.

4eversoccer wrote:@ Interpreter -

Yes, I can see how that could be perceived, but I did bring this up to the Team Manager first, then posted second. I was upset, didn't know the rules, and was given only a vague explanation when I asked the first time.

The accusations from the coach came yesterday for the first time. I had no idea that he thought negative of me. I've never had a confrontation with him or the team manager about anything. I've never had it out with any parents. We only got to really know 2 sets of parents on that team, 1 girl was released in Jan/Feb, the other missed most of the spring season due to injury. To my knowledge, the 2nd girl was never released, but the coach accused me yesterday of telling her parents about her release because of a loud coversation he had a practice with the team manager that several parents overheard. I DID ask the parent if she was released, but was told no and even asked the team mgr as late as LAST Saturday how the girl was doing and if she was coming to the game or tournaments. As I said, we were friends. I am just as lost as you on why I've been accused of doing things I haven't done. And, no, I'm not taking it likely and am taking things under advisement. Please keep in mind that no conversations ever took place in person and everything was said in writing. I have tried to keep this as anonymous as possible to protect the club, the asst. coach and the girls & parents who have done nothing wrong and are innocent in this. This was never about my daughter, it was a personal attack against me. I'm a big girl and can take the criticism.

4eversoccer wrote:@ inthenet - you are correct. Posting on here did not help the situation, and was not appreciated. This was made clear when I was told "Having an issue or questions and bringing them up is one thing. Doing it the way you did only fosters dissension. It may have been forgivable if it had been left at that. Unfortunately, you chose to blog this issue and invite the entire metroplex to get involved (there is no anonymity). Right or wrong, your approach is unforgivable and I won't allow your pettiness on the team."

@ newtothis - my daughter is a select player, not academy.

To the many who've asked me to expose them, I've thought about it and am angry enough to do so, but it would only prove the coach right...that I am "what I (he) suspected you (I) were capable of in the first place."

I have not mentioned the club, the team, the coach, the manager, or even the age group. Whether or not I handled this the right way no longer matters. My character and integrity was assassinated by the coach when my e-mail directly to our team manager was forwarded to both coaches, the Club Director and his wife (also a team manager). The curteous and professional explaination i was looking for did come from the other team manager, but it was too late. By then, many hurtful things were said, and my daughter was told she will never play for them again. I can't fault the club, as I said, we were happy there and my daughter wanted to return.

4eversoccer wrote:@ Interpreter -

Yes, I can see how that could be perceived, but I did bring this up to the Team Manager first, then posted second. I was upset, didn't know the rules, and was given only a vague explanation when I asked the first time.

The accusations from the coach came yesterday for the first time. I had no idea that he thought negative of me. I've never had a confrontation with him or the team manager about anything. I've never had it out with any parents. We only got to really know 2 sets of parents on that team, 1 girl was released in Jan/Feb, the other missed most of the spring season due to injury. To my knowledge, the 2nd girl was never released, but the coach accused me yesterday of telling her parents about her release because of a loud coversation he had a practice with the team manager that several parents overheard. I DID ask the parent if she was released, but was told no and even asked the team mgr as late as LAST Saturday how the girl was doing and if she was coming to the game or tournaments. As I said, we were friends. I am just as lost as you on why I've been accused of doing things I haven't done. And, no, I'm not taking it likely and am taking things under advisement. Please keep in mind that no conversations ever took place in person and everything was said in writing. I have tried to keep this as anonymous as possible to protect the club, the asst. coach and the girls & parents who have done nothing wrong and are innocent in this. This was never about my daughter, it was a personal attack against me. I'm a big girl and can take the criticism.

inthenet wrote: “Your question was a legitimate one, although it can create a bad situation when asked on a board like this and then people start making the accusations that the coach and manager are trying to screw the team.”

“I would resist the temptation to "out" anyone on this board. Sometimes there is a bit of a mob mentality that loves this sort of thing. I believe its part of what caused your problem, as some of the responses to your legitimate question were essentially that the coach is screwing the parents of your team.”

Its Me wrote:I believe that this forum should be a place you can ask questions about select/academy situations. I've had kids in select for 5 or 6 years and the first time I heard that we had to pay for our coaches room and meals I was shocked. So, I think your question was fair and this should be the correct spot to answer questions.

bigtex75081 wrote:

inthenet wrote: “Your question was a legitimate one, although it can create a bad situation when asked on a board like this and then people start making the accusations that the coach and manager are trying to screw the team.”

“I would resist the temptation to "out" anyone on this board. Sometimes there is a bit of a mob mentality that loves this sort of thing. I believe its part of what caused your problem, as some of the responses to your legitimate question were essentially that the coach is screwing the parents of your team.”

Inthenet – Why have you blamed this forum for the actions of this coach a couple times in this string?

Its Me wrote:I believe that this forum should be a place you can ask questions about select/academy situations. I've had kids in select for 5 or 6 years and the first time I heard that we had to pay for our coaches room and meals I was shocked. So, I think your question was fair and this should be the correct spot to answer questions.

I agree with Its Me, this is exactly the place for this type of question.

If you go to a mechanic that you start to become suspicious of (Repairs always cost more than originally quoted, they use high-level jargon that’s confusing while explaining issues, the repairs don’t seem to be made correctly, new issues are appearing too often) what would you do? Would you continually go back to the same mechanic and privately ask, “Are you cheating me?” Or would you go to someone you know that’s knowledgeable about cars and ask for their opinion?

If you ever have a suspicion that somebody is trying to cheat you, they probably are. If you don’t know, ask somebody (or a group of people) that may have relevant experience that can give feedback based on their experience. 4eversoccer asked a question. There is nothing wrong with asking a question in hopes of seeking advice.

inthenet wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:

inthenet wrote: “Your question was a legitimate one, although it can create a bad situation when asked on a board like this and then people start making the accusations that the coach and manager are trying to screw the team.”

“I would resist the temptation to "out" anyone on this board. Sometimes there is a bit of a mob mentality that loves this sort of thing. I believe its part of what caused your problem, as some of the responses to your legitimate question were essentially that the coach is screwing the parents of your team.”

Inthenet – Why have you blamed this forum for the actions of this coach a couple times in this string?

Its Me wrote:I believe that this forum should be a place you can ask questions about select/academy situations. I've had kids in select for 5 or 6 years and the first time I heard that we had to pay for our coaches room and meals I was shocked. So, I think your question was fair and this should be the correct spot to answer questions.

I agree with Its Me, this is exactly the place for this type of question.

If you go to a mechanic that you start to become suspicious of (Repairs always cost more than originally quoted, they use high-level jargon that’s confusing while explaining issues, the repairs don’t seem to be made correctly, new issues are appearing too often) what would you do? Would you continually go back to the same mechanic and privately ask, “Are you cheating me?” Or would you go to someone you know that’s knowledgeable about cars and ask for their opinion?

If you ever have a suspicion that somebody is trying to cheat you, they probably are. If you don’t know, ask somebody (or a group of people) that may have relevant experience that can give feedback based on their experience. 4eversoccer asked a question. There is nothing wrong with asking a question in hopes of seeking advice.

I have, since the beginning, said the coach was in the wrong. However, I think you were one of the ones that, with little information, made the leap to:

5. The players that are the DDs of the coaches should pay the tournament fee.

It's the last bullet that irks me because, if they do not pay like everyone else, the coaches are really using this new fee as a way to supplement their income. (By not spending money that they receive benefits from, that's bonus $$$.)

The only way that last bullet is acceptable to me is if the coaches waived their salary for the past year. Did they waive their salaries? If so, then you should help them out as a thank you. If not, they're just using the families to squeeze a little more money out of you all.

I can understand that the coach could be irritated over being accused of being a thief, or supplementing his income this way, when you have no real reason to believe that's what he's done. I don't, for one minute, defend the coach's actions, but I'm also enough of a realist to know that we're hearing one side of the story.

I've been around long enough to know that there are some major jerk managers and coaches in NTX. However, if you were to read this board from an uninformed outsiders point of view, I might come away with the opinion that the clubs and coaches are all crooked and have one goal in mind, and that's to fleece as much money as is possible from unsuspecting families, and that the leagues and officials are all basically incompetent.

There are examples of all of the above in NTX. However, I'm one that doesn't believe its the norm. I choose to wait until I've seen a little more detail that that in 4eversoccer's first post before I'd call the coach a thief.

Just my opinion.

bigtex75081 wrote:It's my opinion that we, as consumers of NTX Soccer, need to work together to help one another to improve the system we utilize. If you've noted the posts I've made in the past (like this one, https://www.txsoccer.net/t9147-select-soccer-and-select-money) I've been consistent about that. We need to help each other. When we sit individually, and don't ask the tough questions, we ultimately negatively impact one another.

bigtex75081 wrote:

inthenet wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:

inthenet wrote: “Your question was a legitimate one, although it can create a bad situation when asked on a board like this and then people start making the accusations that the coach and manager are trying to screw the team.”

“I would resist the temptation to "out" anyone on this board. Sometimes there is a bit of a mob mentality that loves this sort of thing. I believe its part of what caused your problem, as some of the responses to your legitimate question were essentially that the coach is screwing the parents of your team.”

Inthenet – Why have you blamed this forum for the actions of this coach a couple times in this string?

Its Me wrote:I believe that this forum should be a place you can ask questions about select/academy situations. I've had kids in select for 5 or 6 years and the first time I heard that we had to pay for our coaches room and meals I was shocked. So, I think your question was fair and this should be the correct spot to answer questions.

I agree with Its Me, this is exactly the place for this type of question.

If you go to a mechanic that you start to become suspicious of (Repairs always cost more than originally quoted, they use high-level jargon that’s confusing while explaining issues, the repairs don’t seem to be made correctly, new issues are appearing too often) what would you do? Would you continually go back to the same mechanic and privately ask, “Are you cheating me?” Or would you go to someone you know that’s knowledgeable about cars and ask for their opinion?

If you ever have a suspicion that somebody is trying to cheat you, they probably are. If you don’t know, ask somebody (or a group of people) that may have relevant experience that can give feedback based on their experience. 4eversoccer asked a question. There is nothing wrong with asking a question in hopes of seeking advice.

I have, since the beginning, said the coach was in the wrong. However, I think you were one of the ones that, with little information, made the leap to:

5. The players that are the DDs of the coaches should pay the tournament fee.

It's the last bullet that irks me because, if they do not pay like everyone else, the coaches are really using this new fee as a way to supplement their income. (By not spending money that they receive benefits from, that's bonus $$$.)

The only way that last bullet is acceptable to me is if the coaches waived their salary for the past year. Did they waive their salaries? If so, then you should help them out as a thank you. If not, they're just using the families to squeeze a little more money out of you all.

I can understand that the coach could be irritated over being accused of being a thief, or supplementing his income this way, when you have no real reason to believe that's what he's done. I don't, for one minute, defend the coach's actions, but I'm also enough of a realist to know that we're hearing one side of the story.

I've been around long enough to know that there are some major jerk managers and coaches in NTX. However, if you were to read this board from an uninformed outsiders point of view, I might come away with the opinion that the clubs and coaches are all crooked and have one goal in mind, and that's to fleece as much money as is possible from unsuspecting families, and that the leagues and officials are all basically incompetent.

There are examples of all of the above in NTX. However, I'm one that doesn't believe its the norm. I choose to wait until I've seen a little more detail that that in 4eversoccer's first post before I'd call the coach a thief.

Just my opinion.

I understand your sentiments. "There is always 3 sides to every story. Your side, their side and the TRUTH." But this forum didn't cause the issues we're discussing, it only brought those issues to light.

It's my opinion that we, as consumers of NTX Soccer, need to work together to help one another to improve the system we utilize. If you've noted the posts I've made in the past (like this one, https://www.txsoccer.net/t9147-select-soccer-and-select-money) I've been consistent about that. We need to help each other. When we sit individually, and don't ask the tough questions, we ultimately negatively impact one another.

skippy wrote:Reading this story just makes my blood boil! We have a young girl who has done NOTHING wrong and now is told she can't play????? I am so sorry to hear this. My hope is that you can find her a good fit on a new team and that you all will be able to put this behind you.

The one thing that comes to mind though is about accountability. We moved here from another state a few years back and I served as either a team manager or a team treasurer on my kids' teams. Our club would not allow the same person to be both the manager and treasurer. They required the treasurer to put together a pre season budget and present it to the team parents outlining estimated costs. The treasurer was required to provide a monthly player statement to each parent on the team. We were also required to provide a monthly team statement to the parents. IN addition, we had to give the club a semi-annual account reconciliation for the team, each player and provide bank statements. Any parent was encouraged to ask the treasurer or manager to see the books whenever they wanted. The coach never was involved with any financial issues unless a players family wasn't meeting their financial obligation to the team. Club fees were separate and the club handled these. The coach coached. The manager organized things and the treasurer provided the financials. The parents never had to worry about any shady financing because the clubs had a procedure in place that worked. By the way, the team manager and the team treasurer were strictly volunteers. Our kids did not get special rates either. We did it out of love and obligation to our kid's activities.

When we moved here, I was shocked at the financial secrecy. We never saw any statements and it was strongly implied that we were not to ask questions. The manager collected the money and we were never given any breakdown of where our money went. It turns out that when someone did finally speak up, the coach was handling the finances. The coach should never be in charge of team finances. I don't know if all clubs down here operate this way or not, but in my opinion, no club should tolerate any form of intimidation when it comes to asking questions relating to the team finances. There is no excuse for keeping secrets.

skippy wrote:Reading this story just makes my blood boil! We have a young girl who has done NOTHING wrong and now is told she can't play????? I am so sorry to hear this. My hope is that you can find her a good fit on a new team and that you all will be able to put this behind you.

The one thing that comes to mind though is about accountability. We moved here from another state a few years back and I served as either a team manager or a team treasurer on my kids' teams. Our club would not allow the same person to be both the manager and treasurer. They required the treasurer to put together a pre season budget and present it to the team parents outlining estimated costs. The treasurer was required to provide a monthly player statement to each parent on the team. We were also required to provide a monthly team statement to the parents. IN addition, we had to give the club a semi-annual account reconciliation for the team, each player and provide bank statements. Any parent was encouraged to ask the treasurer or manager to see the books whenever they wanted. The coach never was involved with any financial issues unless a players family wasn't meeting their financial obligation to the team. Club fees were separate and the club handled these. The coach coached. The manager organized things and the treasurer provided the financials. The parents never had to worry about any shady financing because the clubs had a procedure in place that worked. By the way, the team manager and the team treasurer were strictly volunteers. Our kids did not get special rates either. We did it out of love and obligation to our kid's activities.

When we moved here, I was shocked at the financial secrecy. We never saw any statements and it was strongly implied that we were not to ask questions. The manager collected the money and we were never given any breakdown of where our money went. It turns out that when someone did finally speak up, the coach was handling the finances. The coach should never be in charge of team finances. I don't know if all clubs down here operate this way or not, but in my opinion, no club should tolerate any form of intimidation when it comes to asking questions relating to the team finances. There is no excuse for keeping secrets.

butt3r wrote:

skippy wrote:Reading this story just makes my blood boil! We have a young girl who has done NOTHING wrong and now is told she can't play????? I am so sorry to hear this. My hope is that you can find her a good fit on a new team and that you all will be able to put this behind you.

The one thing that comes to mind though is about accountability. We moved here from another state a few years back and I served as either a team manager or a team treasurer on my kids' teams. Our club would not allow the same person to be both the manager and treasurer. They required the treasurer to put together a pre season budget and present it to the team parents outlining estimated costs. The treasurer was required to provide a monthly player statement to each parent on the team. We were also required to provide a monthly team statement to the parents. IN addition, we had to give the club a semi-annual account reconciliation for the team, each player and provide bank statements. Any parent was encouraged to ask the treasurer or manager to see the books whenever they wanted. The coach never was involved with any financial issues unless a players family wasn't meeting their financial obligation to the team. Club fees were separate and the club handled these. The coach coached. The manager organized things and the treasurer provided the financials. The parents never had to worry about any shady financing because the clubs had a procedure in place that worked. By the way, the team manager and the team treasurer were strictly volunteers. Our kids did not get special rates either. We did it out of love and obligation to our kid's activities.

When we moved here, I was shocked at the financial secrecy. We never saw any statements and it was strongly implied that we were not to ask questions. The manager collected the money and we were never given any breakdown of where our money went. It turns out that when someone did finally speak up, the coach was handling the finances. The coach should never be in charge of team finances. I don't know if all clubs down here operate this way or not, but in my opinion, no club should tolerate any form of intimidation when it comes to asking questions relating to the team finances. There is no excuse for keeping secrets.

I know my DDs team is run this way, Solar Monte 01. The coach, manager, and treasurer are all separate, so this scenario does occur here as well.

inthenet wrote:

Most teams have separate coach, manager, and treasurer. Frankly, its too much work for anyone to do more than one of those tasks at a time, and do it correctly.

I've never known a coach that wanted anything to do with money.

Its Me wrote:

4eversoccer wrote:@ inthenet - you are correct. Posting on here did not help the situation, and was not appreciated. This was made clear when I was told "Having an issue or questions and bringing them up is one thing. Doing it the way you did only fosters dissension. It may have been forgivable if it had been left at that. Unfortunately, you chose to blog this issue and invite the entire metroplex to get involved (there is no anonymity). Right or wrong, your approach is unforgivable and I won't allow your pettiness on the team."

@ newtothis - my daughter is a select player, not academy.

To the many who've asked me to expose them, I've thought about it and am angry enough to do so, but it would only prove the coach right...that I am "what I (he) suspected you (I) were capable of in the first place."

I have not mentioned the club, the team, the coach, the manager, or even the age group. Whether or not I handled this the right way no longer matters. My character and integrity was assassinated by the coach when my e-mail directly to our team manager was forwarded to both coaches, the Club Director and his wife (also a team manager). The curteous and professional explaination i was looking for did come from the other team manager, but it was too late. By then, many hurtful things were said, and my daughter was told she will never play for them again. I can't fault the club, as I said, we were happy there and my daughter wanted to return.

I believe that this forumn should be a place you can ask questions about select/academy situations. I've had kids in select for 5 or 6 years and the first time I heard that we had to pay for our coaches room and meals I was shocked. So, I think your question was fair and this should be the correct spot to answer questions.

However, in the future I would reread your post to verify that no one can identify you.
I would NOT mention the coach or team name. Just like you're doing, take the high road and mark this as experience.
Also, you don't want your DD going to the new team and parents talking about your post and marking you as a troublemaker. NTX soccer community is a smaller world.

Good luck and I'm sure you'll find a better team for your daughter.
Teams are always looking for good keepers.