Re: Running up the score and when is it ever appropriate

by 1more_dd_dad 07/05/12, 10:12 am

mamasoccer wrote:Regardless of why the team was in the silver division.. doesn't really matter. They should have held the score down.

From what I understood from the sidelines.. the goalie for the losing team was not there this weekend. The back up goalie was hurt in the earlier game, maybe early in this game not sure, and this was the back up to the back up. I agree she COULD have been taken out but to put someone back there with no experience at taking shots may not have been the best solution either. You don't want them to get hurt. This team was shooting and shooting hard..

Funny but my 04's team has never practiced holding the score down either but the very first time it happened.. the coach told them to turn it off, no shots on goal, only pass and they did it.. no confusion. No questions asked. They just did it. They may have lost the ball a time or two in the process but they were clearly in command and got the ball back anyway. If an 04 team can do it then certainly an 02 team can, too. It is ludicrous to think that they do not have the skill at this age to stop shooting and start passing the ball. They are not mindless scoring machines. It is also silly to think the coach couldn't make some changes to the line up, moving players, taking out a player... to slow the scoring down.

I understand you taking the opposing view, I agree the goalie could have been taken out.. but the entire team was being pummeled not just the goalie. I am sure it affected them all..

I do not like running up the score any more than any one else but... When you take coaching classes, not NTX classes but National classes, (I have two from different two different certification bodies), one will never hear or be taught to tell the kids to stop scoring. You are taught the opposite, do not tell them to stop, instead encourage pssing back, switching the attack, string together passes ect... Even when a coach moves girls out of position or plays his bench players when a game is out of hand what do you expect those girls to do? Bench players like to score and so do defenders, its a tough break but it's hard to tell a kid that doesn't play as much or rarely gets to attack not to score. When parents make the coice to put thier kids in "select" they need to be prepared for things like this....

by Referee 07/05/12, 10:39 am

Mama; Your team lost 12-0, 6-0 and 4-3. Didn't win or tie a single game. The only team with no wins or ties.
This was 10 year old girls vs 10 year old girls . No bullying there. This is competition. 2 years ago Sting was on the other end and was been killed 14-0, 10-0. But you never blame the other team. Take it in stride and understand that these are two different levels. Sting did show sportmanship and started passing after 8 goals. But your team just stood there in the back field and watched. The girls had no choice but to shoot here and there. It would've been 20-0. F C Dallas is a great group and to have a team like yours is surprising. If you're going to have that kind of thinking here in the tough competitive world of soccer, then maybe you should take your kid to the local Y for fair play and a less competitive environment.

by bigtex75081 07/05/12, 10:40 am

This string reminds me of a game I saw 2 years ago. Some of you may have been at the same game because it was the championship game for the u13 division for the Dallas Cup at Pizza Hut Park in 2010. It was between two teams from the same club out of California. It was LAFC against LAFC Black. The final was 7:0 and it was only that close because the LAFC coach instructed his players to stop scoring. The only reason I remember the game is because of how horrible it looked when the team that was winning stopped trying to score.

After LAFC was told to stop scoring they would still easily take the ball through the LAFC Black’s defense. But because they weren’t allowed to finish, the forward would send the ball 60 yards backwards through the air to the center defender to start it all up again. (LAFC probably did that act 3-5 times.) It was terrible to watch because even though the LAFC coach intended it to be good sportsmanship between his team and another team in his club, it was tremendously disrespectful. They were just toying with the other team, making them look inadequate.

At first, the parents from LAFC Black around me started to complain between themselves. Then they started to complain aloud. After a while I even heard a couple folks booing.

It was a horrible game to watch. Nobody there (players, fans) had any fun while that was going on. By not trying their best, LAFC was extremely disrespectful of LAFC Black that day.

by Gunner9 07/05/12, 10:46 am

bigtex75081 wrote:This string reminds me of a game I saw 2 years ago. Some of you may have been at the same game because it was the championship game for the u13 division for the Dallas Cup at Pizza Hut Park in 2010. It was between two teams from the same club out of California. It was LAFC against LAFC Black. The final was 7:0 and it was only that close because the LAFC coach instructed his players to stop scoring. The only reason I remember the game is because of how horrible it looked when the team that was winning stopped trying to score.

After LAFC was told to stop scoring they would still easily take the ball through the LAFC Black’s defense. But because they weren’t allowed to finish, the forward would send the ball 60 yards backwards through the air to the center defender to start it all up again. (LAFC probably did that act 3-5 times.) It was terrible to watch because even though the LAFC coach intended it to be good sportsmanship between his team and another team in his club, it was tremendously disrespectful. They were just toying with the other team, making them look inadequate.

At first, the parents from LAFC Black around me started to complain between themselves. Then they started to complain aloud. After a while I even heard a couple folks booing.

It was a horrible game to watch. Nobody there (players, fans) had any fun while that was going on. By not trying their best, LAFC was extremely disrespectful of LAFC Black that day.

That is disrespectful to both the opponent and the game. I don't think anyone is suggesting that as a proper course of action. I also don't think you can ask your team not to score. After all, it is the object of the game. However, I still think the dominant team's coach can use this scenario as a learning tool for his team to work on certain things and chances are the score will not roll up so high. I've done it.

by mamasoccer 07/05/12, 11:05 am

I guess it is never easy... I think there are graceful ways to win though..

And to Referee.. again.. my dd was not playing. We had the weekend off. Maybe it was worse just watching and not having any dd in the game to be able to go home and talk about it with them. I don't know it made me horribly uncomfortable though. We simply came out to watch some friends play on other teams in the tourney and I caught this game and was surprised as to how it was handled. I had not seen that type of run up since we had moved here so I wasn't sure what the NTX protocol was. I only know what my dd's teams have done to avoid something similar and in all instances my dd's coaches have made changes to the game plan to prevent such a run up.

And for someone that said it was tough to tell a bench player or a defensive player not to score when moved up. I had to do it. My 04 is a defender and in a run up they were told not to score.. the score was 9-0 at the time. She was moved to a forward position. She did come off the field upset because she was moved up and not allowed to score but I had the opportunity to talk with her about it, about why it might not be appropriate to score on them at that point, talk to her about sportmanship, etc. She seemed to be fine after we had a chat about it. So although may not be easy.. it can be done.

It is good to hear everyones thoughts. It is fine to remain divided on this issue.

by Its Me 07/05/12, 11:12 am

It's something that will never end. I've seen Qualifying tournaments whey a coach allowed 18 goals and Never told his kids to stop.
If you have to pull players off the field after you get a lead then do that. Even if you have to pull your team down to 9 players.

They're only kids. Unfortunately, this was the first time and probably not the last.
You see this type of post ever year.

by copa44 07/05/12, 11:20 am

I've been on both sides. My bb's 02 team played indoor and ended up against all rec teams, poor planning on our part but it is what it is. They had several games where the score started to run up - coach pulled the starters, switched the line-up, moved to a passing game, put our regular goalie and defenders up front and we still managed to score several more because the other team just quit. We discovered it was worse when we stopped trying to score and switched to passing the ball up and down the field. When we at least tried to score the other team stayed somewhat engaged. It wasn't fun for any of us, parents or kids, on either team - no one wants to win or lose that way.

My dd played indoor with a rec team that was in the academy league, again poor planning on the coach's part. We lost all our games, but most of the teams when they started to get ahead did what my bb's coach did and stopped going for an all out assault. One team did not - coach screamed at his girls (04) to keep scoring when they were up 15-0 - even pushed his goalie and defense up to play offense leaving them with an open net and us outnumbered since that gave them 5 forwards. It was brutal, our entire team was in tears. Worst part was the parents cheering every.single.goal they scored. Should we have been in that bracket? No, but the lack of sportsmanship of the other team was appalling.

by Frogfan1 07/05/12, 11:41 am

Its Me wrote:It's something that will never end. I've seen Qualifying tournaments whey a coach allowed 18 goals and Never told his kids to stop.
If you have to pull players off the field after you get a lead then do that. Even if you have to pull your team down to 9 players.

They're only kids. Unfortunately, this was the first time and probably not the last.
You see this type of post ever year.

We have pulled down to 8 players before.

by bigtex75081 07/05/12, 11:54 am

Frogfan1 wrote:We have pulled down to 8 players before.

Ugh... That's bad. Then you're not just beating an opponent but your punishing your players (and families) by not allowing them to play the game they're out there to play.

"We don't want you to score anymore goals on us but we don't want you to may us look stupid either." People that complain about these 'other' teams can't have it both ways. You can't bash a team for running up a score on you AND then keep bashing them when they do decide to put on the brakes and it turns the game into a practice and basically transforming a DD into cone to dribble around.

by justamomof2 07/05/12, 11:57 am

Shame on the coach and Primetime for allowing them to play in Silver. Both knew they had no business there...and I don't buy the excuse that this was their only option for getting an even number of teams in the bracket. The difference in abilities is the reason for two brackets.

by ballhead 07/05/12, 12:04 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:This string reminds me of a game I saw 2 years ago. Some of you may have been at the same game because it was the championship game for the u13 division for the Dallas Cup at Pizza Hut Park in 2010. It was between two teams from the same club out of California. It was LAFC against LAFC Black. The final was 7:0 and it was only that close because the LAFC coach instructed his players to stop scoring. The only reason I remember the game is because of how horrible it looked when the team that was winning stopped trying to score.

After LAFC was told to stop scoring they would still easily take the ball through the LAFC Black’s defense. But because they weren’t allowed to finish, the forward would send the ball 60 yards backwards through the air to the center defender to start it all up again. (LAFC probably did that act 3-5 times.) It was terrible to watch because even though the LAFC coach intended it to be good sportsmanship between his team and another team in his club, it was tremendously disrespectful. They were just toying with the other team, making them look inadequate.

At first, the parents from LAFC Black around me started to complain between themselves. Then they started to complain aloud. After a while I even heard a couple folks booing.

It was a horrible game to watch. Nobody there (players, fans) had any fun while that was going on. By not trying their best, LAFC was extremely disrespectful of LAFC Black that day.

Nobody likes a blowout, neither team. To say that its "extremely disrespectful" not to try their best is a little unrealistic. Defensive players and keepers can play offense and vice versa. You can create rules, i.e. minimum 3 passes before a shot, shots using other than the predominate foot, etc. that allows them to play and pass without continuing an unrelenting attack on a clearly inferior team.

When you're up 4, 5, or 6 goals, many starters ought to be resting, with the bench now on the field. The bench gets their shot at playing, and attacking, then drop into some tactics that allow them touches and work.

The implication that anything other than 100% attack is disrespectful simply justifies these blowouts. Remember the girls basketball team in the last year or so that beat an opponent 100-0 after maintaining a full court press for virtually the entire game? TAPPS ended up creating a mercy rule to preclude that from ever happening again.

by OOrah 07/05/12, 12:08 pm

This is all about responsibility. Is the team that is winning responsible for preserving the feelings of the team getting killed? I'd have to say no, given that all the parents signed up for competitive soccer. This ain't rec. Teams always need 3-0 or better wins to get max points. Yes, running up the score helps for goal difference tiebreak. It ain't the pretty side of competitve and maybe the Sting coach should of had a heart but this wont be the first time or the last time. But should of had a heart is different than saying he should have the responsibility. Not saying this is the case but lots of coaches have personal conflicts with other coaches that date back to older teams and games. It sounds stupid as hell but one coach will absolutely take it out on another coach because of something that happened with a game in another age bracket. A coach one of my kids used to play for used games like this to demand his kids score three times in 5 minutes just to practice fast scoring when they need it. Nice, aint it? I'm not saying its right but this ain't rec so don't expect polite nice parents or polite nice coaches. By highschool the heckling of players will start.

by Its Me 07/05/12, 12:19 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:
Frogfan1 wrote:We have pulled down to 8 players before.
Ugh... That's bad. Then you're not just beating an opponent but your punishing your players (and families) by not allowing them to play the game they're out there to play.

"We don't want you to score anymore goals on us but we don't want you to may us look stupid either." People that complain about these 'other' teams can't have it both ways. You can't bash a team for running up a score on you AND then keep bashing them when they do decide to put on the brakes and it turns the game into a practice and basically transforming a DD into cone to dribble around.

I understand that you can't have it both ways. However, as an adult/coach you should teach your kids about good sportmanship. Again, you're talking about young kids.

I too have been on both sides and felt horrible.

by Guest 07/05/12, 12:29 pm

It seems a little silly to me that this would bother the team that loses that much. My daughter has been on the winning side and losing side of many lopsided games, and I am sure will be there again. After a bad beating, I tell her" that was rough, but forget about it and lets go to the next game." You have to teach your kids to put it behind them and focus on the next one. There is no player at any lever of competitive sports that has not had the tar beat out of them or their team at some point. It will happen, and the telling part of a person is how they deal with it.

On the side of the team giving the beating, I have no problem if they keep going full bore. I would ask that they play their bench the majority of the time and put their best players in defensive positions, but other than that, knock yourselves out and don't give us any special treatment. We will be just fine.

I would also ask the parents on the winning team to respond and cheer less and less for each goal and just show a little class and realize the game is really over, but we are just trying to finish the best we can.

by soccerinsane 07/05/12, 12:39 pm

RunsLikeWind wrote:It seems a little silly to me that this would bother the team that loses that much. My daughter has been on the winning side and losing side of many lopsided games, and I am sure will be there again. After a bad beating, I tell her" that was rough, but forget about it and lets go to the next game." You have to teach your kids to put it behind them and focus on the next one. There is no player at any lever of competitive sports that has not had the tar beat out of them or their team at some point. It will happen, and the telling part of a person is how they deal with it.

On the side of the team giving the beating, I have no problem if they keep going full bore. I would ask that they play their bench the majority of the time and put their best players in defensive positions, but other than that, knock yourselves out and don't give us any special treatment. We will be just fine.

I would also ask the parents on the winning team to respond and cheer less and less for each goal and just show a little class and realize the game is really over, but we are just trying to finish the best we can.

Agreed--on every single thing you said.

by SoccerDad75033 07/05/12, 12:47 pm

ballhead wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:This string reminds me of a game I saw 2 years ago. Some of you may have been at the same game because it was the championship game for the u13 division for the Dallas Cup at Pizza Hut Park in 2010. It was between two teams from the same club out of California. It was LAFC against LAFC Black. The final was 7:0 and it was only that close because the LAFC coach instructed his players to stop scoring. The only reason I remember the game is because of how horrible it looked when the team that was winning stopped trying to score.

After LAFC was told to stop scoring they would still easily take the ball through the LAFC Black’s defense. But because they weren’t allowed to finish, the forward would send the ball 60 yards backwards through the air to the center defender to start it all up again. (LAFC probably did that act 3-5 times.) It was terrible to watch because even though the LAFC coach intended it to be good sportsmanship between his team and another team in his club, it was tremendously disrespectful. They were just toying with the other team, making them look inadequate.

At first, the parents from LAFC Black around me started to complain between themselves. Then they started to complain aloud. After a while I even heard a couple folks booing.

It was a horrible game to watch. Nobody there (players, fans) had any fun while that was going on. By not trying their best, LAFC was extremely disrespectful of LAFC Black that day.

Nobody likes a blowout, neither team. To say that its "extremely disrespectful" not to try their best is a little unrealistic. Defensive players and keepers can play offense and vice versa. You can create rules, i.e. minimum 3 passes before a shot, shots using other than the predominate foot, etc. that allows them to play and pass without continuing an unrelenting attack on a clearly inferior team.

When you're up 4, 5, or 6 goals, many starters ought to be resting, with the bench now on the field. The bench gets their shot at playing, and attacking, then drop into some tactics that allow them touches and work.

The implication that anything other than 100% attack is disrespectful simply justifies these blowouts. Remember the girls basketball team in the last year or so that beat an opponent 100-0 after maintaining a full court press for virtually the entire game? TAPPS ended up creating a mercy rule to preclude that from ever happening again.

Sorry, but that's just not true - and sadly, even in rec soccer. Coached a team that was down early, clearly outmatched. Parents on the other team commenting that "everyone will have the chance to score today"! Classless! A sad coach who gets his jollies using his Select team of U8 girls to beat up on a rec team.

by soccer4life 07/05/12, 04:30 pm

RunsLikeWind wrote:It seems a little silly to me that this would bother the team that loses that much. My daughter has been on the winning side and losing side of many lopsided games, and I am sure will be there again. After a bad beating, I tell her" that was rough, but forget about it and lets go to the next game." You have to teach your kids to put it behind them and focus on the next one. There is no player at any lever of competitive sports that has not had the tar beat out of them or their team at some point. It will happen, and the telling part of a person is how they deal with it.

On the side of the team giving the beating, I have no problem if they keep going full bore. I would ask that they play their bench the majority of the time and put their best players in defensive positions, but other than that, knock yourselves out and don't give us any special treatment. We will be just fine.

I would also ask the parents on the winning team to respond and cheer less and less for each goal and just show a little class and realize the game is really over, but we are just trying to finish the best we can.

Agree with your comment.

If the opposite of a lopsided score occurred and the same teams played to a 0-0 tie because the lesser team played everyone inside the 18 yd box, would you roast the lesser team for playing negative soccer or congratulate the lesser team for posting a result?

I suspect the latter after reading many of these posts.

Each time you step on the field you run the risk of getting beat badly but you might also beat someone badly. That's why soccer is a sport. Sports are competitive. Should the team in question be playing in the silver bracket? Obviously not. Did they run up the score purposely? Very doubtful. They showed up, played the schedule given them, and according to many of you scored to many goals. scratch

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