Select commitments before July 1?

How can select teams say they are adding players to their roster before July 1, in spite of this North Texas rule, which prohibits "recruiting"?

Committing to or on behalf of a team, a club, a player, or a coach for the upcoming soccer year prior to July 1, whether in writing or otherwise, or requesting or requiring a commitment to or by a team, club, player, or coach for the upcoming soccer year prior to July 1 whether in writing or otherwise. (Note: A coach requesting a returning player to state his intention concerning returning the following soccer year, or a player inquiring about his status on the team for the following year is permissible prior to July 1, but the commitment is not binding on either the player or the coach.)

So do the parents and coaches have a "nonbinding handshake" that a player has a spot on the team? How can parents know prior to July 1 that they have a spot on the roster and they will be able to sign with a new team on July 1? Is this "one of those" rules where everyone just looks the other way? Is there another set of unwritten rules?

Technically they dont have a spot on the team until july 1st.

The spots are given as a handshake, but the agreement can be broken by the player or the coach.

The word tryouts is very misleading it should just read signing day.

I've only seen one player actually come out and make a team (sight unseen) during the try-out period.

well said bigfoot - and really, there are no rules. Read the rule book all you want, they cannot be enforced.

Even if there were clearly defined rules, who would serve as a watchdog over the big clubs and step in to enforce them?

Back in the day I've heard June was an off month and July was actual tryouts. It's not like that anymore you sweet, innocent new to select person. You will be corrupted soon. Tryouts really take place in June. You get a verbal commitment then sign on July 1.

bigtex75081 wrote:Even if there were clearly defined rules, who would serve as a watchdog over the big clubs and step in to enforce them?

Why are you just worried about "big clubs"? You seem to love to complain about these "big clubs", but I have seen just as much of these "hand shakes" with small clubs and independents.

Like it or not, the system has no way to police this, and these "flexible" commitments are pretty much offered across the board.

Do you really think the independents follow the rules, and only the big clubs break the rules?

Really what should happen is the contracts expire June 1 and June should be a completely free month and contracts officially offered July 1. Let clubs offer whatever they want during June and let people accept.

ballhead wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:Even if there were clearly defined rules, who would serve as a watchdog over the big clubs and step in to enforce them?

Why are you just worried about "big clubs"? You seem to love to complain about these "big clubs", but I have seen just as much of these "hand shakes" with small clubs and independents.

Like it or not, the system has no way to police this, and these "flexible" commitments are pretty much offered across the board.

Do you really think the independents follow the rules, and only the big clubs break the rules?

It wasn't always this way. There was a time when these mega/huge/gigantic clubs didn't exist and clubs couldn't dictate policy. When this was just a big collection of smaller clubs things felt different. Things seemed more balanced.

When the clubs started to get really big, as some of them are now, the power to decide the direction of soccer in North Texas shifted from the governing organizations to the clubs. I respect that the clubs' leadership teams moved aggressively and found their own success but I do resent that there's no longer any real controls in place to stop them. It bothers me that the big clubs set things like price points, classic league bye ownerships, signing day policies, etc. This shift in power didn't seem to happen until the largest clubs appeared in the market.

When I write "big clubs", please don't think I'm targeting a particular club. It's not my intent to target yours or any other club specifically by that phrase.

I don't think the independents follow a different set of the rules. I think they follow the same rules (written or unwritten) that are now in place for all the clubs. It does bother me though that the system has no way to police this.

bigtex75081 wrote:

ballhead wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:Even if there were clearly defined rules, who would serve as a watchdog over the big clubs and step in to enforce them?

Why are you just worried about "big clubs"? You seem to love to complain about these "big clubs", but I have seen just as much of these "hand shakes" with small clubs and independents.

Like it or not, the system has no way to police this, and these "flexible" commitments are pretty much offered across the board.

Do you really think the independents follow the rules, and only the big clubs break the rules?

It wasn't always this way. There was a time when these mega/huge/gigantic clubs didn't exist and clubs couldn't dictate policy. When this was just a big collection of smaller clubs things felt different. Things seemed more balanced.

When the clubs started to get really big, as some of them are now, the power to decide the direction of soccer in North Texas shifted from the governing organizations to the clubs. I respect that the clubs' leadership teams moved aggressively and found their own success but I do resent that there's no longer any real controls in place to stop them. It bothers me that the big clubs set things like price points, classic league bye ownerships, signing day policies, etc. This shift in power didn't seem to happen until the largest clubs appeared in the market.

When I write "big clubs", please don't think I'm targeting a particular club. It's not my intent to target yours or any other club specifically by that phrase.

I don't think the independents follow a different set of the rules. I think they follow the same rules (written or unwritten) that are now in place for all the clubs. It does bother me though that the system has no way to police this.

I'm not concerned that you're targeting my dd's club. Their coaches do the handshakes, so does every other club, big and small. I suspect they always did.

Your post asked "who would serve as a watchdog over the big clubs", and I'm just saying that the problem (if it really is one, I'm not sure) is not just with big clubs, but is pervasive on all teams at all levels.

You seem to complain about large clubs a lot, and there are likely some things that large clubs do more so than small clubs or independent teams. But I don't think this is one of those things.

It sounds like you're saying before there were big or "mega" clubs, coaches wouldn't tell a prospect they coveted that if they wanted to come over, they had a spot.

I think that would be a little naive.

This is just my opinion.

I don't share the view that large clubs are like the "dark side". Much of the bad behavior is driven by coaches, not necessarily by the club. Coaches come in all sizes, good and bad and everywhere in between, and those coaches coach at small clubs, large clubs, and independent teams.

silentparent wrote:Really what should happen is the contracts expire June 1 and June should be a completely free month and contracts officially offered July 1. Let clubs offer whatever they want during June and let people accept.

Isn't that what we have? From what I've seen, the verbal commitments aren't honored from either side. Parents say they are in and then start looking because they feel like they are "safe" and Coaches are perpetually looking for the next best thing. Unless BOTH parties take is seriously, its not worth the paper its written on. (oh that's right, its VERBAL!)

Bootsy, sounds like you've had a different experience with your coach(es) over the years. We've always had honest coaches who were upfront with players about their chances and, when they thought another team might be a better fit, let them know. Luckily, they've also had enough integrity to honor the commitment of those players that have remained committed (even when "better" players showed up at the last minute.) Hope there are more out there with our experience than yours.

ballhead wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:

ballhead wrote:

bigtex75081 wrote:Even if there were clearly defined rules, who would serve as a watchdog over the big clubs and step in to enforce them?

Why are you just worried about "big clubs"? You seem to love to complain about these "big clubs", but I have seen just as much of these "hand shakes" with small clubs and independents.

Like it or not, the system has no way to police this, and these "flexible" commitments are pretty much offered across the board.

Do you really think the independents follow the rules, and only the big clubs break the rules?

It wasn't always this way. There was a time when these mega/huge/gigantic clubs didn't exist and clubs couldn't dictate policy. When this was just a big collection of smaller clubs things felt different. Things seemed more balanced.

When the clubs started to get really big, as some of them are now, the power to decide the direction of soccer in North Texas shifted from the governing organizations to the clubs. I respect that the clubs' leadership teams moved aggressively and found their own success but I do resent that there's no longer any real controls in place to stop them. It bothers me that the big clubs set things like price points, classic league bye ownerships, signing day policies, etc. This shift in power didn't seem to happen until the largest clubs appeared in the market.

When I write "big clubs", please don't think I'm targeting a particular club. It's not my intent to target yours or any other club specifically by that phrase.

I don't think the independents follow a different set of the rules. I think they follow the same rules (written or unwritten) that are now in place for all the clubs. It does bother me though that the system has no way to police this.

I'm not concerned that you're targeting my dd's club. Their coaches do the handshakes, so does every other club, big and small. I suspect they always did.

Your post asked "who would serve as a watchdog over the big clubs", and I'm just saying that the problem (if it really is one, I'm not sure) is not just with big clubs, but is pervasive on all teams at all levels.

You seem to complain about large clubs a lot, and there are likely some things that large clubs do more so than small clubs or independent teams. But I don't think this is one of those things.

It sounds like you're saying before there were big or "mega" clubs, coaches wouldn't tell a prospect they coveted that if they wanted to come over, they had a spot.

I think that would be a little naive.

This is just my opinion.

I don't share the view that large clubs are like the "dark side". Much of the bad behavior is driven by coaches, not necessarily by the club. Coaches come in all sizes, good and bad and everywhere in between, and those coaches coach at small clubs, large clubs, and independent teams.

I’ve been giving your post some thought. The truth is that I’m not really pro-“big club” or anti-“big club”. I’ve taken my kids to both. I can see the benefits and the negatives for both sides. I’m comfortable with them being in either environment.

I am anti-“systems that have no controls”. I’m anti-“systems that can’t be corrected”. I don’t like that we’re in a marketplace that, if you aren’t extremely smart on your kid’s behalf, your family is likely to get screwed at some point.

It bothers me that even if we identify a problem and come up with a reasonable solution, that no one is there to help us implement that change. It bothers me that there are serious problems with this system and we, the consumers, can’t seem to agree to take action to fix it. We can’t even stop ourselves from using the system. (And I’m part of that… I want to be a part of the solution but I’m at a loss at how to do so.)

bootsy wrote:

silentparent wrote:Really what should happen is the contracts expire June 1 and June should be a completely free month and contracts officially offered July 1. Let clubs offer whatever they want during June and let people accept.

Isn't that what we have? From what I've seen, the verbal commitments aren't honored from either side. Parents say they are in and then start looking because they feel like they are "safe" and Coaches are perpetually looking for the next best thing. Unless BOTH parties take is seriously, its not worth the paper its written on. (oh that's right, its VERBAL!)

I'm with bootsy on this, I don't see what all of the fuss is about, June/July it's quite irrelevant, it's gonna happen anyway.

Signed our "BIG" club contract yesterday, DTD 7/1/2012

badcramp wrote:Signed our "BIG" club contract yesterday, DTD 7/1/2012

I could be wrong, but I think there is some rule against signing early and postdating the agreement. Maybe someone knows the rule, if I am recalling correctly.

major rule infration, probably not something you want public!

RunsLikeWind wrote:

badcramp wrote:Signed our "BIG" club contract yesterday, DTD 7/1/2012

I could be wrong, but I think there is some rule against signing early and postdating the agreement. Maybe someone knows the rule, if I am recalling correctly.

The first thing on the Team Fact Sheet cover sheet from North Texas states that you must not sign and post date a contract prior to July 1st or you will be subject to severe sanctions. It even gives you a phone number to call if someone asks you to sign early. I definitely don't think you want that public!

weatherbug wrote:

RunsLikeWind wrote:

badcramp wrote:Signed our "BIG" club contract yesterday, DTD 7/1/2012

I could be wrong, but I think there is some rule against signing early and postdating the agreement. Maybe someone knows the rule, if I am recalling correctly.

The first thing on the Team Fact Sheet cover sheet from North Texas states that you must not sign and post date a contract prior to July 1st or you will be subject to severe sanctions. It even gives you a phone number to call if someone asks you to sign early. I definitely don't think you want that public!

So why are y'all still picking on the BIG clubs, huh?

bootsy wrote:
Isn't that what we have? From what I've seen, the verbal commitments aren't honored from either side. Parents say they are in and then start looking because they feel like they are "safe" and Coaches are perpetually looking for the next best thing. Unless BOTH parties take is seriously, its not worth the paper its written on. (oh that's right, its VERBAL!)

My son's team got killed with this scenario this year. In May we had verbal commitments from 17 players, accepted by coach. Coach started turning people away because he's an honorable guy. Mid-June 7 of those players bailed and left us scrambling. We'll be fine, within a week we had 5 new players and will probably end up rostering 14 total. However, it was really hard on the team and the coach because he trusted those parents who verbally committed. I don't know what the answer is, but the current system stinks.

copa44 wrote:

bootsy wrote:
Isn't that what we have? From what I've seen, the verbal commitments aren't honored from either side. Parents say they are in and then start looking because they feel like they are "safe" and Coaches are perpetually looking for the next best thing. Unless BOTH parties take is seriously, its not worth the paper its written on. (oh that's right, its VERBAL!)

My son's team got killed with this scenario this year. In May we had verbal commitments from 17 players, accepted by coach. Coach started turning people away because he's an honorable guy. Mid-June 7 of those players bailed and left us scrambling. We'll be fine, within a week we had 5 new players and will probably end up rostering 14 total. However, it was really hard on the team and the coach because he trusted those parents who verbally committed. I don't know what the answer is, but the current system stinks.

or your coach was too lazy to recruit. verbal commitments from anyone in may is a farce.......

The fact that so many think "verbal commitments are a farce" is one of the (many) reasons for our current downfall. Where is the "gentleman's handshake" of days gone by?

Just an Observer wrote:The fact that so many think "verbal commitments are a farce" is one of the (many) reasons for our current downfall. Where is the "gentleman's handshake" of days gone by?

you missed the point. i would say a verbal commitment in mid june is something to be honored. in may? before you have any opportunities? also who knows coach may have put people on the spot and tried to strongarm them who knows?

totalsoccer wrote:major rule infration, probably not something you want public!

If I was serious, I wouldn't have posted. But thanks.

Verbal commitments from a coach are only a farce when your kid isn't very good.

Perhaps this is another case of a parent hearing what he/she wants to hear...
COACH: "I'm not sure Sally fits in well on this team and I can't guarantee her any playing time."
PARENT INTERPRETATION: "Sally has a TON of potential and works hard. I'm sure I can coach her to a starting position in no time."