Re: Select commitments before July 1?

by bootsy 27/06/12, 08:50 pm

silentparent wrote:
Just an Observer wrote:The fact that so many think "verbal commitments are a farce" is one of the (many) reasons for our current downfall. Where is the "gentleman's handshake" of days gone by?

you missed the point. i would say a verbal commitment in mid june is something to be honored. in may? before you have any opportunities? also who knows coach may have put people on the spot and tried to strongarm them who knows?

Sounds like your idea of integrity is variable depending on month. If you don't want to commit, don't. Strong armed onto a youth soccer team? Really?

by Guest 27/06/12, 09:24 pm

bootsy wrote:
silentparent wrote:
Just an Observer wrote:The fact that so many think "verbal commitments are a farce" is one of the (many) reasons for our current downfall. Where is the "gentleman's handshake" of days gone by?

you missed the point. i would say a verbal commitment in mid june is something to be honored. in may? before you have any opportunities? also who knows coach may have put people on the spot and tried to strongarm them who knows?

Sounds like your idea of integrity is variable depending on month. If you don't want to commit, don't. Strong armed onto a youth soccer team? Really?

Lol, my verbal commitments are based on the appropriateness of the situation. I guess you would be ok with a verbal commitment in say february or perhaps march too? Not me that is not the time to make them on either party. I guess you would also have the integrity to tell a coach that you aren't really happy, want to try other teams but expect him to be your fallback position if thatdoesn't work out? Hmm didn't think so.

by Moe 27/06/12, 09:59 pm

Don't trust a handshake...too many snakeoil salesmen out there,wait till the rug gets yanked out from under your daughter on signing day.Yeah thats fun.

by bootsy 02/07/12, 11:31 am

silentparent wrote:
bootsy wrote:
silentparent wrote:
Just an Observer wrote:The fact that so many think "verbal commitments are a farce" is one of the (many) reasons for our current downfall. Where is the "gentleman's handshake" of days gone by?

you missed the point. i would say a verbal commitment in mid june is something to be honored. in may? before you have any opportunities? also who knows coach may have put people on the spot and tried to strongarm them who knows?

Sounds like your idea of integrity is variable depending on month. If you don't want to commit, don't. Strong armed onto a youth soccer team? Really?

Lol, my verbal commitments are based on the appropriateness of the situation. I guess you would be ok with a verbal commitment in say february or perhaps march too? Not me that is not the time to make them on either party. I guess you would also have the integrity to tell a coach that you aren't really happy, want to try other teams but expect him to be your fallback position if thatdoesn't work out? Hmm didn't think so.

Nope, I would not make the commitment. If the coach wants my daughter and I feel like there are too many variables, then I say thanks, she is really having a great time right now, but, let's revisit once there are less issues. If I screwed up and made a commitment for my daughter, (highly improbable) then I would stick to it based on integrity. As far as making a commitment and leveraging it as a fallback, that's total BS and would never do that. Only assholes do that kinda crap in youth sports; people that live through their daughter not people trying to do what's best for their daughter.

by DDx4 02/07/12, 04:17 pm

With a hand shake and a verbal commitment for the entire month of June. We signed our contract yesterday.

by InaB 02/07/12, 09:05 pm

OK, I am a firm believer in the old adage a man's (or woman's) bond is only as good as his or her handshake. I have no problem making a handshake commitment in advance of signing a contract. If a coach asks for my commitment and I am sure it is the right thing to do, then I commit. I don't oommit until something else comes along. I don't commit with my fingers crossed. If a coach made a verbal commitment to me and then doesn't keep it, I look at it two ways. It will be the coach's loss and it was not the right decision for my DD. Would it be painful to be looking at the last minute - yes. Would it turn out for the best (in 99 percent of the time it has)? There is integrity in being true to yourself and your commitment regardless of the outcome.

Very Happy

by CharlieSheen's Brain 02/07/12, 10:51 pm

So far all the discussion has been about the relationship between the coach and that one player family that received the verbal commitment or didn't. There are 13 to 14 other players that are affected by the commitment. If a coach commits early to a bubble player he/she could put the team total skill level in jeopardy. If a stronger player comes along, that stronger player has the potential to contribute to the entire team by raising the level of competition in games and the skill level during practices. Those thirteen families want the best possible team for their daughter. Select is not charity. Having team commitments in May or June is a double edged sword. If a coach doesn't commit he/she runs the risk of a team not making, if he/she commits too early than the possibility of raising the competitive level of a team may take a hit. So along comes that stronger player, the coach has his word to the early verbal commitment, but the other parents are affected by the situation. The entire NTX try out system is as corrupt as Chicago Politics.

In my opinion the best (not perfect by any means) option since there are no real tryouts, is to tell his families if their daughter is in the top eleven, then for those families 12 thru 16, let them know where they are so they can understand the risk and the work necessary to stay. And the coach should be communicating weekly in June on how things are going.

I heard from several families this past weekend who, according to them, got the "surprise" conversation of "we don't have a spot for your DD" after a full month of workouts with no indications that their DD was not up to par skill level wise. The coach (s) were walking the fine line of ensuring they have enough players to make while trying to attract the best talent. It's the system that they (coaches) have to deal with. In the end those families with players "on the bubble" are at the most risk of being jammed by NTX Select soccer. It ain't right, it ain't the best system, but it is the present system.

I wish we had true tryouts: where each club has a date set, the players do two or three training sessions in front of all Club coaches, who are grading each individual players skills. On Try out day, each player already has a Skill Level Score in their profile. Tryouts happen, where players show case their skills, attitude, team work ethic, etc. Then the coaches decide on the Club (A) team, (B) team, etc. Then Clubs can target skill development based on the teams. Team A assumption players are already advanced skill work, Team A goal is Strategy and show casing the Club. Team E beginner select players who need more footwork and basic skills development. Teams are assigned Coaches based on Coaches Strengths and Team Needs. PIPE DREAM I know, but I've been known to smoke 8 grams of crack, so it's affected my brain. signed Charlie.

by bigtex75081 03/07/12, 07:56 am

CharlieSheen's Brain wrote:So far all the discussion has been about the relationship between the coach and that one player family that received the verbal commitment or didn't. There are 13 to 14 other players that are affected by the commitment. If a coach commits early to a bubble player he/she could put the team total skill level in jeopardy. If a stronger player comes along, that stronger player has the potential to contribute to the entire team by raising the level of competition in games and the skill level during practices. Those thirteen families want the best possible team for their daughter. Select is not charity. Having team commitments in May or June is a double edged sword. If a coach doesn't commit he/she runs the risk of a team not making, if he/she commits too early than the possibility of raising the competitive level of a team may take a hit. So along comes that stronger player, the coach has his word to the early verbal commitment, but the other parents are affected by the situation. The entire NTX try out system is as corrupt as Chicago Politics.

In my opinion the best (not perfect by any means) option since there are no real tryouts, is to tell his families if their daughter is in the top eleven, then for those families 12 thru 16, let them know where they are so they can understand the risk and the work necessary to stay. And the coach should be communicating weekly in June on how things are going.

I heard from several families this past weekend who, according to them, got the "surprise" conversation of "we don't have a spot for your DD" after a full month of workouts with no indications that their DD was not up to par skill level wise. The coach (s) were walking the fine line of ensuring they have enough players to make while trying to attract the best talent. It's the system that they (coaches) have to deal with. In the end those families with players "on the bubble" are at the most risk of being jammed by NTX Select soccer. It ain't right, it ain't the best system, but it is the present system.

I wish we had true tryouts: where each club has a date set, the players do two or three training sessions in front of all Club coaches, who are grading each individual players skills. On Try out day, each player already has a Skill Level Score in their profile. Tryouts happen, where players show case their skills, attitude, team work ethic, etc. Then the coaches decide on the Club (A) team, (B) team, etc. Then Clubs can target skill development based on the teams. Team A assumption players are already advanced skill work, Team A goal is Strategy and show casing the Club. Team E beginner select players who need more footwork and basic skills development. Teams are assigned Coaches based on Coaches Strengths and Team Needs. PIPE DREAM I know, but I've been known to smoke 8 grams of crack, so it's affected my brain. signed Charlie.

WINNING! (a.k.a. "I agree.")

In principle a handshake should be enough but that's pretty black-and-white in a market painted entirely in gray. You need to do what's best for your DD and the coach must make decisions based on what's best for the team as a whole. If a superstar player comes along that will noticeably improve the team, somebody else has to go whether there was a handshake or not. We, the parents in NTX, have created this system where coaches are judged by winning results instead of firmness of handshakes.

I like your proposed system. I don't know if a coach would ever be willing to tell a visibly upset pair of parents "Your DD is either #12 or #13 on the roster depth chart as of right now but if somebody leaves she could move up to #11." because most parents in that situation would immediately look to leave the team. A good bench could quickly vanish, hurting a strong team.

by rlmolina33 03/07/12, 08:10 am

It isn't just the coaches that don't honor a handshake or verbal commit. You also have parents that do the same at the last minute leaving the coachto scramble and fill the spots so that the others that were true to their word can continue to play together. It is poor for a parent to say yes they are coming back all the way to June 28 and then call oon June 30th and say they are moving. Not necessarily for the coaches sake but their teammates. Not right nor fair in my opinion.

by mudhead 03/07/12, 11:38 am

CharlieSheen's Brain wrote:So far all the discussion has been about the relationship between the coach and that one player family that received the verbal commitment or didn't. There are 13 to 14 other players that are affected by the commitment. If a coach commits early to a bubble player he/she could put the team total skill level in jeopardy. If a stronger player comes along, that stronger player has the potential to contribute to the entire team by raising the level of competition in games and the skill level during practices. Those thirteen families want the best possible team for their daughter. Select is not charity. Having team commitments in May or June is a double edged sword. If a coach doesn't commit he/she runs the risk of a team not making, if he/she commits too early than the possibility of raising the competitive level of a team may take a hit. So along comes that stronger player, the coach has his word to the early verbal commitment, but the other parents are affected by the situation. The entire NTX try out system is as corrupt as Chicago Politics.

In my opinion the best (not perfect by any means) option since there are no real tryouts, is to tell his families if their daughter is in the top eleven, then for those families 12 thru 16, let them know where they are so they can understand the risk and the work necessary to stay. And the coach should be communicating weekly in June on how things are going.

I heard from several families this past weekend who, according to them, got the "surprise" conversation of "we don't have a spot for your DD" after a full month of workouts with no indications that their DD was not up to par skill level wise. The coach (s) were walking the fine line of ensuring they have enough players to make while trying to attract the best talent. It's the system that they (coaches) have to deal with. In the end those families with players "on the bubble" are at the most risk of being jammed by NTX Select soccer. It ain't right, it ain't the best system, but it is the present system.

I wish we had true tryouts: where each club has a date set, the players do two or three training sessions in front of all Club coaches, who are grading each individual players skills. On Try out day, each player already has a Skill Level Score in their profile. Tryouts happen, where players show case their skills, attitude, team work ethic, etc. Then the coaches decide on the Club (A) team, (B) team, etc. Then Clubs can target skill development based on the teams. Team A assumption players are already advanced skill work, Team A goal is Strategy and show casing the Club. Team E beginner select players who need more footwork and basic skills development. Teams are assigned Coaches based on Coaches Strengths and Team Needs. PIPE DREAM I know, but I've been known to smoke 8 grams of crack, so it's affected my brain. signed Charlie.

Great idea.

by Seven 03/07/12, 11:59 am

CharlieSheen's Brain wrote:So far all the discussion has been about the relationship between the coach and that one player family that received the verbal commitment or didn't. There are 13 to 14 other players that are affected by the commitment. If a coach commits early to a bubble player he/she could put the team total skill level in jeopardy. If a stronger player comes along, that stronger player has the potential to contribute to the entire team by raising the level of competition in games and the skill level during practices. Those thirteen families want the best possible team for their daughter. Select is not charity. Having team commitments in May or June is a double edged sword. If a coach doesn't commit he/she runs the risk of a team not making, if he/she commits too early than the possibility of raising the competitive level of a team may take a hit. So along comes that stronger player, the coach has his word to the early verbal commitment, but the other parents are affected by the situation. The entire NTX try out system is as corrupt as Chicago Politics.

In my opinion the best (not perfect by any means) option since there are no real tryouts, is to tell his families if their daughter is in the top eleven, then for those families 12 thru 16, let them know where they are so they can understand the risk and the work necessary to stay. And the coach should be communicating weekly in June on how things are going.
If you are paying attention to the games and playing time you should have a good idea where your DD stands
I heard from several families this past weekend who, according to them, got the "surprise" conversation of "we don't have a spot for your DD" after a full month of workouts with no indications that their DD was not up to par skill level wise. The coach (s) were walking the fine line of ensuring they have enough players to make while trying to attract the best talent. It's the system that they (coaches) have to deal with. In the end those families with players "on the bubble" are at the most risk of being jammed by NTX Select soccer. It ain't right, it ain't the best system, but it is the present system.
again if you are watching the workouts and have a realistic opinion of your DDs playing level there should not be a supprise conversation I wish we had true tryouts: where each club has a date set, the players do two or three training sessions in front of all Club coaches, who are grading each individual players skills. On Try out day, each player already has a Skill Level Score in their profile. Tryouts happen, where players show case their skills, attitude, team work ethic, etc. Then the coaches decide on the Club (A) team, (B) team, etc. Then Clubs can target skill development based on the teams. Team A assumption players are already advanced skill work, Team A goal is Strategy and show casing the Club. Team E beginner select players who need more footwork and basic skills development. Teams are assigned Coaches based on Coaches Strengths and Team Needs. PIPE DREAM I know, but I've been known to smoke 8 grams of crack, so it's affected my brain. signed Charlie.

I dont wish to have a club dictate what team my DD will play for. The club is not how we choose who our DD plays for its about the coach. With your system you have no choice who coaches your DD. I dont need "big government" deciding things for me

by Guest 03/07/12, 12:10 pm

Actually, if you ask me, the biggest problem is the short time frame between contract signing, and the deadline for registering for Lake Highlands. The 2 week window between the first time you can "officially" know where your DD and/or team stand and the deadline for having a minimal roster in place, is what causes the majority of stress IMO.

What would be the argument (other than "that's the current rule") against moving signing day up 2 weeks from July 1st to June 15th? State Cup is completed by then, so other than the 1 team in each age group that moves on to Regionals and maybe Nationals (Nationals aren't until the end of July, so that's already after the current July 1st NTX deadline AND the LHGCL registration deadline, so there must already be procedures/rules in place to handle this situation), why couldn't this be done?

Coaches and players that are "locked-in" on their decision will still want to make the official commitments ASAP on June 15th, but now both players and teams will have a little more time to find good fits before the league registration deadlines take place. It won't eliminate people making rash choices one way or the other, but it give people a little more breathing room to hopefully make better decisions under less stress, wouldn't it?

by pitchnovice 03/07/12, 12:11 pm

Seven wrote:
CharlieSheen's Brain wrote:So far all the discussion has been about the relationship between the coach and that one player family that received the verbal commitment or didn't. There are 13 to 14 other players that are affected by the commitment. If a coach commits early to a bubble player he/she could put the team total skill level in jeopardy. If a stronger player comes along, that stronger player has the potential to contribute to the entire team by raising the level of competition in games and the skill level during practices. Those thirteen families want the best possible team for their daughter. Select is not charity. Having team commitments in May or June is a double edged sword. If a coach doesn't commit he/she runs the risk of a team not making, if he/she commits too early than the possibility of raising the competitive level of a team may take a hit. So along comes that stronger player, the coach has his word to the early verbal commitment, but the other parents are affected by the situation. The entire NTX try out system is as corrupt as Chicago Politics.

In my opinion the best (not perfect by any means) option since there are no real tryouts, is to tell his families if their daughter is in the top eleven, then for those families 12 thru 16, let them know where they are so they can understand the risk and the work necessary to stay. And the coach should be communicating weekly in June on how things are going.
If you are paying attention to the games and playing time you should have a good idea where your DD stands
I heard from several families this past weekend who, according to them, got the "surprise" conversation of "we don't have a spot for your DD" after a full month of workouts with no indications that their DD was not up to par skill level wise. The coach (s) were walking the fine line of ensuring they have enough players to make while trying to attract the best talent. It's the system that they (coaches) have to deal with. In the end those families with players "on the bubble" are at the most risk of being jammed by NTX Select soccer. It ain't right, it ain't the best system, but it is the present system.
again if you are watching the workouts and have a realistic opinion of your DDs playing level there should not be a supprise conversation I wish we had true tryouts: where each club has a date set, the players do two or three training sessions in front of all Club coaches, who are grading each individual players skills. On Try out day, each player already has a Skill Level Score in their profile. Tryouts happen, where players show case their skills, attitude, team work ethic, etc. Then the coaches decide on the Club (A) team, (B) team, etc. Then Clubs can target skill development based on the teams. Team A assumption players are already advanced skill work, Team A goal is Strategy and show casing the Club. Team E beginner select players who need more footwork and basic skills development. Teams are assigned Coaches based on Coaches Strengths and Team Needs. PIPE DREAM I know, but I've been known to smoke 8 grams of crack, so it's affected my brain. signed Charlie.

I dont wish to have a club dictate what team my DD will play for. The club is not how we choose who our DD plays for its about the coach. With your system you have no choice who coaches your DD. I dont need "big government" deciding things for me

What is the Club/Select Format in California or New Jersey or on the east coast in general? It's definitely not the NTX model. Where are the majority of players coming from who populate the upper age group National Pools? I don't have scientific evidence, but my gut tells me our select soccer format here in Texas may have a negative consequence in the long run. CS Brain has a good idea, but parents and coaches would never go for it.

by pitchnovice 03/07/12, 12:16 pm

bwgophers wrote:Actually, if you ask me, the biggest problem is the short time frame between contract signing, and the deadline for registering for Lake Highlands. The 2 week window between the first time you can "officially" know where your DD and/or team stand and the deadline for having a minimal roster in place, is what causes the majority of stress IMO.

What would be the argument (other than "that's the current rule") against moving signing day up 2 weeks from July 1st to June 15th? State Cup is completed by then, so other than the 1 team in each age group that moves on to Regionals and maybe Nationals (Nationals aren't until the end of July, so that's already after the current July 1st NTX deadline AND the LHGCL registration deadline, so there must already be procedures/rules in place to handle this situation), why couldn't this be done?

Coaches and players that are "locked-in" on their decision will still want to make the official commitments ASAP on June 15th, but now both players and teams will have a little more time to find good fits before the league registration deadlines take place. It won't eliminate people making rash choices one way or the other, but it give people a little more breathing room to hopefully make better decisions under less stress, wouldn't it?

I like your idea too. When do most families take vacations? June. Someone who is visiting a team in June looks around at the team and says "what's the quality of players?" How does the coach interact with an entire squad? Instead they see a makeshift team b/c alot of families take vacations. Right now, unless you are on a stable team, taking vacations is nearly impossible.

by bigtex75081 03/07/12, 12:30 pm

pitchnovice wrote:
bwgophers wrote:Actually, if you ask me, the biggest problem is the short time frame between contract signing, and the deadline for registering for Lake Highlands. The 2 week window between the first time you can "officially" know where your DD and/or team stand and the deadline for having a minimal roster in place, is what causes the majority of stress IMO.

What would be the argument (other than "that's the current rule") against moving signing day up 2 weeks from July 1st to June 15th? State Cup is completed by then, so other than the 1 team in each age group that moves on to Regionals and maybe Nationals (Nationals aren't until the end of July, so that's already after the current July 1st NTX deadline AND the LHGCL registration deadline, so there must already be procedures/rules in place to handle this situation), why couldn't this be done?

Coaches and players that are "locked-in" on their decision will still want to make the official commitments ASAP on June 15th, but now both players and teams will have a little more time to find good fits before the league registration deadlines take place. It won't eliminate people making rash choices one way or the other, but it give people a little more breathing room to hopefully make better decisions under less stress, wouldn't it?

I like your idea too. When do most families take vacations? June. Someone who is visiting a team in June looks around at the team and says "what's the quality of players?" How does the coach interact with an entire squad? Instead they see a makeshift team b/c alot of families take vacations. Right now, unless you are on a stable team, taking vacations is nearly impossible.

BECAUSE... That's the current rule! (Personally, I prefer the excuse, "Because that's the way we've always done it!")

Gophers' suggestion does make sense. The current rule was put in place when June was the quietest month for select soccer activity. That was when the 2-week period for tryouts actually was used for trying out. June was the one month when families could take a summer vacation without hurting their team or harming their chances to join a team. That's not the case anymore.

I agree that with the changes to how tryouts are being implemented, it makes sense to change the rules surrounding contract signings.

by skippy 03/07/12, 06:27 pm

They had a system similar to the one Charlie Sheen's Brain talked about in our old state. Tryouts take place the week after Memorial Day and the contract year is August 1-July 31. No permission slips required for players who want to practice with other clubs. Our DD trained with a potential new club from April-May then went to her own club practices. The club schedules one or two evenings of tryouts for each age group. Players start with their current team and new players start off in their own group for evaluation then are directed over to play with the A, B, C team etc. They may be moved to a different group (up or down) during the tryout. The player will get a call that night or the next day informing them which team they have been placed on. The player has 24 hours to accept or decline. The club must keep 50% +1 on their roster in order to keep their league placement. Players can try out with different clubs if they want. Existing players may be moved up or down at tryouts too. In fact, players can move up or down during the year too since the contract is really with the club, not the team. Nobody is guaranteed their spot, but most players have a good idea whether or not they are on the bubble. After accepting the offer, parents sign the contract and can enjoy the summer. Some teams may play in one more June tournament and invite their new players to guest play (as long as the old club gives permission). Teams usually start light practices in mid July and preseason tournaments start in August.

No QT for anyone. If the team is new or doesn't keep 50%+1, then they start in the lowest division. Top team or two move up and bottom team or two moves down. Finally, player numbers are based on team placement, so if a player is moved to a different team, they won't have to worry about a duplicate jersey number.

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