USA Women vs Canada today! Semis

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

grassyknoll wrote:Just watched this match on DVR. While I'm thrilled for the USWNT to be playing for the gold, anyone else thinks Canadian fans have a valid complaint when they say they were robbed?

Robbed by a ref that followed the Laws of the Game? No, they were not robbed

Indirect free kick
An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences:

•controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession

LOTG

Knowing the LOTG and knowing how to apply them are two entirely different things. I'm a US NT fan - got my supporter's club scarf and the whole 9.

But NO WAY a seasoned ref makes that call in a U14 game...let alone semi finals of the OLYMPICS. As great a spectacle as the game was it was equally an atrociously bad game by the center. The stories out today suggest the center may have been gamed by Wambach - which is all the more indication she was on too big a stage.

The better team won, and the poor officiating probably helped Canada more than the U.S (Tancredi should've been ejected at least twice), but IMO Canada has a legit gripe on that free kick.

Funny how people that have never reffed a game, never taken even the basic referee class can matter of factly state what a "seasoned" ref would do.
You are quite wrong, a seasoned ref makes this call in a game like this because it is the Law of the Game and the CA keeper had been abusing it the entire second half. She was trying to get away with it "game" the center and paid the price.

Tancredi should have been ejected for the stomp to the head, but I put the balme for that missed call on the AR since it was inside the 18 along the line of sight with the last defender.

Tancredi should have been ejected but I can't blame the AR for missing it. The ball was moving towards the goal line and the AR has to watch to make sure it didn't break the plain. It was a dirty play from a dirty player. Unfortunately that one was missed. FIFA should look at it for a post-game video review though and hand down some type of punishment. Those long cleats go very close to Carli's eyes and ears.

As for the 6-seconds... I see U08 Rec kids on the field that are familiar with this rule. (I also hear their parents telling them to get rid of the ball quick.) How does an international-level goalkeeper, that's already been warned by the referee, not know this rule? (Maybe she actually does know the rule but was intentionally breaking it?)

Tank deserves a 1 year suspension for that. There should be zero tolerance for that crap.

newtothis wrote:

Funny how people that have never reffed a game, never taken even the basic referee class can matter of factly state what a "seasoned" ref would do.
You are quite wrong, a seasoned ref makes this call in a game like this because it is the Law of the Game and the CA keeper had been abusing it the entire second half. She was trying to get away with it "game" the center and paid the price.

Tancredi should have been ejected for the stomp to the head, but I put the balme for that missed call on the AR since it was inside the 18 along the line of sight with the last defender.

Even funnier how people make assumptions and then run with them as if their assumptions were correct in the first place.

I read referee forums daily as part of my soccer habit (among others). The guys doing high level youth, college and MLS games have almost unanimously come out and said it was a terrible call and a poorly managed game. It is rare you'll find officials united in their critique of another official in a high level match, mainly because they understand the pressure and how difficult it is to get it all right, and also because the application of the LOTG is very subjective. The fact you have almost universal condemnation of this call by American officials is why I matter of factly stated a "seasoned ref" would not make this call in that situation at this level.


I don't care what a U8 kid knows. You might call a U8 kid for stepping over the line on a throw in or stepping outside the box on a punt. You're trying to teach them the game. But you don't ref U8 rec game the same as an international match.

That said I read about Pederson more last night and she is a very experienced international official that has done world cup games in the past. She (obviously) just had an off night. She likely knows more about applying LOTG in one finger than most of us in our entire brains, or else she couldn't have gotten to that level in the first place. I feel for her because she is now negatively associated with what is probably an instant classic.

The take away for me is if a highly experienced ref can have that bad of a night at the olympics, there is no point in folks expecting perfection every week from their local officials.

Saw this in an article today...

Teammate Melissa Tancredi was asked what she said to the referee after the match: “I hope you can sleep tonight and put on your American jersey because that’s who you played for today.’ I was honest.”

The result of the game provoked a strong reaction in Canada, but it has also led to some sober second thought. Vancouver Whitecaps coach Martin Rennie said he went back and counted just how long McLeod was holding the ball.

“I think obviously at the time watching it I felt they were pretty hard done by on the refereeing decision,” Rennie told The Vancouver Sun. “Watching it again, I realized the goalkeeper held the ball for 16 seconds, in the second half she held it for 17 seconds and then she got penalized for holding for 13 seconds. So, that’s a long time on the ball and understandable why the ref called it.”

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

Funny how people that have never reffed a game, never taken even the basic referee class can matter of factly state what a "seasoned" ref would do.
You are quite wrong, a seasoned ref makes this call in a game like this because it is the Law of the Game and the CA keeper had been abusing it the entire second half. She was trying to get away with it "game" the center and paid the price.

Tancredi should have been ejected for the stomp to the head, but I put the balme for that missed call on the AR since it was inside the 18 along the line of sight with the last defender.

Even funnier how people make assumptions and then run with them as if their assumptions were correct in the first place.

I read referee forums daily as part of my soccer habit (among others). The guys doing high level youth, college and MLS games have almost unanimously come out and said it was a terrible call and a poorly managed game. It is rare you'll find officials united in their critique of another official in a high level match, mainly because they understand the pressure and how difficult it is to get it all right, and also because the application of the LOTG is very subjective. The fact you have almost universal condemnation of this call by American officials is why I matter of factly stated a "seasoned ref" would not make this call in that situation at this level.


I don't care what a U8 kid knows. You might call a U8 kid for stepping over the line on a throw in or stepping outside the box on a punt. You're trying to teach them the game. But you don't ref U8 rec game the same as an international match.

That said I read about Pederson more last night and she is a very experienced international official that has done world cup games in the past. She (obviously) just had an off night. She likely knows more about applying LOTG in one finger than most of us in our entire brains, or else she couldn't have gotten to that level in the first place. I feel for her because she is now negatively associated with what is probably an instant classic.

The take away for me is if a highly experienced ref can have that bad of a night at the olympics, there is no point in folks expecting perfection every week from their local officials.

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

On the free kick given, the keeper held the ball for 8 to 9 seconds AFTER she got up. Abby started her counting in the refs ear as soon as the keeper possessed the ball on the ground. The whistle blew as she was in motion of punting. There are ways to deal with time wasting at higher levels of the game. Giving away free kicks in the box is not typically one of them.

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

On the free kick given, the keeper held the ball for 8 to 9 seconds AFTER she got up. Abby started her counting in the refs ear as soon as the keeper possessed the ball on the ground. The whistle blew as she was in motion of punting. There are ways to deal with time wasting at higher levels of the game. Giving away free kicks in the box is not typically one of them.

Ok I have done my own "homework" and I have found no such quotes attributed to "high level" referees in any forum or blog.

I suggest you do some of your own "homework" as the GK had control of the ball for 11 seconds. You don't understand the LOTG.

To save you some effort:

FIFA says

A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more
than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface
(e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

Please post the link. Thanks.

After seeing the obvious malicious foul in the box against Carli, I believe it all evens out goal wise. I would agree with the suspension comment. Soccer games have a funny way of evening out MOST OF THE TIME !

Sweeper wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

Please post the link. Thanks.

No thanks Sweep - not my place. The last thing high level officials want is a bunch of club soccer parents who don't actually care about refereeing showing up to post emotional comments about one game. Like I said - they're not hard to find if anyone truly cares to look.

TorquauyU wrote:[img][/img]

Wow

FriscoSoccer05 wrote:

TorquauyU wrote:[img][/img]

Wow

It amazes me that in this age with technology everywhere and cameras on everything we own that a player thinks they can get away with that and no one will see it. Either that or she is just stupid. A nice suspension is surely on the way for Ms. Tancredi.

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

Sweeper wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

Please post the link. Thanks.

No thanks Sweep - not my place. The last thing high level officials want is a bunch of club soccer parents who don't actually care about refereeing showing up to post emotional comments about one game. Like I said - they're not hard to find if anyone truly cares to look.

Yeah, ok sure..

I just read a thread on a forum for referees where all the high level refs agreed with the IDK call and could not believe anyone would question it.
I'd give you the link, but I am sure these refs don't want people like you reading it.

newtothis wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

Sweeper wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

Please post the link. Thanks.

No thanks Sweep - not my place. The last thing high level officials want is a bunch of club soccer parents who don't actually care about refereeing showing up to post emotional comments about one game. Like I said - they're not hard to find if anyone truly cares to look.

Yeah, ok sure..

I just read a thread on a forum for referees where all the high level refs agreed with the IDK call and could not believe anyone would question it.
I'd give you the link, but I am sure these refs don't want people like you reading it.

A real source told me that Mitt Romney has never paid taxes in his life, the US v Canada game was fixed, Elvis lives on Maui, and Tourguay sleeps in underoos. It's all true and I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

Why is it that no one is blaming the Canadian keeper for obviously "testing" the referee? If she was warned earlier in the game and continued to ignore the warning then she is the only one to blame. If one of our defenders had been specifically warned about an act in Our box against Canada and she did it two more times and then was called for a foul that resulted in a PK for Canada would it still be the refs fault? This is pretty standard typical nowadays, someone else is always at fault for our mistakes.

Tiki-taka wrote:

newtothis wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

Sweeper wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

Please post the link. Thanks.

No thanks Sweep - not my place. The last thing high level officials want is a bunch of club soccer parents who don't actually care about refereeing showing up to post emotional comments about one game. Like I said - they're not hard to find if anyone truly cares to look.

Yeah, ok sure..

I just read a thread on a forum for referees where all the high level refs agreed with the IDK call and could not believe anyone would question it.
I'd give you the link, but I am sure these refs don't want people like you reading it.

A real source told me that Mitt Romney has never paid taxes in his life, the US v Canada game was fixed, Elvis lives on Maui, and Tourguay sleeps in underoos. It's all true and I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

Maybe your source is the same as mine. Mine told me Obama was born in Canada, Bigfoot is real and has a condo in the Ozarks and the moon landing was a cover up for an alien earth landing in Roswell.

BadMoon wrote:Why is it that no one is blaming the Canadian keeper for obviously "testing" the referee? If she was warned earlier in the game and continued to ignore the warning then she is the only one to blame. If one of our defenders had been specifically warned about an act in Our box against Canada and she did it two more times and then was called for a foul that resulted in a PK for Canada would it still be the refs fault? This is pretty standard typical nowadays, someone else is always at fault for our mistakes.

+1

BadMoon wrote:Why is it that no one is blaming the Canadian keeper for obviously "testing" the referee? If she was warned earlier in the game and continued to ignore the warning then she is the only one to blame. If one of our defenders had been specifically warned about an act in Our box against Canada and she did it two more times and then was called for a foul that resulted in a PK for Canada would it still be the refs fault? This is pretty standard typical nowadays, someone else is always at fault for our mistakes.

I would tend to agree too if she was warned by the ref and just ignored the warning. Not a brilliant idea. Of course, neither is a pink sponge tape headband.

However, I didn't see the warning during the game. Is it clear that the keeper was warned by the ref?

Frankly, I don't feel badly for Canada after seeing the Tancredi video. Seems like they got the karma they deserved.

Sweeper wrote:

BadMoon wrote:Why is it that no one is blaming the Canadian keeper for obviously "testing" the referee? If she was warned earlier in the game and continued to ignore the warning then she is the only one to blame. If one of our defenders had been specifically warned about an act in Our box against Canada and she did it two more times and then was called for a foul that resulted in a PK for Canada would it still be the refs fault? This is pretty standard typical nowadays, someone else is always at fault for our mistakes.

I would tend to agree too if she was warned by the ref and just ignored the warning. Not a brilliant idea. Of course, neither is a pink sponge tape headband.

However, I didn't see the warning during the game. Is it clear that the keeper was warned by the ref?

Frankly, I don't feel badly for Canada after seeing the Tancredi video. Seems like they got the karma they deserved.

Keepers stalling is routine behavior, though you typically see it more on goal kicks or restarts. They don't usually push the ref while the ball is in play. Canada's keep played with fire and got burned.

That said - the consensus opinion is the center was within the LOTG for calling a 6 second infraction, but very few agree it was the correct call. You just don't insert yourself and take the game away from the players in that situation. If she had been doing an ethnic league game she'd have needed an escort for any hopes of getting back to the car in one piece. She had other options to deal with the time wasting, and that kind of performance can get a referee permanently wiped from being called up again for high level games.

I feel worse for Pederson than I do Canada. They gave up 3 other goals and lost to an opponent that outplayed them. Given how well they played I can certainly understand their frustration. Put the shoe on the other foot and we'd still be roasting the referee two days later...

Tiki-taka wrote:

newtothis wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

Sweeper wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

I'd love to see these quotes from high level American soccer referees. I've only seen quotes from coaches, players and commentators. I'd be surprised if any respectable referee would come out and call out another ref for following the LOTG.

Do your own homework. They're not hard to find. Refs aren't coming out giving quotes in the media, and I never suggested they were. They're doing it on referee blogs and forums.

Please post the link. Thanks.

No thanks Sweep - not my place. The last thing high level officials want is a bunch of club soccer parents who don't actually care about refereeing showing up to post emotional comments about one game. Like I said - they're not hard to find if anyone truly cares to look.

Yeah, ok sure..

I just read a thread on a forum for referees where all the high level refs agreed with the IDK call and could not believe anyone would question it.
I'd give you the link, but I am sure these refs don't want people like you reading it.

A real source told me that Mitt Romney has never paid taxes in his life, the US v Canada game was fixed, Elvis lives on Maui, and Tourguay sleeps in underoos. It's all true and I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

Holiday Inn Express - so much fail!

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

newtothis wrote:

grassyknoll wrote:Just watched this match on DVR. While I'm thrilled for the USWNT to be playing for the gold, anyone else thinks Canadian fans have a valid complaint when they say they were robbed?

Robbed by a ref that followed the Laws of the Game? No, they were not robbed

Indirect free kick
An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences:

•controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession

LOTG

Knowing the LOTG and knowing how to apply them are two entirely different things. I'm a US NT fan - got my supporter's club scarf and the whole 9.

But NO WAY a seasoned ref makes that call in a U14 game...let alone semi finals of the OLYMPICS. As great a spectacle as the game was it was equally an atrociously bad game by the center. The stories out today suggest the center may have been gamed by Wambach - which is all the more indication she was on too big a stage.

The better team won, and the poor officiating probably helped Canada more than the U.S (Tancredi should've been ejected at least twice), but IMO Canada has a legit gripe on that free kick.

Oh yes center ref here do too call a keeper on holding to long. Just as my dd who is a keeper. She had this called on her this spring. For her she made a save picked the ball up ran to the right corner of the box to punt and noticed it was to packed to get it to a player or open space. She shifted left and released the ball. No joke the ref said she held the ball 7 seconds and give the opposing team an indirect kick which resulted in a tie. She had no warning. She wasn't leisurely walking like McCloud was to the top of the box. She was moving quickly into position.

So be aware those calls do happen here in NTX.

jen_nah wrote:
Oh yes center ref here do too call a keeper on holding to long. Just as my dd who is a keeper. She had this called on her this spring. For her she made a save picked the ball up ran to the right corner of the box to punt and noticed it was to packed to get it to a player or open space. She shifted left and released the ball. No joke the ref said she held the ball 7 seconds and give the opposing team an indirect kick which resulted in a tie. She had no warning. She wasn't leisurely walking like McCloud was to the top of the box. She was moving quickly into position.

So be aware those calls do happen here in NTX.

PIA's comment on the call after the game, "I've never seen it."

And she's been around since Lincoln.

We're talking international soccer. Why compare Ulittles to the Olympics? A local ref who calls a ten-year-old keep for holding the ball 7 seconds is probably not a "seasoned" official - that's why they're officiating our DD's instead of high level games. Newtothis types can cut and paste the LOTG...doesn't mean they've enough sense to stop them applying them like a tax accountant and mangling games.

A FIFA badge getting Olympic semifinals? That's another story - different level, different standard. If FIFA thought Pederson did a good job she'd be getting a shot at a medal game instead of going home: done.

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

jen_nah wrote:
Oh yes center ref here do too call a keeper on holding to long. Just as my dd who is a keeper. She had this called on her this spring. For her she made a save picked the ball up ran to the right corner of the box to punt and noticed it was to packed to get it to a player or open space. She shifted left and released the ball. No joke the ref said she held the ball 7 seconds and give the opposing team an indirect kick which resulted in a tie. She had no warning. She wasn't leisurely walking like McCloud was to the top of the box. She was moving quickly into position.

So be aware those calls do happen here in NTX.

PIA's comment on the call after the game, "I've never seen it."

And she's been around since Lincoln.

We're talking international soccer. Why compare Ulittles to the Olympics? A local ref who calls a ten-year-old keep for holding the ball 7 seconds is probably not a "seasoned" official - that's why they're officiating our DD's instead of high level games. Newtothis types can cut and paste the LOTG...doesn't mean they've enough sense to stop them applying them like a tax accountant and mangling games.

A FIFA badge getting Olympic semifinals? That's another story - different level, different standard. If FIFA thought Pederson did a good job she'd be getting a shot at a medal game instead of going home: done.

Have to agree with 4-4-2... worst blown call in a knockout game since December 23, 1972!