Injury Prevention By Communicating w/ DD School

by soccerpop76 26/09/12, 10:53 am

Our daughter injured her hamstring(pulled not torn) in P.E. at school(they where doing lunges.) So now she is out for up to 2 weeks. I asked her "what kind of stretching did the teacher/coach do with your class before you started your excersizes?" She stated they did some "minor" stretching with her muscles cold, not warmed up. Now with my DD training hard 2-3 times a week and having two games back to back this past weekend, her growing body is trying to repair itself.

Here are the questions:

With the determination, commitment, and time she puts into her team, are we wrong to feel that her comp soccer comes first?

What kind of communication should I have with the school about her?

I would like to here the opinions of the coaches out there that teach at schools as well. What kind of communication would you like from the parents?

by Blank77 26/09/12, 10:58 am

I know at the athletic meeting at my DD/BB school they made a point to belittle select soccer. Everyone had to attend the meeting, although mine were only interested in soccer/basketball, but as you can expect the meeting was geared 100% to football and the only mention of other sports is that you were not to miss any football practice for outside sports comittment, mockingly mentioning even a select soccer game. I'd assume that most other schools probably have the same outlook on outside sports and you'll have a hard time getting any communication from them except about football.

by Guest 26/09/12, 11:16 am

Stretching wouuld not have helped. Warming up - yes, but stretching before an activity is counter productive.

by Hook It 26/09/12, 11:29 am

Xara wrote:Stretching wouuld not have helped. Warming up - yes, but stretching before an activity is counter productive.

XARA: My neighbor is a Dallas Cowboy player for the last 4 yrs, and he has explained to us that the warmup of a light cardio first has been a change in the last few years - then stretching/ joint movement on an as needed basis. First fill those muscles and lube those joints, then into the stretching/ extensions.

Funny or maybe not - he has had 2 hammy injuries

by ny~smart~az 26/09/12, 12:22 pm

soccerpop76 wrote:Our daughter injured her hamstring(pulled not torn) in P.E. at school(they where doing lunges.) So now she is out for up to 2 weeks. I asked her "what kind of stretching did the teacher/coach do with your class before you started your excersizes?" She stated they did some "minor" stretching with her muscles cold, not warmed up. Now with my DD training hard 2-3 times a week and having two games back to back this past weekend, her growing body is trying to repair itself.

Here are the questions:

With the determination, commitment, and time she puts into her team, are we wrong to feel that her comp soccer comes first?

What kind of communication should I have with the school about her?

I would like to here the opinions of the coaches out there that teach at schools as well. What kind of communication would you like from the parents?

Our DD was injured on during the Labor Day Tourn.(cleated on top of her foot) Her foot was bruised and swollen so we treated her with Ice, motrin, rest...I sent a note to her coach at school explaining the injury and I wanted NO participation during PE at school for the next few days.

Right away the coach had attitude and told my DD that the note is only good until the 3rd day and then we need a Dr.note which is standard. The 2nd day she made my DD walk the laps instead of running them. Completely disregarding my instructions. And the 3rd day she had a nice email from me telling her that, my DD will be reporting to the office during her class. If you want to count it as an unexcused absence then be my guest.

They don't want to hear anything about outside sports activities. I do know now though, Outside sports can count as a PE credit, just ask your school counselor what the procedure is.

by Blank77 26/09/12, 12:52 pm

Xara wrote:Stretching wouuld not have helped. Warming up - yes, but stretching before an activity is counter productive.

For some reason I have the image in my head of jim Carey warming up before basketball in Cable Guy.

by Hook It 26/09/12, 01:28 pm

ny~smart~az wrote:
soccerpop76 wrote:Our daughter injured her hamstring(pulled not torn) in P.E. at school(they where doing lunges.) So now she is out for up to 2 weeks. I asked her "what kind of stretching did the teacher/coach do with your class before you started your excersizes?" She stated they did some "minor" stretching with her muscles cold, not warmed up. Now with my DD training hard 2-3 times a week and having two games back to back this past weekend, her growing body is trying to repair itself.

Here are the questions:

With the determination, commitment, and time she puts into her team, are we wrong to feel that her comp soccer comes first?

What kind of communication should I have with the school about her?

I would like to here the opinions of the coaches out there that teach at schools as well. What kind of communication would you like from the parents?

Our DD was injured on during the Labor Day Tourn.(cleated on top of her foot) Her foot was bruised and swollen so we treated her with Ice, motrin, rest...I sent a note to her coach at school explaining the injury and I wanted NO participation during PE at school for the next few days.

Right away the coach had attitude and told my DD that the note is only good until the 3rd day and then we need a Dr.note which is standard. The 2nd day she made my DD walk the laps instead of running them. Completely disregarding my instructions. And the 3rd day she had a nice email from me telling her that, my DD will be reporting to the office during her class. If you want to count it as an unexcused absence then be my guest.

They don't want to hear anything about outside sports activities. I do know now though, Outside sports can count as a PE credit, just ask your school counselor what the procedure is.

Tend to agree - thier programs are a joke in terms on competitive level, but the kids love it due to the social aspect. I am happy if the kids are happy so we just do not put any big extra effort in. The yourney....

External PE has two levels; 5Hrs/wk (easy to do - only benefit is you kids does not have to do PE at school - no time savings as they will be signed up for another class. 15Hrs/wk fairly hard to do, but same thing 1 sport only can not combine sports but you do get out early and the school will acomodate your schedule with in reason. This seems more prevalent with Gymnastics, Ice Hockey, and maybe extremely competitive swimming, etc....

by Guest 26/09/12, 01:55 pm

Hook It wrote:
Xara wrote:Stretching wouuld not have helped. Warming up - yes, but stretching before an activity is counter productive.
XARA: My neighbor is a Dallas Cowboy player for the last 4 yrs, and he has explained to us that the warmup of a light cardio first has been a change in the last few years - then stretching/ joint movement on an as needed basis. First fill those muscles and lube those joints, then into the stretching/ extensions.

Funny or maybe not - he has had 2 hammy injuries

I remember one of the best articles I ever read on this subject in 'Runner's World'. Here's one of the primary excerpts:

"Stephen Thacker, M.D., the study's head author, assures me he has spent many years in public health surveillance, epidemiology, and infectious diseases. But, he says, obesity is costing the United States more than $100 billion a year, and the CDC believes that more exercise could reduce this healthcare burden.
"We want to promote physical activity," says Dr. Thacker, "but we have to look at all the things that either encourage or discourage exercise, such as the amount of time it takes to exercise, and the injuries you can get. We look for the science before we make any recommendations."

For Dr. Thacker's paper "The Impact of Stretching on Sports Injury Risk: A Systematic Review of the Literature," he and his colleagues pored over nearly 100 other published medical studies on the subject. Their key conclusions: stretching does increase flexibility; the highest-quality studies indicate that this increased flexibility doesn't prevent injuries; few athletes need extreme flexibility to perform their best (perhaps just gymnasts and figure skaters); and more injuries would be prevented by better warmups, by strength training, and by balance exercises, than by stretching.

Ian Shrier, M.D., a past president of the Canadian Society of Sports Medicine, has been drilling into the stretching literature since the early 1990s. In a 1999 paper titled "Stretching Before Exercise Does Not Reduce the Risk of Local Muscle Injury," Dr. Shrier lists five reasons why stretching shouldn't be expected to work. Among them: stretching won't change eccentric muscle activity (when a muscle simultaneously contracts and lengthens, as in downhill running), which is believed to cause most injuries; stretching can produce damage at the skeletal level; and stretching appears to mask muscle pain, which could cause the exerciser to ignore this key pre-injury signal. He concludes: "The basic science and clinical evidence today suggests that stretching before exercise is more likely to cause injury than to prevent it."

by Hook It 26/09/12, 02:06 pm

Xara wrote:
Hook It wrote:
Xara wrote:Stretching wouuld not have helped. Warming up - yes, but stretching before an activity is counter productive.
XARA: My neighbor is a Dallas Cowboy player for the last 4 yrs, and he has explained to us that the warmup of a light cardio first has been a change in the last few years - then stretching/ joint movement on an as needed basis. First fill those muscles and lube those joints, then into the stretching/ extensions.

Funny or maybe not - he has had 2 hammy injuries

I remember one of the best articles I ever read on this subject in 'Runner's World'. Here's one of the primary excerpts:

"Stephen Thacker, M.D., the study's head author, assures me he has spent many years in public health surveillance, epidemiology, and infectious diseases. But, he says, obesity is costing the United States more than $100 billion a year, and the CDC believes that more exercise could reduce this healthcare burden.
"We want to promote physical activity," says Dr. Thacker, "but we have to look at all the things that either encourage or discourage exercise, such as the amount of time it takes to exercise, and the injuries you can get. We look for the science before we make any recommendations."

For Dr. Thacker's paper "The Impact of Stretching on Sports Injury Risk: A Systematic Review of the Literature," he and his colleagues pored over nearly 100 other published medical studies on the subject. Their key conclusions: stretching does increase flexibility; the highest-quality studies indicate that this increased flexibility doesn't prevent injuries; few athletes need extreme flexibility to perform their best (perhaps just gymnasts and figure skaters); and more injuries would be prevented by better warmups, by strength training, and by balance exercises, than by stretching.

Ian Shrier, M.D., a past president of the Canadian Society of Sports Medicine, has been drilling into the stretching literature since the early 1990s. In a 1999 paper titled "Stretching Before Exercise Does Not Reduce the Risk of Local Muscle Injury," Dr. Shrier lists five reasons why stretching shouldn't be expected to work. Among them: stretching won't change eccentric muscle activity (when a muscle simultaneously contracts and lengthens, as in downhill running), which is believed to cause most injuries; stretching can produce damage at the skeletal level; and stretching appears to mask muscle pain, which could cause the exerciser to ignore this key pre-injury signal. He concludes: "The basic science and clinical evidence today suggests that stretching before exercise is more likely to cause injury than to prevent it."

Nice depth. I espically like the more injuries would be prevented by better warmups, by strength training, and by balance exercises,, perfect timing for me to read and circulate this as I am setting up LAX cross training for our club now. Thanks -

by Hook It 26/09/12, 02:10 pm

Blank77 wrote:
Xara wrote:Stretching wouuld not have helped. Warming up - yes, but stretching before an activity is counter productive.

For some reason I have the image in my head of jim Carey warming up before basketball in Cable Guy.

my favorite is Ace Ventura - Pet Detective and the talking butt....

by soccerpop76 26/09/12, 03:27 pm

I guess I'm not questioning the stretching exercises as much as I am questioning with to what extent do you communicate with the school that your kid is already pushing herself physically in other after school sports and you are trying to make sure for the well being of your kid, to monitor any signs that she may be tired, sore, or hurt. Neither of them good to have for any kind of training or exercise. A whole other forum could be started on what's the best way to stretch, sorry to confuse my questioning.

by dse 26/09/12, 04:08 pm

My daughter has volleyball practice at 6:45 am which ends at 8:15. Then she has Athletics for 1st period which starts at 8:45. In Athletics they do PC training. At the beginning of the school year, after Athletics roll call and plenty of time for her muscles to cool down she pulled her hamstring.

In our case the coach was very cooperative in letting our daughter sit out for a week to promote healing. I am still irritated about the amount of time in which her muscles cooled down and then going straight into their class routine-the hamstring pull was unnecessary. While it may not be a serious injury it is painful and can lasts for weeks to months if not taken care of.

by Hook It 26/09/12, 04:10 pm

soccerpop76 wrote:I guess I'm not questioning the stretching exercises as much as I am questioning with to what extent do you communicate with the school that your kid is already pushing herself physically in other after school sports and you are trying to make sure for the well being of your kid, to monitor any signs that she may be tired, sore, or hurt. Neither of them good to have for any kind of training or exercise. A whole other forum could be started on what's the best way to stretch, sorry to confuse my questioning.

Stretching is not the answer... is she has a symptom figure it out and treat it... you will get huge productivity from your DD when she is feeling good. Mine goes to a great kids Chiropractor, we also have many solutions for getting the lactic acid out of her muscles...less pain = more gains...etc

For sure every kid is different and needs different attention. The school sports for the most part are not intense - if your DD likes it you won't hear any complaining - if you are hearing something then dig into that young mind and find out what she is thinking and what she wants.....

My DD has blown me away with her drive, but when she does not want something - forget it.... She is busy; Soccer, Swimming, and she competes in Sprint Tri's (finished the Cavman in about ~90min - next one coming is the MONSTER) I cannot keep up - but she is the one pushing me out the door to be on time. If she wasn't trust me there is some DVR show waiting for my lazy ass.

by Joe scafone 26/09/12, 04:41 pm

I say sue them. Do they not realize what this has done to your DD soccer career? It has to be worth millions.

by soccerpop76 26/09/12, 04:53 pm

Joe scafone wrote:I say sue them. Do they not realize what this has done to your DD soccer career? It has to be worth millions.

Nah, it's not worth millions, but it sure feels like we spent millions!! It's starting to cut into my sunflower seed fund...hey Joe BTW what new flavors have you and your sideline buddy have these days?? Didn't care to much for the dill.

by Joe scafone 26/09/12, 05:01 pm

soccerpop76 wrote:
Joe scafone wrote:I say sue them. Do they not realize what this has done to your DD soccer career? It has to be worth millions.
Nah, it's not worth millions, but it sure feels like we spent millions!! It's starting to cut into my sunflower seed fund...hey Joe BTW what new flavors have you and your sideline buddy have these days?? Didn't care to much for the dill.

Those flavors taste nasty. Salt & Pepper is the choice these days.

by my2cents 26/09/12, 08:10 pm

soccerpop76 wrote:I guess I'm not questioning the stretching exercises as much as I am questioning with to what extent do you communicate with the school that your kid is already pushing herself physically in other after school sports and you are trying to make sure for the well being of your kid, to monitor any signs that she may be tired, sore, or hurt. Neither of them good to have for any kind of training or exercise. A whole other forum could be started on what's the best way to stretch, sorry to confuse my questioning.

Pop, you need to be the one to determine the appropriate level. The coach is first and foremost an educator employeed by the ISD. As such he/she should be accessable within reason. We pay taxes, they work for us. It is up to you , or if possible your DD, to communicate her schedule and any injury or over use issues.

by DoubleDDRedux 26/09/12, 08:23 pm

Hook It wrote:
Blank77 wrote:
Xara wrote:Stretching wouuld not have helped. Warming up - yes, but stretching before an activity is counter productive.

For some reason I have the image in my head of jim Carey warming up before basketball in Cable Guy.
my favorite is Ace Ventura - Pet Detective and the talking butt....

by ekkeeper1 26/09/12, 09:08 pm

Why is that teachers a PE teacher if they do not know that you need to warm up and stretch before physical activity. Just saying... i feel like thats pretty common since. In the classes I took in health, kinesiology etc all you usually have to take to be a physical education teacher should know you cant workout with cold muscles. prob more important since its a possibility some of the other kids are less active and they would need to be taught to stretch properly before exercise. maybe static stretching should not have been used but they could have done dynamic or a combination of dynamic and static stretching and muscles be adequately warmed.

by driftingwolf 26/09/12, 09:22 pm

The real answer is to ask your DD listen to her body and learn control, when to take it easy in PE as well as her soccer trainings/games.

Besides lack of warmup, she might have done the lunge a little too quick and/or out of the right form. Be aware because of her soccer, her muscle might be tight, thus needed more warmup than others.

But lunge is a little serious workout especially when one is not used to it. I wouldn't prescribe it to rec students. Razz

by Guest 26/09/12, 10:30 pm

Confidential to Soccer Pop: You want to safely turn her two week recovery into 4-5 days? One word. Creatine. Do the research.

by Soccerdood 27/09/12, 08:54 am

Some high school coaches have issues with select sports and some promote select sports as a means to having a better school team. My DD played select soccer and made varsity at school as a freshman. That year she got 1st team all district. The coach promoted and supported select soccer. The next year with a different coach the kids were told school soccer was their first priority over any outside team. Later my DD told her that her select team was priority due to interest in scholorship. College coaches do not come to high school games anymore. The coach got mad and called me about it. I explained the same things my DD did but she did not agree. Then came tryouts. My DD did not make varsity or JV and did not play for the school that year. The next year the coach asked her to come back to soccer because she realized the team needed her talent but she declined. She never played for the school again.

Now it is a few years down the road, although that was a bad experience, I believe she is a better person for it. It tougheded her up to the worlds issues.

by Gunner9 27/09/12, 09:26 am

The wise high school soccer coaches embrace club players. In fact, in the district my dd's played in, almost every starter of every team was a D1 player and I know many club players who couldn't even make the HS team. Also, most of the HS coaches coached club as well.

The landscape has changed dramatically from when I first refereed UIL and most teams were coached by asst. football coaches.

by nutmeg 28/09/12, 10:37 pm

Here is my thoughts as a HS soccer coach...

If I have a club player (or any player for that matter) who has an injury that happened outside of school, I absolutely want to here from the player and/or the parent. Especially this time of year (soccer off-season), I do not want players doing anything that will potentially hamper them long term, for the player's sake, our team's sake, and her club team's sake. As far as communication, I try to create some type of relationship with the club coaches for any of the girls in my program in part because I'd like to have a two-way street of communication between the club coach and myself just in case that are any conflicts or concerns that may arise. Ironically, as much as I get the fact that some HS coaches are anti-club soccer, I have found that their are a handful of club coaches out there who want nothing to do with HS coaches.

Now, if I were a HS varsity volleyball coach who has a club soccer player, I may have a different perspective on things during the week of a key district volleyball match.

As far as the stretching is concerned, ALWAYS get some lite movement in before we start our stretching and plyometrics.

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Injury Prevention By Communicating w/ DD School

Injury Prevention By Communicating w/ DD School

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