CFBAL GAMES 2/10

ZenFutbol wrote:

Shelby427 wrote:

slrsoccer wrote:"I think the issue should be one of reaching a certain set of technical abilities that decides when one moves up to the next level of field play."

Shelby - the level of technical ability has nothing to do with moving up to the 11v11. It has everything to do with the size and speed of the players.

The thought process of 7v7, 8v8 or 9v9 is just a condensed version of the real thing. Speed of play, time on the ball and ability to make penetrating passes should be about the same for 7-8 year olds playing 7v7 as professionals playing 11v11.

The amount of touches a player gets in small sided games is a by product of the size of the field and the number of players on the field. I too agree that 11v11 for this age is too young and even further agree that 9v9 on a full size field is ridiculous and flys in the face of what the kids are trying to learn.

I agree that 11v11 at U9 is too young. I don't mind the idea of 9v9 on the medium field for the kids who can hit the back post on the corner kicks and clear the goal box ect...

My point is that age alone should not be a factor and 7v7 until U14-16 is ridiculous.

Keep in mind the U9s of today even when playing larger sided games, are getting more touches than kids 10 years ago because they are playing plenty of small sided in practice, futsal, and 3v3 tournaments ect.

7v7 until U14-U16? Did I miss this suggestion somewhere along this serpentine thread--which is possible--or is this simply an example of Straw Man? I do believe the ages in question were U8-U10, yes? Your assertion above, that younger NTX players today are getting more touches and are more technically sound than players the same age were a few years ago--and quite a few older players now, I believe you said--while very supportable, does nothing really to address that bigger fields do nothing really for developing little players, despite how amazingly technical or even tactically brilliant they may be. Quite the contrary, in fact. There's more than enough time for 11v11 later; why rush it?

In post #13 wolf suggested no 11v11 until U14. I have also seen people on here advocate not until U16. It is a bit subjective... why not until college which 99% of these girls will never see (playing soccer).

As I said U9 is too early but you will never have coaches going into select with a new format the first year. If you wanted to push back 11v11 until U12, then you would need to push select back to U14 and in truth... that might not be a bad idea.

Shelby427 wrote:

ZenFutbol wrote:

Shelby427 wrote:

slrsoccer wrote:"I think the issue should be one of reaching a certain set of technical abilities that decides when one moves up to the next level of field play."

Shelby - the level of technical ability has nothing to do with moving up to the 11v11. It has everything to do with the size and speed of the players.

The thought process of 7v7, 8v8 or 9v9 is just a condensed version of the real thing. Speed of play, time on the ball and ability to make penetrating passes should be about the same for 7-8 year olds playing 7v7 as professionals playing 11v11.

The amount of touches a player gets in small sided games is a by product of the size of the field and the number of players on the field. I too agree that 11v11 for this age is too young and even further agree that 9v9 on a full size field is ridiculous and flys in the face of what the kids are trying to learn.

I agree that 11v11 at U9 is too young. I don't mind the idea of 9v9 on the medium field for the kids who can hit the back post on the corner kicks and clear the goal box ect...

My point is that age alone should not be a factor and 7v7 until U14-16 is ridiculous.

Keep in mind the U9s of today even when playing larger sided games, are getting more touches than kids 10 years ago because they are playing plenty of small sided in practice, futsal, and 3v3 tournaments ect.

7v7 until U14-U16? Did I miss this suggestion somewhere along this serpentine thread--which is possible--or is this simply an example of Straw Man? I do believe the ages in question were U8-U10, yes? Your assertion above, that younger NTX players today are getting more touches and are more technically sound than players the same age were a few years ago--and quite a few older players now, I believe you said--while very supportable, does nothing really to address that bigger fields do nothing really for developing little players, despite how amazingly technical or even tactically brilliant they may be. Quite the contrary, in fact. There's more than enough time for 11v11 later; why rush it?

In post #13 wolf suggested no 11v11 until U14. I have also seen people on here advocate not until U16. It is a bit subjective... why not until college which 99% of these girls will never see (playing soccer).

As I said U9 is too early but you will never have coaches going into select with a new format the first year. If you wanted to push back 11v11 until U12, then you would need to push select back to U14 and in truth... that might not be a bad idea.

I'm in.

ZenFutbol wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:I was one of the anti 11v11, abolitionist parents back in the day. You couldn't get me off my soapbox about how NTX must be bassackwards having kids running around on high school stadium fields with 11v11 at 9 and 10.

After watching our kids go through it, I'm not so sure there was that much wrong with it. Comparing 9v9 to 11v11, the # of touches an individual player gets will be driven far more by the team's playing style and their skill & awareness on and off the ball. I've seen kick and chase teams playing futsal (and that's 5v5). I've also seen young teams playing two / three touch soccer in 11v11 because most the team was skilled enough to play with their head up. The format is not the driving factor, it's more about the amount of time a kid spends playing the game and perfecting their craft.

The size of the field plays a role. How can it not for second and third graders? And while I agree that the style of play is huge, which is why my daughter plays where she does, the same club yours plays with, by the way, the same player on the same team, playing 2-3 touch soccer, at U9, let's say, playing 9v9 on a small field will get significantly more touches over the course of a season than that player would were she to play 11v11 on a full size field. I see no way around it.

I agree with that. If all things are equal, smaller field / fewer players = more touches. My point is the # of touches in that one league game per week is MINISCULE compared to the # of touches a player needs to develop. If they only touch the ball at twice weekly practice and 3v3 as their once per week leauge game, they still aren't going to develop as quickly as those players who are on the ball most every day. I just believe the format of the league game is a small factor in the big picture.

The teams that go 11v11 early do get somewhat of a short-term tactical advantage. The players learn where to be and how to move as a group. Looks like it takes 4-6 months for them to get it so that advantage diminishes quickly. Most the '01 age group are 12-years-old now, and I doubt anyone who hasn't followed them could watch them play and tell you who played 11v11 at U9/U10.

One interesting note: I was reading the south texas forum a few months back and their parents were complaining about getting handled by dallas teams. A good number chimed in that they don't start 11v11 early enough.

3-4-3 wrote:

ZenFutbol wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:I was one of the anti 11v11, abolitionist parents back in the day. You couldn't get me off my soapbox about how NTX must be bassackwards having kids running around on high school stadium fields with 11v11 at 9 and 10.

After watching our kids go through it, I'm not so sure there was that much wrong with it. Comparing 9v9 to 11v11, the # of touches an individual player gets will be driven far more by the team's playing style and their skill & awareness on and off the ball. I've seen kick and chase teams playing futsal (and that's 5v5). I've also seen young teams playing two / three touch soccer in 11v11 because most the team was skilled enough to play with their head up. The format is not the driving factor, it's more about the amount of time a kid spends playing the game and perfecting their craft.

The size of the field plays a role. How can it not for second and third graders? And while I agree that the style of play is huge, which is why my daughter plays where she does, the same club yours plays with, by the way, the same player on the same team, playing 2-3 touch soccer, at U9, let's say, playing 9v9 on a small field will get significantly more touches over the course of a season than that player would were she to play 11v11 on a full size field. I see no way around it.

I agree with that. If all things are equal, smaller field / fewer players = more touches. My point is the # of touches in that one league game per week is MINISCULE compared to the # of touches a player needs to develop. If they only touch the ball at twice weekly practice and 3v3 as their once per week leauge game, they still aren't going to develop as quickly as those players who are on the ball most every day. I just believe the format of the league game is a small factor in the big picture.

The teams that go 11v11 early do get somewhat of a short-term tactical advantage. The players learn where to be and how to move as a group. Looks like it takes 4-6 months for them to get it so that advantage diminishes quickly. Most the '01 age group are 12-years-old now, and I doubt anyone who hasn't followed them could watch them play and tell you who played 11v11 at U9/U10.

One interesting note: I was reading the south texas forum a few months back and their parents were complaining about getting handled by dallas teams. A good number chimed in that they don't start 11v11 early enough.

Tell South Texas if they knew their stuff it has nothing to do with playing 11v11 early. Lets take SRSA, they've just been to Vegas and won (reasonably easy)playing 8v8 and yet have been playing 11v11 for a good while yet. So how were they able to achieve this? Its because 1v1 they were/are better than the opposition. Forget they have been playing this format or that formation, the game is about 1v1 and the better you are at attacking and defending than your opposition the more chance you have at winning. So you will you be better at 1v1 playing U9 players on a full size field where you might not actually come into contact with ANYONE until half time! Of course not
Tell South Texas to develop better technical players before they start complaining its because of Nth TX playing 11v11

Triumph FC wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

ZenFutbol wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:I was one of the anti 11v11, abolitionist parents back in the day. You couldn't get me off my soapbox about how NTX must be bassackwards having kids running around on high school stadium fields with 11v11 at 9 and 10.

After watching our kids go through it, I'm not so sure there was that much wrong with it. Comparing 9v9 to 11v11, the # of touches an individual player gets will be driven far more by the team's playing style and their skill & awareness on and off the ball. I've seen kick and chase teams playing futsal (and that's 5v5). I've also seen young teams playing two / three touch soccer in 11v11 because most the team was skilled enough to play with their head up. The format is not the driving factor, it's more about the amount of time a kid spends playing the game and perfecting their craft.

The size of the field plays a role. How can it not for second and third graders? And while I agree that the style of play is huge, which is why my daughter plays where she does, the same club yours plays with, by the way, the same player on the same team, playing 2-3 touch soccer, at U9, let's say, playing 9v9 on a small field will get significantly more touches over the course of a season than that player would were she to play 11v11 on a full size field. I see no way around it.

I agree with that. If all things are equal, smaller field / fewer players = more touches. My point is the # of touches in that one league game per week is MINISCULE compared to the # of touches a player needs to develop. If they only touch the ball at twice weekly practice and 3v3 as their once per week leauge game, they still aren't going to develop as quickly as those players who are on the ball most every day. I just believe the format of the league game is a small factor in the big picture.

The teams that go 11v11 early do get somewhat of a short-term tactical advantage. The players learn where to be and how to move as a group. Looks like it takes 4-6 months for them to get it so that advantage diminishes quickly. Most the '01 age group are 12-years-old now, and I doubt anyone who hasn't followed them could watch them play and tell you who played 11v11 at U9/U10.

One interesting note: I was reading the south texas forum a few months back and their parents were complaining about getting handled by dallas teams. A good number chimed in that they don't start 11v11 early enough.

Tell South Texas if they knew their stuff it has nothing to do with playing 11v11 early. Lets take SRSA, they've just been to Vegas and won (reasonably easy)playing 8v8 and yet have been playing 11v11 for a good while yet. So how were they able to achieve this? Its because 1v1 they were/are better than the opposition. Forget they have been playing this format or that formation, the game is about 1v1 and the better you are at attacking and defending than your opposition the more chance you have at winning. So you will you be better at 1v1 playing U9 players on a full size field where you might not actually come into contact with ANYONE until half time! Of course not
Tell South Texas to develop better technical players before they start complaining its because of Nth TX playing 11v11

South Texas is near and dear to my heart as I am from there originally. They remain behind NTX simply because they dont begin training their DDs and BBs in an advanced format until YEARS after ours started here.

Yes, they play 5v5, 6v6, 7v7, for longer than ours do, but they are not academy teams in nature. They are true rec teams for the most part with all degrees of skill and commitment. This holds them back. Nothing against rec. at all, but that is their issue down there. Good players can be developed in rec with the proper coaching, but proper coaching is required, without it they will reamin behind us.

You have your Lonestars, Challenge, and Houston Dynamo who begin to show a semblance of academy training at U9, definetly U10.

We have 06s here in NTX that are training on skills that they just begin to see down there at U10. Its not the playing format, its the lack of training that puts them behind.

Androfan aka Kicksfan wrote:

Triumph FC wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

ZenFutbol wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:I was one of the anti 11v11, abolitionist parents back in the day. You couldn't get me off my soapbox about how NTX must be bassackwards having kids running around on high school stadium fields with 11v11 at 9 and 10.

After watching our kids go through it, I'm not so sure there was that much wrong with it. Comparing 9v9 to 11v11, the # of touches an individual player gets will be driven far more by the team's playing style and their skill & awareness on and off the ball. I've seen kick and chase teams playing futsal (and that's 5v5). I've also seen young teams playing two / three touch soccer in 11v11 because most the team was skilled enough to play with their head up. The format is not the driving factor, it's more about the amount of time a kid spends playing the game and perfecting their craft.

The size of the field plays a role. How can it not for second and third graders? And while I agree that the style of play is huge, which is why my daughter plays where she does, the same club yours plays with, by the way, the same player on the same team, playing 2-3 touch soccer, at U9, let's say, playing 9v9 on a small field will get significantly more touches over the course of a season than that player would were she to play 11v11 on a full size field. I see no way around it.

I agree with that. If all things are equal, smaller field / fewer players = more touches. My point is the # of touches in that one league game per week is MINISCULE compared to the # of touches a player needs to develop. If they only touch the ball at twice weekly practice and 3v3 as their once per week leauge game, they still aren't going to develop as quickly as those players who are on the ball most every day. I just believe the format of the league game is a small factor in the big picture.

The teams that go 11v11 early do get somewhat of a short-term tactical advantage. The players learn where to be and how to move as a group. Looks like it takes 4-6 months for them to get it so that advantage diminishes quickly. Most the '01 age group are 12-years-old now, and I doubt anyone who hasn't followed them could watch them play and tell you who played 11v11 at U9/U10.

One interesting note: I was reading the south texas forum a few months back and their parents were complaining about getting handled by dallas teams. A good number chimed in that they don't start 11v11 early enough.

Tell South Texas if they knew their stuff it has nothing to do with playing 11v11 early. Lets take SRSA, they've just been to Vegas and won (reasonably easy)playing 8v8 and yet have been playing 11v11 for a good while yet. So how were they able to achieve this? Its because 1v1 they were/are better than the opposition. Forget they have been playing this format or that formation, the game is about 1v1 and the better you are at attacking and defending than your opposition the more chance you have at winning. So you will you be better at 1v1 playing U9 players on a full size field where you might not actually come into contact with ANYONE until half time! Of course not
Tell South Texas to develop better technical players before they start complaining its because of Nth TX playing 11v11

South Texas is near and dear to my heart as I am from there originally. They remain behind NTX simply because they dont begin training their DDs and BBs in an advanced format until YEARS after ours started here.

Yes, they play 5v5, 6v6, 7v7, for longer than ours do, but they are not academy teams in nature. They are true rec teams for the most part with all degrees of skill and commitment. This holds them back. Nothing against rec. at all, but that is their issue down there. Good players can be developed in rec with the proper coaching, but proper coaching is required, without it they will reamin behind us.

You have your Lonestars, Challenge, and Houston Dynamo who begin to show a semblance of academy training at U9, definetly U10.

We have 06s here in NTX that are training on skills that they just begin to see down there at U10. Its not the playing format, its the lack of training that puts them behind.

Of course my comment was very tongue in cheek but I know coaches that work down there and they told me that our academy (U10 and below) is more advanced than theirs. I keep telling them that their players might last longer than ours though!

Triumph FC wrote:

Androfan aka Kicksfan wrote:

Triumph FC wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

ZenFutbol wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:I was one of the anti 11v11, abolitionist parents back in the day. You couldn't get me off my soapbox about how NTX must be bassackwards having kids running around on high school stadium fields with 11v11 at 9 and 10.

After watching our kids go through it, I'm not so sure there was that much wrong with it. Comparing 9v9 to 11v11, the # of touches an individual player gets will be driven far more by the team's playing style and their skill & awareness on and off the ball. I've seen kick and chase teams playing futsal (and that's 5v5). I've also seen young teams playing two / three touch soccer in 11v11 because most the team was skilled enough to play with their head up. The format is not the driving factor, it's more about the amount of time a kid spends playing the game and perfecting their craft.

The size of the field plays a role. How can it not for second and third graders? And while I agree that the style of play is huge, which is why my daughter plays where she does, the same club yours plays with, by the way, the same player on the same team, playing 2-3 touch soccer, at U9, let's say, playing 9v9 on a small field will get significantly more touches over the course of a season than that player would were she to play 11v11 on a full size field. I see no way around it.

I agree with that. If all things are equal, smaller field / fewer players = more touches. My point is the # of touches in that one league game per week is MINISCULE compared to the # of touches a player needs to develop. If they only touch the ball at twice weekly practice and 3v3 as their once per week leauge game, they still aren't going to develop as quickly as those players who are on the ball most every day. I just believe the format of the league game is a small factor in the big picture.

The teams that go 11v11 early do get somewhat of a short-term tactical advantage. The players learn where to be and how to move as a group. Looks like it takes 4-6 months for them to get it so that advantage diminishes quickly. Most the '01 age group are 12-years-old now, and I doubt anyone who hasn't followed them could watch them play and tell you who played 11v11 at U9/U10.

One interesting note: I was reading the south texas forum a few months back and their parents were complaining about getting handled by dallas teams. A good number chimed in that they don't start 11v11 early enough.

Tell South Texas if they knew their stuff it has nothing to do with playing 11v11 early. Lets take SRSA, they've just been to Vegas and won (reasonably easy)playing 8v8 and yet have been playing 11v11 for a good while yet. So how were they able to achieve this? Its because 1v1 they were/are better than the opposition. Forget they have been playing this format or that formation, the game is about 1v1 and the better you are at attacking and defending than your opposition the more chance you have at winning. So you will you be better at 1v1 playing U9 players on a full size field where you might not actually come into contact with ANYONE until half time! Of course not
Tell South Texas to develop better technical players before they start complaining its because of Nth TX playing 11v11

South Texas is near and dear to my heart as I am from there originally. They remain behind NTX simply because they dont begin training their DDs and BBs in an advanced format until YEARS after ours started here.

Yes, they play 5v5, 6v6, 7v7, for longer than ours do, but they are not academy teams in nature. They are true rec teams for the most part with all degrees of skill and commitment. This holds them back. Nothing against rec. at all, but that is their issue down there. Good players can be developed in rec with the proper coaching, but proper coaching is required, without it they will reamin behind us.

You have your Lonestars, Challenge, and Houston Dynamo who begin to show a semblance of academy training at U9, definetly U10.

We have 06s here in NTX that are training on skills that they just begin to see down there at U10. Its not the playing format, its the lack of training that puts them behind.

Of course my comment was very tongue in cheek but I know coaches that work down there and they told me that our academy (U10 and below) is more advanced than theirs. I keep telling them that their players might last longer than ours though!

You cant say they lasted longer when they dont even get a foot in the door. I would be curious to see what the stats are comparing this years signing class to the STX signing class. Numbers that committed, numbers by Division, etc...