advancement

After about how many games or by looking at current results who is mathematicly out of contention for advancement from D3 to D2 amd D2 to D1.

Well, if you asked the top five of each division right now, they would all say that they will advance. If you ask the bottom five, they will say they still have a chance to move up in the ranks. I am not even going to hazzard a guess at this point myself.

Actually, there are rules around advancement. This seemed a bit confusing to me, but here goes.

Moving Into U14:
(1) Byes will be based on total points earned throughout the entire soccer year.
(2) All Division I & II teams plus the 7 best Division III teams get a Bye back into the League in either Division I, II or III.
(3) The 1st through 7th place U13 Division I teams and the 1st and 2nd place U13
Division II teams from the previous soccer year will have earned a Bye into U14
Division I. The 8th and 9th place U13 Division I teams, the 3rd through 8th place
U13 Division II teams, and the 1st and 2nd place U13 Division III teams from the
previous soccer year will have earned a Bye into U14 Division II. The 9th and 10
th place U13 Division II team and the 3rd through 7th place U13 Division III teams
from the previous soccer year will have earned a Bye into U14 Division III.
(4) The Qualifying Tournament will identify the remaining 3 teams to play in U14
Division III in the fall.

Now this doesn not take into account those teams that will leave for ECNL from Division 1.

If 5 teams leave for ECNL, how will advancement and relegation work? In D1, do the 5 ECNL clubs keep their D1 byes? If not, can there be any relegation in D1 or 2?... Even in D3, without ECNL advancement they're calling for 3 QT spots, would the top 5 move up? Will the Mid Atlantic current stall causing another ice age? Is Einstein's theory of relativity a lie? What next, will they take away Pluto's planetary status?!

InaB, Wandering minds need to know!!

Ok I was told that the top 5 from D2 got D1 and the top 5 from D3 go to D2. So is this not correct.

Hi GoGo you are correct. The five ECNL teams leave Division 1 and do not retain a bye which means that the bottom five D1 teams move up to the top of Division 1, the top five Division 2 teams move up to D1 and the top five D3 teams move up to Division 2. That leaves five (or four depending on if we have 9 or 10 team slots delegated by LH)slots to be filled through the QT.

It is my understanding that the 5 clubs who participate in ECNL have a choice if they want to play in both leagues. If they decide to do both, they can move a team from another division to fill the spot.

I was told the same as catdaddy.

Well, from what I was told, they cannot move another team into their spot and play in both that way. The top Division 1 team moves to ECNL to play and cannot save its spot by moving another team up to fill it. It essentially loses its bye. Now if there are other club teams in Division 1 or who move up to Division 1, then that team essentially becomes the premier team in LH for that club but it is not the same team that moved out. (My head is getting dizzy trying to explain this.) If anyone else knows it better (and different) please feel free to step in and all over me.

The way I understand it is like this. There are 5 ECNL clubs. Sting, Solar, FC Dallas, Defeeters and Texans. These 5 clubs will each have a rostered ECNL team. They can also keep a team in D1 (double rostering some girls) so that may not leave 5 open spots. If for instance, the Texans (which only has 1 D1 team) rosters an ECNL team with the team they have now plus others joining the team, and has some extras and the coach wants to keep his D1 spot plus his ECNL team, he can do that.

This is taken from the Lake Highlands rules. For the past couple of years the 5 ecnl clubs have given up their bye. I suppose those clubs could change the way they have been doing things and try to keep their byes.

2.)a. If a club registers a team for a non-North Texas league, without that team
also playing in a regularly scheduled Division of Lake Highlands Girls Classic
League they will lose the bye most closely associated with the group of girls leaving
the league. For example, if the majority of the girls are leaving from Division I, a
Division I Bye will be forfeited by that club in each applicable age group. The
Lake Highlands Girls Classic League will make available participation in a
separate divisionwith an abbreviated schedule and reduced league fee if a
sufficient number of teams agrees to participate with sufficient notice for the
coordination and scheduling of that division. The final decision as to whether or
not a separate division would be viable will rest with the Lake Highlands Girls
Classic League Board of Directors.
Open spots that are created by the above outlined situation, will be filled as
follows:
Any Division II team that was being promoted will still be promoted.
Division I teams that would have normally been relegated will be kept in division I
in order of their full year standings from the prior year, as needed to fill the
Division I spots.
If more teams are needed, the teams that earned Division II byes will be promoted
based on their full year standings from the prior year, as needed to fill the Division
I spots.
Division II spots will be filled in the same order.
In Division III, additional byes will be granted to returning Lake Highlands teams,
up to the number of byes forfeited, with remaining spots being filled in the
Qualifying Tournament.

This is from lhgcl QT last year for 99's.
LAKE HIGHLANDS GIRLS CLASSIC LEAGUE 2012 QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT PLAYING FORMAT FOR UNDER 14 (99’s)
20 Teams trying out for 6 spots in Division III ROUND 1: (30 games)
Teams will be seeded into 5 Brackets of 4.

Thanks Beast and Good Sport.

Ina and gogirls are correct. The 5 ECNL clubs lose their spots in LH. And everyone cascades up 5 spots to fill in.

Summation For D3: (?)
-top 5 advance to D2-Got it
-how many of the bottom 5 teams....
a) keep their bye
b) get relegated and have to re qualify?

Packrabbit wrote:Summation For D3: (?)
-top 5 advance to D2-Got it
-how many of the bottom 5 teams....
a) keep their bye
b) get relegated and have to re qualify?

The bottom 5 will ALL keep their bye.

Packrabbit wrote:Summation For D3: (?)
-top 5 advance to D2-Got it
-how many of the bottom 5 teams....
a) keep their bye
b) get relegated and have to re qualify?

I believe that the rule is that as additional spots open up due to additional teams getting promoted and/or forfeiting a bye, that those spots go to the next team in the standings from the previous year.

So... if the top 5 advance to D2 due to spots vacated by ECNL teams in D1/D2, then the bottom 5 would get the 5 "byes" and would not have to requalify. The remaining 5 spots would be filled via the QT with "new" teams.

bwgophers wrote:

Packrabbit wrote:Summation For D3: (?)
-top 5 advance to D2-Got it
-how many of the bottom 5 teams....
a) keep their bye
b) get relegated and have to re qualify?

I believe that the rule is that as additional spots open up due to additional teams getting promoted and/or forfeiting a bye, that those spots go to the next team in the standings from the previous year.

So... if the top 5 advance to D2 due to spots vacated by ECNL teams in D1/D2, then the bottom 5 would get the 5 "byes" and would not have to requalify. The remaining 5 spots would be filled via the QT with "new" teams.

Gophers-

This is what I understand as well, but I have a question that throws a wrench in the plan...Do the ECNL clubs' top team (or a combo from tryouts etc-so a full roster each) just form as ECNL that don't play any LH games, or do those kids get dual rostered? Can they even dual roster??

In essence, are there 5 teams gone, or are there occasions when those 5 teams still have a LH presence?

dadof3 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

Packrabbit wrote:Summation For D3: (?)
-top 5 advance to D2-Got it
-how many of the bottom 5 teams....
a) keep their bye
b) get relegated and have to re qualify?

I believe that the rule is that as additional spots open up due to additional teams getting promoted and/or forfeiting a bye, that those spots go to the next team in the standings from the previous year.

So... if the top 5 advance to D2 due to spots vacated by ECNL teams in D1/D2, then the bottom 5 would get the 5 "byes" and would not have to requalify. The remaining 5 spots would be filled via the QT with "new" teams.

Gophers-

This is what I understand as well, but I have a question that throws a wrench in the plan...Do the ECNL clubs' top team (or a combo from tryouts etc-so a full roster each) just form as ECNL that don't play any LH games, or do those kids get dual rostered? Can they even dual roster??

Not Gophers, but:

ECNL is a completely different entity. An ECNL team doesn't have to start out as a LHGCL team. If an ECNL club were to desire, they could create a brand new team with brand new players that had never played a game before.

Usually though, the club's top LHGCL team forms the core of the ECNL team, with additional players added from tryouts within the club, as well as outside the club.

Since the two organizations are separate, any of the players may be dual rostered, so players may play on teams in both leagues. It would be difficult, though for a single team to try to do both due to conflicts, even if it were desirable to do so, which I'm not sure it would be.

My understanding is you can only dual roster a certain number of players.

Without knowing rosters, it is impossible for me to tell if anyone dual rosters. I know that the ECNL teams will draw players, but by the way I read it, a club could choose to keep their LH slot regardless of whether or not that team forms...For example, in D3 this year we saw a PPL2 team (Galaxy) move into a vacated club spot for a disbanded team without qualifying...

I will use the Texans as an example, but it works for ANY club...

By this rationale, let's say that Texans top team (D1#3) basically becomes their ECNL team...The next Texans team (D2#10) could move into the D1 spot vacated by the ECNL departure...The next Texans team (D3#7) could move into the D2 spot, then another Texans team could take the D3 spot...all that would do is leave another hole in the QT...

I know people have told me I am wrong, and that there will be 5 moving out, and 5 moving up as the cards fall...so what do I not see??

totalsoccer wrote:My understanding is you can only dual roster a certain number of players.

I think there were limitations to the "club pass" system that was used in State Cup this past year, but I'm not aware of any limitation for dual rostered players. The teams I'm familiar with have never attempted to dual roster more than 2 or 3 players so I never had to research it, so if there is, I've just not run across it.

From a practicality standpoint, since there are no interconnections that I'm aware of between the ECNL/US Club Soccer roster system and the North Texas roster system, I'm not sure how anyone would could monitor who or how many are dual rostered.

totalsoccer-

From what I understand, you could take a completely new team and fill the club spot though...(that was at least the rumor about Galaxy on these hallowed boards?!?) So what keeps clubs from doing it at D1 with ECNL?

Sting could have a couple from each of their D1 teams and still maintain several D1 rosters...right?

dadof3 wrote:Without knowing rosters, it is impossible for me to tell if anyone dual rosters. I know that the ECNL teams will draw players, but by the way I read it, a club could choose to keep their LH slot regardless of whether or not that team forms...For example, in D3 this year we saw a PPL2 team (Galaxy) move into a vacated club spot for a disbanded team without qualifying...

I will use the Texans as an example, but it works for ANY club...

By this rationale, let's say that Texans top team (D1#3) basically becomes their ECNL team...The next Texans team (D2#10) could move into the D1 spot vacated by the ECNL departure...The next Texans team (D3#7) could move into the D2 spot, then another Texans team could take the D3 spot...all that would do is leave another hole in the QT...

I know people have told me I am wrong, and that there will be 5 moving out, and 5 moving up as the cards fall...so what do I not see??

LHGCL is pretty clear in their bylaws: if a team registers for a non-NTSSA league (this would mean ECNL), the club forfeits the bye.

dadof3 wrote:Without knowing rosters, it is impossible for me to tell if anyone dual rosters. I know that the ECNL teams will draw players, but by the way I read it, a club could choose to keep their LH slot regardless of whether or not that team forms...For example, in D3 this year we saw a PPL2 team (Galaxy) move into a vacated club spot for a disbanded team without qualifying...

I will use the Texans as an example, but it works for ANY club...

By this rationale, let's say that Texans top team (D1#3) basically becomes their ECNL team...The next Texans team (D2#10) could move into the D1 spot vacated by the ECNL departure...The next Texans team (D3#7) could move into the D2 spot, then another Texans team could take the D3 spot...all that would do is leave another hole in the QT...

I know people have told me I am wrong, and that there will be 5 moving out, and 5 moving up as the cards fall...so what do I not see??

What you're not seeing is the language in the LHGCL rule that was quoted earlier in the thread. If a team departs the league for another league (i.e. LHGCL D1 goes to ECNL), the club no longer retains the bye.

2.)a. If a club registers a team for a non-North Texas league, without that team also playing in a regularly scheduled Division of Lake Highlands Girls Classic League they will lose the bye most closely associated with the group of girls leaving the league. For example, if the majority of the girls are leaving from Division I, a Division I Bye will be forfeited by that club in each applicable age group. The Lake Highlands Girls Classic League will make available participation in a separate divisionwith an abbreviated schedule and reduced league fee if a sufficient number of teams agrees to participate with sufficient notice for the coordination and scheduling of that division. The final decision as to whether or not a separate division would be viable will rest with the Lake Highlands Girls Classic League Board of Directors.

Open spots that are created by the above outlined situation, will be filled as
follows:

Any Division II team that was being promoted will still be promoted.
Division I teams that would have normally been relegated will be kept in division I in order of their full year standings from the prior year, as needed to fill the Division I spots.

If more teams are needed, the teams that earned Division II byes will be promoted based on their full year standings from the prior year, as needed to fill the Division I spots.

Division II spots will be filled in the same order.

In Division III, additional byes will be granted to returning Lake Highlands teams, up to the number of byes forfeited, with remaining spots being filled in the Qualifying Tournament.

Gunner9 wrote:

dadof3 wrote:Without knowing rosters, it is impossible for me to tell if anyone dual rosters. I know that the ECNL teams will draw players, but by the way I read it, a club could choose to keep their LH slot regardless of whether or not that team forms...For example, in D3 this year we saw a PPL2 team (Galaxy) move into a vacated club spot for a disbanded team without qualifying...

I will use the Texans as an example, but it works for ANY club...

By this rationale, let's say that Texans top team (D1#3) basically becomes their ECNL team...The next Texans team (D2#10) could move into the D1 spot vacated by the ECNL departure...The next Texans team (D3#7) could move into the D2 spot, then another Texans team could take the D3 spot...all that would do is leave another hole in the QT...

I know people have told me I am wrong, and that there will be 5 moving out, and 5 moving up as the cards fall...so what do I not see??

LHGCL is pretty clear in their bylaws: if a team registers for a non-NTSSA league (this would mean ECNL), the club forfeits the bye.

Yes, I read that too, and it may be a moot point-in which case I am merely entertaining myself...but if it isn't the "team" that goes ECNL, say in Sting's case, since there are 4 in D1, 2 in D2, and 2 in D3...couldn't they keep all their byes? or is that somehow linked to the coach??