May - Aug 2013 Tournaments for 03's - Complete List with Teams

herradura wrote:

FCostanza wrote:Notice I mentioned both the King Tut and Puma so that's why I used the numbers 3-6 games, the number 4 falls between those two numbers. If I need to get you some flash cards to help you with your numbers I can look into getting some. The Puma Cup, at least according to the website, is an advancement tournament unless there aren't enough teams then it's simply a pool play tournament. So in order to save time I lumped both tournaments into my potential games pool.


So if you wanjt to discount what I'm saying, great, I don't care. If you want to try to find something smart to say to discredit what I said, great I look forward to your first smart post SP.

There are plenty of "top teams" playing the King Tut and will most likely benefit from good seeds at QT.

But in the case of SRSA, LP Elite, DTS it does not matter if they were all seeded dead last at QT, they will come out on top. They will get better work training and scrimmaging within rather than attending a tournament.

Its really not that complicated.

Now, Fever and other 10-20ish teams not attending? I will keep my "ducking competition" thoughts to myself on that topic...

Could not agree more!

"If you want to try to find something smart to say to discredit what I said, great I look forward to your first smart post SP."

you are doing an admirable job of that all by yourself....

Looks like there are 42 '03 girls teams showing as applied by my count. Any chance teams start getting declined due to the high numbers? Haven't paid attention to past numbers, but this seems like a huge number of applied teams.

I can't remember if there were 22 or 28 U11
teams last year....but one thing is for sure...this year's group is much larger
Hopefully, the TD can accommodate everyone with some creative scheduling

thatwasweird wrote:Looks like there are 42 '03 girls teams showing as applied by my count.  Any chance teams start getting declined due to the high numbers?  Haven't paid attention to past numbers, but this seems like a huge number of applied teams.

40 teams on the final list.

We know Fever decided not to play.  According to the list, Sting G is no longer playing.

Eight groups of 5.

SteveHolt! wrote:

thatwasweird wrote:Looks like there are 42 '03 girls teams showing as applied by my count.  Any chance teams start getting declined due to the high numbers?  Haven't paid attention to past numbers, but this seems like a huge number of applied teams.

40 teams on the final list.

We know Fever decided not to play.  According to the list, Sting G is no longer playing.

Eight groups of 5.

not smart neither team good enough to skip a ranking tournament...

silentparent wrote:

SteveHolt! wrote:

thatwasweird wrote:Looks like there are 42 '03 girls teams showing as applied by my count.  Any chance teams start getting declined due to the high numbers?  Haven't paid attention to past numbers, but this seems like a huge number of applied teams.

40 teams on the final list.

We know Fever decided not to play.  According to the list, Sting G is no longer playing.

Eight groups of 5.

not smart neither team good enough to skip a ranking tournament...

Seems the "trend" for these teams is to skip the seeding tournament, invite a mediocre 02 team to scrimmage and provide food and beverage service to the "seeding committee".

What a cop out... "its too close to QT.. What if our players get injured???"         "Besides, that is what SRSA is doing...."

herradura wrote:

silentparent wrote:

SteveHolt! wrote:

thatwasweird wrote:Looks like there are 42 '03 girls teams showing as applied by my count.  Any chance teams start getting declined due to the high numbers?  Haven't paid attention to past numbers, but this seems like a huge number of applied teams.

40 teams on the final list.

We know Fever decided not to play.  According to the list, Sting G is no longer playing.

Eight groups of 5.

not smart neither team good enough to skip a ranking tournament...

Seems the "trend" for these teams is to skip the seeding tournament, invite a mediocre 02 team to scrimmage and provide food and beverage service to the "seeding committee".

What a cop out... "its too close to QT.. What if our players get injured???"         "Besides, that is what SRSA is doing...."

My oldest brother had a word for these types - but I dare not repeat it as I am a female and well, never mind ...

yep, srsa ok no problem, dt adames and lp weddell? ducking, sting g and fever?idiotic to skip....

If you're good enough, seems like a good idea. What's there to prove at a seeding tourney?
All that matters is QT.

futbollove wrote:If you're good enough, seems like a good idea. What's there to prove at a seeding tourney?
All that matters is QT.

um, your seed at the qt? 

futbollove wrote:If you're good enough, seems like a good idea. What's there to prove at a seeding tourney?
All that matters is QT.

"If you are good enough" is the key phrase here

I'll be honest, of the top 3 the only one I'd like to see play is SRSA, only because I'm curious as to who is on the roster. As far as the other two teams, if it was broken down into 8 groups of 5 then I just don't see it being worth their while. Admittedly I haven't looked up the king tut rules so maybe they will pool the teams in a more competitive matter but if not what good would it do SRSA, DTS, or LP Elite to play games against teams ranked in the mid 20's and higher and win 4-0 or worse?

Trust me when I say this, the powers in charge have a good idea of where teams at the top will be ranked. The tournaments that weekend are nice but hardly the end all be all. Now for teams that have played in silver divisions of leagues or finished in the middle of the pack or lowere in Gold divisions of leagues and have never shown any level of consistency a good showing can certainly help their seeding or a poor showing could hurt them.

In my mind there are 3 teams that have shown themselves to be consistent against 03 competition and those are the teams previously mentioned. I don't consider them not playing that weekend to be ducking because let's be honest they wouldn't probably play a team that weekend that would give them a scare with as many teams are in this thing. Now if they made a pool of DTS, Hilliard, sting west, FCD Prem, and FCD Gold then of course that would be one heck of a pool, but that's not going to happen.

So to me who is playing and who isn't playing is pretty much a non starter for me. Trust me, if some of these other teams could sit out that week they would but they can't. I mean if all you had to hang your hat on was a 3rd or 4th place finish in a silver league and not making it out of pool play in many of your recent tournaments and you decided to sit out the tournaments then I'd probably guess you are tryin to hide some weaknesses.

However if you've won or come in second in practically everything you played in for the past 8 months, proving yourself in a friendly format is probably not that high on anyone's list of things to do.

Now with Sting G losing some players at the 11th hour I'd love to have watched them play but only because I'm curious as to who is on the team. Them choosing not to play is no big deal. They've played against all the top teams before and has more than held their own. Proving something to some posters on a message board is probably way down on their priorities.

Just a few more weeks and we will all know who the contenders and pretenders are in the 03 group.

herradura wrote:

futbollove wrote:If you're good enough, seems like a good idea. What's there to prove at a seeding tourney?
All that matters is QT.

"If you are good enough" is the key phrase here

Going by the FBR, the King Tut list and the Puma list (Puma list could grow - July 12th deadline):

Teams #1,2,3, and 5 are sitting out.  Most would agree they are "good enough."  FC Dallas Gold is "good enough," too, but they are playing - more power to them.

Team #6 doesn't exist?

Teams #7 - #40 are playing in Tut or Puma with the exceptions of #19 and 35.

That's pretty cool that so many teams are playing in one weekend, but how could qualifying actually start on Tuesday if these tournaments matter for seeding?  The QT committee watches games through Sunday, stays up all Sunday night and publishes schedules on Monday?  You find out on Monday that you play Tuesday?

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'll be honest, of the top 3 the only one I'd like to see play is SRSA, only because I'm curious as to who is on the roster.  As far as the other two teams, if it was broken down into 8 groups of 5 then I just don't see it being worth their while. Admittedly I haven't looked up the king tut rules so maybe they will pool the teams in a more competitive matter but if not what good would it do SRSA, DTS, or LP Elite to play games against teams ranked in the mid 20's and higher and win 4-0 or worse?

The whole point of starting the King Tut was to give teams 4 competitive matches prior to qualifying, so every attempt is made to group teams accordingly. That said, I see no problem with the top teams taking a pass. Their QT seed will still be strong.

Gunner9 wrote:

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'll be honest, of the top 3 the only one I'd like to see play is SRSA, only because I'm curious as to who is on the roster.  As far as the other two teams, if it was broken down into 8 groups of 5 then I just don't see it being worth their while. Admittedly I haven't looked up the king tut rules so maybe they will pool the teams in a more competitive matter but if not what good would it do SRSA, DTS, or LP Elite to play games against teams ranked in the mid 20's and higher and win 4-0 or worse?

The whole point of starting the King Tut was to give teams 4 competitive matches prior to qualifying, so every attempt is made to group teams accordingly.  That said, I see no problem with the top teams taking a pass.  Their QT seed will still be strong.

I find it strange from past years the top FBR seeds were present at the tournament and not sitting it out.

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'll be honest, of the top 3 the only one I'd like to see play is SRSA, only because I'm curious as to who is on the roster.  As far as the other two teams, if it was broken down into 8 groups of 5 then I just don't see it being worth their while. Admittedly I haven't looked up the king tut rules so maybe they will pool the teams in a more competitive matter but if not what good would it do SRSA, DTS, or LP Elite to play games against teams ranked in the mid 20's and higher and win 4-0 or worse?

Rumor last year was that King Tut was set up so groups are competitive.  From an '02 post last year:

When you register to play in King Tut, the team chooses your level of competition.
3 levels were provided to pick from:

- most competitive
- competitive
- least competitive

Your coach/TM determined which level he/she wanted you to compete at and then the tournament hosts divide from there.

GrandTXSoccer wrote: Now if they made a pool of DTS, Hilliard, sting west, FCD Prem, and FCD Gold then of course that would be one heck of a pool, but that's not going to happen.

You'd be surprised...  That might not be far off from reality.  TuT will usually group together teams in reasonably competitive pools.  Depending on what the teams have requested in terms of level of play, I would bet that you would see a majority of these teams broken into two 5-Team Platinum pools:

D'Feeters
DT Scott
FCD Gold
FCD Premier
FCD South
FWFC Black
LP Keegan
LP Rush
Mutiny
Sting Goodman
Sting Hilton
Sting West

bwgophers wrote:

GrandTXSoccer wrote: Now if they made a pool of DTS, Hilliard, sting west, FCD Prem, and FCD Gold then of course that would be one heck of a pool, but that's not going to happen.

You'd be surprised...  That might not be far off from reality.  TuT will usually group together teams in reasonably competitive pools.  Depending on what the teams have requested in terms of level of play, I would bet that you would see a majority of these teams broken into two 5-Team Platinum pools:

D'Feeters
DT Scott
FCD Gold
FCD Premier
FCD South
FWFC Black
LP Keegan
LP Rush
Mutiny
Sting Goodman
Sting Hilton
Sting West

I have seen teams move considerably up in the rankings for QT with a good showing at the TUT. Ex. Andromeda 01 powers moved up into the #4 seed for QT after a strong showing in the tournament.

Will the seeding committee rank teams based on wins / losses or style of play? i.e. kickball vs possession?

Till-I-Collapse wrote:Will the seeding committee rank teams based on wins / losses or style of play?  i.e. kickball vs possession?

I have no idea! They do not give out seeding criteria. Performance after teams are all set seems to be the first criteria. LHGCL credit teams in seeding that perform well in the TUT.

Certainly will prove to be an interesting experience this year. Between where everyone landed, teams sitting out, the # of teams competing, and even the different styles of play amongst the top 10-20 teams. Can't wait to see how it all plays out!

UEFA wrote:

Gunner9 wrote:

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'll be honest, of the top 3 the only one I'd like to see play is SRSA, only because I'm curious as to who is on the roster.  As far as the other two teams, if it was broken down into 8 groups of 5 then I just don't see it being worth their while. Admittedly I haven't looked up the king tut rules so maybe they will pool the teams in a more competitive matter but if not what good would it do SRSA, DTS, or LP Elite to play games against teams ranked in the mid 20's and higher and win 4-0 or worse?

The whole point of starting the King Tut was to give teams 4 competitive matches prior to qualifying, so every attempt is made to group teams accordingly.  That said, I see no problem with the top teams taking a pass.  Their QT seed will still be strong.

I find it strange from past years the top FBR seeds were present at the tournament and not sitting it out.

My guess is that the proximity to QT (i.e. LH saying that the QT may start mid-week this year), has something to do with it. For the '01's TuT was a full 2 weeks before QT and for the '02's a full week.

If memory serves me correct, Solar Red '01 (consensus #1 heading into QT) played against Boys in TuT. Didn't affect them as they were still the #1 QT seed.

Last year, FCD '02 Premier was the consensus #1 heading into QT and they played up against '01's in TuT, and were still the #1 QT seed.

So SRSA '03 not playing at all probably won't impact their seed and I would be shocked if they are not the #1 QT seed, although it really won't matter for them.

The interesting thing will be to see if the seeding committee "penalizes" the other top teams that don't appear to be playing this year. Last year, Solar '02 Gio (consensus top 10) skipped both TuT and Puma and got hit with a #14 seed.

Again, the seeding will have no impact at all on DT South, LP Elite, and Sting. Those teams will all qualify easily for D1.

At the end of the day, the seeding process is always hazy. Don't bother trying to predict it or manipulate it by playing, not playing, requesting a stronger pool, requesting a weaker pool. The seeding will generally be pretty accurate, but there are guaranteed to be some head-scratchers. The fact of the matter is, 85-90% of the time, where a team is seeded for QT makes no difference on where they end up qualifying. Sure, 10-15% of the time it can be a factor, but you can't predict or control it, so don't bother trying.

Bottom line, any coach worth their salt is making their decisions on whether or not to play, where to play, and what level of competition to request, SOLELY based on what they think will best prepare their team to be playing at their absolute peak during the QT. Do that successfully, and seeding won't matter.

bwgophers wrote:

UEFA wrote:

Gunner9 wrote:

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'll be honest, of the top 3 the only one I'd like to see play is SRSA, only because I'm curious as to who is on the roster.  As far as the other two teams, if it was broken down into 8 groups of 5 then I just don't see it being worth their while. Admittedly I haven't looked up the king tut rules so maybe they will pool the teams in a more competitive matter but if not what good would it do SRSA, DTS, or LP Elite to play games against teams ranked in the mid 20's and higher and win 4-0 or worse?

The whole point of starting the King Tut was to give teams 4 competitive matches prior to qualifying, so every attempt is made to group teams accordingly.  That said, I see no problem with the top teams taking a pass.  Their QT seed will still be strong.

I find it strange from past years the top FBR seeds were present at the tournament and not sitting it out.

My guess is that the proximity to QT (i.e. LH saying that the QT may start mid-week this year), has something to do with it.  For the '01's TuT was a full 2 weeks before QT and for the '02's a full week.

If memory serves me correct, Solar Red '01 (consensus #1 heading into QT) played against Boys in TuT.  Didn't affect them as they were still the #1 QT seed.

Last year, FCD '02 Premier was the consensus #1 heading into QT and they played up against '01's in TuT, and were still the #1 QT seed.

So SRSA '03 not playing at all probably won't impact their seed and I would be shocked if they are not the #1 QT seed, although it really won't matter for them.

The interesting thing will be to see if the seeding committee "penalizes" the other top teams that don't appear to be playing this year.  Last year, Solar '02 Gio (consensus top 10) skipped both TuT and Puma and got hit with a #14 seed.

Again, the seeding will have no impact at all on DT South, LP Elite, and Sting.  Those teams will all qualify easily for D1.

At the end of the day, the seeding process is always hazy.  Don't bother trying to predict it or manipulate it by playing, not playing, requesting a stronger pool, requesting a weaker pool.  The seeding will generally be pretty accurate, but there are guaranteed to be some head-scratchers.  The fact of the matter is, 85-90% of the time, where a team is seeded for QT makes no difference on where they end up qualifying.  Sure, 10-15% of the time it can be a factor, but you can't predict or control it, so don't bother trying.

Bottom line, any coach worth their salt is making their decisions on whether or not to play, where to play, and what level of competition to request, SOLELY based on what they think will best prepare their team to be playing at their absolute peak during the QT.  Do that successfully, and seeding won't matter.

I don't see that committee has ever penalized a team for not playing nor having a sub par tournament.

Well that would be fun to watch if that ends up being the way it breaks down. Personally I still think its better if those teams don't play, gives some of these other teams a chance to separate themselves from the rest of the pack.

I know folks were talking a couple months ago about DTS ducking competition and all they did when they came out to play was beat FCD Prem, FWFC, tied LP Elite, beat FCD Gold and then beat LP Elite. Not sure they need to prove anything.

If I had more time and didnt just take an ambien I could make a strong case for LP Elite just like DTS of not needing to play that weekend.

Regardless of who is or isn't playing in the Tut, should make for some competitive games. Can teams like FCD Prem, Sting West, Dfeeters H, Sting H, or LP Rush gain some momentum going into qualifying? All of those teams seems to be big momentum teams, so if they can get things going in tht tournament then it might help them avoid a let down in the following weekend.

From all I've ever been told that the committee takes a little bit of everything into consideration. They talk to coaches and other NTX soccer folks, watch scrimmages, and watch tournaments. Not sure which carries the most weight. If it were me, I'd try to get the rosters from the past couple of months and compare to what is being entered in the tournament. At least it would give me a better idea as to what the tournament results meant.

Plus Id give BW a call and get his opinion

Where did you get that info that those teams are not in either?

SteveHolt! wrote:

herradura wrote:

futbollove wrote:If you're good enough, seems like a good idea. What's there to prove at a seeding tourney?
All that matters is QT.

"If you are good enough" is the key phrase here

Going by the FBR, the King Tut list and the Puma list (Puma list could grow - July 12th deadline):

Teams #1,2,3, and 5 are sitting out.  Most would agree they are "good enough."  FC Dallas Gold is "good enough," too, but they are playing - more power to them.

Team #6 doesn't exist?

Teams #7 - #40 are playing in Tut or Puma with the exceptions of #16,19,23,35 and 38.

That's pretty cool that so many teams are playing in one weekend, but how could qualifying actually start on Tuesday if these tournaments matter for seeding?  The QT committee watches games through Sunday, stays up all Sunday night and publishes schedules on Monday?  You find out on Monday that you play Tuesday?

UEFA wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

UEFA wrote:

Gunner9 wrote:

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'll be honest, of the top 3 the only one I'd like to see play is SRSA, only because I'm curious as to who is on the roster.  As far as the other two teams, if it was broken down into 8 groups of 5 then I just don't see it being worth their while. Admittedly I haven't looked up the king tut rules so maybe they will pool the teams in a more competitive matter but if not what good would it do SRSA, DTS, or LP Elite to play games against teams ranked in the mid 20's and higher and win 4-0 or worse?

The whole point of starting the King Tut was to give teams 4 competitive matches prior to qualifying, so every attempt is made to group teams accordingly.  That said, I see no problem with the top teams taking a pass.  Their QT seed will still be strong.

I find it strange from past years the top FBR seeds were present at the tournament and not sitting it out.

My guess is that the proximity to QT (i.e. LH saying that the QT may start mid-week this year), has something to do with it.  For the '01's TuT was a full 2 weeks before QT and for the '02's a full week.

If memory serves me correct, Solar Red '01 (consensus #1 heading into QT) played against Boys in TuT.  Didn't affect them as they were still the #1 QT seed.

Last year, FCD '02 Premier was the consensus #1 heading into QT and they played up against '01's in TuT, and were still the #1 QT seed.

So SRSA '03 not playing at all probably won't impact their seed and I would be shocked if they are not the #1 QT seed, although it really won't matter for them.

The interesting thing will be to see if the seeding committee "penalizes" the other top teams that don't appear to be playing this year.  Last year, Solar '02 Gio (consensus top 10) skipped both TuT and Puma and got hit with a #14 seed.

Again, the seeding will have no impact at all on DT South, LP Elite, and Sting.  Those teams will all qualify easily for D1.

At the end of the day, the seeding process is always hazy.  Don't bother trying to predict it or manipulate it by playing, not playing, requesting a stronger pool, requesting a weaker pool.  The seeding will generally be pretty accurate, but there are guaranteed to be some head-scratchers.  The fact of the matter is, 85-90% of the time, where a team is seeded for QT makes no difference on where they end up qualifying.  Sure, 10-15% of the time it can be a factor, but you can't predict or control it, so don't bother trying.

Bottom line, any coach worth their salt is making their decisions on whether or not to play, where to play, and what level of competition to request, SOLELY based on what they think will best prepare their team to be playing at their absolute peak during the QT.  Do that successfully, and seeding won't matter.

I don't see that committee has ever penalized a team for not playing nor having a sub par tournament.

Respectfully disagree with you there...

Cosmos '01 and FCD '01 Pratt were both consensus top 25 teams (many had Pratt top 20).  Both had poor showings in TuT and got HAMMERED with mid-30's seedings.  Both teams ended up in a 2nd weekend "bracket of death" at QT with Tx. Spirit North and FWFC Black (both currently D2 teams).  Cosmos ended up qualifying where they belonged in D3, but Pratt ended up in PPL for U11, and blew through the league, going something like 18-0-1.

I don't remember any specific teams in the '02's having particularly sub-par TuT or Puma and getting penalized from a seeding standpoint, but Solar Gio did appear to get penalized for not playing in one of those tourneys.  FBR had them at #7, most people had them in the bottom part of the top 10, yet they ended up seeded #14.  Made for a little tougher road for them as they had to go to the 2nd weekend of QT, but they still ended up in D1, and finished in 4th place at U11, 3 spots higher than FBR, 10 spots higher than their QT seed.

Now, let me clarify... when I say "penalized", I am not implying that the seeding committee willfully and/or intentionally seeded these teams lower than what they felt was correct due to not playing, or having a poor result compared to their history. I'm sure the seeding committee placed those teams exactly where they thought they should be based on what observations they made and or information they gathered. What I am saying, is that having a particularly bad weekend on the pitch, or not giving the committee members ample opportunity to see the team play in multiple competitive games, resulted in those teams getting a lower seed than most expected.