The evolution of LH/ECNL

With the creation of ECNL I thought that the kids remaining in LH would fill the void of the leaving players, and that the LH girls would take advantage of the increase in playtime/level and we would see more of them advance into top 100 D1 college soccer. Not sure why but it doesn't seem to be working out that way.

Any ideas? Do all the top LH players move to ECNL when they can?  Are the LH coaches just doing a poor job of developing the players for college? College coaches just not looking there? Or are the girls in LH just not as interested in playing for a top 100 D1 college?

There aren't THAT many NTX players who are playing for top 100 D1 colleges. With that said, it stands to reason the ECNL players would be the ones playing there, right?

Colleges don't have endless monies to look for players in every league - so, it makes sense that they'd look at ECNL, not LH. At U14 - there's very little reason, except being in the area, to view a player, but, U15+ is primary recruiting time.

If you think of a club like the Texans, the majority (not all, but pretty close) move to the top team. This is a microcosm of LH/ECNL. The top players eventually get hounded enough if they aren't already in ECNL to join the show. Money helps as well.

The coaching development has less to do with it at that point than the players. I don't think there are many who are NOT D1 material prior to U15/16 but become that by U18. There are some, but probably not many.

I don't know that you can ask that the girls can take advantage of the ECNL outflow other than from a playing time perspective. If they have the talent, they might improve enough, but, overall, I think it's asking a lot for players to pick up their game to be near equivalents to those leaving. There will be some exceptions obviously.

dfeetersarethebomb wrote:There aren't THAT many NTX players who are playing for top 100 D1 colleges. With that said, it stands to reason the ECNL players would be the ones playing there, right?

Colleges don't have endless monies to look for players in every league - so, it makes sense that they'd look at ECNL, not LH.  At U14 - there's very little reason, except being in the area, to view a player, but, U15+ is primary recruiting time.

If you think of a club like the Texans, the majority (not all, but pretty close) move to the top team. This is a microcosm of LH/ECNL. The top players eventually get hounded enough if they aren't already in ECNL to join the show. Money helps as well.

The coaching development has less to do with it at that point than the players. I don't think there are many who are NOT D1 material prior to U15/16 but become that by U18. There are some, but probably not many.

I don't know that you can ask that the girls can take advantage of the ECNL outflow other than from a playing time perspective. If they have the talent, they might improve enough, but, overall, I think it's asking a lot for players to pick up their game to be near equivalents to those leaving.  There will be some exceptions obviously.

I'm going to go out on a BIG limb and say that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Agree with you Gunners (applies to both).
While it is true that there is more exposure for ECNL, it is a poor assumption to think, or even believe, that all of the best players and/or best teams are all in ECNL. Not everyone has "drank the ECNL Kool-Aid" and have done, or are doing, just fine, having plenty of options for "top 100 D1 colleges".
Good luck with whatever choice you and your kid(s) make, but ECNL is not the only route.  

Depends on what you consider a lot of players - go through all the Big 10 schools. The SEC/Big 12 have a lot of LH alumni, but, there aren't THAT many on other rosters in my opinion. Nothing similar to football.

I don't think it's the only route, but it's certainly the more obvious one for college exposure. Keep in mind the fact you are on an ECNL team doesn't mean any college coach is watching your kid if they are at any random or specific game. There is more to it than that for the majority of would-be collegiate players.

Texas is a better situation than all but a few states in most athletics, fortunately.

I think it is all about how your DD maximizes her development (skills, pace of play, soccer iq, leadership) her academic prep, and her reputation and then gets this wholistic player exposed to college programs. If you are in an ECNL club and your DD does not push her way onto the ECNL roster by U16, that would create a question as to how she would compete in a top collegiate conference. That player would have to invest heavily (time and money) in id camps and alternative exposure opportunities to answer the question at the schools they are interested in.  If you are in a non-ECNL club, are you getting the pace of play quality of play provided by Premier League West, Region 3 Premier League, National Premier League?  If so, then you will get the exposure these top USYS events provide. Without the outside LHGCL type play, you are going to need to invest in quality showcases, summer I D camps, winter break ID camps etc and check off a lot more question boxes to develop the interest of a top college program.

The college coach needs to visualize your DD in their teams jersey playing in an important conference or tournament game. If she passes this test, what does your coach say about her to the college coach about her as a player and as a person?  What is her academic package like?

The investment in select soccer (ECNL, PL, LH,PPL, APL) is about life lessons, discipline, getting along with others, fitness, staying off drugs and alcohol, raising a well rounded child ready for the world. If she chooses to pursue playing in college and a college that fits her needs and wants believes she can help them, then that is a bonus.

This is so true. If all you parents think you are doing this to get your kid a full ride scholarship then sorry you are very miss informed. If it is not about exercise, building relationship, teaching hard work, and the joy of playing sports, then stop now. It has been said many times, but I will say it again, if you kept all the money you spent on soccer you could pay for the half scholarship you might get if you are lucky. Sorry for the rant but I get so tired of all these posters forgetting it supposed to be challenging and fun but not a realistic pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Havingfunyet wrote:This is so true.  If all you parents think you are doing this to get your kid a full ride scholarship then sorry you are very miss informed.  If it is not about exercise, building relationship, teaching hard work, and the joy of playing sports, then stop now.  It has been said many times, but I will say it again, if you kept all the money you spent on soccer you could pay for the half scholarship you might get if you are lucky.  Sorry for the rant but I get so tired of all these posters forgetting it supposed to be challenging and fun but not a realistic pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

This is lost on about 97% of all youth sports parents. In soccer, from U7 - the belief is by joining a super club, your kid will have a leg up on college. There's so much more to it than that, not even mentioning the genetic factors.

The speed of play is night and day different based upon the competition - the better National League/Prem League teams are equivalent or better than the top ECNL teams (not locally, but region-wide, as ECNL rules here), but, the speed of play on the low end is not equivalent at all from what I've seen. I do think college coaches can see a player and know, based upon competition, where they might fit in, but it would be tougher due to these speed of play constraints (keep in mind, there are a number of players on top teams from smaller places than TX, Ohio, MD, FL, Cali) - they have to have been seen somewhere.

My son went through this, forgoing academy to play classic league - same situation with parents there, the classic league parents are oblivious to the speed of play factor - however, the number of athletes on the lower side in boys is much much greater than that on the girl's side. IMO, athletic girls stand out so much more than the boys just due to physicality and skillsets on the gender side.

If you want your kid to play in college - you will have some input, but the majority rests within the brain and heart of your child, you know, from begging them to clean their rooms, how easy it is to influence that.

clueless wrote:............the majority rests within the brain and heart of your child, ............

    

I'm not sure what the question is here. Is the question whether there should be MORE kids getting scholarships now that ECNL has pulled kids out of D-1 because the current D-1 players will get better and have more exposure? For instance, if D-1 schools pull 100 kids out of North Texas annually (just a made up number), clearly the number of overall scholarships they have to offer did not increase so the presumption would be that with the advent of ECNL and increased exposure for D-1 that they would now pull 110 kids out of North Texas? They would have to offer 10 scholarships to D-1 kids that would have gone to kids from LA, OK, AR etc etc but North Texas was able to develop 10 additional kids due to coaching time, exposure and increased speed of play, etc for D-1?

Pele98 wrote:

clueless wrote:............the majority rests within the brain and heart of your child, ............

    

Ditto. It really becomes a "size of fight in the dog" question somewhere along the line.  

It's also a question of who wins in the gene lottery.  Some kids at U16 have advanced miles beyond where they were as athletes, relatively speaking, at, say, U11.  Others....not so much.

Warning: Falling Soap Box Below...
True, playing in the ECNL or Premier League guarantee nothing. It's also true that "all" of the best players don't play in those leagues. Same thing with top colleges- "all" the best, brightest and most deserving don't exclusively populate those campuses, nor do those schools guarantee success after graduation.

But most of the players that do play ECNL or Premier  are damn good players that chose to risk failure, instead of staying the best player on their team. For those of you believe there is little difference between your DD's LHGCL team and ECNL team-- go watch one train-- better yet, go scrimmage one.  

For those players that have the ability, mental toughness and work ethic, those leagues provide outstanding competition, whose benefit is opportunity and exposure to colleges and universities. Big deal if those kids don't get scholarships... Is everyone who graduated from a top school,who is not a millionaire, a failure? Depends on your definition of success.

The opportunity, the journey--the chance at a dream, to see how far she can go is the goal, not the "final" scholarship outcome. Right now, excuses for non-participation set aside, those kids that play ECNL or premier league represent the best players (200, 300 players?) in their age group in the state; but somehow, that accomplishment doesn't count, if she doesn't get a D1 scholarship 2, 3 years in the future? Geez, it's a tough crowd... Stay away from my kid.

I tell my kids: I'd rather they try and fail, than not to have tried at all. A worse mistake, would be to announce excuses to why it wasn't worth the effort.

Packrabbit wrote:Warning: Falling Soap Box Below...
True, playing in the ECNL or Premier League guarantee nothing. It's also true that "all" of the best players don't play in those leagues. Same thing with top colleges- "all" the best, brightest and most deserving don't exclusively populate those campuses, nor do those schools guarantee success after graduation.

But most of the players that do play ECNL or Premier  are damn good players that chose to risk failure, instead of staying the best player on their team. For those of you believe there is little difference between your DD's LHGCL team and ECNL team-- go watch one train-- better yet, go scrimmage one.  

For those players that have the ability, mental toughness and work ethic, those leagues provide outstanding competition, whose benefit is opportunity and exposure to colleges and universities. Big deal if those kids don't get scholarships... Is everyone who graduated from a top school,who is not a millionaire, a failure? Depends on your definition of success.

The opportunity, the journey--the chance at a dream, to see how far she can go is the goal, not the "final" scholarship outcome. Right now, excuses for non-participation set aside, those kids that play ECNL or premier league represent the best players (200, 300 players?) in their age group in the state; but somehow, that accomplishment doesn't count, if she doesn't get a D1 scholarship 2, 3 years in the future? Geez, it's a tough crowd... Stay away from my kid.

I tell my kids: I'd rather they try and fail, than not to have tried at all. A worse mistake, would be to announce excuses to why it wasn't worth the effort.

We always looked at it a little differently.  

The reason ours chose play ECNL, Red Bull, Premier League, National League was to test yourself and compete against the best.  It may result in soccer scholarship opportunities, but that was not the goal.

The sad truth is that many who sign to play in college end up transferring, and many lose their scholarship $ or decide not to play along the way.  In that regard, not much different than the attrition rate of the team you start select with at U11, so make sure it is a school that they would want to attend if soccer does not pan out.

When it came to a college decision, what schools ours would consider was decided based on life goals and desired college experience.  It was separate and apart from where there may be soccer opportunities.  Ours decided not to play in college as the schools who were interested with significant $ were not ones compatible with the college experience and educational opportunities they wanted. i.e. not schools they would chose to attend if soccer was not part of the picture.

Our suggestion would be to make sure the school your dd selects is a school that she will be happy with if soccer does not pan out for one reason or another.

Old Timer wrote:

Packrabbit wrote:Warning: Falling Soap Box Below...
True, playing in the ECNL or Premier League guarantee nothing. It's also true that "all" of the best players don't play in those leagues. Same thing with top colleges- "all" the best, brightest and most deserving don't exclusively populate those campuses, nor do those schools guarantee success after graduation.

But most of the players that do play ECNL or Premier  are damn good players that chose to risk failure, instead of staying the best player on their team. For those of you believe there is little difference between your DD's LHGCL team and ECNL team-- go watch one train-- better yet, go scrimmage one.  

For those players that have the ability, mental toughness and work ethic, those leagues provide outstanding competition, whose benefit is opportunity and exposure to colleges and universities. Big deal if those kids don't get scholarships... Is everyone who graduated from a top school,who is not a millionaire, a failure? Depends on your definition of success.

The opportunity, the journey--the chance at a dream, to see how far she can go is the goal, not the "final" scholarship outcome. Right now, excuses for non-participation set aside, those kids that play ECNL or premier league represent the best players (200, 300 players?) in their age group in the state; but somehow, that accomplishment doesn't count, if she doesn't get a D1 scholarship 2, 3 years in the future? Geez, it's a tough crowd... Stay away from my kid.

I tell my kids: I'd rather they try and fail, than not to have tried at all. A worse mistake, would be to announce excuses to why it wasn't worth the effort.

We always looked at it a little differently.  

The reason ours chose play ECNL, Red Bull, Premier League, National League was to test yourself and compete against the best.  It may result in soccer scholarship opportunities, but that was not the goal.

The sad truth is that many who sign to play in college end up transferring, and many lose their scholarship $ or decide not to play along the way.  In that regard, not much different than the attrition rate of the team you start select with at U11, so make sure it is a school that they would want to attend if soccer does not pan out.

When it came to a college decision, what schools ours would consider was decided based on life goals and desired college experience.  It was separate and apart from where there may be soccer opportunities.  Ours decided not to play in college as the schools who were interested with significant $ were not ones compatible with the college experience and educational opportunities they wanted. i.e. not schools they would chose to attend if soccer was not part of the picture.

Our suggestion would be to make sure the school your dd selects is a school that she will be happy with if soccer does not pan out for one reason or another.

Are there tangible numbers to this assertion? I have trouble with "many".

Uncle Numanga wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

Packrabbit wrote:Warning: Falling Soap Box Below...
True, playing in the ECNL or Premier League guarantee nothing. It's also true that "all" of the best players don't play in those leagues. Same thing with top colleges- "all" the best, brightest and most deserving don't exclusively populate those campuses, nor do those schools guarantee success after graduation.

But most of the players that do play ECNL or Premier  are damn good players that chose to risk failure, instead of staying the best player on their team. For those of you believe there is little difference between your DD's LHGCL team and ECNL team-- go watch one train-- better yet, go scrimmage one.  

For those players that have the ability, mental toughness and work ethic, those leagues provide outstanding competition, whose benefit is opportunity and exposure to colleges and universities. Big deal if those kids don't get scholarships... Is everyone who graduated from a top school,who is not a millionaire, a failure? Depends on your definition of success.

The opportunity, the journey--the chance at a dream, to see how far she can go is the goal, not the "final" scholarship outcome. Right now, excuses for non-participation set aside, those kids that play ECNL or premier league represent the best players (200, 300 players?) in their age group in the state; but somehow, that accomplishment doesn't count, if she doesn't get a D1 scholarship 2, 3 years in the future? Geez, it's a tough crowd... Stay away from my kid.

I tell my kids: I'd rather they try and fail, than not to have tried at all. A worse mistake, would be to announce excuses to why it wasn't worth the effort.

We always looked at it a little differently.  

The reason ours chose play ECNL, Red Bull, Premier League, National League was to test yourself and compete against the best.  It may result in soccer scholarship opportunities, but that was not the goal.

The sad truth is that many who sign to play in college end up transferring, and many lose their scholarship $ or decide not to play along the way.  In that regard, not much different than the attrition rate of the team you start select with at U11, so make sure it is a school that they would want to attend if soccer does not pan out.

When it came to a college decision, what schools ours would consider was decided based on life goals and desired college experience.  It was separate and apart from where there may be soccer opportunities.  Ours decided not to play in college as the schools who were interested with significant $ were not ones compatible with the college experience and educational opportunities they wanted. i.e. not schools they would chose to attend if soccer was not part of the picture.

Our suggestion would be to make sure the school your dd selects is a school that she will be happy with if soccer does not pan out for one reason or another.

Are there tangible numbers to this assertion?  I have trouble with "many".

Sure.  As an example, for this years College Senior class 'many'=more than 50% for the top 4 teams in the age group.  

The % that equals 'many' for the rest of the teams in the age group just goes up from there.

I guess I was hoping that when the ECNL players left the fold, the LH D1 coaches would say lets focus on development for these kids that stayed, and prove the relevance of our league.  Wouldn't the clubs/league/coaches want to show that the LH model works as well as ECNL? They pay the same dues, use the same fields, play as many (or more) games.

From my discussions with many parents they seemed to think that their dd playing in LH1 was going to allow them to play in college, but based on reality it appears that is not the focus of LH1? (no offense to Dallas Baptist or Lincoln memorial U) Has it now just become a pay to play rec league? And the number of players recruited by area (NTX) is not a factor, the colleges would take as many college level girls as we can provide them with.

And I'm not talking about who wants to play college soccer, or why, or the virtues of playing select. I just thought a few of the coaches in LH1 would be able to develop some really great players since the pressure to win was pretty much off (all those crazy people went to ECNL, right?)

Pack - regarding the practices being more competitive on an ECNL team, isn't that a function of the coaching? If Tatu, Adrian, or Bubb were coaching in LH wouldn't they expect the same type of effort from the girls in practice? They did before ECNL, right? Is that the issue then, the good coaches left the league?

The funnel effect has not changed. The top college programs have always recruited primarily from the top 2-3 teams in NTX. At one time, those teams were still in LHGCL, then the PL. Now those teams are in ECNL. There are always exceptions to this, but not many.

No matter what league the top teams/players play in, there are only so many athletes from this area that will draw the attention of the top programs.

DrSoccer wrote:I guess I was hoping that when the ECNL players left the fold, the LH D1 coaches would say lets focus on development for these kids that stayed, and prove the relevance of our league.  Wouldn't the clubs/league/coaches want to show that the LH model works as well as ECNL? They pay the same dues, use the same fields, play as many (or more) games.

From my discussions with many parents they seemed to think that their dd playing in LH1 was going to allow them to play in college, but based on reality it appears that is not the focus of LH1? (no offense to Dallas Baptist or Lincoln memorial U) Has it now just become a pay to play rec league? And the number of players recruited by area (NTX) is not a factor, the colleges would take as many college level girls as we can provide them with.

And I'm not talking about who wants to play college soccer, or why, or the virtues of playing select. I just thought a few of the coaches in LH1 would be able to develop some really great players since the pressure to win was pretty much off (all those crazy people went to ECNL, right?)

I think you're making it too complicated. Prior to ECNL, most age groups didn't have enough talent on the top 5 teams for most every girl on those teams to sign as a top 100 D1 college player. Only a handful on each team.

Since ECNL, nothing changed. Most the commits come from the top 5 teams. Most the schools they're committing to are the same regional schools they've always signed. A few players not on those top 5 teams are picked up here and there.

The jury is out on whether there will be more college interest in future LH age groups that have bigger talent pools. I think they will...talent is talent.

In my DD's age group, even after ECNL teams leave, there will still be a few teams capable of handling any same age group ECNL team. Given their national presence, I can't imagine their talent will be overlooked by D1 colleges when time comes.

Gunner9 wrote:The funnel effect has not changed.  The top college programs have always recruited primarily from the top 2-3 teams in NTX.  At one time, those teams were still in LHGCL, then the PL.  Now those teams are in ECNL.  There are always exceptions to this, but not many.  

No matter what league the top teams/players play in, there are only so many athletes from this area that will draw the attention of the top programs.  

Looks like you beat me to it.

What he said.

the ECNL cool-aid is now served with funnel effect cake....

4-3-3 wrote:

DrSoccer wrote:I guess I was hoping that when the ECNL players left the fold, the LH D1 coaches would say lets focus on development for these kids that stayed, and prove the relevance of our league.  Wouldn't the clubs/league/coaches want to show that the LH model works as well as ECNL? They pay the same dues, use the same fields, play as many (or more) games.

From my discussions with many parents they seemed to think that their dd playing in LH1 was going to allow them to play in college, but based on reality it appears that is not the focus of LH1? (no offense to Dallas Baptist or Lincoln memorial U) Has it now just become a pay to play rec league? And the number of players recruited by area (NTX) is not a factor, the colleges would take as many college level girls as we can provide them with.

And I'm not talking about who wants to play college soccer, or why, or the virtues of playing select. I just thought a few of the coaches in LH1 would be able to develop some really great players since the pressure to win was pretty much off (all those crazy people went to ECNL, right?)

I think you're making it too complicated. Prior to ECNL, most age groups didn't have enough talent on the top 5 teams for most every girl on those teams to sign as a top 100 D1 college player. Only a handful on each team.

Since ECNL, nothing changed. Most the commits come from the top 5 teams. Most the schools they're committing to are the same regional schools they've always signed. A few players not on those top 5 teams are picked up here and there.

The jury is out on whether there will be more college interest in future LH age groups that have bigger talent pools. I think they will...talent is talent.

In my DD's age group, even after ECNL teams leave, there will still be a few teams capable of handling any same age group ECNL team. Given their national presence, I can't imagine their talent will be overlooked by D1 colleges when time comes.

This has been flatly untrue in my dd's age group.  She played for a solid D1 LH team led by a coach who wanted the team to compete on the ECNL level.  We scrimmaged ECNL teams, we played them in tournaments both in and out of state, but the result was always the same--a loss.  But at least we had a few coaches watching when we played them.

I've since seen more college coaches at ECNL practices than I ever saw at LH matches.  I'd argue some great players are getting overlooked in LH, but they aren't getting much (if any) exposure to college coaches.  These coaches seem to believe the better players have funneled into ECNL, and after being on both sides of the fence, it's hard to disagree. It's easy to understand why they'd want to see players that can perform against the best competition out there--something they'll have to do to succeed at the next level.  You can't say that about stars in LH any more.

Time will tell. National Premier League looks to be a pathway for top players who haven't chosen ECNL for whatever reason. The competitive dynamic in one age group doesn't necessarily carry over to another.

4-3-3 wrote:Time will tell. National Premier League looks to be a pathway for top players who haven't chosen ECNL for whatever reason. The competitive dynamic in one age group doesn't necessarily carry over to another.

Which begs the question, "Why would a "top player" chose not to play ECNL?"

Gunners wrote:

4-3-3 wrote:Time will tell. National Premier League looks to be a pathway for top players who haven't chosen ECNL for whatever reason. The competitive dynamic in one age group doesn't necessarily carry over to another.

Which begs the question, "Why would a "top player" chose not to play ECNL?"

They play on a team with a great coach, a group of families they enjoy and are as talented as any ECNL team.