The evolution of LH/ECNL

Gunners wrote:Guesses and speculation vs facts and experience.

I give up.

Havingfunyet wrote:...........
How many of you parents actually played at a very high level at your DD age???????????????  My guess is much less then half.  So lighten up and let them have funn

ballhead wrote:

Pinnochio wrote:My guess is that the sub rules affect those players more than you are aware of and the sub rules are actually preferred by the Ecnl coaches because they can use those rules as the excuse when parents complain. Playing time is always a concern for those not in the starting lineup no matter what league you are playing in. Ecnl further limits playing time because a bench player no longer gets the benefit of the doubt and has their shifts artificially shortened for no reason other than an unnecessary rule.  Without the rule a bench player comes into the game earlier and gets a chance to work thru any mistakes but the rule results in the coach waiting as long as possible before inserting that player because the coach can't run the risk of exposing the sub any longer than necessary. If the sub rule has zero impact on playing time, then why don't all leagues and age groups use the same rule? This rule gives the power coaches even more control and authority which is what its all about, right?

Glad to hear it has worked out for your daughter and her team but I am certain that is not the case across the board.

It sounds like you've made the decision that the ECNL is not for your dd, and that's certainly fine.  The sub rules just seem like a pretty benign reason to use to come to that conclusion.

You say: If the sub rule has zero impact on playing time, then why don't all leagues and age groups use the same rule? Help me out here.  If there are two ways of accomplishing something, both with approximately equal results, why would you expect everyone to do it one way or the other?  I just don't understand the logic you're using here.  

You also say: This rule gives the power coaches even more control and authority which is what its all about, right?  The coach has all the control and authority (within the rules) over subbing in any case.  I can't imagine that a coach felt any more empowered due to the limited substitution rules.  If anything those rules limit his "power" to freely substitute players.

I always find the whole ECNL/Non-ECNL argument here so tiring.  There are so many red herrings used in the arguments against the ECNL.  The cost, the time commitment, the sub rules, and so on.  My experience is that those things were virtually a wash between the LHGCL/Premier League days.  

If I were considering the ECNL for my dd today, and I felt she was up to the task, my areas of concern would be the same as when considering any other league:  

• The "fit" between my dd and the coach, as well as the rest of the team.  
  
  
  
• What is the size of the roster.
  
  
  
• Where does my dd fit in the pecking order on the team?  Top, middle, bottom of the roster.
  
  
  
• Are the coach and I on the same page with the expectations for my dd, and if so, is my dd okay with those expectations?
  
  
  

These decisions are very personal between the player and the parent, and there is no "one size fits all."  Whatever works for one may be completely out of the question for another.  

It all worked out great for my dd, she's now playing DI college soccer and having a blast.  We spent a lot of money on club soccer, but it was, in my opinion, money much better spent than at the mall, or doing what some of her classmates ended up doing.

The ECNL isn't for all players, nor is the LHGCL or any other league for that matter.  Focusing on finding the right fit for our dd's is job one for us as parents, no matter what level that is.

I hope it works out as well for you whatever you choose (or have chosen). /rant off

Havingfunyet wrote:That is soooooo funny and why all the hate towards you super parents.  So not only are you delusional about your kids ability to even play in college...now they are the next tiger woods \ mia hamm.  Keep screwing up you kid with your expectations....talk to you in ten years..

Havingfunyet wrote:Pele is your dd even the best kid on her team or in the league she is in!!!!!!!!  Can you answer that honestly?

Pele98 wrote:

Havingfunyet wrote:Pele is your dd even the best kid on her team or in the league she is in!!!!!!!!  Can you answer that honestly?

Which sport?

Soccer, NO.......very average.
Basketball, I would say MAY BE........but no heart for it.
Volleyball, same as basketball.
Cheerleading,........won't even make 'waterboy'.
Tennis......has potential but no desire or heart.
Track......won't even get off the starting block, unless there is Nacho Cheese as the prize at the end of the run.


BUT, that should not stop me or her from dreaming.

It didn't stop Michael Jordan when he was cut from HS basketball and baseball, it didn't stop Messi when he was told he had growth problems, it didn't stop Mia when she was told the best she can do is play with boys, it didn't stop Winston Churchill when they told him he was just a son of a drunkard, it didn't stop Mae Jemison from becoming an astronaut..........etc.

So, what is your point?  Stop dreaming at 14/15 because Havingfunyet says you are delusional and not the best kid on her team or league? 

How do you categorize the 'best' anyway?  Is being the 'best' based on goals scored, tackles won, most vocal, goals stopped, most athletic, fastest, strongest, most desire, tallest or what?  And who makes the call as to who is the 'best'? Coaches, friends, delusional parents....?  And how can one be the 'best' in a team sport, where are the rest of the team standing?

If there is the best, implies there is the worst also. What stops the 'worst' from being the 'best' and the 'best' from being the 'worst' in let's say.......3, 4 or 5 years?

Pele98 wrote:

Havingfunyet wrote:Pele is your dd even the best kid on her team or in the league she is in!!!!!!!!  Can you answer that honestly?

Which sport?

Soccer, NO.......very average.
Basketball, I would say MAY BE........but no heart for it.
Volleyball, same as basketball.
Cheerleading,........won't even make 'waterboy'.
Tennis......has potential but no desire or heart.
Track......won't even get off the starting block, unless there is Nacho Cheese as the prize at the end of the run.


BUT, that should not stop me or her from dreaming.

It didn't stop Michael Jordan when he was cut from HS basketball and baseball, it didn't stop Messi when he was told he had growth problems, it didn't stop Mia when she was told the best she can do is play with boys, it didn't stop Winston Churchill when they told him he was just a son of a drunkard, it didn't stop Mae Jemison from becoming an astronaut..........etc.

So, what is your point?  Stop dreaming at 14/15 because Havingfunyet says you are delusional and not the best kid on her team or league? 

How do you categorize the 'best' anyway?  Is being the 'best' based on goals scored, tackles won, most vocal, goals stopped, most athletic, fastest, strongest, most desire, tallest or what?  And who makes the call as to who is the 'best'? Coaches, friends, delusional parents....?  And how can one be the 'best' in a team sport, where are the rest of the team standing?

If there is the best, implies there is the worst also. What stops the 'worst' from being the 'best' and the 'best' from being the 'worst' in let's say.......3, 4 or 5 years?

clueless wrote:How common is the situation where a player is 'found' on an ECNL team? As opposed to seeking out the opportunity.
I recall seeing a documentary where a kid was found on a playground and later starred on Real Madrid (rags to riches - cardboard shin guards to Lamborghini).
And, I know of a kid who broke his arm and it enabled him to pitch in MLB after it healed.

Just not sure of any local situations such as those, other than someone getting the top professional coaching job locally.

I'm just envisioning a kid (roughly #17-18 on the depth chart), warming up at half, to make space on the bench so the starters can rest. After making some killer moves while warming up, they are met at the car leaving by several D1 coaches fighting for a commitment.  Any examples, that's the likely scenario roughly portrayed to me by a coach last spring.

 

ballhead wrote:

Pinnochio wrote:My guess is that the sub rules affect those players more than you are aware of and the sub rules are actually preferred by the Ecnl coaches because they can use those rules as the excuse when parents complain. Playing time is always a concern for those not in the starting lineup no matter what league you are playing in. Ecnl further limits playing time because a bench player no longer gets the benefit of the doubt and has their shifts artificially shortened for no reason other than an unnecessary rule.  Without the rule a bench player comes into the game earlier and gets a chance to work thru any mistakes but the rule results in the coach waiting as long as possible before inserting that player because the coach can't run the risk of exposing the sub any longer than necessary. If the sub rule has zero impact on playing time, then why don't all leagues and age groups use the same rule? This rule gives the power coaches even more control and authority which is what its all about, right?

Glad to hear it has worked out for your daughter and her team but I am certain that is not the case across the board.

It sounds like you've made the decision that the ECNL is not for your dd, and that's certainly fine.  The sub rules just seem like a pretty benign reason to use to come to that conclusion.

You say: If the sub rule has zero impact on playing time, then why don't all leagues and age groups use the same rule? Help me out here.  If there are two ways of accomplishing something, both with approximately equal results, why would you expect everyone to do it one way or the other?  I just don't understand the logic you're using here.  

You also say: This rule gives the power coaches even more control and authority which is what its all about, right?  The coach has all the control and authority (within the rules) over subbing in any case.  I can't imagine that a coach felt any more empowered due to the limited substitution rules.  If anything those rules limit his "power" to freely substitute players.

I always find the whole ECNL/Non-ECNL argument here so tiring.  There are so many red herrings used in the arguments against the ECNL.  The cost, the time commitment, the sub rules, and so on.  My experience is that those things were virtually a wash between the LHGCL/Premier League days.  

If I were considering the ECNL for my dd today, and I felt she was up to the task, my areas of concern would be the same as when considering any other league:  

• The "fit" between my dd and the coach, as well as the rest of the team.  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• What is the size of the roster.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Where does my dd fit in the pecking order on the team?  Top, middle, bottom of the roster.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Are the coach and I on the same page with the expectations for my dd, and if so, is my dd okay with those expectations?
  
  
  
  
  
  

These decisions are very personal between the player and the parent, and there is no "one size fits all."  Whatever works for one may be completely out of the question for another.  

It all worked out great for my dd, she's now playing DI college soccer and having a blast.  We spent a lot of money on club soccer, but it was, in my opinion, money much better spent than at the mall, or doing what some of her classmates ended up doing.

The ECNL isn't for all players, nor is the LHGCL or any other league for that matter.  Focusing on finding the right fit for our dd's is job one for us as parents, no matter what level that is.

I hope it works out as well for you whatever you choose (or have chosen). /rant off

Havingfunyet wrote:That is soooooo funny and why all the hate towards you super parents.  So not only are you delusional about your kids ability to even play in college...now they are the next tiger woods \ mia hamm.  Keep screwing up you kid with your expectations....talk to you in ten years..