Club Pass Players

aTmAg wrote:There is no law against adultery either, but I think that is a shameful act as well.

Not only does allowing D1 players playing down violate the philosophical spirit of the rule, but LHGCL specifically wrote a "spirit of the rule" and this violates that written spirit as well.  If you don't think it is shameful to take girls who signed up for a given team, bench them, and then bring in ringers from a higher level team and have them play at a lower level of competition just to hide crappy coaching, then I don't know what to tell you.

Amen.....

The travesty is how it effects the girls that are told to not suit up for the game. Why? Because they want someone better and more important to the club to suit up so they can win a game. The travesty is how it effects the starters who are told they will not start. Why? Because they want someone from another club team to play down and start or play 90% of the game so they can win the game. Otherwise, we can't win the game. The travesty is parents letting it happen in 11 to 13 year old girls soccer so they can say we weren't relegated. They would then forget to mention that their team did not suit up 3 girls and sat 3 of their girls so we could have 3 girls playing down so we could win games. The travesty is the clubs charging these non players the same as everyone else. My DD, my money, my time and anything else I bring to the table would be requesting a release. My DD is more important than having a club name and wins that were not earned by the team but the club and club pass players.

This is only for the younger DDs. The older ones are more mature and if soccer wasn't a priority have already moved on.

You left out the 30, 40 and 50 yr olds that think this is a good deal for the 11, 12 and 13 yr olds. Let's hear some more from them.

Waco Texans have used it.
So has Sting East.
Both pulling from D1 teams with different intentions.

 

Get over it, you will find much worse things to beat into the ground as your DD gets older.

What did Sting East use it for? They are in 3rd with virtually no chance to catch fever. If anybody would have incentive to abuse it it would be Sting North. But they haven't so far.

Inn Keeper wrote:The travesty is how it effects the girls that are told to not suit up for the game. Why? Because they want someone better and more important to the club to suit up so they can win a game. The travesty is how it effects the starters who are told they will not start. Why? Because they want someone from another club team to play down and start or play 90% of the game so they can win the game.

So where are all of the parents of the kids that this has happened to?  You'd think all of those Mama and Papa Grizzlies would be on here under first-time posting aliases screaming about how their DD got screwed and how they are leaving their team because of it.  Or where are the Tornado11's of the world ("My DD goes to school with a girl who got benched for a club pass player...")?

Or are the coaches really smart enough to only screw over the kids who's parents have no clue what txsoccer.net is?

 

fatherofoneplayer wrote:Get over it, you will find much worse things to beat into the ground as your DD gets older.

We'll address those when they happen. I fight injustice wherever I see it. Call me batman.

bwgophers wrote:

Inn Keeper wrote:The travesty is how it effects the girls that are told to not suit up for the game. Why? Because they want someone better and more important to the club to suit up so they can win a game. The travesty is how it effects the starters who are told they will not start. Why? Because they want someone from another club team to play down and start or play 90% of the game so they can win the game.

So where are all of the parents of the kids that this has happened to?  You'd think all of those Mama and Papa Grizzlies would be on here under first-time posting aliases screaming about how their DD got screwed and how they are leaving their team because of it.  Or where are the Tornado11's of the world ("My DD goes to school with a girl who got benched for a club pass player...")?

Or are the coaches really smart enough to only screw over the kids who's parents have no clue what txsoccer.net is?

 

Perhaps they don't want to get in bad graces with their coach? It would be pretty easy to figure out who it was posting, don't you think?

aTmAg wrote:

fatherofoneplayer wrote:Get over it, you will find much worse things to beat into the ground as your DD gets older.

We'll address those when they happen.  I fight injustice wherever I see it.  Call me batman.

You have been around way too long to be involved in such drivel.

aTmAg,

Couple more ties from Fever and Sting East is in it. And if it betters a teams recruiting position.....

At the end of the day where the rule goes awry - in part - is that changes the competitive level and may force other coaches choose CPP "to keep up". A couple key players in key positions can absolutely effect the outcome.

It's unfortunate, especially for those attempting to do their best against similar competition. That said, the rules allow for it so we have to deal with it until the league gets enough crap that they I do the rule for a future season.

aTmAg wrote:
Perhaps they don't want to get in bad graces with their coach?  It would be pretty easy to figure out who it was posting, don't you think?

That's interesting, because I'm trying to remember anyone who has posted on this subject and said that if something like that happened to their DD, it was no big deal, and that they would just sit by idly, take it in stride, and not make any waves, because they didn't want to get in the coach's bad graces after he just benched their DD in favor of a club pass player for the sole sake of trying to get a Win.

Pale Rider wrote:You left out the 30, 40 and 50 yr olds that think this is a good deal for the 11, 12 and 13 yr olds.  Let's hear some more from them.  

What we're really talking about with this rule is the definition of "team" in NTX. Team is everything, and "club" is typically nothing much more than a shared bumper sticker. Most clubs' teams don't know each other, don't train together, and often don't have the same training methods, philosophy, characteristics or playing style.

In a more evolved concept of club, the group is a pool of kids who have access to a collection of coaches, under a defined philosophy and playing style, and routinely train and interact with each other. In this more international rendition of club, no one would bat an eye at a kid from one "team" being used to play a game with another "team"...they are the same club....cut from the same cloth. Moving up and down levels is part of the process.

Because we're so hyper focused on winning the youth games we've paid out the wazoo for, we expect these rigid boundaries where teams are little fiefdoms unto themselves. For me to win, someone has to lose. It has to be clear cut...cuz that's what I paid for.

These boundaries are often NOT conducive for optimal development of our children, and become less and less important the older our kids become anyway.

This rule is just helping evolve the concept of club in NTX faster than it otherwise would.

Welcome to 'select' soccer!!

pro16 wrote:aTmAg,

Couple more ties from Fever and Sting East is in it. And if it betters a teams recruiting position.....

At the end of the day where the rule goes awry - in part - is that changes the competitive level and may force other coaches choose CPP "to keep up". A couple key players in key positions can absolutely effect the outcome.

It's unfortunate, especially for those attempting to do their best against similar competition. That said, the rules allow for it so we have to deal with it until the league gets enough crap that they I do the rule for a future season.

It's far more devestating to a team and club to get relegated than to NOT get pushed up a division.  They often completely blow up and have nearly 100% turnover and then get knocked down division by division until they lose their bye altogether.  Look at Sting West 98 from a few years back.  They were in D1 from u11 and then got relegated by 1 goal their U14 year.  They got last place last year in D2, all the girls left, and they gave the bye to an incoming team.  That team is now in 2nd to last place and about to get knocked out of LH altogether.  

Not to mention Sting North is at 4 points along with the 9th place team.  All it takes is for that 9th grade team to tie a game and they will jump ahead.  Far more bang for the buck to abuse the rule for Sting North than Sting East.

bwgophers wrote:

aTmAg wrote:
Perhaps they don't want to get in bad graces with their coach?  It would be pretty easy to figure out who it was posting, don't you think?

That's interesting, because I'm trying to remember anyone who has posted on this subject and said that if something like that happened to their DD, it was no big deal, and that they would just sit by idly, take it in stride, and not make any waves, because they didn't want to get in the coach's bad graces after he just benched their DD in favor of a club pass player for the sole sake of trying to get a Win.

Do you remember anybody who posted that they would be dissapointed if their entire family got killed in a freak skiing accident? No. Yet I imagine they would still be dissapointed.

Nobody thinks it would be their girl. If it happens to them the last thing they will do is bash the coach publically and gaurantee their daughter to ride the pine for the next 7 games. If you have a bad day at work, do you bash your boss in front of the whole world? No? Do you go onto forums and declare ahead of time that if you do have a bad day at work that you will not make waves? No? Why not? It seems that you think such things are necessary.

4-3-3 wrote:

Pale Rider wrote:You left out the 30, 40 and 50 yr olds that think this is a good deal for the 11, 12 and 13 yr olds.  Let's hear some more from them.  

What we're really talking about with this rule is the definition of "team" in NTX. Team is everything, and "club" is typically nothing much more than a shared bumper sticker. Most clubs' teams don't know each other, don't train together, and often don't have the same training methods, philosophy, characteristics or playing style.

In a more evolved concept of club, the group is a pool of kids who have access to a collection of coaches, under a defined philosophy and playing style, and routinely train and interact with each other. In this more international rendition of club, no one would bat an eye at a kid from one "team" being used to play a game with another "team"...they are the same club....cut from the same cloth. Moving up and down levels is part of the process.

Because we're so hyper focused on winning the youth games we've paid out the wazoo for, we expect these rigid boundaries where teams are little fiefdoms unto themselves. For me to win, someone has to lose. It has to be clear cut...cuz that's what I paid for.

These boundaries are often NOT conducive for optimal development of our children, and become less and less important the older our kids become anyway.

This rule is just helping evolve the concept of club in NTX faster than it otherwise would.

So then why didn't they bother to say any of this in their "spirit of the rule"?  Instead they say things about injuries and allowing girls to play to higher levels of competition.  Is this a secret reason that they were too afraid or merely forgot to mention?

The parents of the benched players are not on the forum because their issue is with the coach/club not the CPP or LH. They should be taking the issue directly to the coach and club if they care about their DD's and their development versus the club caring about getting their parents' $$$$$$$$. And CLUB wins, not TEAM wins.
I would be requesting a release and refund. Sitting my healthy DD for CPP players was not in the contract we signed.

aTmAg wrote:It seems that you think such things are necessary.

Nope. Not necessary at all.

...but after watching this forum closely for the past 4 years, if there's a fire out there somewhere, someone on the forum confirms that they saw the flames (even if it was from a distance), and not just the smoke.

Inn Keeper wrote:I would be requesting a release and refund. Sitting my healthy DD for CPP players was not in the contract we signed.

Exactly... so I'm waiting on the posts from people who did ask for a release, or know someone who asked for a release because their kid got benched for the CPP "ringer".

I keep hearing about the smoke... where's the flames from this raging, out-of-control fire???

How would the fire be raging after 2 games when only one team seems to be doing it?

Thank you for helping me to make my point.

Like I said the forum is not the place for the parents to air their issues with their coaches/clubs. Hopefully the "raging flames" are contained to the meetings.

There is only smoke because only a couple of lower clubs have sat players in order to play higher division CPPs. Also, it hasn't effected a big club's team negatively.

Being that you have no point? At this point of the season it would be playing time suicide to jump on this board and complain about the club and coach in front of the entire world. It's really not that hard to understand.

My point being that I sincerely doubt that there is going to be widespread abuse of this rule by the "big clubs", and a bunch of families running to get releases because their kid got screwed over specifically because the CPP rule was put in place.

If ever there was a time for the abuse to occur, it was over the past couple of weeks, when the schedule was advantageous for the big clubs to take advantage without impacting their top teams' rosters on game day.

Yet with all of the eyes on this, all we can come up with is:

A few reports of actual use of CPP, but only 1 reported "suspicious" use.
One report of a big club team that didn't use CPP when they certainly had the opportunity to.
No reports, or even hearsay, of any livid parents from their kid getting benched at the expense of a CPP.

My point is that Texans did it and they should be mocked for it. Sting (and maybe others) did not do it when they could have and they should be applauded. I'm not claiming its happening all over their place. I hope that coaches take pride in their own product and refrain from violating the spirit of the rule.

Aggie... we all get it. Sting is great. Texans arent. Sting would never think about using the club pass rule unless it benefitted them and their particular need. However, Texans have used it (per you) to get under you skin. I can confirm, they were very successful.