My last post

I know there is at least 1 "Top 5" team that makes no attempt to play possession style soccer and just boots it up to a superior athlete and hopes they can make something happen...if it doesn't work out another ball will be flying through the air in a few minutes and they will try it again...but I don't watch enough soccer to say that is the norm for all top 04 teams...

It would be interesting to get a NTX coach's perspective on this topic. I have not watched many teams practice, but I have to think more time is spent on "possession soccer" rather than "bootball." Watch the teams warm up before a game. I don't recall any times where the forwards lined up on the field and the rest of the team launched long passes to them followed by a shot on goal. Many teams do passing drills or break up into two teams and play keep away.

Bgilly wrote:It would be interesting to get a NTX coach's perspective on this topic.  I have not watched many teams practice, but I have to think more time is spent on "possession soccer" rather than "bootball."  Watch the teams warm up before a game.  I don't recall any times where the forwards lined up on the field and the rest of the team launched long passes to them followed by a shot on goal.  Many teams do passing drills or break up into two teams and play keep away.

all teams PRACTICE possession soccer, it rarely sees the light of day when the game pressure is on. That's part of being a kid under pressure. i am still laughing my azz off at the guy who says 10 year olds are stringing 5-10-15 passes together, that made my day...

silentparent wrote:

Bgilly wrote:It would be interesting to get a NTX coach's perspective on this topic.  I have not watched many teams practice, but I have to think more time is spent on "possession soccer" rather than "bootball."  Watch the teams warm up before a game.  I don't recall any times where the forwards lined up on the field and the rest of the team launched long passes to them followed by a shot on goal.  Many teams do passing drills or break up into two teams and play keep away.

all teams PRACTICE possession soccer, it rarely sees the light of day when the game pressure is on. That's part of being a kid under pressure. i am still laughing my azz off at the guy who says 10 year olds are stringing 5-10-15 passes together, that made my day...

I have to agree...I am at many of the top 20 games. There are a few examples of good footwork, but a pass to a fast forward is sure to follow.

Seems like we're talking about 2 different types of "possession". One is the ability of a team to control the ball at the back line, move it forward and control the ball through passes until a break down in the other team occurs. The second is controlling the ball just enough to move it forward to take advantage of a physical match up and create a scoring chance.

There are a number that can do the latter but only 3-5 that can do the first. The rest simply try to get the ball to "the forward" however they can, usually by booming it from the back line.

Personally I look at the defenders. Are they in control once they get the ball? Do they make wise decisions on what they can do with the ball? Are they confident enough to move the ball side to side. This is usually the best sign of how the team is being taught.

sorry, I watch my dd's team string together 5 or more passes all the time. Also watch them play it out of the back and hold possesion. But I have at times seen them get lazy and knock balls over the top but also use that tactic to try and counter teams who just sink in to defend. Possesion soccer has to be taught from a younger age and pushed even at the expense of games and it does help to have an athletic advantadge and a coach and group of parents that will let the team figure it out even when it scares you

db10 wrote:Seems like we're talking about 2 different types of "possession". One is the ability of a team to control the ball at the back line, move it forward and control the ball through passes until a break down in the other team occurs. The second is controlling the ball just enough to move it forward to take advantage of a physical match up and create a scoring chance.

There are a number that can do the latter but only 3-5 that can do the first. The rest simply try to get the ball to "the forward" however they can, usually by booming it from the back line.

Personally I look at the defenders. Are they in control once they get the ball? Do they make wise decisions on what they can do with the ball? Are they confident enough to move the ball side to side. This is usually the best sign of how the team is being taught.

Well-said.  Typically, the back line will tell you all you need to know about the style a team is attempting to play. I too have seen top teams, even at U9, knock it around a bit against teams who, for any number of reasons, aren't pressing.  And 5-10 linked passes isn't at all unreasonable for a skilled team that's been given space and time.

go99 wrote:sorry, I watch my dd's team string together 5 or more passes all the time.  Also watch them play it out of the back and hold possesion.  But I have at times seen them get lazy and knock balls over the top but also use that tactic to try and counter teams who just sink in to defend.  Possesion soccer has to be taught from a younger age and pushed even at the expense of games and it does help to have an athletic advantadge and a coach and group of parents that will let the team figure it out even when it scares you

rase parents are so funny...

silentparent wrote:

go99 wrote:sorry, I watch my dd's team string together 5 or more passes all the time.  Also watch them play it out of the back and hold possesion.  But I have at times seen them get lazy and knock balls over the top but also use that tactic to try and counter teams who just sink in to defend.  Possesion soccer has to be taught from a younger age and pushed even at the expense of games and it does help to have an athletic advantadge and a coach and group of parents that will let the team figure it out even when it scares you

rase parents are so funny...

silent parents are even funnier   

Just a thought but do you think RASE parents post more often than the average parent on this board?

Dang... Or like the OG Truedog would say: Dang Dang.

10sdad's farewell didnt even make it past the 1st page, before the highjack...

10sdad, it will be alright. I remember someone I know well, cain909, who left back in the turfmonster days, but reappeared. Or maybe you will go the route of DJFat, eject and never come back... Even I have been away for close to a year at one time, but without the swan song...

As far as playing in PPL, my own Niece was in PPL at u12 and didnt get to D1 until her second to last year of Select. This year she is Team Captain as a Sophomore of her D1 College Team.. Good luck in here and with the DD

soccersounder wrote:Dang... Or like the OG Truedog would say: Dang Dang.

10sdad's farewell didnt even make it past the 1st page, before the highjack...

10sdad, it will be alright. I remember someone I know well, cain909, who left back in the turfmonster days, but reappeared. Or maybe you will go the route of DJFat, eject and never come back... Even I have been away for close to a year at one time, but without the swan song...

As far as playing in PPL, my own Niece was in PPL at u12 and didnt get to D1 until her second to last year of Select. This year she is Team Captain as a Sophomore of her D1 College Team.. Good luck in here and with the DD

Say it isn't so!  PPL!!!

How did her parents not pull her out of soccer?

How did they stand the embarrassment?

And how in the world did she ever make a D1 team, having played in PPL?!?

Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:

silentparent wrote:

go99 wrote:sorry, I watch my dd's team string together 5 or more passes all the time.  Also watch them play it out of the back and hold possesion.  But I have at times seen them get lazy and knock balls over the top but also use that tactic to try and counter teams who just sink in to defend.  Possesion soccer has to be taught from a younger age and pushed even at the expense of games and it does help to have an athletic advantadge and a coach and group of parents that will let the team figure it out even when it scares you

rase parents are so funny...

silent parents are even funnier   

yep, sometimes.....  

Maybe it's just me...but this sob story about DMN and TM being nicer than this board is grade A bull malarkey. I saw some of what went on at TM...and heard DMN was even worse and had to be shut down it was so wild. I don't see nearly as many prowling around txsoccer.net with that cut throat wit worthy of being afraid. Hell even the 01s on here a few years ago would've roasted 10s mercilessly with all this excuse making.

Man up dude, and keep posting if you can spare the time. You have some admirers, and we can forgive you being upset the team didnt qualify...if all the nut cases go sane on us this board would dry up quicker than the disposable income of a D1 soccer parent.

PPD, I keep reading you making reference to "top teams" this or that. What is your definition of top team? Top 5/10/20? Do you consider your team to be a top team? I get the sense that you do. You also made reference to when a "top team" plays a "middle of the pack" team. What's "middle of the pack", 10-20, 30+? You know I'm trying to set you up, so will probably be reluctant to respond, so let me just say that our team has played all of the "top" teams with the exception of your's (assuming you consider yourselves a top team) and LP Premier since the beginning of this year and none of them have strung together the number of passes that you are suggesting. A team stringing together 5 completed passes would have been the rarest exception (not that they wouldn't have tried to). Furthermore, I'm sure you would agree, that even though your coach no doubt teaches possession style soccer, your team has moved up in the rankings moreso do to the addition of a few key high quality players. It all starts with the talent level of the players. A team has to have the talented/skilled players to be able to implement that style relative to the competition they are playing. An overmatched team will not be able to implement it even though they may try and vice-versa.

db10, I will take what you said a step further and say that I have seen only 1 team be able to execute the first style that you suggested and that is because they have the best collection of talent/skill on their team relative to the competition and is why they were/are considered defacto #1 by most observors.

In my opinion, teams play "bootball" because they do not have the skill set and knowledge to play a more possession style game, specifically relative to the competition they are playing against. Are there some who could play possession but choose to boot instead? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that happens. So at the end of the day, you try to play the right way and if in so doing you lose to a supposedly inferior/"bootball" team, you chalk it up and move on, even as frustrating as it is.

KnKsDad wrote:PPD, I keep reading you making reference to "top teams" this or that. What is your definition of top team? Top 5/10/20? Do you consider your team to be a top team? I get the sense that you do. You also made reference to when a "top team" plays a "middle of the pack" team. What's "middle of the pack", 10-20, 30+? You know I'm trying to set you up, so will probably be reluctant to respond, so let me just say that our team has played all of the "top" teams with the exception of your's (assuming you consider yourselves a top team) and LP Premier since the beginning of this year and none of them have strung together the number of passes that you are suggesting. A team stringing together 5 completed passes would have been the rarest exception (not that they wouldn't have tried to). Furthermore, I'm sure you would agree, that even though your coach no doubt teaches possession style soccer, your team has moved up in the rankings moreso do to the addition of a few key high quality players. It all starts with the talent level of the players. A team has to have the talented/skilled players to be able to implement that style relative to the competition they are playing. An overmatched team will not be able to implement it even though they may try and vice-versa.

db10, I will take what you said a step further and say that I have seen only 1 team be able to execute the first style that you suggested and that is because they have the best collection of talent/skill on their team relative to the competition and is why they were/are considered defacto #1 by most observors.

In my opinion, teams play "bootball" because they do not have the skill set and knowledge to play a more possession style game, specifically relative to the competition they are playing against. Are there some who could play possession but choose to boot instead? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that happens. So at the end of the day, you try to play the right way and if in so doing you lose to a supposedly inferior/"bootball" team, you chalk it up and move on, even as frustrating as it is.

KnKs - I will leave it up to you and the others on here to decide what constitutes a top team. We have played many of the top 10 teams (per FBR) over the past year and I would say over half have strung together a series of 5 passes - as have we at times - during our matches. Obviously against harder competition, this becomes more difficult and might not ever happen during the match. I believe many of the top teams (you can decide what teams fall in this category for you) strive to play the right way and are coached accordingly. This is the first step in actually playing the game the right way.

You asked about Odyssey (my DDs team which I have always been open about); Our DDs team has actually had very little movement over the past 3 years - we have 2 former players playing on RASE and a few left for Fever. Fortunately, our coach, the stability of the team, and the great family 'connection' has attracted some great talent over the past 1.5 years to fill in the open spots and contribute. My observation is that our team has been more stable than most, especially over the past 9 months - 9 of the girls on our team have been together for 2+ years. I believe (and hope) the team will stay together for years and continue to develop under a strong coach who teaches possession style soccer. Our girls have a ways to go, but we have seen some moments where it comes together - not sure if we would be considered a top team or not, nor do I care. The stability of the team and friendships our girls have developed have actually made our families first run at 'select soccer' enjoyable and rewarding.

I guess the question I have for everyone who disagrees with me, and it appears there are many, is when do you believe girls start to ever play possession ball? At U-12, 14, 16? If not, is this style of play just a myth to you or does it just magically happen to certain teams at certain ages?

haterinho wrote:Maybe it's just me...but this sob story about DMN and TM being nicer than this board is grade A bull malarkey. I saw some of what went on at TM...and heard DMN was even worse and had to be shut down it was so wild. I don't see nearly as many prowling around txsoccer.net with that cut throat wit worthy of being afraid.  Hell even the 01s on here a few years ago would've roasted 10s mercilessly with all this excuse making.

Man up dude, and keep posting if you can spare the time. You have some admirers, and we can forgive you being upset  the team didnt qualify...if all the nut cases go sane on us this board would dry up quicker than the disposable income of a D1 soccer parent.

This board is the most tame of them all.

Half of the posts are by some sad sack coach or their manager looking for players money. A bunch more are posting for tournaments money.

There are not nearly as many threads containing opinions and good debate, and therefore information where you might be able to learn something. Assuming you can sort through all the emotions involved in the debate.

KnKsDad wrote:PPD, I keep reading you making reference to "top teams" this or that. What is your definition of top team? Top 5/10/20? Do you consider your team to be a top team? I get the sense that you do. You also made reference to when a "top team" plays a "middle of the pack" team. What's "middle of the pack", 10-20, 30+? You know I'm trying to set you up, so will probably be reluctant to respond, so let me just say that our team has played all of the "top" teams with the exception of your's (assuming you consider yourselves a top team) and LP Premier since the beginning of this year and none of them have strung together the number of passes that you are suggesting. A team stringing together 5 completed passes would have been the rarest exception (not that they wouldn't have tried to). Furthermore, I'm sure you would agree, that even though your coach no doubt teaches possession style soccer, your team has moved up in the rankings moreso do to the addition of a few key high quality players. It all starts with the talent level of the players. A team has to have the talented/skilled players to be able to implement that style relative to the competition they are playing. An overmatched team will not be able to implement it even though they may try and vice-versa.

db10, I will take what you said a step further and say that I have seen only 1 team be able to execute the first style that you suggested and that is because they have the best collection of talent/skill on their team relative to the competition and is why they were/are considered defacto #1 by most observors.

In my opinion, teams play "bootball" because they do not have the skill set and knowledge to play a more possession style game, specifically relative to the competition they are playing against. Are there some who could play possession but choose to boot instead? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that happens. So at the end of the day, you try to play the right way and if in so doing you lose to a supposedly inferior/"bootball" team, you chalk it up and move on, even as frustrating as it is.

Should we liven up the discussion now and introduce the topic of focusing on coaches/teams developing players for their HS and college years, relative to leveraging a players current capability to win games today, and are they the same or different?

Should we liven up the discussion now and introduce the topic of focusing on coaches/teams developing players for their HS and college years, relative to leveraging a players current capability to win games today, and are they the same or different?[/quote]

Good topic, but should probably be started as a new thread. Personally speaking, most are playing to win at all age groups.

KnKsDad wrote:PPD, I keep reading you making reference to "top teams" this or that. What is your definition of top team? Top 5/10/20? Do you consider your team to be a top team? I get the sense that you do. You also made reference to when a "top team" plays a "middle of the pack" team. What's "middle of the pack", 10-20, 30+? You know I'm trying to set you up, so will probably be reluctant to respond, so let me just say that our team has played all of the "top" teams with the exception of your's (assuming you consider yourselves a top team) and LP Premier since the beginning of this year and none of them have strung together the number of passes that you are suggesting. A team stringing together 5 completed passes would have been the rarest exception (not that they wouldn't have tried to). Furthermore, I'm sure you would agree, that even though your coach no doubt teaches possession style soccer, your team has moved up in the rankings moreso do to the addition of a few key high quality players. It all starts with the talent level of the players. A team has to have the talented/skilled players to be able to implement that style relative to the competition they are playing. An overmatched team will not be able to implement it even though they may try and vice-versa.

db10, I will take what you said a step further and say that I have seen only 1 team be able to execute the first style that you suggested and that is because they have the best collection of talent/skill on their team relative to the competition and is why they were/are considered defacto #1 by most observors.

In my opinion, teams play "bootball" because they do not have the skill set and knowledge to play a more possession style game, specifically relative to the competition they are playing against. Are there some who could play possession but choose to boot instead? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that happens. So at the end of the day, you try to play the right way and if in so doing you lose to a supposedly inferior/"bootball" team, you chalk it up and move on, even as frustrating as it is.

Man, I'm calling BS on this one. i don't know why you have such a chip on your shoulder regarding your team. It's obvious in every post that you are yearning for respect that y'all haven't earned. I like TSN. They play hard and keep most games close and that I do respect. PPD specified the teams he was talking about in multiple posts. I know you read them. As far as only 1 team possessing the ball against TSN...... well I watched DT Scott whip y'all up and down the field 2 weekends in a row this year. Looked like possession to me to the tune of at least 70-80%. We played y'all in SDL and you said it yourself on this board that "TSN couldn't penetrate our back line at all and should've been more but wasn't due to LFS inability to finish" and I know we didn't just boot the ball to the forwards so what were we doing in the middle 3rd to get all those chances we "couldn't finish?" I will admit that the girls(on ANY team) get panicked against more level competition and passes get more errant, but the style and effort is still there. It's the execution that waivers. Most teams that we play, outside of 2 or 3 only-IMO, just boot the ball as fast and far as they can to avoid pressure.

I'm off the forum for a day or so and come back to your kind words. Not sure what offended you specifically about what I said. If I do have a chip on my shoulder, which I'm willing to concede I may have, it's no bigger than the chip on your shoulder from continually finishing second to RASE in the "best team in NTX" conversation and that chip will only get bigger as you slide further down in the pecking order. Now that I think about it, maybe that's it, would you have even responded to my post if I hadn't referred to them as being the only? I wasn't intentially trying to slight your team just trying to give an honest opinion.

With respect to possession, I was challenging and will continue to challenge, PPD on his claim of stringing 5-10-15 completed passes together in a row. What you are referring to with your 70-80% is overall team possession which is not the same thing. Yes, in those games you referenced back in the early spring season we were dominated from a team possession standpoint by better teams, but there were no 5 completed passes being strung together, not by Scott nor by your team. With respect to the game against your team, you controlled the game primarily because of your size and strength and because you had better players - you had the better team - which is what I acknowledged in my post back then (despite the chip on my shoulder). I made no excuses at the time. I simply acknowledged the truth of being dominated by a superior team and now you want to flip that around and use it against me to make your argument against something I wasn't even questioning. Oh, and when I mentioned only "one team", I was meaning it to mean overall on the most consistent basis of being able to implement that style of play. I wasn't meaning specifically against our team. My bad for being unclear on that in my initial.

Funny thing is, in your last couple of sentences, you are basically saying the same thing I was trying to say about the intent/execution part (but maybe did a poor job of communicating) with the exception of your contention that all except for 2 or 3 play bootball. Of course you feel as though you are in that exclusive 2 or 3, but I think there are a lot more teams that try, including us, but still not able to string together the 5, 10 etc. which is what prompted my response to begin with.

KnKsDad wrote:I'm off the forum for a day or so and come back to your kind words. Not sure what offended you specifically about what I said. If I do have a chip on my shoulder, which I'm willing to concede I may have, it's no bigger than the chip on your shoulder from continually finishing second to RASE in the "best team in NTX" conversation and that chip will only get bigger as you slide further down in the pecking order. Now that I think about it, maybe that's it, would you have even responded to my post if I hadn't referred to them as being the only? I wasn't intentially trying to slight your team just trying to give an honest opinion.

With respect to possession, I was challenging and will continue to challenge, PPD on his claim of stringing 5-10-15 completed passes together in a row. What you are referring to with your 70-80% is overall team possession which is not the same thing. Yes, in those games you referenced back in the early spring season we were dominated from a team possession standpoint by better teams, but there were no 5 completed passes being strung together, not by Scott nor by your team. With respect to the game against your team, you controlled the game primarily because of your size and strength and because you had better players - you had the better team - which is what I acknowledged in my post back then (despite the chip on my shoulder). I made no excuses at the time. I simply acknowledged the truth of being dominated by a superior team and now you want to flip that around and use it against me to make your argument against something I wasn't even questioning. Oh, and when I mentioned only "one team", I was meaning it to mean overall on the most consistent basis of being able to implement that style of play. I wasn't meaning specifically against our team. My bad for being unclear on that in my initial.

Funny thing is, in your last couple of sentences, you are basically saying the same thing I was trying to say about the intent/execution part (but maybe did a poor job of communicating) with the exception of your contention that all except for 2 or 3 play bootball. Of course you feel as though you are in that exclusive 2 or 3, but I think there are a lot more teams that try, including us, but still not able to string together the 5, 10 etc. which is what prompted my response to begin with.

I'd be willing to bet there were 5 passes strung together in either of those games.  That's all I was trying to say.  After reading it back, maybe I could've sugar coated it a bit more.  I have no problem losing to RASE or anyone else for that matter.  Mainly because I'm not actually playing in the games.  I just watch them.  I do have a problem with some of the BS that is posted on here that is so far from what actually happens it's unbelievable.  With that being said, I guess I don't have to log on and read so most of the time I don't bother to post.  In this case, I just felt the need to respond to it.  You have your opinion and that's fine just relax about your team.  You guys will be fine and I'm sure my kid's team will be right there beside y'all in D2 next year.  We can compare chips then.


I said 2 or 3 that we play against. We don't play against ourselves.

As a result of this little debate, I will certainly be taking note of those consecutive completed passes. I agree with you about some of the BS on here and would expect to be called out on it if what I say is deemed to be such, just like I responded to what I felt was an exageration.

With respect to our team, I'm good. Feel blessed to be in D1. Considering we lost 6 of our top 12 players after the fall season, I'm still amazed. Not to mention that we played virtually the entire spring season with one of our best all-around players/defensive stopper on the shelf with a broken bone in her foot suffered in Roundup (right before the two humblings at the hands of Scott which you cited). Kind of like what the situation would be if your big center back missed the season. Despite what we've been through, we aren't ready to concede to D2 just yet. Still some games to be played between now and then.

First, let me preface this by saying that I don't have an 04 daughter, but am only offering my opinion on the debate, because I think a few of y'all bring up some good points. I'd like to address a few from my perspective:

1. "Possession" style soccer is utterly useless if only 1 player out of 11 has a consistently poor first touch.
2. Teams most often "practice" possession soccer, but do not play that way. The goal is the win by whatever means necessary. Teams should "Play like they practice and practice like they play." Unfortunately, that is not the case. Win by all means.
3. Successful seasons are not defined as they should be which is to look at where your daughter began and where she ended up (development wise). They are measured by wins/losses.
4. The pitch sizes for this age are ridiculous. A 10/11yo is completely unable to even switch the pitch (this one can be for another thread, but it just came to mind)
5. Since the pitches are so large, it makes playing through the midfield without perfect touches almost impossible, so the best way to get the ball up the pitch most efficiently is to bypass the midfield altogether. It masks the weaknesses of every team, which is completely understandable at this age. Even EPL teams resort to longball when they can't control the midfield.
6. Check a lot of "top teams" girls' birthdays. I'm betting that most of them were born in 03.

I'm not assigning blame to anyone. If there would be something to blame, it would be our system.

After puberty hits every girl and size, strength and speed start to even out, then this will be a different conversation.

Just my observations. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers.

Coach&Ref wrote:
6. Check a lot of "top teams" girls' birthdays. I'm betting that most of them were born in 03.

Darn those outliers!

soccersounder wrote:Dang... Or like the OG Truedog would say: Dang Dang.

10sdad's farewell didnt even make it past the 1st page, before the highjack...

10sdad, it will be alright. I remember someone I know well, cain909, who left back in the turfmonster days, but reappeared. Or maybe you will go the route of DJFat, eject and never come back... Even I have been away for close to a year at one time, but without the swan song...

As far as playing in PPL, my own Niece was in PPL at u12 and didnt get to D1 until her second to last year of Select. This year she is Team Captain as a Sophomore of her D1 College Team.. Good luck in here and with the DD

So what college does she play for?