Top 20 '00 Teams In LHGCL?

Just to clarify a couple of things: Looking up last season's results suggests the winning Gold team is not a "mid level D1" team. They were 4th in D1 last year and only point out of 3rd which qualified them to play Premier League. I also went back and looked at the Plano tournament results and it looks like they only had one goal scored against them by a D1 rival.

The promotion and relegation system rewards consistency and works. Sure, the top couple of teams in a given division are probably on par with the bottom couple of teams in the division above. But that stands to reason.

Also, basing judgement on tournament results is flawed since most of the better teams use them to learn, not necessarily win (big tournaments excepted). New formations, players in new positions, sometimes even new players can all color the outcome.

Lastly, the ECNL teams are good. Top D1 teams can't really touch the top ECNL teams. At best they can compete with the mid-level ECNL squads. And really, that's as it should be.

DrPepper wrote:Just to clarify a couple of things: Looking up last season's results suggests the winning Gold team is not a "mid level D1" team. They were 4th  in D1 last year and only point out of 3rd which qualified them to play Premier League. I also went back and looked at the Plano tournament results and it looks like they only had one goal scored against them by a D1 rival.

The promotion and relegation system rewards consistency and works. Sure, the top couple of teams in a given division are probably on par with the bottom couple of teams in the division above. But that stands to reason.

Also, basing judgement on tournament results is flawed since most of the better teams use them to learn, not necessarily win (big tournaments excepted). New formations, players in new positions, sometimes even new players can all color the outcome.

Lastly, the ECNL teams are good. Top D1 teams can't really touch the top ECNL teams. At best they can compete with the mid-level ECNL squads. And really, that's as it should be.

Just want to clarify, my comment regarding a mid level D1 team winning Gold was in no way meant to slight Andromeda. I was speaking loosely, only meaning to say that it wasn't the top team from D1 (based on last season results). Trust me, we have much respect for them and others, but it's a respect born out of head to head competition on the field.

With respect to your comment regarding the promotion/relegation system, I can't say I share that opinion, but then again I'm viewing it through a narrow window of time of the last couple of seasons. Regarding your comment about top couple of teams being on par with lower couple of teams, I will also give the same opinion I've shared before and that is that recently/currently the top couple of teams are on par with most of the teams in division above (D3/2). I know that last statement will invite criticism and the only way to really settle it is by performance on the field, which is the way it should be.

Here is my two cents...I think that fever would be top half of D2 for sure. That takes into account the rise in weekly competition you should see in a higher division and other normal factors. I think they are a good side. Do I think they take D2...no, but I think they would be in the conversation. CE is solid. I think they would battle in the lower half of D1 or be in the top 2 of D2.

KnKsDad wrote:

Packrabbit wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:Can't say I disagree with you on #1 and #2, but we're not talking U11. With respect to #3, I never said "there are so many great teams in lower divisions", but I will contend there were several better teams in D3 last year than teams that were in divisions above them. However this is a new year with a new set of variables, so we'll have to see how everything plays out. But I would not look at a single tournament result or a single game outcome, win or lose, to form a conclusion about a team, but would look at their overall body of work over time vs. higher ranked opponents.

Also, your comment about teams not able to win tournaments when higher seeded teams are present applies to those very same higher seeded teams that are present who also never win them. Only one team can win it. It's the overall performance that should be looked at. And frankly how often does it happen that lower division teams like in D3 for instance even get bracketed with D1/D2 teams in a major tournament? I can only speak for our team and say hardly ever.

Classic Elite would be a good upper level D2, mid level D1 team in the NTX. IMO, Classic would not have made it to the Gold Bracket's semi's or finals.

You're just like Bugs, always starting some mess with poor old Elmer.. Did you mean to say "would not be a good..."? Otherwise, what you're saying reflects somewhat of a contradiction. First you say they would be a good upper level D2/midlevel D1 team in NTX, but also say they would not have made it to the Gold semis or finals. It is those very same level teams that comprised Gold with a mid level D1 NTX team winning it all, so how can you say that? What you say lacks credibility. The top 4 finishers (and maybe a couple others, too) in Silver A could have made it to the Gold semis/finals. Now would they have actually made it is another question. No doubt the road to get there would have presented much more of challenge, so the odds would be a little less favorable. No 12-0, 11-0 type blowouts along the way, but certainly doable. Are you prejudicially basing your opinion on the fact that CE beat a lowly D3 team twice along the way? My judgments are based on what actually happens on the field. Btw, did you even see any of the Silver A games involving said teams? I did, actually had a front row seat and there was some serious ball being played. Now please do tell, how is it that a #5 STX team (pre-tourney) makes it to Gold semis when a #4 STX team (pre-tourney) wouldn't have been able to? (Rankings have now have flipped - as a result of this tourney I assume). I know you're just trying to stir things up and I also realize I'm obliging you by responding, but I'm gonna tell it straight based on results/facts. Here's another little fun fact for you, CE beat Austin 2-0 back on April 13th. The only real question is why the final 4 in Silver A weren't grouped in Gold to begin with, but you need to direct that to the TD. So, what say ye? Or should I say, what up doc? Oh, and I'm no Elmer Fudd...lol

KnK,

I've read some of your posts, and I'm not trying to talk smack, but you seem to imply your team has not been given a fair chance to win advancement.

I'm curious, how are the majority of Fever's goals scored? Shots by the forwards and mids, maybe three or four shooters at a time, from the 18 and further? Or, 1v1 with the goalie getting in behind the defenders on long balls?

CE could be a strong upper to mid level D2 team in LH. CE has a strong D-Line and CE can hit from the box out. I have to agree with a previous post. I don't think CE could have taken Gold. They might have taken the bracket, but not with a score like 11-0

dadof3 wrote:Here is my two cents...I think that fever would be top half of D2 for sure. That takes into account the rise in weekly competition you should see in a higher division and other normal factors. I think they are a good side. Do I think they take D2...no, but I think they would be in the conversation. CE is solid. I think they would battle in the lower half of D1 or be in the top 2 of D2.

Appreciate your favorable view and can't disagree with you, but if we continue to have games like last night, the discussion becomes irrelevant. Very disappointing...

scoobysnacks wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:

Packrabbit wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:Can't say I disagree with you on #1 and #2, but we're not talking U11. With respect to #3, I never said "there are so many great teams in lower divisions", but I will contend there were several better teams in D3 last year than teams that were in divisions above them. However this is a new year with a new set of variables, so we'll have to see how everything plays out. But I would not look at a single tournament result or a single game outcome, win or lose, to form a conclusion about a team, but would look at their overall body of work over time vs. higher ranked opponents.

Also, your comment about teams not able to win tournaments when higher seeded teams are present applies to those very same higher seeded teams that are present who also never win them. Only one team can win it. It's the overall performance that should be looked at. And frankly how often does it happen that lower division teams like in D3 for instance even get bracketed with D1/D2 teams in a major tournament? I can only speak for our team and say hardly ever.

Classic Elite would be a good upper level D2, mid level D1 team in the NTX. IMO, Classic would not have made it to the Gold Bracket's semi's or finals.

You're just like Bugs, always starting some mess with poor old Elmer.. Did you mean to say "would not be a good..."? Otherwise, what you're saying reflects somewhat of a contradiction. First you say they would be a good upper level D2/midlevel D1 team in NTX, but also say they would not have made it to the Gold semis or finals. It is those very same level teams that comprised Gold with a mid level D1 NTX team winning it all, so how can you say that? What you say lacks credibility. The top 4 finishers (and maybe a couple others, too) in Silver A could have made it to the Gold semis/finals. Now would they have actually made it is another question. No doubt the road to get there would have presented much more of challenge, so the odds would be a little less favorable. No 12-0, 11-0 type blowouts along the way, but certainly doable. Are you prejudicially basing your opinion on the fact that CE beat a lowly D3 team twice along the way? My judgments are based on what actually happens on the field. Btw, did you even see any of the Silver A games involving said teams? I did, actually had a front row seat and there was some serious ball being played. Now please do tell, how is it that a #5 STX team (pre-tourney) makes it to Gold semis when a #4 STX team (pre-tourney) wouldn't have been able to? (Rankings have now have flipped - as a result of this tourney I assume). I know you're just trying to stir things up and I also realize I'm obliging you by responding, but I'm gonna tell it straight based on results/facts. Here's another little fun fact for you, CE beat Austin 2-0 back on April 13th. The only real question is why the final 4 in Silver A weren't grouped in Gold to begin with, but you need to direct that to the TD. So, what say ye? Or should I say, what up doc? Oh, and I'm no Elmer Fudd...lol

KnK,

I've read some of your posts, and I'm not trying to talk smack, but you seem to imply your team has not been given a fair chance to win advancement.

I'm curious, how are the majority of Fever's goals scored? Shots by the forwards and mids, maybe three or four shooters at a time, from the 18 and further? Or, 1v1 with the goalie getting in behind the defenders on long balls?

CE could be a strong upper to mid level D2 team in LH. CE has a strong D-Line and CE can hit from the box out. I have to agree with a previous post. I don't think CE could have taken Gold. They might have taken the bracket, but not with a score like 11-0

Scoob, I didn't take it as smack. In response, I will say that the primary fault for our team not advancing is our own for failing to handle our business on the field. You win and the rest will take care of itself. But one can't lose sight of the reality that under current structure/promotion and relegation rules, the margin is thin, basically requiring a team to run the table to gain advancement if they are from an independent club, which is a very challenging feat. All teams face that same challenge, but with the independent club there is no back up option. My issue has more to do with less deserving teams gaining placement/promotion under the current system. However, the response usually given is either to go petition for change, get elected to the board or whatever, or move DD to another team, etc., so I'm tired of that debate. It is what it is.

With respect to how our team scores, it is generally by our mids/forwards from inside the 18 through penetration. Very rarely on long balls. I know it may sound like a cliche, but we do try to play possession style soccer. Hopefully you won't use that little scouting report against us..lol

I can't disagree with you about CE. IMO they are a very good team as we got to witness twice firsthand. They probably would not have taken Gold, but the previous post (in what I believe was an attempt to discredit our team) stated the opinion that they would not have made the semis or final. All I was stating was the fact that they previously did defeat a team that did make it to the Gold final, so it wouldn't have been so improbable for them to make it that far.

KnKs,
Which team in the gold final are you talking about?

soccermom004 wrote:KnKs,
Which team in the gold final are you talking about?  

I am not sure what it is you are asking, but the back and forth started with the comment that Classics Elite (who played in Silver A) were not a good enough team to have made it to the semis or finals of the PLD Gold division.

Above you stated that CE previously beat a team that did make it to the Gold final. I was asking if it was Creeks or Andromeda? Unless you are talking about a different tournament.

'00 LHGCL Current Weekly Top 20
After the first 2 weeks of season, the Coach PR Staff has finally collected enough relevant data to declare The Top 20. These rankings are not based on one's current division, reputations or coulda/shoulda, but actual results from the pitch.

Wins, Losses, Ties, Goals For & Against, Competition and Cash were statistical factors used to make these complicated calculations. More weight was been given to league matches played, than to tournament outings.

Vigorous disagreement, lobbying and counter (incorrect) Top 20's rankings with these precisely calculated rankings is expected and encouraged.

1) SOLAR--ELITE 00G

2) STING CENTRAL 00G (PARKER):
3) ANDROMEDA FC:  
4)SOLAR--00G GOLD
5)STING 00G (FLANAGAN):  
6) STING 00 ROYAL (BROWN):  
7) STING FERRETTI
8 )AZTECS FC
9) SOLAR 00 HOPKINS:
10) D'FEETERS 00 PATULEA:
11) MUSTANGS BUSSEY
12) FC DALLAS 00G BLUE:
13) STING NORTH 00 GARRETT:
14) DALLAS TEXANS-North
15) FORT WORTH FC-WHITE
16) FC DALLAS 00G EAST:
17) FCD 00G PREMIER
18) STING WEST 00 (WEST)
19) STING CENTRAL 00G ROYAL (MARTIN)
20) FLASH

Packrabbit wrote:'00 LHGCL Current Weekly Top 20
After the first 2 weeks of season, the Coach PR Staff has finally collected enough relevant data to declare The Top 20. These rankings are not based on one's current division, reputations or coulda/shoulda, but actual results from the pitch.

Wins, Losses, Ties, Goals For & Against, Competition and Cash were statistical factors used to make these complicated calculations. More weight was been given to league matches played, than to tournament outings.

Vigorous disagreement, lobbying and counter (incorrect) Top 20's rankings with these precisely calculated rankings is expected and encouraged.

1) SOLAR--ELITE 00G

2) STING CENTRAL 00G (PARKER):
3) ANDROMEDA FC:  
4)SOLAR--00G GOLD
5)STING 00G (FLANAGAN):  
6) STING 00 ROYAL (BROWN):  
7) STING FERRETTI
8 )AZTECS FC
9) SOLAR 00 HOPKINS:
10) D'FEETERS 00 PATULEA:
11) MUSTANGS BUSSEY
12) FC DALLAS 00G BLUE:
13) STING NORTH 00 GARRETT:
14) DALLAS TEXANS-North
15) FORT WORTH FC-WHITE
16) FC DALLAS 00G EAST:
17) FCD 00G PREMIER
18) STING WEST 00 (WEST)
19) STING CENTRAL 00G ROYAL (MARTIN)
20) FLASH

For those of you frightened or outraged by your ranking? RELAX!! Just win, tie, score some goals... Buy a cocktail... The ranking isn't permanent, it'll change next week!

soccermom004 wrote:Above you stated that CE previously beat a team that did make it to the Gold final.  I was asking if it was Creeks or Andromeda?  Unless you are talking about a different tournament.

Soccermom, I understand now why you asked your question. My fault. I guess I need to schedule that optometrist appointment or the tourney folks pulled a switch and corrected a misprint. The team I was referring to that CE beat was the Austin Texans who, as I see now, only made it to the semis. I could have sworn the tourney site had them shown as losing 1-0 to Andromeda in the final, but obviously I am mistaken. Sad thing is, before I responded to you the first time, I went back and checked the site and still didn't catch my mistake. Sorry for my mistatement.

1) SOLAR--ELITE 00G

2) STING 00G (FLANAGAN):
3) ANDROMEDA FC:
4) STING 00 ROYAL (BROWN)
5) STING CENTRAL 00G (PARKER)
6) FC DALLAS 00G BLUE
7) SOLAR--00G GOLD
8 ) AZTECS FC
9) SOLAR 00 HOPKINS:
10) D'FEETERS 00 PATULEA
11) STING NORTH 00 GARRETT
12) MUSTANGS BUSSEY
13) Fever
14) DALLAS TEXANS-North
15) STING FERRETTI
16) FORT WORTH FC-WHITE
17) FCD 00G PREMIER
18) STING WEST 00 (WEST)
19) STING CENTRAL 00G ROYAL (MARTIN)
20) FC DALLAS 00G EAST

Packrabbit wrote:'00 LHGCL Current Weekly Top 20
After the first 2 weeks of season, the Coach PR Staff has finally collected enough relevant data to declare The Top 20. These rankings are not based on one's current division, reputations or coulda/shoulda, but actual results from the pitch.

Wins, Losses, Ties, Goals For & Against, Competition and Cash were statistical factors used to make these complicated calculations. More weight was been given to league matches played, than to tournament outings.

Vigorous disagreement, lobbying and counter (incorrect) Top 20's rankings with these precisely calculated rankings is expected and encouraged.

1) SOLAR--ELITE 00G

2) STING CENTRAL 00G (PARKER):
3) ANDROMEDA FC:  
4)SOLAR--00G GOLD
5)STING 00G (FLANAGAN):  
6) STING 00 ROYAL (BROWN):  
7) STING FERRETTI
8 )AZTECS FC
9) SOLAR 00 HOPKINS:
10) D'FEETERS 00 PATULEA:
11) MUSTANGS BUSSEY
12) FC DALLAS 00G BLUE:
13) STING NORTH 00 GARRETT:
14) DALLAS TEXANS-North
15) FORT WORTH FC-WHITE
16) FC DALLAS 00G EAST:
17) FCD 00G PREMIER
18) STING WEST 00 (WEST)
19) STING CENTRAL 00G ROYAL (MARTIN)
20) FLASH

What is wrong with using the standings like everyone else. Can just debate which games they should have won or tied that they didn't.

Aw Lefty, that would just take all of the fun out of it!

InaB wrote:Aw Lefty, that would just take all of the fun out of it!

'Xactly! Just as in any top 20 ranking, games, scoring, competition and division rank matter (as they become available)! If the '00 top 20 is not something inquiring minds want to know, there's always happy hour!

I'm a little confused at how some of the teams are being evaluated. There's clear bias without common opponents, or lack thereof, being considered. It's like ranking FBS and FCS schools in football. This would be better suited for week 6 or 7 after you have better info anyhow.

I think that week to week, the list will change as teams go through the jam-packed fall schedule. There are already some shifts of power (so to speak) and I expect more as the season progresses. Some of the top teams on the list will more than likely stay where they are - but then again, we will have to see where injuries hit.

I say we take another sound check the first part of October and then in November. By then we will have more of a definitive view of who gets better, who gets worse and who stays the same.

Better ranking

1. Solar Chelsea Elite
2. Sting Brown
3. Sting Flannagan
4. Sting Parker
5. Andromeda
6. FC Dallas Blue
7. Solar
8. Solar Gold
9. Sting Garrett
10. Aztecs
11. D'Feeters
12. Mustangs Bussey
13. Sting Ferretti
14. FC Dallas Premier
15. FC Dallas East
16. Dallas Texans N
17. Sting W
18. Fever
19. Ft Worth W
20. ??

Send-It, I totally missed your top 20, you have to speak up in this crowd! I see there is much we agree on most of these ranking, but at least we have 2 opinions.

I understand some of you are a little hesitant to speak up bc fear of invoking your opponents wrath...For those of you who are "little confused, about the clear bias", and some who are miffed about your ranking (or not being ranked)... LIGHTEN UP!  these rankings are based on the the 2nd week of play, and its not like there are Bowl Bids, National Championship and TV contracts linked to these Top 20's! The best part, is the rankings will change with wins and losses... the cream will rise to the top.

There has been a lot of talk about which team belongs where, so Send-It and I have bravely addressed the issue.  If we take some innuendo, mix in actual scores from recent league matches and the Plano tournament, with some common opponents... add a little "educated" opinion, splash with common sense... bake to optimal temperature, and poof! You have a discussion about where teams belong in LHGCL! Talk about some uptight, thankless people.. geez... some comments to explain my thinking so people will quit sending me "death by wedgie" threats... pleez... like I wear underwear...

Pack Top 20:  Comments:[/b] I HAVE TEAMS RANKED BC...and Some scores not in when posts
1)SOLAR--ELITE 00G:  No explanation required...

2) STING (PARKER): Parker upset a top ranked team, Sting Brown
3) ANDROMEDA FC: Andro won its league game match and did well in Plano Invitational
4)SOLAR--00G GOLD:  Has shown it can play with these top teams, and hasn't stumbled this season.
5)STING (FLANAGAN): Flanagan didn't dominate its first match it was favored in, but should go up in the ranking
6) STING (BROWN):  Brown lost a match it was favored to win, so it dropped to #6
7) STING FERRETTI: Aztec loss not in when we went to press, but has surprised... will drop next week.
8 )AZTECS FC
9) SOLAR 00 HOPKINS: New team no track record, but kept it tight with Brown.
10) D'FEETERS 00
11) MUSTANGS BUSSEY
12) FC DALLAS BLUE: Got blown out by Solar Pulp, but respectable in Plano Tournament
13) STING  GARRETT: New team developing, but has only scored one goal in league and Plano tournament.
14) DTX-N
15) FW FC-WHITE:  Team is winning it division and scoring goals.
16) FCD 00G EAST: Big 4-2 win over Sting West
17) FCD 00G PREMIER:  Has done enough to get here
18) STING (WEST)
19) STING (MARTIN)
20) FLASH:  Flash big upset over Fever got them in for this week; Fever would've been farther up in mix this had it taken care of business in Plano and beat Classic CE. But I would expect Fever in top 20 shortly.