06 Outlook is Promising

http://blog.3four3.com/2012/03/23/a-phenomenal-soccer-education-in-12-minutes-video/

Those boys are playing full field 11v11 @u11.

Top teams in socal go 11v11 same time as we do (mostly u10 year).

Kids should be getting plenty of small sided in training and other venues. Assigning all this blame on when NTX  goes to 11v11 is easy to do, but once you start really looking into it....doesn't hold much water.  

STX and several other areas that don't put any more girls on national team rosters than we do stay small sided for longer. We need to be looking more at coaching and style of play than 11v11.

Frankly i dont agree that it doesnt hold water. It is part of the problem.

Problem is multifaceted...

1. Poor coaching
2. Over abundance of teams, see number 1.
3. Big field introduced to early in development.

Lets look at Surf in Socal. I looked into them a few months back because of a possible job opening for me in that area. They have 3 06 teams. Thats it.

How many does Sting, LP, FCD, and Solar have?

The boys team coach by Brian K. is outstanding, they also see their coach more than once or twice per week. There is a reason a boy from that team has been at La Masia for a couple years now and ShuShu could have gone. Kid is a man child, and his dad is a nice guy. Had the pleasure of chatting with that team during this years DC.

Its not just the 11v11, but it plays a big part, when there isnt quality coaching, there isnt quality time spent with the coach, and then touches on the ball are robbed from them buy a monstrous field for 11v11.

Borussia wrote:Frankly i dont agree that it doesnt hold water.  It is part of the problem.

Problem is multifaceted...

1. Poor coaching
2. Over abundance of teams, see number 1.
3. Big field introduced to early in development.

Lets look at Surf in Socal.  I looked into them a few months back because of a possible job opening for me in that area.  They have 3 06 teams.  Thats it.

How many does Sting, LP, FCD, and Solar have?

The boys team coach by Brian K. is outstanding, they also see their coach more than once or twice per week.  There is a reason a boy from that team has been at La Masia for a couple years now and ShuShu could have gone. Kid is a man child, and his dad is a nice guy.  Had the pleasure of chatting with that team during this years DC.

Its not just the 11v11, but it plays a big part, when there isnt quality coaching, there isnt quality time spent with the coach, and then touches on the ball are robbed from them buy a monstrous field for 11v11.

Sounds like you respect Brian K. If you get a chance, ask him what he thinks about 11v11 and whether he thinks it's a major cause of poor development. I was in the same boat when my kid was your age...the archives will have a bunch of posts from me railing against 11v11 at u9/u10. Over the years, lots of reading, lots of games, seen lots of youth soccer around the country, I've come to conclusion it's not that big a factor, and other factors are far more important. The size of the field relative to the players has more of an impact than 11v11 IMO.

Nobody seems to be able to answer why STX is generally behind NTX and they don't play 11v11 until later, and the only teams that are on par with NTX are the ones that play their kids up several years so they end up playing 11v11 same time we do.

I will ask him.

All the other factors are bigger contributors to the decline as they get older, 11v11 is a part of it. It allows for those same bad coaches to keep adding to their rosters.

Borussia wrote:I will ask him.

All the other factors are bigger contributors to the decline as they get older, 11v11 is a part of it.  It allows for those same bad coaches to keep adding to their rosters.

http://www.ecaeurope.com/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf

Check this out...read it a while back and came away thinking the format for games seems like a very small piece of the puzzle. There is no standard at pro academies across the world. What is standard, is that they train far more than we do. Obviously our girls are not pros in pro academies, but I think the idea stills holds that the competitive games should be a tiny, tiny percentage of their weekly touches, so IMO what they're doing the rest of the time probably has far more an effect on who can do what and when. Other than a few academic type coaches posting online articles who aren't actually running major programs, I couldn't find any clear justification playing 11v11 at 11 stunts development.

From the source above, ages the pros start playing 11v11:
Ajax 12
Arsenal 11
Barca 13 (though I know they enter 11v11 tourneys younger than that)
Bayern 11
Inter 13
NK dinamo 11 (Croatia)
RC Lens 13 (France)
R. Standard 11 (Belgium)
Sporting 13 (Portugal)

And all those you listed and could keep listing have far superior coaching AND train more than we do, that is why the field size doesnt matter to them.

Borussia wrote:And all those you listed and could keep listing have far superior coaching AND train more than we do, that is why the field size doesnt matter to them.  

Agreed. I'm just saying it doesn't matter THAT much for us either...as evidenced by the kids with superior coaching and who train outside team practices being the ones you end up seeing as the top players...regardless whether they played 11v11. I'm always open to be convinced otherwise, just haven't seen any evidence of it being a major difference maker other than what we see in USSF docs, and we know how credible USSF is regarding player development.

Surf cup 2013 DD team played the top squad from a state whose association mandates 11v11 doesn't start until u12. I couldn't pick up a single thing they were doing better than our girls, most of whom started 11v11 at least a year before select. They didn't score a goal in the tournament.

Only thing that holds some sway with me is one area and club that DOES seem to over represent on placing national team players  is Colorado and Colorado Rush. Link below talks about Colorado moving to 11v11 at u11 starting this fall. Given how impressed I've been with the style of play of Colorado rush top teams, and they built the formation for a player like Lyndsey Horan, I'm not gonna argue against it being a good idea. But again, top rush teams play up anyway, so whatever they're doing with the masses is not the same program they're using for the top players.


http://www.coloradorush.com/index.php/9-popular-stories/837-colorado-rush-announces-u11-change-to-8v8

Sorry, the article talks about exact opposite from what you said, they are moving to 8x8 small side for player development.

haterinho wrote:


Only thing that holds some sway with me is one area and club that DOES seem to over represent on placing national team players  is Colorado and Colorado Rush. Link below talks about Colorado moving to 11v11 at u11 starting this fall. Given how impressed I've been with the style of play of Colorado rush top teams, and they built the formation for a player like Lyndsey Horan, I'm not gonna argue against it being a good idea. But again, top rush teams play up anyway, so whatever they're doing with the masses is not the same program they're using for the top players.


http://www.coloradorush.com/index.php/9-popular-stories/837-colorado-rush-announces-u11-change-to-8v8

Just a typo on my part.... meant to type 8v8...I brought it up because I was trying to think of the areas that do put a ton of girls on national teams and wanted to investigate their playing formats. Obviously if they are just now going to 8v8, their past success can't be attributed to it...especially since we know their top players play up anyway.

I think 06s should keep doing what they're doing. Don't copy the other age groups and build one or two super teams that run around claiming they are so good they won't play their own age until select. Keep challenging your teams, but also be willing to continue to test yourself against peers. If you can keep the good will skeet mentions exists among the parent groups, that's huge and will trickle to the girls and coaches and hopefully they'll be less focused on establishing recruiting dominance as the "top" team and more willing to play each other. That could raise the level of the entire age group as the best teams are still in the pool, and now there are more players that have been exposed to the style of play and speed of play of the top. That's one difference I notice about socal and east coast..their top teams play each other over and over and over, year after year.

Don't think moving to smaller sided is a BAD idea, just asking the question If you leave everything else the same except move to 8v8, will you get any different outcome in the types of players we produce? Wholesale overhaul of lake highlands referee infrastructure and replacing it with a new focus on minimizing physicality and encouraging technical play would have a far greater impact IMO.

planogirl wrote:Sorry, the article talks about exact opposite from what you said, they are moving to 8x8 small side for player development.

haterinho wrote:


Only thing that holds some sway with me is one area and club that DOES seem to over represent on placing national team players  is Colorado and Colorado Rush. Link below talks about Colorado moving to 11v11 at u11 starting this fall. Given how impressed I've been with the style of play of Colorado rush top teams, and they built the formation for a player like Lyndsey Horan, I'm not gonna argue against it being a good idea. But again, top rush teams play up anyway, so whatever they're doing with the masses is not the same program they're using for the top players.


http://www.coloradorush.com/index.php/9-popular-stories/837-colorado-rush-announces-u11-change-to-8v8

You are correct, if all else stays the same but we go to small sided, we will not see any improvement. Just look at STX.

It would take wholesale change, if not, the playing format still impacts development as it limits the touches.

I have a suggestion... This spring how about every 06 team sign multiple squads up for Futsal or 6v6?

Borussia wrote:I will ask him.

All the other factors are bigger contributors to the decline as they get older, 11v11 is a part of it.  It allows for those same bad coaches to keep adding to their rosters.

My BB's coach coached in Cali until a year ago and was part of that system for a very long time. He said their kids play smaller sided games on smaller fields with small goals longer than kids here do. His take on it was using small goals is key. It's easier for a kid to learn how to chip a ball over the goalie's head over and over than use true foot skills to shoot on a little goal. Also, he said there isn't all the club hopping/ shopping business you see here going on there.

I'll leave this here for everyone to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Pc1vf_tlg

It's not that complicated.

The rest of the world trains and coaches youth players primarily to DEVELOP the players.

NTX specifically trains and coaches youth players to win games next weekend.

Clearly in the US the 'pay to play model' has a huge impact, but that does not explain why w/I the US, NTX players still seem behind developmentally for the most part.

Lefty wrote:It's not that complicated.  

The rest of the world trains and coaches youth players primarily to DEVELOP the players.  

NTX specifically trains and coaches youth players to win games next weekend.

Clearly in the US the 'pay to play model' has a huge impact, but that does not explain why w/I the US, NTX players still seem behind developmentally for the most part.    

Behind who? International players? Ok - I agree. But behind other areas in the US? I don't really see it. Most years NTX is #2 behind socal in college commits. I know we like to use it, but national team placements isn't a great criteria to use for judging this...just too many other factors involved. And even if you do, when you look at the areas that are putting more kids on national teams, they aren't developing players (format wise) any differently than we are, and they definitely aren't waiting until 13 or 14 years old to play 11v11 like some international academies....Heck some are already committed to colleges at 14.

The problem with player development is an across the board American issue. The folks out there who are addressing it are taking a much more wholistic approach than focusing so much on when they go 11v11.