How to Fix Lake Highlands

Did not say they lacked quality...said from 99s and younger an argument can be made they are no the longer top dogs in terms of quality in NTX...which suggests they may be today's big 2 but it's not guaranteed they will be tomorrow

Regardless, the question remains no matter which clubs are currently on top in the turf wars...should LH cater to the market interests of clubs or to the best interests of girls and their parents. Not that the two are always mutually exclusive, but we have seen there are times one is sacrificed for the other.

"should LH cater to the market interests of clubs or to the best interests of girls and their parents"

LMAO!! without the clubs LH would fold, kids and parents come and go, the clubs are their customers not you and me.....

silentparent wrote:"should LH cater to the market interests of clubs or to the best interests of girls and their parents"

LMAO!! without the clubs LH would fold, kids and parents come and go, the clubs are their customers not you and me.....

You're missing my point. Why do you think you've heard nary a peep about CPP from ECNL parents? Or the substitution rules? Or discovery player rules? Because everyone understands those rules are what the CLUBS want and the league is titled elite CLUBS national league. At this point your admission to the league is about who you are as a CLUB and what competitive impact you might have on existing CLUBS already in the league. Once in, your CLUB is set unless you put out horrifically terrible teams year after year such that ECNL has no choice but to kick you out to protect the brand. Parents will stomach just about anything the league sends down because the college exposure carrot is quite real and tangible and is not available in such abundance anywhere else. CLUBS truly are ECNL's customers, and without the top 9 or 10 CLUBS, ECNL would fold quickly.

LH can offer no such college exposure carrot, and admission is not CLUB based. Any dad can get together 13 other girls, and if he's good enough, they pay the league fees and earn their admission to Lake highlands via their performance on the field. Any group of parents can take 75% of their players and move to any other club at any time...or start their own club if they so choose. When TFC folded those TEAMS picked up and moved to another club and the league didn't miss a beat. B.Coralli could get put in jail tomorrow and Sting's assets seized, and LH would still have the same number of teams next year as they do this year. It's clear the LH customers are TEAMS, not clubs.

LH is based on promotion / relegation, which is NOT in the market interests of big clubs who would like their status preserved perpetually without the requirement of having to win. Whether promotion / relegation is good for player development is an important topic in this discussion, but it really all boils down to that one issue. Eliminate promotion/relegation and CPP becomes a non factor.

sting may have quality (or not depends on who you ask) but the reality is Sting is numbers and financially a small player. Liverpool, FCD, and Texans have the numbers and money and it is a very big step down from there.

But for all of the complaints about the bigs running the league and CPP etc. The only issue that really matters for the small clubs and idies is poaching (currently sponsered by the ECNL) None of those other rules matter because the bigs will start in on the talented girls from the non ecnl affiliated teams all the way down in academy. Oh your DD has to play for an ecnl affiliated club. Oh you have to get in now or she will not get to play ECNL. Now season after season of losing your best talent, what do you think you are left with as a small team?

go99 wrote:sting may have quality (or not depends on who you ask) but the reality is Sting is numbers and financially a small player.  Liverpool, FCD, and Texans have the numbers and money and it is a very big step down from there.

But for all of the complaints about the bigs running the league and CPP etc.  The only issue that really matters for the small clubs and idies is poaching (currently sponsered by the ECNL)  None of those other rules matter because the bigs will start in on the talented girls from the non ecnl affiliated teams all the way down in academy.  Oh your DD has to play for an ecnl affiliated club.  Oh you have to get in now or she will not get to play ECNL.  Now season after season of losing your best talent, what do you think you are left with as a small team?

Sting is a small player? Lol. We are talking about girls soccer right? This is not about academy teams...one select team spends 3 to 5 times the money of one academy team. And total # of teams doesn't have much to do with market influence...Sting's DOC is on ECNL board and they have people on LH board and  relationships with local referee administration. With Medina and Tatu Sting commits have been outdoing everyone else in quantity and quality and texans are behind them with a big gap to third...until a few classes come through where fcd or solar keep their top players and outshine sting and texans...this is still the big 2 carrying the biggest stick. And any parent still falling for those promises about ecnl while still in academy deserves whatever they get.

yes sting is a small player financially. A pioneer locally in the girls game but then so was defeeters. So they may have history and quality (not here to dispute that) But as far as size and finances go they are not at the top and neither is solar. I could see either of those being swallowed up over the next several years. Solar being the most attractive buyout and defeeters seeming to be the easiest. Oh and while a select team may spend more, academy tends to be more profitable. It may soccer "club" but it is a soccer "business"

go99 wrote:yes sting is a small player financially. A pioneer locally in the girls game but then so was defeeters.  So they may have history and quality (not here to dispute that) But as far as size and finances go they are not at the top and neither is solar.  I could see either of those being swallowed up over the next several years. Solar being the most attractive buyout and defeeters seeming to be the easiest.  Oh and while a select team may spend more, academy tends to be more profitable.  It may soccer "club" but it is a soccer "business"

Have you seen balance sheets for any of these clubs? I haven't. I do know profit and revenue are not the same thing, and since I don't have the facts - I can't say that an academy team is more profitable than a select team. I do have a rough idea of how much the academy leagues cost (or used to anyway), and I'd be surprised if that were actually the case. Select teams have more players, and they typically pay 3 times the club dues, while annual league costs are about the same (LH fees may be slightly more, but not much for academy teams that play multiple academy leagues). Unless you're not including the money coaches make in your profit equation, it's hard to see how a single academy team could be more profitable than a single select team.

Yes Liverpool makes more money on academy because they have ten thousand academy teams and few top select teams...no argument there. But that's volume revenue at the base of the pyramid, not per team profitability, and it's pretty much irrelevant to a discussion about how LH is run and who the influencers are at the TOP of the pyramid. If you've been around a while, you should be have no illusions about who the big dogs are.

"It's clear the LH customers are TEAMS, not clubs."

LMAO again, Haterinho. Tell us ,how many times has your club voted for anything that LH does? Sat in? been consulted? ....NEVER! because the CLUBS do all that. The real customers of LH...

silentparent wrote:"It's clear the LH customers are TEAMS, not clubs."

LMAO again, Haterinho. Tell us ,how many times has your club voted for anything that LH does? Sat in? been consulted? ....NEVER! because the CLUBS do all that. The real customers of LH...

It doesn't sound like anything I say will convince you differently from what you already know, and it appears you cannot offer any rational support for your position. I'm afraid that means we've reached an impasse and will have to agree to disagree. I know our DOC has consulted with LH leadership as recently as last spring on numerous topics...including when the ecnl bye retention saga was playing out. I also know all you have to do is read this thread to see the vehicle by which individuals can submit proposals to LH.

haterinho wrote:

silentparent wrote:"It's clear the LH customers are TEAMS, not clubs."

LMAO again, Haterinho. Tell us ,how many times has your club voted for anything that LH does? Sat in? been consulted? ....NEVER! because the CLUBS do all that. The real customers of LH...

It doesn't sound like anything I say will convince you differently from what you already know, and it appears you cannot offer any rational support for your position. I'm afraid that means we've reached an impasse and will have to agree to disagree. I know our DOC has consulted with LH leadership as recently  as last spring on numerous topics...including when the ecnl bye retention saga was playing out. I also know all you have to do is read this thread to see the vehicle by which individuals can submit proposals to LH.

follow the money, who needs who more, the clubs or LH? LH doesnt want to let what happened to SDL happen to them. Where the big clubs form or use another league and take their teams to it. Most of LH is made up of club teams, what do you think would happen if those teams, STING, SOLAR,DALLAS TEXANS, FCD and Liverpool said we are going to form a new league because LH wont do what they want? LH goes down the tubes....

silentparent wrote:

haterinho wrote:

silentparent wrote:"It's clear the LH customers are TEAMS, not clubs."

LMAO again, Haterinho. Tell us ,how many times has your club voted for anything that LH does? Sat in? been consulted? ....NEVER! because the CLUBS do all that. The real customers of LH...

It doesn't sound like anything I say will convince you differently from what you already know, and it appears you cannot offer any rational support for your position. I'm afraid that means we've reached an impasse and will have to agree to disagree. I know our DOC has consulted with LH leadership as recently  as last spring on numerous topics...including when the ecnl bye retention saga was playing out. I also know all you have to do is read this thread to see the vehicle by which individuals can submit proposals to LH.

follow the money, who needs who more, the clubs or LH? LH  doesnt want to let what happened to SDL happen to them. Where the big clubs form or use another league and take their teams to it. Most of LH is made up of club teams, what do you think would happen if those teams, STING, SOLAR,DALLAS TEXANS, FCD and Liverpool said we are going to form a new league because LH wont do what they want? LH goes down the tubes....

Except you're ignoring the market dynamics and probably inflating Liverpool's influence in the select space as much as go99.

All those clubs you mentioned are competing, and they're not all trending in the same directions. Sting and Texans are the incumbents.

FCD and Solar are contenders to the throne, and both have been making gains by developing and retaining players...no reason for them to necessarily follow Sting and Texans into a new league when they are already doing well in the promotion / relegation environment.

And even IF they did, what makes you think they'd include Liverpool? LOL.

They'd just as soon make the league ECNL member clubs only and poach Liverpool's top few coaches rather than give them a seat in an exclusive clubs based league. The point is, LH cannot prevent this from happening by catering to a few clubs. Why not instead focus on the quality of their product, and the best interests of the kids playing the game.

haterinho wrote: Why not instead focus on the quality of their product, and the best interests of the kids playing the game.

A reasonable question. However those are no longer the goals of LHGCL and have not been for some time.

The brand became seriously diluted when they added D3 ($$$).
It slipped further when byes were granted to the clubs (US Club threat).
And finally, unrestricted player pass is definitely not in either of the interests you mentioned.

go99 wrote:yes sting is a small player financially. A pioneer locally in the girls game but then so was defeeters.  So they may have history and quality (not here to dispute that) But as far as size and finances go they are not at the top and neither is solar.  I could see either of those being swallowed up over the next several years. Solar being the most attractive buyout and defeeters seeming to be the easiest.  Oh and while a select team may spend more, academy tends to be more profitable.  It may soccer "club" but it is a soccer "business"

Feet will not be sold, there is nothing to sell. Feet is a true not for profit and there are not financial payouts going to the board or a central owner. Pool has offered to buy Feet more than once...

To Haterinho's original premise in this thread, the true way to change LH is to run for a board position. If enough people feel the way you do, you and people that feel like you will be elected and then change can happen from the inside. I was on the board of a local association as a commissioner and officer for seven years, I will tell you, change is a very hard thing to accomplish. Much like you see the big clubs as the soccer antichrist, the rec associations see select as the soccer antichrist. Someone is always out to get someone else. Bottom line is to LH, the big clubs equal stability. There are very few moms and dads in todays world that can give up three or four days a week and the hours involved in running a team to have longevity as a coach.

haterinho wrote:

go99 wrote:yes sting is a small player financially. A pioneer locally in the girls game but then so was defeeters.  So they may have history and quality (not here to dispute that) But as far as size and finances go they are not at the top and neither is solar.  I could see either of those being swallowed up over the next several years. Solar being the most attractive buyout and defeeters seeming to be the easiest.  Oh and while a select team may spend more, academy tends to be more profitable.  It may soccer "club" but it is a soccer "business"

Have you seen balance sheets for any of these clubs? I haven't. I do know profit and revenue are not the same thing, and since I don't have the facts - I can't say that an academy team is more profitable than a select team. I do have a rough idea of how much the academy leagues cost (or used to anyway), and I'd be surprised if that were actually the case. Select teams have more players, and they typically pay 3 times the club dues, while annual league costs are about the same (LH fees may be slightly more, but not much for academy teams that play multiple academy leagues). Unless you're not including the money coaches make in your profit equation, it's hard to see how a single academy team could be more profitable than a single select team.

Yes Liverpool makes more money on academy because they have ten thousand academy teams and few top select teams...no argument there. But that's volume revenue at the base of the pyramid, not per team profitability, and it's pretty much irrelevant to a discussion about how LH is run and who the influencers are at the TOP of the pyramid. If you've been around a while, you should be have no illusions about who the big dogs are.

I never understood how they did that, when they only have enough kids for 5000 teams. I think they are the pioneers of cpp for Academy.

1more_dd_dad wrote:

go99 wrote:yes sting is a small player financially. A pioneer locally in the girls game but then so was defeeters.  So they may have history and quality (not here to dispute that) But as far as size and finances go they are not at the top and neither is solar.  I could see either of those being swallowed up over the next several years. Solar being the most attractive buyout and defeeters seeming to be the easiest.  Oh and while a select team may spend more, academy tends to be more profitable.  It may soccer "club" but it is a soccer "business"

Feet will not be sold, there is nothing to sell.  Feet is a true not for profit and there are not financial payouts going to the board or a central owner.  Pool has offered to buy Feet more than once...

To Haterinho's original premise in this thread, the true way to change LH is to run for a board position.  If enough people feel the way you do, you and people that feel like you will be elected and then change can happen from the inside.  I was on the board of a local association as a commissioner and officer for seven years, I will tell you, change is a very hard thing to accomplish.  Much like you see the big clubs as the soccer antichrist, the rec associations see select as the soccer antichrist.  Someone is always out to get someone else.  Bottom line is to LH, the big clubs equal stability.  There are very few moms and dads in todays world that can give up three or four days a week and the hours involved in running a team to have longevity as a coach.  

For the record I don't think big clubs are the antichrist...or little clubs for that matter. I personally think CPP can be good for player development, and when used for that purpose - I'm 100% convinced it works...seen it with my own eyes for years (i.e. MAGENTA).

I think clubs, large or small, are businesses. And while businesses have to care about balance sheets, some have a more clear moral compass than others. They're like people in that respect...which is why LH should have its own values and hold true to them regardless which club businesses are currently winning
in the NTX market. Make sure your product is quality and there'll always be plenty customers (parents/coaches/clubs/etc) willing to align with those values regardless if there are competing leagues. Agree with you 100% that leagues need stability, and parent coaches skilled enough to carry teams through the top levels of select soccer are rare exceptions. I'm stepping down off the soapbox one this one...dropping the mic!

Magenta was not CPP. Plain and simple.

LOL!

Borussia wrote:Magenta was not CPP.  Plain and simple.  

Technically you're correct since CPP didn't exist and magenta was academy and not select. But the concept of multiple teams with players moving freely between rosters is why folks started calling them magenta. Originally it was NOT intended as a compliment...JM just embraced it and turned it into a positive. That's how I remember it anyway...

haterinho wrote:

Borussia wrote:Magenta was not CPP.  Plain and simple.  

Technically you're correct since CPP didn't exist and magenta was academy and not select. But the concept of multiple teams with players moving freely between rosters is why folks started calling them magenta. Originally it was NOT intended as a compliment...JM just embraced it and turned it into a positive. That's how I remember it anyway...

You have it correct, which is why you should not compare Magenta with CPP.  I think you then dirty what Magenta was/is.  

Players that played on Magenta teams then and now, more recently my Borussia teams with Kicks, signed up knowing it would be a mish mash of players, for extra touches, fun, and development.  Everyone also played equally, and moved around to different positions to learn the game of soccer.  That will develop players.

That is very different from CPP.  CPP is for the big clubs, by the big clubs,and will generally only benefit the big clubs.

I think the laughing fool thought he smelled blood in the water.  Tom should come have some wings with me and JM one day this winter.  

LOL

Might want to explain what magenta is.

Borussia wrote:Magenta was not CPP.  Plain and simple.  

Keep trying to convince yourself of that.

Can't wait to see how the Kicks marketing machine spins it when they are wearing the stripes of FCD next season in the big bad Ecnl.

Pinnochio wrote:

Borussia wrote:Magenta was not CPP.  Plain and simple.  

Keep trying to convince yourself of that.

Can't wait to see how the Kicks marketing machine spins it when they are wearing the stripes of FCD next season in the big bad Ecnl.

You and Tom are either one and the same or the Top to the others bottom.

Kicks "Magenta" is what JM calls the project teams. Thrown together with a mix of Kicks kids only, usually. My spin on Magenta was Borussia. Mix of Kicks and usually players from outside Kicks. Strictly for extra touches.

haterinho wrote:

silentparent wrote:

haterinho wrote:

silentparent wrote:"It's clear the LH customers are TEAMS, not clubs."

LMAO again, Haterinho. Tell us ,how many times has your club voted for anything that LH does? Sat in? been consulted? ....NEVER! because the CLUBS do all that. The real customers of LH...

It doesn't sound like anything I say will convince you differently from what you already know, and it appears you cannot offer any rational support for your position. I'm afraid that means we've reached an impasse and will have to agree to disagree. I know our DOC has consulted with LH leadership as recently  as last spring on numerous topics...including when the ecnl bye retention saga was playing out. I also know all you have to do is read this thread to see the vehicle by which individuals can submit proposals to LH.

follow the money, who needs who more, the clubs or LH? LH  doesnt want to let what happened to SDL happen to them. Where the big clubs form or use another league and take their teams to it. Most of LH is made up of club teams, what do you think would happen if those teams, STING, SOLAR,DALLAS TEXANS, FCD and Liverpool said we are going to form a new league because LH wont do what they want? LH goes down the tubes....

Except you're ignoring the market dynamics and probably inflating Liverpool's influence in the select space as much as go99.

All those clubs you mentioned are competing, and they're not all trending in the same directions. Sting and Texans are the incumbents.

FCD and Solar are contenders to the throne, and both have been making gains by developing and retaining players...no reason for them to necessarily follow Sting and Texans into a new league when they are already doing well in the promotion / relegation environment.

And even IF they did, what makes you think they'd include Liverpool? LOL.

They'd just as soon make the league ECNL member clubs only and poach Liverpool's top few coaches rather than give them a seat in an exclusive clubs based league. The point is, LH cannot prevent this from happening by catering to a few clubs. Why not instead focus on the quality of their product, and the best interests of the kids playing the game.

so wait first its any parent who falls for the poaching deserves what they get. Then it's active support for the poaching. How do you save LH? Well apparently you can't because nothing matters but ECNL so you are either in or you are out. And yes academy is more PROFITABLE. ECNL is not a money maker although not as big of a money drain as the boys development academy. Oh at to the Defeeters will never be sold because they have nothing is not true. They have ECNL spots that have value. And feet may be listed as a non profit just like all of the other clubs but make no mistake it is all about the money and so is the ECNL and LH.

Follow the money and you see LH is run by the bigs because they are guaranteed money and where the bigs go the indies will follow.

Borussia wrote:

Pinnochio wrote:

Borussia wrote:Magenta was not CPP.  Plain and simple.  

Keep trying to convince yourself of that.

Can't wait to see how the Kicks marketing machine spins it when they are wearing the stripes of FCD next season in the big bad Ecnl.

You and Tom are either one and the same or the Top to the others bottom.  

Kicks "Magenta" is what JM calls the project teams.  Thrown together with a mix of Kicks kids only, usually.  My spin on Magenta was Borussia.  Mix of Kicks and usually players from outside Kicks.  Strictly for extra touches.

So who teaches them to hip check so efficiently? You or Tom?