Just a request

I know some that read this may think it is a complaint or whining or whatever. However to me its a request for the safety of athletes. Having witnessed a serious concussion this weekend a rash challenge resulting in an MCL strain to a child just coming back from injury. Two requests 15 year old boys shouldn't ref 14 year old girls. Unless they can exbibit great game control. 2nd coaches myself include must continue to keep the game physical but fair and clean. Together refs and coaches can help keep the game beautiful as it has continued to desolve into an ugly mess unsafe for the kids. Full disclosure in that match the game ended in a draw would have had the same complaints win or loss. Especially when you see a girl that doesn't know her name how she got to the game or anything that happened or a girl that fought so hard to get back wondering if she can play again.

so I will chime in here. The officials here in NTX and in general the US allow way too much physical contact particularly at young ages. So what you get it kids who grow up and sincerely do now now what they are doing is a foul. It also kills the creativity and beauty of the game. I remember watching a video of a young Messi dribbling thru defenders. My son watched for a bit and then responded "that would have never worked here. The kid would have just ran him over and then took the ball" See ball skill doesn't work if the defender wasn't going for the ball.

so Refs remember the foul call isn't AGAINST the defender it is FOR the defender so that he can learn

go99 wrote:so I will chime in here.  The officials here in NTX and in general the US allow way too much physical contact particularly at young ages.  So what you get it kids who grow up and sincerely do now now what they are doing is a foul.  It also kills the creativity and beauty of the game.  I remember watching a video of a young Messi dribbling thru defenders.  My son watched for a bit and then responded "that would have never worked here. The kid would have just ran him over and then took the ball"  See ball skill doesn't work if the defender wasn't going for the ball.  

I agree, but in a system of win or get relegated and potentially lose your team and revenue, it is much easier and quicker for any coach to win now by selecting, teaching and coaching aggression and physical play.

go99 wrote:so I will chime in here.  The officials here in NTX and in general the US allow way too much physical contact particularly at young ages.  So what you get it kids who grow up and sincerely do now now what they are doing is a foul.  It also kills the creativity and beauty of the game.  I remember watching a video of a young Messi dribbling thru defenders.  My son watched for a bit and then responded "that would have never worked here. The kid would have just ran him over and then took the ball"  See ball skill doesn't work if the defender wasn't going for the ball.  

I don't know about the entire country, but I agree with you as far as the games my '03 daughter has played in throughout her "career."  My wife gets frustrated with me sometimes when I start to bark at the refs (including in basketball) and I point out that 98.6% of the time my frustration is with a lack of calls for and against my daughter's team (call it tight both ways).  

Also, I would like to see more yellow cards.

Fully agree with Tom P. I heard last year over 80 parents got tossed out of Lake Highlands games and yet only 5 yellow cards were issued. However we recently went to a tournament in Las Vegas, and the refs were much the same there.

It must be that it's just too much work for the ref or the league to keep and track player discipline. Or maybe the refs just don't know how to either get in position to see the play, or they don't delegate enough responsibility to the AR's. It really frustrates me to no end. I don't do much yelling from the sidelines (unless you are within a foot of me and hear me mutter something to my better half), but I have to believe most soccer leagues know about the overly physical play and just don't care to do anything about it. And yes, if my dd ever committed a flagellant foul, then yellow or red card her. Absolutely!

You can post until your blue in the face. This discussion has been posted many many many times in the past and will continue into the future. Best of luck, nothing is going to change!

I really wish they would film games...both league and tournaments, doesn't have to be all of them either. It could be used in a constructive way to help teach refs and also pick up on problem teams/coaches/parents. Might actually straighten people up if they know it's being filmed.

Or get the hell out of lakeHighlands, they day we left was a great day!

Not just a Lake Highlands problem.

I'm just waiting for the day I see a video drone flying over the games. Unless ATC or local law enforcement decides public parks are no fly zones.

I have not seen the criminal acts allowed in lake highlands in the division we are playing in now. Yellow cards and defending free kicks are apart of the game.

Zizou, what league?

far be it from me to defend thug play, BUT fouls are part of the game. hard tackles can sometimes end in fouls but nothing is worse than watching soft soccer...

SP, not talking about aggressive play. I support that. Not talking about soft soccer...you are right, who wants that?

I am talking about refs getting into position to see the action because they are 5-10 yards away at best, not 30. How many refs really run much past the center circle? Ever watch a French League 1? Those refs run and are always very close to the play of action. While I don't expect that, I do expect some effort and some delegation of responsibilities to the AR's to call the malicious stuff...extended hands to the back to push down, intentional elbow's to the face, stomping on the goalie or other players with intention to hurt.

I know refs are not perfect and will miss some calls, but when I see AR's watching parents, or other games I know they are not engaged.

RightWingDad wrote:I heard last year over 80 parents got tossed out of Lake Highlands games and yet only 5 yellow cards were issued

Actually several hundred cautions are issued each year and that number will grow this year

silentparent wrote:far be it from me to defend thug play, BUT fouls are part of the game. hard tackles can sometimes end in fouls but nothing is worse than watching soft soccer...

I don't expect a game without any fouls, but I would like the ref to call the fouls when they happen.  And if the "small" foul is repeated by the same player again and again I would like to see a yellow card that says enough is enough.  If it is a violent foul, I would like to see a yellow card on the first offense of the game so the girls know that certain conduct is not allowed.  Nothing is worse then seeing a game get out of hand because the ref has enabled the girls because he doesn't have the stones to take control of the game.

Rookie wrote:

Actually several hundred cautions are issued each year and that number will grow this year

Repeat offenders getting multiple cautions is meaningless discipline. What they need is a yellow or red card if warranted. In life, there are consequences. Unfortunately our culture and society tries very hard to eradicate any consequence...because everyone wants to do what is right in their OWN eyes.

So really all you (and us) are asking for is for them to call games the way the rules are written. I don't understand the thought process that "I can't give a yellow card to a 8 year old" or "I can't send off a 12 year old."

The rules clearly state what offenses are worthy or a yellow and what offenses are worthy of a red. There should be no reason that these change based on age. A hand ball is a hand ball no matter what age, a corner kick is a corner kick no matter what age, why are disciplinary actions any different?

3-2-1 (starting the countdown until we get a sanctimonious referee post saying "if you can do it better go get your license").

But seriously, our BB was in a tournament game this weekend in which a potted plant would have made the same number of foul calls as our CR. And we're admittedly a physical team, as was the other team.

There are plenty of teams that teach the last defender to foul or do whatever is necessary to stop the breakaway. A free kick from 30 or 40 yards is a lot better than a 1v1 with the keeper. But I have NEVER seen the clear goal scoring oppotrunity card given at U10 or below -- not even a yellow for pretty blatant tackles from behind.

Taking the overly physical stuff out of the game would turn a wrestling match into a technical soccer match (or at least make it more likely). Kind of like futsal when called correctly.

The laws of the game are always left to referees discretion. I also wouldn't have it any other way. I'd be curious on what the stat is for yellow cards per match in leagues around north Texas. Versus warnings to parents for conversations or disagreements between refs and fans and coaches. The parents, refs should basically ignore. Explanation and communication of understanding should be able to take place between coach, player and ref without believing it is a personal attack on the ref. (I know sometimes it is but not all the time) Again and I think the board is fine with physical play just be sure to draw the line and brandish a card early before the game gets out of hands. (And be consistent with it or that creates another issue that drives folks crazy) I know this topic is old and tired but calling it a little tighter consistently would cause folks to have to adjust their game from running over folks and reduce the number of "ooohs and awwsss" we here every weekend. It starts with coaches, then with refs. Parents are somewhere on the list as well because a child can fall down, and be hit with a strong tackle and that is not necessarily a foul. Oh well martial arts season ( I mean league play) begins this week. Here’s to hoping that fouls reduce to a manageable amount and finding some folks to control the game. Let's see if I am venting this weekend. Heck with 4 league games in 10 days, I have to have something to complain about. (Maybe 4 league games in 10 days to start))

RightWingDad wrote:Zizou, what league?

ECNL, cards are all posted along with goals assist and win loss records on the website.

Zizou wrote:

RightWingDad wrote:Zizou, what league?

ECNL, cards are all posted along with goals assist and win loss records on the website.

To be sure, these stats are posted by the team managers, not the league.  Some teams post things very carefully, some not so much so.

On average, I'd agree that the refereeing is a step up from LHGCL, but most of the same problems exist in ECNL as in all leagues, or at least they did when mine graduated.  

We had thuggy players, crappy parents (although it seemed not as many), and the occasional really crappy referee.  We played a number of ECNL teams whose entire style was to beat you to a pulp physically.  That isn't just a North Texas tactic.  Some refs allowed it some ratcheted down.

I'm all for more cards as i see coaches increasingly use large girls to smash through smaller ones in an attempt to pry the ball free. not even aggressive play just poor skill, and fouling. its ugly to watch

There's legal physical play...and there's illegal physical play.  The size of the girl, or how hard she falls, is not a factor.  A HARD shoulder charge playing the ball is perfectly legal.  A push in the back in retaliation is not legal.  BTW, to parents with non-athletic small DD's with lots of "skill" (sarcasm); tackling, slide-tackling and shoulder charging are skills. I'm tired of hearing, "If my ultra-skillful daughter would stop getting fouled (tackled/knocked off ball) she would be unstoppable".