Just a request

There's legal physical play...and there's illegal physical play.  The size of the girl, or how hard she falls, is not a factor.  A HARD shoulder charge playing the ball is perfectly legal.  A push in the back in retaliation is not legal.  BTW, to parents with non-athletic small DD's with lots of "skill" (sarcasm); tackling, slide-tackling and shoulder charging are skills. I'm tired of hearing, "If my ultra-skillful daughter would stop getting fouled (tackled/knocked off ball) she would be unstoppable".

That's funny...So your kid is the big unskilled non athletic kid that can kick the ball long way, after she shoves that small kid out of the way.

People see what they want to see, especially when it comes to their kid/team.

In our recent Classic league game, our player got the ball stolen from him, and in retaliation, grabbed the jersey of the other player from behind, with both hands, and pulled him down. Foul called, free kick awarded. Father was upset because he has a "right to try and win back the ball." Ridiculous. Should have been a yellow card.

GO999 wrote:That's funny...So your kid is the big unskilled non athletic kid that can kick the ball long way, after she shoves that small kid out of the way.

GO999, I was a little worked up from a recent parent conversation. Sorry if my comment was offensive. My point is, physical play IS a skill. It seems parents, kids, referees and coaches have a difficult time understanding, teaching and implementing. FIFA LOTG clearly state the characteristics of a legal shoulder charge. Soccer is a contact sport. Smaller players are not entitled to additional protection. However, most injuries are not occurring due to legal contact. See previous poster on retaliation.

Don't believe him.

She is a big, slow, pushing hoss.

Saw it with my own eyes.

Just because your daughter out-weighs everyone on the field by 20 pounds, doesn't give her a free pass to run (albeit slowly) hog wild around the field shoving people off the ball without a penalty - merely because she is "big" and "used her shoulder".  

It helps if she actually goes after the ball . . . and has a chance of getting it.

DANG!!!!!

BrianWilliams wrote:Don't believe him.

She is a big, slow, pushing hoss.  

Saw it with my own eyes.

Good to see Brian landed somewhere.....covering NTX Soccer.

soccerjack wrote:

BrianWilliams wrote:Don't believe him.

She is a big, slow, pushing hoss.  

Saw it with my own eyes.

Good to see Brian landed somewhere.....covering NTX Soccer.  

Yep, and still telling the truth!

A defender's parent's perception of a legal shoulder charge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNxXL-soLIk

But seriously, I came across this a while back and it addresses some of the issues: http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/?p=2667

The key issue seems to be excessive force. A player can ride someone of the ball with a shoulder, but they can't line them up from ten yards away like a middle linebacker targeting a slot receiver on a crossing route. On the other hand, it's not a foul everytime a bigger kid bumps a smaller kid off the ball.

rzrFC wrote:

GO999 wrote:That's funny...So your kid is the big unskilled non athletic kid that can kick the ball long way, after she shoves that small kid out of the way.

GO999, I was a little worked up from a recent parent conversation.  Sorry if my comment was offensive.  My point is, physical play IS a skill.  It seems parents, kids, referees and coaches have a difficult time understanding, teaching and implementing.  FIFA LOTG clearly state the characteristics of a legal shoulder charge.  Soccer is a contact sport.  Smaller players are not entitled to additional protection.  However, most injuries are not occurring due to legal contact.  See previous poster on retaliation.

I could not agree more on this topic.  Boys that age, in general, probably won't be paying attention to the game as much as the players. Age isn't as much the issue as just suitability and common sense. 15 year old boys can ref boy games and 15 year old girls can ref girl games.

Marv has a great point. There are too many unnecessary injuries happening out there and I feel it is a result of poor refereeing in general. My 13 year old daughter is planning to get her referees license this year and she will be able to officiate up to U16 competitive games.  Her motivation is twofold.  She wants to clean up the game and she wants to work doing something she enjoys.  I'll support that over working in an ice cream parlor any day of the week and I realize I will need to show her how to lead respectfully and how to not get intimidated by some of the parents who go too far.  Last week she was in a tournament and the matches between the teams were such a mismatch that the superior teams figured out who they could double up and essentially give "the Malachi crunch" to.  In another game, a dirty player kicked her in the ankle well after she had passed the ball.  The moron ref, standing right there, invited the thug to "sub out".  Sub out?!?!  For real?  That ref was about 40 and it was probably the same ref that said "I don't give out cards in tournaments".  

The spring of last year, in a game at Carpenter Park where we were winning 1-0, the opposing player after getting outplayed by one of our players, took a throw-in, dropped the ball right at the feet of our player to get her attention in the meantime, the opposing player trucked our player, full speed, elbows up, neck level.  The imbecile ref, who was in his 30's, went over to our player, said "that's what you get for pushing" and called for the game to continue.  No card.  When the moron realized our player was knocked unconscious, he requested that[i] she be moved off the field like a sack of potatoes!  The girl was down for 15 minutes and sustained multiple injuries.  Parents from the other team applauded...savages!  Later in the game during a corner kick by the other team, the same thug from other team decked our goalie.  Again, no call.  On the player with multiple injuries letters were written to PPL and NTX by: Coach, assistant coach, manager, mother and independent concerned parent.  Video of the play was submitted.  NO ACTION TAKEN!!!  Nobody Cares to try to keep the game safe and fair!  It's that simple.

This game has gotten too popular and there is simply more demand for refs than supply.  Anyone who applies is apparently awarded a referee license with an application.  There is no quality assurance afterwards.  I fully support a young player officiating and would encourage NTX to recruit, train and schedule these young referees appropriately (to their own gender until they are 18) and take out the garbage with the refs who are just there to collect a check.

MoveYourFeet wrote:People see what they want to see, especially when it comes to their kid/team.

In our recent Classic league game, our player got the ball stolen from him, and in retaliation, grabbed the jersey of the other player from behind, with both hands, and pulled him down. Foul called, free kick awarded. Father was upset because he has a "right to try and win back the ball." Ridiculous. Should have been a yellow card.

I coach my players to immediately retaliate on the player who does this to them. It makes that cheating player think twice about grabbing my players jersey again. It also gives him/her the opportunity to tell the ref what happened, once a foul or card is presented to the player fouled. Since the refs are unlikely to card, then it is up to the player to make sure that cheat knows he/she can't get away with it on him/her again.

I agree with a lot of the thinking on the board. However, I have seen any number of big, non-athletic "skilled" girls get knocked off the ball and/or outrun by smaller players. Rzr, I have to assume by your "sarcasm" that you have a Big daughter. As I tell my DD, size isn't important unless you make it so. Of course tackling is part of the game, so is outthinking and outrunning an opponent. If the small player with lots of skill isn't scared, even being fouled won't stop her. I have seen just as many "Big" girls  scared of taking a foul and therefore is afraid to do anything to draw a foul as I have of smaller players who are afraid to get tackled. Tall and muscular girls sometimes have a hard time growing into their own bodies and can have awkward gaits and speed. A hard shoulder push that is part of an effort to gain control of the ball isn't illegal. However, an intentional slam against a player in an effort to knock her down becomes questionable.

The issue here is whether or not a coach, player, parent knows the difference between out besting a team and beating up a team. Mental toughness, agility, and game knowledge are much better talents than height and weight would be. Kind of reminds me of my cousin. She was very pretty and was able to get by in school because of it. Teachers were mesmerized by her face. Then when she was a sophomore in college she got chicken pox. She wound up with very bad scarring on her face, arms and neck. It changed things for her. Her grades started slipping and she finally had to start actually studying. Just like being dependent on good looks, if a player depends on their size to be a "good" player instead of developing skills and game knowledge, as time goes on, they will falter. Just as would a player who only leans on speed to carry them through or even trick throw ins, whatever.

Soccer is not a one-dimensional game, it requires a player to be multi-faceted. No one skill or ability makes a player good. (Stepping back from the soap box now.)  

InaB wrote:I agree with a lot of the thinking on the board. However, I have seen any number of big, non-athletic "skilled" girls get knocked off the ball and/or outrun by smaller players. Rzr, I have to assume by your "sarcasm" that you have a Big daughter. As I tell my DD, size isn't important unless you make it so. Of course tackling is part of the game, so is outthinking and outrunning an opponent. If the small player with lots of skill isn't scared, even being fouled won't stop her. I have seen just as many "Big" girls  scared of taking a foul and therefore is afraid to do anything to draw a foul as I have of smaller players who are afraid to get tackled. Tall and muscular girls sometimes have a hard time growing into their own bodies and can have awkward gaits and speed. A hard shoulder push that is part of an effort to gain control of the ball isn't illegal. However, an intentional slam against a player in an effort to knock her down becomes questionable.

The issue here is whether or not a coach, player, parent knows the difference between out besting a team and beating up a team. Mental toughness, agility, and game knowledge are much better talents than height and weight would be. Kind of reminds me of my cousin. She was very pretty and was able to get by in school because of it. Teachers were mesmerized by her face. Then when she was a sophomore in college she got chicken pox. She wound up with very bad scarring on her face, arms and neck. It changed things for her. Her grades started slipping and she finally had to start actually studying. Just like being dependent on good looks, if a player depends on their size to be a "good" player instead of developing skills and game knowledge, as time goes on, they will falter. Just as would a player who only leans on speed to carry them through or even trick throw ins, whatever.

Soccer is not a one-dimensional game, it requires a player to be multi-faceted. No one skill or ability makes a player good. (Stepping back from the soap box now.)  

First class response InaB.

Most of the responses to date have been first class. It's been a good read. Where do the leagues go from here? Only time will tell. We need more refs as more folks continue to play the game. It's not easy being a ref, Parents, Kids, Coaches Players all looking for your every mistake to use you as a scapegoat. I guess the thing is this. Everyday should be about making improvements. That's what we look for in players, that's what we look for as human beings. I assume that's what we also look for in those that control the beautiful game. (Refs' Coaches, and Administrators) Refs hold your ground but be open for critiques and ways to be better. Nobody is perfect and soccer is not a perfect game.

Now if we had instant replay, replay officials and goal line technology at all our league games, just think how we'd advance the game here in North Texas. And...think of all the jobs's we add to bolster the economy.

Wonder who could sponsor all that? Hello Toyota....

""That's funny...So your kid is the big unskilled non athletic kid that can kick the ball long way, after she shoves that small kid out of the way""

sadly this is true and her parents will say way to go suzy! good kick! as the ball is kicked mindlessly down the field. Watching girls soccer is a push fest of large girls hip checking and elbowing and blasting the ball. its ugly soccer and needs to change.

SP, when you find the Scott Sterling jersey's let me know. Who wouldn't want one of those?

can't wait to see him in the world cup.....

Had no idea he was playing in the Women's World Cup...not that there is anything wrong with that...of course.

Scott's play in the Women's World Cup wouldn't be so noticeable but the blonde wig with the black stubble was a bit obvious. Most people thought (s)he was a 1970s Russian player brought out of retirement.

FYI Fierce, I have found that if the girl who has a jersey grab pulled on her, turns around really fast and screams at the top of her lungs "Let go of my jersey" and then immediately drops to the ground rolling and moaning and grabs her nose, can usually get a defender off of her.

This appears to be a great training program!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ukFUEI5qz8

Or maybe (s)he was more like...

http://hookedonhouses.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Miss-Trunchbull-Pam-Ferris-Matilda-Crunchem-Hall.jpg

You could be right, Right!

InaB wrote:FYI Fierce, I have found that if the girl who has a jersey grab pulled on her, turns around really fast and screams at the top of her lungs "Let go of my jersey" and then immediately drops to the ground rolling and moaning and grabs her nose, can usually get a defender off of her.

This appears to be a great training program!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ukFUEI5qz8

Funny and pathetic at the same time.....

I actually have my players shove them and basically heavy verbally tell them to stop, no flopping. I don't care if they get a foul or carded, I back them 100%. I had one kid deck the player who wouldn't stop cheating.

It seems like we keep having the same conversations. A lot of really good points have been made here, a few more than once. If this is ever going to change, it's going to change because parents demand it changes. Coaches, parents, and league officials, all working together, can impact change.

Whether or not they really want change, at least enough to do the work necessary, is the question.

Hi Banana, you are right that we all have to help the system change. It is good to be able to voice opinions, but we need to do more than that. Petitions would be a good place to start. Then someone has to take that forward and form a group of parents, coaches, league officials, and refs to look at the rules of play and determine better rules (that are explained in plain terms and are enforced). The difficulty is that bad play is talked about, but it still goes on. Apathy is the biggest issue of all here.

You can't be afraid to tackle it. You can't be afraid to rock a boat. However, you don't want to go in anger because emotions won't make positive change happen. You go in with logic and some proposed solutions. As a boss once wisely told me, if you bring me a problem, you had better bring me ways to solve it as well.