Cold rainy games

If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game? I'd like to know how people feel about this. What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played? Should that game still be played?

optimist wrote:If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game?  I'd like to know how people feel about this.  What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played?  Should that game still be played?  

first you don't have to make 12-13 year olds play in the rain even when it's cold. secondly the "Parents and coaches" you speak of should have the children play volleyball to avoid the elements. just a dad's two cents

optimist wrote:If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game?  I'd like to know how people feel about this.  What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played?  Should that game still be played?  

I agree that there IS a point at which playing a game is foolish. Even dangerous. If BOTH COACHES agree that the situation has gotten to that point, then what is their recourse? Can they collectively pull their teams from the field without being sanctioned? I doubt it. More often than not, decisions like this are often dictated by the old cliche "in the opinion of the referee", and the truth is (as we've all seen time and time again) these officials seldom seem to have the welfare of the players in mind when they are out there. How else can one explain the lack of cards handed out for egregious penalties? So my guess is the ultimate determination would be made by the parents. If enough parents truly feel their daughters are in an unsafe situation and they respond by telling them to grab their stuff and go, then the game ends. And if the league responds with sanctions in that scenario, they are simply begging for 10 o'clock local news coverage.

40º is more uncomfortable for parents and coaches than it is for the kids who are out on the field moving around and generating heat. I see kids everyday who won't keep their jackets on in 40º temps because they're overheating. Base layer tops, leggings, warmup pants, jackets, gloves and ear protection allows play in conditions that adults have forgotten is great weather for soccer. Illness is caused by germs and viruses, not environmental temperature. We're babying these kids too much as we try to be good parents and protect them. They're having a blast as long as they keep their hands and ears warm.

CBTeamworks wrote:40º is more uncomfortable for parents and coaches than it is for the kids who are out on the field moving around and generating heat. I see kids everyday who won't keep their jackets on in 40º temps because they're overheating. Base layer tops, leggings, warmup pants, jackets, gloves and ear protection allows play in conditions that adults have forgotten is great weather for soccer. Illness is caused by germs and viruses, not environmental temperature. We're babying these kids too much as we try to be good parents and protect them. They're having a blast as long as they keep their hands and ears warm.

I take it , you weren't out there today. 40° with wind and rain was not comfortable for anyone.
The games should've been cancelled today.

turftoe9 wrote:

CBTeamworks wrote:40º is more uncomfortable for parents and coaches than it is for the kids who are out on the field moving around and generating heat. I see kids everyday who won't keep their jackets on in 40º temps because they're overheating. Base layer tops, leggings, warmup pants, jackets, gloves and ear protection allows play in conditions that adults have forgotten is great weather for soccer. Illness is caused by germs and viruses, not environmental temperature. We're babying these kids too much as we try to be good parents and protect them. They're having a blast as long as they keep their hands and ears warm.

I take it , you weren't out there today. 40° with wind and rain was not comfortable for anyone.
The games should've been cancelled today.

The only time games in those conditions will be cancelled is in order to protect the fields. No I was not out there today but we've played in conditions much worse and you're right that it's no fun (for the parents more than the kids).

Valjoux13 wrote:

optimist wrote:If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game?  I'd like to know how people feel about this.  What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played?  Should that game still be played?  

I agree that there IS a point at which playing a game is foolish.  Even dangerous.  If BOTH COACHES agree that the situation has gotten to that point, then what is their recourse?  Can they collectively pull their teams from the field without being sanctioned?  I doubt it.  More often than not, decisions like this are often dictated by the old cliche "in the opinion of the referee", and the truth is (as we've all seen time and time again) these officials seldom seem to have the welfare of the players in mind when they are out there.  How else can one explain the lack of cards handed out for egregious penalties?  So my guess is the ultimate determination would be made by the parents.  If enough parents truly feel their daughters are in an unsafe situation and they respond by telling them to grab their stuff and go, then the game ends.  And if the league responds with sanctions in that scenario, they are simply begging for 10 o'clock local news coverage.

This is a COMPLETELY ignorant statement. Do you actually think referees can make the decisions on whether or not games are played due to non-threatening weather conditions in these leagues? In fact, it is usually the referees who are getting the short end on days like these, because we could end up driving 30mins or more expecting to referee, just to be turned away when we get there. I can't tell you how often "hotlines" and "field status" updates have not worked. This just makes us LOSE money.

Also, I have been huddled in a small ref shack on days like these, but with tons of lightning and the fields wouldn't let us leave because the BROKEN "lightning detector" wasn't going off even though any moron could see that it was a tsunami.

Coach&Ref wrote:

Valjoux13 wrote:

optimist wrote:If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game?  I'd like to know how people feel about this.  What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played?  Should that game still be played?  

I agree that there IS a point at which playing a game is foolish.  Even dangerous.  If BOTH COACHES agree that the situation has gotten to that point, then what is their recourse?  Can they collectively pull their teams from the field without being sanctioned?  I doubt it.  More often than not, decisions like this are often dictated by the old cliche "in the opinion of the referee", and the truth is (as we've all seen time and time again) these officials seldom seem to have the welfare of the players in mind when they are out there.  How else can one explain the lack of cards handed out for egregious penalties?  So my guess is the ultimate determination would be made by the parents.  If enough parents truly feel their daughters are in an unsafe situation and they respond by telling them to grab their stuff and go, then the game ends.  And if the league responds with sanctions in that scenario, they are simply begging for 10 o'clock local news coverage.

This is a COMPLETELY ignorant statement. Do you actually think referees can make the decisions on whether or not games are played due to non-threatening weather conditions in these leagues? In fact, it is usually the referees who are getting the short end on days like these, because we could end up driving 30mins or more expecting to referee, just to be turned away when we get there. I can't tell you how often "hotlines" and "field status" updates have not worked. This just makes us LOSE money.

Also, I have been huddled in a small ref shack on days like these, but with tons of lightning and the fields wouldn't let us leave because the BROKEN "lightning detector" wasn't going off even though any moron could see that it was a tsunami.

Yes, I do think a ref can end a game due to "non-threatening" (your definition) weather conditions. And the USSF agrees with me as they refer to the situations as "bad" weather (their definition). But I would not expect someone proclaiming to be a coach and "ref" to know the laws which govern them. That would be ignorant, right:

Question:
On what grounds can a referee stop and abandon a soccer match?

USSF answer (March 31, 2010):

"The referee may terminate a match for reasons of non-physical safety (bad weather or darkness), for any serious infringement of the Laws, or because of interference by spectators."

Valjoux13 wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

Valjoux13 wrote:

optimist wrote:If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game?  I'd like to know how people feel about this.  What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played?  Should that game still be played?  

I agree that there IS a point at which playing a game is foolish.  Even dangerous.  If BOTH COACHES agree that the situation has gotten to that point, then what is their recourse?  Can they collectively pull their teams from the field without being sanctioned?  I doubt it.  More often than not, decisions like this are often dictated by the old cliche "in the opinion of the referee", and the truth is (as we've all seen time and time again) these officials seldom seem to have the welfare of the players in mind when they are out there.  How else can one explain the lack of cards handed out for egregious penalties?  So my guess is the ultimate determination would be made by the parents.  If enough parents truly feel their daughters are in an unsafe situation and they respond by telling them to grab their stuff and go, then the game ends.  And if the league responds with sanctions in that scenario, they are simply begging for 10 o'clock local news coverage.

This is a COMPLETELY ignorant statement. Do you actually think referees can make the decisions on whether or not games are played due to non-threatening weather conditions in these leagues? In fact, it is usually the referees who are getting the short end on days like these, because we could end up driving 30mins or more expecting to referee, just to be turned away when we get there. I can't tell you how often "hotlines" and "field status" updates have not worked. This just makes us LOSE money.

Also, I have been huddled in a small ref shack on days like these, but with tons of lightning and the fields wouldn't let us leave because the BROKEN "lightning detector" wasn't going off even though any moron could see that it was a tsunami.

Yes, I do think a ref can end a game due to "non-threatening" (your definition) weather conditions.  And the USSF agrees with me as they refer to the situations as "bad" weather (their definition).  But I would not expect someone proclaiming to be a coach and "ref" to know the laws which govern them.  That would be ignorant, right:

Question:
On what grounds can a referee stop and abandon a soccer match?

USSF answer (March 31, 2010):

"The referee may terminate a match for reasons of non-physical safety (bad weather or darkness), for any serious infringement of the Laws, or because of interference by spectators."

Before you say anything more stupid, read the ENTIRE sentence.......

optimist wrote:If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game?  I'd like to know how people feel about this.  What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played?  Should that game still be played?  

It's cold and raining so the game gets called off...parents on the board bitching about the game getting called.
It's cold and raining and the game plays on...parents on the board bitching about the games not getting called off.

Just wait for high school soccer. You'll love it.

MoveYourFeet wrote:

Just wait for high school soccer. You'll love it.

LOL...have sat on an inch of ice and watched a game played while below 30 and sleeting.....more than once! If the buses can get there, they play!

Coach&Ref wrote:

Valjoux13 wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

Valjoux13 wrote:

optimist wrote:If it's 41 degrees, dark/cloudy, windy, and pouring down rain, should 12-13 year olds be forced to play a soccer game?  I'd like to know how people feel about this.  What if all the parents of these children, and both coaches all agree that the game should not be played?  Should that game still be played?  

I agree that there IS a point at which playing a game is foolish.  Even dangerous.  If BOTH COACHES agree that the situation has gotten to that point, then what is their recourse?  Can they collectively pull their teams from the field without being sanctioned?  I doubt it.  More often than not, decisions like this are often dictated by the old cliche "in the opinion of the referee", and the truth is (as we've all seen time and time again) these officials seldom seem to have the welfare of the players in mind when they are out there.  How else can one explain the lack of cards handed out for egregious penalties?  So my guess is the ultimate determination would be made by the parents.  If enough parents truly feel their daughters are in an unsafe situation and they respond by telling them to grab their stuff and go, then the game ends.  And if the league responds with sanctions in that scenario, they are simply begging for 10 o'clock local news coverage.

This is a COMPLETELY ignorant statement. Do you actually think referees can make the decisions on whether or not games are played due to non-threatening weather conditions in these leagues? In fact, it is usually the referees who are getting the short end on days like these, because we could end up driving 30mins or more expecting to referee, just to be turned away when we get there. I can't tell you how often "hotlines" and "field status" updates have not worked. This just makes us LOSE money.

Also, I have been huddled in a small ref shack on days like these, but with tons of lightning and the fields wouldn't let us leave because the BROKEN "lightning detector" wasn't going off even though any moron could see that it was a tsunami.

Yes, I do think a ref can end a game due to "non-threatening" (your definition) weather conditions.  And the USSF agrees with me as they refer to the situations as "bad" weather (their definition).  But I would not expect someone proclaiming to be a coach and "ref" to know the laws which govern them.  That would be ignorant, right:

Question:
On what grounds can a referee stop and abandon a soccer match?

USSF answer (March 31, 2010):

"The referee may terminate a match for reasons of non-physical safety (bad weather or darkness), for any serious infringement of the Laws, or because of interference by spectators."

Before you say anything more stupid, read the ENTIRE sentence.......

And since you've already said too much that is stupid, you should realize that the USSF response was in regard to a clarification of the Laws of the Game which transcends the bureaucracy of local, know-nothing youth soccer leagues.  If you want more information, check out the AYSO's advice to referee's on the same subject.  But I doubt any grown adult stupid enough to be "huddled in a small ref shack on days like these, but with tons of lightning and the fields (and the league) wouldn't let us leave because the BROKEN "lightning detector" wasn't going off even though any moron could see that it was a tsunami" is going to score high on a Mensa test.  You sound like the typical soccer ref sheep.  Don't use your own common sense - even if it is clear you and all of the players are at risk.  Just be a fool and huddle in the shack while lightning is going off all around you.  It's Darwin's Law at its best.

Grow some balls and make smart decisions even when others tell you no.  Hand out a card or two from time to time.  Do your job and take on some responsibility for the welfare of the players.  What a concept.

jogobonito07 wrote:

MoveYourFeet wrote:

Just wait for high school soccer. You'll love it.

LOL...have sat on an inch of ice and watched a game played while below 30 and sleeting.....more than once!  If the buses can get there, they play!

We had a cold, windy, rainy game last year. The parents genius thought was to get up high in the stands and put our back to the press box to block the wind. It helped, until the rain turned to sleet, then to ice. We were basically all stranded up there at the end of the game. The steps and handrails were completely iced over. Took a long time to get down. A few parents made it down quickly as they fell and slid on their rears all the way down. No serious injuries though.

And since you've already said too much that is stupid, you should realize that the USSF response was in regard to a clarification of the Laws of the Game which transcends the bureaucracy of local, know-nothing youth soccer leagues.  If you want more information, check out the AYSO's advice to referee's on the same subject.  But I doubt any grown adult stupid enough to be "huddled in a small ref shack on days like these, but with tons of lightning and the fields (and the league) wouldn't let us leave because the BROKEN "lightning detector" wasn't going off even though any moron could see that it was a tsunami" is going to score high on a Mensa test.  You sound like the typical soccer ref sheep.  Don't use your own common sense - even if it is clear you and all of the players are at risk.  Just be a fool and huddle in the shack while lightning is going off all around you.  It's Darwin's Law at its best.

Grow some balls and make smart decisions even when others tell you no.  Hand out a card or two from time to time.  Do your job and take on some responsibility for the welfare of the players.  What a concept.

Here's a thought....

Since you know the LOTG so well, then why not try reffing instead of stereotyping the entire profession and bitching about them.

Once you become a ref, you can hand out as many cards as you would like. Good luck with that one, since that is one of the quickest ways to completely lose control of a game. Plus you can abandon matches whenever you think it might be too hot, cold, light or dark; basically any weather conditions where you just don't like being outside that day. Remember, if you get any flack, you can just fall back on the old saying, "In the opinion of the referee!"

Coach&Ref, I'm curious about one of your assertions. You suggest that handing out cards, I assume even when it is appropriate to do so, "is the quickest way to completely lose control of a game."  Why is that?

banana kick wrote:Coach&Ref, I'm curious about one of your assertions. You suggest that handing out cards, I assume even when it is appropriate to do so, "is the quickest way to completely lose control of a game."  Why is that?

Glad you asked, banana.

There are two ways for a ref to quickly lose control of a game: Handing out no cards and handing out too many.

We all know what can happen in the first scenario, especially if the ref does not have a strong personality.

The second involves handing out so many that it make tensions escalate and both ejections and fights can easily break out, especially due to both the players and coaches thinking that one offense is cardable and another shouldn't be.

I have had quite a few refs throughout the years take the stance that they need to give out a card for the first infraction (whether it should really warrant it or not), just to "set the tone" for what he expects for the remainder of the game. However, if he does this, then he must be consistent with each foul. This method has backfired quite a few times for refs who take this heavy stance.

Examples of this can even be seen in pro soccer if you watch any of the EPL, La Liga, or any of the others. You can even hear the commentators comment of how many cards the ref has given out over a season, his style, etc. You may have also seen instances where refs have gone card crazy and it has not had the desired effect, but exacerbated the already high tensions.

The best thing to do is just learn what situations really require cards and which do not. However, the main thing that should always be taken into account is consistency. Either be consistently good or consistently bad. Any other way causes more problems that not.

Coach&Ref wrote:

banana kick wrote:Coach&Ref, I'm curious about one of your assertions. You suggest that handing out cards, I assume even when it is appropriate to do so, "is the quickest way to completely lose control of a game."  Why is that?

Glad you asked, banana.

There are two ways for a ref to quickly lose control of a game: Handing out no cards and handing out too many.

We all know what can happen in the first scenario, especially if the ref does not have a strong personality.

The second involves handing out so many that it make tensions escalate and both ejections and fights can easily break out, especially due to both the players and coaches thinking that one offense is cardable and another shouldn't be.

I have had quite a few refs throughout the years take the stance that they need to give out a card for the first infraction (whether it should really warrant it or not), just to "set the tone" for what he expects for the remainder of the game. However, if he does this, then he must be consistent with each foul. This method has backfired quite a few times for refs who take this heavy stance.

Examples of this can even be seen in pro soccer if you watch any of the EPL, La Liga, or any of the others. You can even hear the commentators comment of how many cards the ref has given out over a season, his style, etc. You may have also seen instances where refs have gone card crazy and it has not had the desired effect, but exacerbated the already high tensions.

The best thing to do is just learn what situations really require cards and which do not. However, the main thing that should always be taken into account is consistency. Either be consistently good or consistently bad. Any other way causes more problems that not.

If it's cardable pull the freakin card!!!

The coldest temps I remember playing in was the 2014 Michael Brown tournament at FC Dallas in Jan. 2014. Temp was 26ºF (windchill of 15ºF) with winds blowing 14-24 mph. No rain but it was too cold to be out there. Kids (10 year old girls) were dressed appropriately but there was no way to keep feet warm and kids were crying in the car on the way home as their feet warmed back up.

Teams had paid their money. Tournament director wanted to get the games in so as not to impact the tournament. It was a conscious decision to play the games as the day started out at 37º at 7AM, 30º at noon, etc... Probably should be some standard but I don't know where it would be. http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KADS/2014/1/23/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Frisco&req_state=TX&req_statename=Texas&reqdb.zip=75033&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999&MR=1

Brief break from the dog pile on C&R.

According to the bylaws, these people can stop a game after it has begun. Note, Coaches and parents aren't on the list. I thought yesterday's games were bitter and miserable, we played at 11:00am in the worst of it, but I didn't think it was dangerous. Our field held up fine and I didn't see slipping and sliding at all. There is no arguing that it wasn't cold though. The cold wasn't the problem, it was the rain. We have the gear for staying warm, but once they were soaking wet, it was really miserable, and mental toughness came into play. The girl my daughter was marking flat out said, "I don't care who wins, I just want to go home." I know some people are going to say that conditions like that are dangerous, I just don't feel that they are. Really uncomfortable, absolutely!!! I feel it's far more dangerous to be playing in the July and August heat. Had the girls been slipping and sliding, I'd like it stopped, but that wasn't the case on our field.

Here's who can stop a game after it has started.

2. The referees, a member of the LHGCL Executive Board, LHSA (Moss Park only), or an official of GLASA (GLASA venues only) may cancel games at the field of play.
In the event of inclement weather during play, the LHGCL officials on site or the referee (if no LHGCL official is present) will determine if games are to be suspended. If games are suspended, teams and spectators must seek safe shelter in their cars. Failure to leave the soccer fields as directed by a LHGCL official or referee will result in an immediate dismissal from the game for the offending person(s). DO NOT leave the complex until you have been informed by a LHGCL official or referee that the games will not be resumed.

OLJW wrote:Brief break from the dog pile on C&R.

According to the bylaws, these people can stop a game after it has begun. Note, Coaches and parents aren't on the list. I thought yesterday's games were bitter and miserable, we played at 11:00am in the worst of it, but I didn't think it was dangerous. Our field held up fine and I didn't see slipping and sliding at all. There is no arguing that it wasn't cold though. The cold wasn't the problem, it was the rain. We have the gear for staying warm, but once they were soaking wet, it was really miserable, and mental toughness came into play. The girl my daughter was marking flat out said, "I don't care who wins, I just want to go home." I know some people are going to say that conditions like that are dangerous, I just don't feel that they are. Really uncomfortable, absolutely!!! I feel it's far more dangerous to be playing in the July and August heat. Had the girls been slipping and sliding, I'd like it stopped, but that wasn't the case on our field.

Here's who can stop a game after it has started.

2. The referees, a member of the LHGCL Executive Board, LHSA (Moss Park only), or an official of GLASA (GLASA venues only) may cancel games at the field of play.
In the event of inclement weather during play, the LHGCL officials on site or the referee (if no LHGCL official is present) will determine if games are to be suspended. If games are suspended, teams and spectators must seek safe shelter in their cars. Failure to leave the soccer fields as directed by a LHGCL official or referee will result in an immediate dismissal from the game for the offending person(s). DO NOT leave the complex until you have been informed by a LHGCL official or referee that the games will not be resumed.

I know of only 1 game that was canceled yesterday. UTD field #4 at 11am was called by the referee at halftime. So that game now has to be replayed in its entirety. Not sure if it was the referees decision or league officials but the other games were played to completion.

Were there any other cancellations yesterday?

It seems that sometimes leagues/tournaments care more about their fields getting torn up than anything else.

Anyway, tomorrow's games are probably going to be just as miserable.

Solar U14 ECNL game was called short yesterday.  Second half ended in 30 mins.  I assume both coaches agreed.