FBR '06 AP Coming soon..

I've been around too long to know that exchanging posts with coaches on forums is not a good a idea. No disrespect intended...just the opposite...nothing but respect.

FBR AP 06, you have read my POV, fine either way. Peace

SkeetsG06 wrote:

FBR06AP wrote:A non-ntx squd recorded in FBR counts in the calculations, but is excluded from the rankings that are published.  

So it does impact a team's standing in the Ranking, but that ghost team is not rewarded for anything.  Similar to the Socal teams that played at Super Copa.  They would be placed in the Non-NTX tiers, games recorded, would impact local squads positively and negatively, but not included in the published rankings.

I think that loophole discredits the FBR b/c it encourages teams to create mixed teams as there is no downside but it can hurt other teams.

A simple adjustment that in addition to Non-NTX squads, Mixed NTX squads will not count in FBR AND calculations of their opponents.

Just let me know if this is not going to change and I can stop tennis-posting you. :-)

Maybe one FBR 06AP does it one way and the other FBR 06G AP does it the other.  Either way is fine.

What we will be doing is playing with the data files and taking a look at what can be done.  The program is set up so that seperate file images can be loaded and basically seperate FBRs can be "tested".  This is what we will do while we await the change to mandatory AP.

Again, striving for a pure form of the data and a return to its roots.  

Maybe 4-3-3 or Cuz could provide a lesson to everyone on the Human Polls.

SWINGIT!! wrote:

FBR06AP wrote:Coach JM, correct me if we are incorrect, but both Selecao and JM will be AP 05 teams and would not be in this AP 06 poll anyways.  

You may need to take this up with the other person, we have no contact with that person.

If there is a Kicks Selecao AP 06 team, then will you leave them out of the rankings?

We will abide by each coach's wishes.  Coach JM has stated he does not wish to have his future Kicks Selecao 06 squad included so until such time as he states otherwise...  

AP Kicks Selecao 06 simply will not exist in FBR.

SkeetsG06 wrote:I've been around too long to know that exchanging posts with coaches on forums is not a good a idea.  No disrespect intended...just the opposite...nothing but respect.

FBR AP 06, you have read my POV, fine either way.  Peace

Skeets- I didn't think your post was disrespectful at all and I hope mine was not either.  We just have different POV.

jm23jm wrote:We will have a Kicks Selecao 06 team too.  

IMO, SWINGIT's DD already had the highest ceiling in the existing agegroup.  Shifting to calendar year, few teams will be able to defend her.

To clarify, I'm just praising the player. I'm not endorsing or offering a prediction.

Sho'nuff wrote:

jm23jm wrote:We will have a Kicks Selecao 06 team too.  

IMO, SWINGIT's DD already had the highest ceiling in the existing agegroup.  Shifting to calendar year, few teams will be able to defend her.

I don't know about that. There are some talented players in the age group.

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  I never said that I took over FBR before '01's went select.  I said I took over FBR publishing duties at U10, which is absolutely true.  We were doing them together, but I was the one posting the rankings under my username on here every week starting in the fall of U10, and I was not posting the tiers every week during U10.  Plus, I acknowledged the fact that I didn't remember what you were posting when you did the FBR at U9, so don't know what you're all pissy about with that.

Yes, you started posting rankings somewhere after the start of fall U10. I was still involved and "publishing" rankings on an txsoccerank.com all the way through December of u10....which can be confirmed because for some reason I've had that domain on auto-renew and it still exists! Either way, you can't complain about the threads being too long when tiers were posted, and in the same breath claim you don't remember me posting tiers in those long azz threads. I have a lot of respect for you, so I'll chalk it up to you just don't remember.

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  You used PW's as an example of a "hodgepodge" team and implied that we removed them from the rankings before the team stopped playing games under the PW moniker.  That is absolutely untrue. I counted EVERY game that PW's played at U10, and they were listed in the FBR that I posted up until AFTER they played their final game under the PW moniker, and parents came on this board and confirmed that PW's were no more and had basically merged with TFC Guzman.  I don't remember all of arguments, so we very well may have battled over how long I kept some teams in the rankings, but have no recollection of excluding any '01 "hodgepodge" teams like you claim, so please remind me who those teams were.

You jumped in this thread to point out a distinction without a difference.  I pulled up my old files...on 4/19/2011 PW was listed in Tier 2. In the 5/31/2011 file they were moved to Non-DFW teams.  Whether it was because of what parents said, or them not having enough players, the fact remains they were removed from rankings once it was clear they were not a real team.  I don't know if they played any more games after that, but I know PW folks were still debating whether to put a team in QT right up to the very end.  I also vividly recall all of the Kicks Gold / Kicks White discussions back in the day. They shared players, but both had core players on their own rosters. If I remember correctly, some of the PWs even played with Kicks. I feel pretty confident had JM created a Kicks "Magenta" team back then and explicitly stated it was a hodgepodge of players, they would NOT have been included in rankings. I was simply giving Kudos to FBR06 for his/her measured response on this topic, and IMO getting it right.

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  I never took issue with your statement about "De Facto" teams.  I know you hated that I did that.  

I don't know about "hate".  LOL. I wouldn't have done it. I think you make one set of rules and apply them to everyone equally. But that's just my obsession with fairness getting the best of me.  Like I said then and many times since, you do the work, you get to make your own rules.  Forgive me for thinking it was kinda kool FBR06 explicitly called out a plan to go the other way.

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  I never Pharreled you.  Never took credit for anything I did not do.  Only pointed out where you made inaccurate statements.

As mentioned, I didn't make any inaccurate statements. My earlier statement was "Original FBR also did NOT rank hodgepodge teams once it became common knowledge  they weren't real teams or were folding."  Nothing about your treatise on the PW situation shows this statement to be inaccurate. And maybe you haven't taken all the credit, but you've certainly sat by in silence when others have spun up revisionist history.  

You didn't Pharrell me, but only because I'll acknowledge that, unlike Pharrell, you improved upon the original. And you put in the herculean effort to keep it going, even for age groups for which you don't have a kid (an effort which I also admit to admiring). Surely you could give me the satisfaction of giving props to these new guys/gals for the way they are approaching this for 06s and trying to get back to something credible and fair for other age groups to emulate (which you have done yourself for many years).

SkeetsG06 wrote:

FBR06AP wrote:A non-ntx squd recorded in FBR counts in the calculations, but is excluded from the rankings that are published.  

So it does impact a team's standing in the Ranking, but that ghost team is not rewarded for anything.  Similar to the Socal teams that played at Super Copa.  They would be placed in the Non-NTX tiers, games recorded, would impact local squads positively and negatively, but not included in the published rankings.

I think that loophole discredits the FBR b/c it encourages teams to create mixed teams as there is no downside but it can hurt other teams.

A simple adjustment that in addition to Non-NTX squads, Mixed NTX squads will not count in FBR AND calculations of their opponents.

Just let me know if this is not going to change and I can stop tennis-posting you. :-)

Maybe one FBR 06AP does it one way and the other FBR 06G AP does it the other.  Either way is fine.

We were in discussion on this, and need to clarify...

A team like "Magenta" will not be counted in FBR. Will be as if a team never played the game.

The other squads that are questionable is what we will play with data files to see how we can make it work.

A Princess Warriors type team would be the example. We understand there may be a few in the mix currently, but we will not address those squads as we believe most are majority AP 05s and will be moving on.

Any PW squads in the future will be addressed and handled to provide as clean and clear FBR as possible.

Thank you all for the discussion.

4-3-3 wrote:

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  I never said that I took over FBR before '01's went select.  I said I took over FBR publishing duties at U10, which is absolutely true.  We were doing them together, but I was the one posting the rankings under my username on here every week starting in the fall of U10, and I was not posting the tiers every week during U10.  Plus, I acknowledged the fact that I didn't remember what you were posting when you did the FBR at U9, so don't know what you're all pissy about with that.

Yes, you started posting rankings somewhere after the start of fall U10. I was still involved and "publishing" rankings on an txsoccerank.com all the way through December of u10....which can be confirmed because for some reason I've had that domain on auto-renew and it still exists!   Either way, you can't complain about the threads being too long when tiers were posted, and in the same breath claim you don't remember me posting tiers in those long azz threads. I have a lot of respect for you, so I'll chalk it up to you just don't remember.

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  You used PW's as an example of a "hodgepodge" team and implied that we removed them from the rankings before the team stopped playing games under the PW moniker.  That is absolutely untrue. I counted EVERY game that PW's played at U10, and they were listed in the FBR that I posted up until AFTER they played their final game under the PW moniker, and parents came on this board and confirmed that PW's were no more and had basically merged with TFC Guzman.  I don't remember all of arguments, so we very well may have battled over how long I kept some teams in the rankings, but have no recollection of excluding any '01 "hodgepodge" teams like you claim, so please remind me who those teams were.

You jumped in this thread to point out a distinction without a difference.  I pulled up my old files...on 4/19/2011 PW was listed in Tier 2. In the 5/31/2011 file they were moved to Non-DFW teams.  Whether it was because of what parents said, or them not having enough players, the fact remains they were removed from rankings once it was clear they were not a real team.  I don't know if they played any more games after that, but I know PW folks were still debating whether to put a team in QT right up to the very end.  I also vividly recall all of the Kicks Gold / Kicks White discussions back in the day. They shared players, but both had core players on their own rosters. If I remember correctly, some of the PWs even played with Kicks. I feel pretty confident had JM created a Kicks "Magenta" team back then and explicitly stated it was a hodgepodge of players, they would NOT have been included in rankings. I was simply giving Kudos to FBR06 for his/her measured response on this topic, and IMO getting it right.

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  I never took issue with your statement about "De Facto" teams.  I know you hated that I did that.  

I don't know about "hate".  LOL. I wouldn't have done it. I think you make one set of rules and apply them to everyone equally. But that's just my obsession with fairness getting the best of me.  Like I said then and many times since, you do the work, you get to make your own rules.  Forgive me for thinking it was kinda kool FBR06 explicitly called out a plan to go the other way.

CUZete90 wrote:
Fact:  I never Pharreled you.  Never took credit for anything I did not do.  Only pointed out where you made inaccurate statements.

As mentioned, I didn't make any inaccurate statements. My earlier statement was "Original FBR also did NOT rank hodgepodge teams once it became common knowledge  they weren't real teams or were folding."  Nothing about your treatise on the PW situation shows this statement to be inaccurate. And maybe you haven't taken all the credit, but you've certainly sat by in silence when others have spun up revisionist history.  

I'm going to let you have the last word on all of this stuff above.  Anything more would just be additional parsing of semantics and debate over two different versions of somewhat revisionist history.  You and I are both pig-headed enough that we could go back and forth on this ad nauseum without either one of us conceding (not like we ever done THAT before... ).  No tangible benefit for either of us at this point.

4-3-3 wrote:You didn't Pharrell me, but only because I'll acknowledge that, unlike Pharrell, you improved upon the original. And you put in the herculean effort to keep it going, even for age groups for which you don't have a kid (an effort which I also admit to admiring).

...and there wouldn't be this discussion today if you didn't take the initiative to invest your time and effort into something you were passionate about.  You did the legwork, went out and found the FBR software package, figured out it's potential, then hounded the hell out of the FBR developers to implement the changes in the software that were necessary to adapt it to your purpose.  You were the Steve Jobs visionary, I was the Woz that came in and helped with the technical details.  Together we built something pretty damn solid.  The backbone of FBR (the calculation methodology, the various weighting schemes, etc...) hasn't changed since Feb. 2011 (when FBR delivered the final refinement to the SoS calculation that you were so damn adamant about ), and the consistency of the results over the past 5 years is pretty much indisputable.  All of that, and we managed to avoid killing each other before our kids made it to select...

4-3-3 wrote:Surely you could give me the satisfaction of giving props to these new guys/gals for the way they are approaching this for 06s and trying to get back to something credible and fair for other age groups to emulate (which you have done yourself for many years).

O.K.  Here's where I've still got the issue.  I didn't realize (and frankly still don't realize) that FBR has become so badly bastardized that it needs to be returned to it's "roots".  Frankly, I find ATP/FBR06ATP's passive/aggresive sideswipes at FBR06G to be pretty lame.  If you've got an issue with something that FBR06G is doing, man up and confront FBR06G on here.  Call out specifically what you think is wrong with FBR06G's approach, or tier assignments, or point out exactly which teams you think are out of whack in the rankings, and let FBR06G respond and defend (or investigate and fix).  That's how it was done in the '01 world.  People called you and me and Hobbit out constantly, and we responded with explanations backed by data.  Sometimes, we even admitted we had a problem and did our best to fix it.  I haven't seen any of that on here.  

All of this "post the tiers", and "we strive to return FBR back to what it was at its purest form" is just pure backhanded crap in my mind.  So sorry if I'm not giving props to guys/gals for "trying to get back to something credible and fair", because I've never seen anyone come on here and explain exactly why they think what FBR06G is posting isn't credible and fair.  

Could some things be tweaked with the current tiers?  Probably.  Is it blatantly out of whack?  I doubt it.  Would I be handling the AP transition or the "Magenta" issue differently?  Maybe.  Those are both challenging issues, and frankly, I never had to deal with anything quite like either in the 5 years I was involved with FBR (I personally think the '01 Kicks and '06 Kicks situations are significantly different, but again, that's a debate that would just dissolve into nitpicking over semantics and revisionist history).

As this thread has progressed, I just find FBR06ATP's repeated comments implying that FBR has somehow been irreversibly polluted or corrupted and needs to be rescued or restored to it "purest" form, are leaving more and more of a bad taste in my mouth.

You don't like it?  Fine.  Go publish your own and simply state what's different between yours and FBR06G.  Just spare me the "I'm here to be the savior of FBR" crap.

Our purpose is not to debate this. We do not wish to cause issue, so if anything was taken as passive aggressive that was not the intent.

We simply will be publishing one that others can choose to view or not.

We will be publishing a rank once all mandates are in place and we also publish tiers with our FBR to keep things transparent.

We appreciate the work done previously and strive to continue it.

I guess I am in a positive mood today, want to comment on both parties.

A lot can be said about Bo/ATP, but you can't say that he's not smart. The FBR is right in his wheelhouse.

I've questioned FBR06G along the way, and all the big decisions were modeled from Gophers. I don't think that anyone can question the integrity of that choice.

For the sake of science, I hope to see two FBRs.

CUZete90 wrote:O.K.  Here's where I've still got the issue.  I didn't realize (and frankly still don't realize) that FBR has become so badly bastardized that it needs to be returned to it's "roots".  Frankly, I find ATP/FBR06ATP's passive/aggresive sideswipes at FBR06G to be pretty lame.  If you've got an issue with something that FBR06G is doing, man up and confront FBR06G on here.  Call out specifically what you think is wrong with FBR06G's approach, or tier assignments, or point out exactly which teams you think are out of whack in the rankings, and let FBR06G respond and defend (or investigate and fix).  That's how it was done in the '01 world.  People called you and me and Hobbit out constantly, and we responded with explanations backed by data.  Sometimes, we even admitted we had a problem and did our best to fix it.  I haven't seen any of that on here.  

All of this "post the tiers", and "we strive to return FBR back to what it was at its purest form" is just pure backhanded crap in my mind.  So sorry if I'm not giving props to guys/gals for "trying to get back to something credible and fair", because I've never seen anyone come on here and explain exactly why they think what FBR06G is posting isn't credible and fair.  

Could some things be tweaked with the current tiers?  Probably.  Is it blatantly out of whack?  I doubt it.  Would I be handling the AP transition or the "Magenta" issue differently?  Maybe.  Those are both challenging issues, and frankly, I never had to deal with anything quite like either in the 5 years I was involved with FBR (I personally think the '01 Kicks and '06 Kicks situations are significantly different, but again, that's a debate that would just dissolve into nitpicking over semantics and revisionist history).

As this thread has progressed, I just find FBR06ATP's repeated comments implying that FBR has somehow been irreversibly polluted or corrupted and needs to be rescued or restored to it "purest" form, are leaving more and more of a bad taste in my mouth.

You don't like it?  Fine.  Go publish your own and simply state what's different between yours and FBR06G.  Just spare me the "I'm here to be the savior of FBR" crap.

Gosh please hurry with age pure rankings because I can hardly wait another day to find out where 9 and 10 year old girls are ranked in soccer because if my DD isn't ranked in the top 5 she'll never get a scholarship offer this year by all the college coaches roaming the sidelines with offer letters in their hands ! Hey people ... College football is in full swing ! How about focus on those teams and rankings instead of 9 year olds ?!?! Bottom line ... Who the heck cares? . As a Dad with one who's deep in the select soccer world and playing for a great coach on a D3 team and loving it ..... Just sit back and enjoy your kid playing the game and quit worrying about numerically where they stand . It ain't worth it , Now cue the pissed off Dads of 9 year olds responses who obsess over this crap in 3.....2....1..... Go!

2girls wrote:Gosh please hurry with age pure rankings because I can hardly wait another day to find out where 9 and 10 year old girls are ranked in soccer because if my DD isn't ranked in the top 5 she'll never get a scholarship offer this year by all the college coaches roaming the sidelines with offer letters in their hands !  Hey people ... College football is in full swing !  How about focus on those teams and  rankings instead of 9 year olds ?!?!  Bottom line ... Who the heck cares? . As a Dad with one who's deep in the select soccer world and playing for a great coach on a D3 team and loving it ..... Just sit back and enjoy your kid playing the game and quit worrying about numerically where they stand .  It ain't worth it ,  Now cue the pissed off Dads of 9 year  olds responses who obsess over this crap  in 3.....2....1..... Go!

Says the guy posting at 1 o'clock in the morning.
If your coach is so great, why is your team still in D3?

2girls wrote:College football is in full swing !  How about focus on those teams and  rankings instead of 9 year olds ?!?

Saturdays are for YourApeeIn soccer. My DD has converted me.

06DD wrote:

2girls wrote:Gosh please hurry with age pure rankings because I can hardly wait another day to find out where 9 and 10 year old girls are ranked in soccer because if my DD isn't ranked in the top 5 she'll never get a scholarship offer this year by all the college coaches roaming the sidelines with offer letters in their hands !  Hey people ... College football is in full swing !  How about focus on those teams and  rankings instead of 9 year olds ?!?!  Bottom line ... Who the heck cares? . As a Dad with one who's deep in the select soccer world and playing for a great coach on a D3 team and loving it ..... Just sit back and enjoy your kid playing the game and quit worrying about numerically where they stand .  It ain't worth it ,  Now cue the pissed off Dads of 9 year  olds responses who obsess over this crap  in 3.....2....1..... Go!

Says the guy posting at 1 o'clock in the morning.

FBR is total crap.
I agree with juice box and06DD.
This thread should be renamed NTX AP06 clubs & coaches directory.

Juice Box wrote:

06DD wrote:

2girls wrote:Gosh please hurry with age pure rankings because I can hardly wait another day to find out where 9 and 10 year old girls are ranked in soccer because if my DD isn't ranked in the top 5 she'll never get a scholarship offer this year by all the college coaches roaming the sidelines with offer letters in their hands !  Hey people ... College football is in full swing !  How about focus on those teams and  rankings instead of 9 year olds ?!?!  Bottom line ... Who the heck cares? . As a Dad with one who's deep in the select soccer world and playing for a great coach on a D3 team and loving it ..... Just sit back and enjoy your kid playing the game and quit worrying about numerically where they stand .  It ain't worth it ,  Now cue the pissed off Dads of 9 year  olds responses who obsess over this crap  in 3.....2....1..... Go!

Says the guy posting at 1 o'clock in the morning.

totalfootball wrote:FBR is total crap.
I agree with juice box and06DD.
This thread should be renamed  NTX AP06 clubs & coaches directory.

Juice Box wrote:

06DD wrote:

2girls wrote:Gosh please hurry with age pure rankings because I can hardly wait another day to find out where 9 and 10 year old girls are ranked in soccer because if my DD isn't ranked in the top 5 she'll never get a scholarship offer this year by all the college coaches roaming the sidelines with offer letters in their hands !  Hey people ... College football is in full swing !  How about focus on those teams and  rankings instead of 9 year olds ?!?!  Bottom line ... Who the heck cares? . As a Dad with one who's deep in the select soccer world and playing for a great coach on a D3 team and loving it ..... Just sit back and enjoy your kid playing the game and quit worrying about numerically where they stand .  It ain't worth it ,  Now cue the pissed off Dads of 9 year  olds responses who obsess over this crap  in 3.....2....1..... Go!

Says the guy posting at 1 o'clock in the morning.

I was actually agreeing to the post at 1 am. It seems like people want to trash FBR. I think that it has its place when done by a neutral party. Which is pretty much impossible unless someone is paid to do it. For sure not the end all be all for my DD's team selection.
If you don't like the FBR. Then don't read it. I personally have no issue with it unless you take it to serious. If you do take it serious than I will enjoy laughing at you.

I will tell you that the old 06 FBR is a waste of time.  I think that going to an age pure FBR is in the right direction.  It will be an interesting year for sure!

We have discussed and we will be posting the same listing for AP 05s as we will be for AP 06s.

The 05 parents could use this support in their search as teams begin to take shape over the coming months.

We wish everyone the best in their search for squads and coaches.

"FBRAP 06" coming soon is changing to "listings" now. Getting you in the right track.

FBR06AP wrote:We have discussed and we will be posting the same listing for AP 05s as we will be for AP 06s.

The 05 parents could use this support in their search as teams begin to take shape over the coming months.

We wish everyone the best in their search for squads and coaches.

totalfootball wrote:  "FBRAP 06" coming soon is changing to "listings" now. Getting you in the right track.  

FBR06AP wrote:We have discussed and we will be posting the same listing for AP 05s as we will be for AP 06s.

The 05 parents could use this support in their search as teams begin to take shape over the coming months.

We wish everyone the best in their search for squads and coaches.

Not sure if any changes will happen But, I thaught I should ask. Is BW going to do 05 FBR in the coming year or is FBR06 doing the FBR for age true 05s? Not a big deal but I am sure that it affects who is doing the FBR and where there DD lands.

Too early.   Spring will be a mess.  common sense approach : no AP leagues,  and if I was a NTX coach with no ethics , which is pretty common in NTX.  I'll be using non AP kids next season  , collect points with wins, move up FBR, claim its true age group  team , move up the FBR and recruit, recruit. My wine talking on a Saturday night.  Had a great weekend of soccer for all my teams ,  i can't help it.  

Juice Box wrote:

totalfootball wrote:  "FBRAP 06" coming soon is changing to "listings" now. Getting you in the right track.  

FBR06AP wrote:We have discussed and we will be posting the same listing for AP 05s as we will be for AP 06s.

The 05 parents could use this support in their search as teams begin to take shape over the coming months.

We wish everyone the best in their search for squads and coaches.

Not sure if any changes will happen  But, I thaught I should ask. Is BW going to do 05 FBR in the coming year or is FBR06 doing the FBR for age true 05s? Not a big deal but I am sure that it affects who is doing the FBR and where there DD lands.

Juice Box wrote: I think that it has its place when done by a neutral party. Which is pretty much impossible unless someone is paid to do it.

I'd be more than happy to come out of retirement if someone can negotiate me a deal for 5% of the gross parking revenue at Toyota Soccer Center for the weekends of Michael Brown and King TuT...

Thats the least they could do for seeding their tournament for the last few years