Composite Shapeshifter

Is the "composite" structure still being decided? At first it was "ECNL Composite" but then heard they no longer have anything to do with ECNL and is now LH, but yet still posts to this day asking players to try out for "ECNL Composite"? Also, there has been conflicting info on whether "composite" is age pure or age combined (02/03, 00/01, etc).  Can someone that really knows please explain the "composite" terminology as there is conflicting information out there--and is this all still up in the air or is it settled? No need for people to post the rumors about this, as that is already on this forum. An already crazy time of year is absolutely unsettling for families as there are too many unanswered questions and indecision and back/forth. These composite open practices are drawing a lot of players--people need answers on what it really is so that they can make informed decisions for their DDs.

Information is power.

The people who need to know already know, and there is no reason for them to give away any more information until it benefits them.

If there was any benefit to them by you knowing more, you would already know more.

THAT, I already know

Is this a situation where the 5 big clubs are acting like a cartel in order to maximize profits, maximize power and further separate themselves competitively from the smaller clubs? If this is the goal then it would be similar to what the P5 conferences in college football are rumored to want to do if they separate themselves from the NCAA and form their own P5 association so that they don't have to share profits with the smaller leagues/teams.

I wonder if the Big Soccer 5 will eventually cut LH out of the loop and run it themselves once it's up and running in order to maximize profits?

I don't blame the Big 5 for trying this. They're all just running a business. I doubt that it's in the best interests of soccer in the metroplex since it will give the Big 5 more power, consumers less power and choice and costs will rise to play for the elite 5 if you want to play in the most elite league. It's clever.

Spoke with a high ranking US Soccer official this past weekend at NPL Regionals in OKC.. Composite teams is something started by the ECNL clubs here in NTX. There are no composite teams that will travel and play along side ECNL teams the same day. ECNL wants to keep their league at a high standard and not an elitist league and want nothing to do with composite.  US Soccer clearly see it as a money grab. Emails have been sent asking not to pursue the term ECNL composite teams. Seems someone over at Sting thought different.  This official did mention they liked the idea what LH has proposed with the Champions League and this is the plan going forward. Teams from NTX will cross play against teams from STX.. So composite is nothing but a team put together to play in LH Champions League not ECNL..

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:..So composite is nothing but a team put together to play in LH Champions League not ECNL..

So is composite playing champions league in LH and not classic? Somehow I missed this. Where did you hear this SOAP?

If it was started by NTX clubs it would not be on the ECNL website.

Go look, it's there.

SD69 wrote:

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:..So composite is nothing but a team put together to play in LH Champions League not ECNL..

So is composite playing champions league in LH and not classic? Somehow I missed this. Where did you hear this SOAP?

What SOAP said is similar to my latest info. Whatever the "composite" teams end up being (I don't think roster rules, etc. have been fully ironed out yet), they will play in the new Champions League run by LH in conjunction with STX and OK entities. Champions League will include the composite teams from the TX conference ECNL clubs + other invitees from LH, STX, and OK (teams invited based on league results, similar to Premier League invites). I'm hearing up to 16 teams total in Champions League. Am also hearing that LH will work with the ECNL clubs on scheduling so that Champions League matches between ECNL clubs will be on the same day, and close proximity to the ECNL matches. So while composite will not be under the umbrella of ECNL, they will still try to maintain some kind of informal link between the two.

Heard that top 2 finishers from Champions League will get invites to US Club Nationals.

I am still hearing that LH will offer Champions League spots to the top 3 finishers from D1, and that they will need to choose between playing in Champions League or USYSA Premier League.

With so many parents with their checkbooks out not sweating details, if you're the clubs why the hell would you bother with details??

bwgophers wrote:

SD69 wrote:

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:..So composite is nothing but a team put together to play in LH Champions League not ECNL..

So is composite playing champions league in LH and not classic? Somehow I missed this. Where did you hear this SOAP?

What SOAP said is similar to my latest info.  Whatever the "composite" teams end up being (I don't think roster rules, etc. have been fully ironed out yet), they will play in the new Champions League run by LH in conjunction with STX and OK entities.  Champions League will include the composite teams from the TX conference ECNL clubs + other invitees from LH, STX, and OK (teams invited based on league results, similar to Premier League invites).  I'm hearing up to 16 teams total in Champions League.  Am also hearing that LH will work with the ECNL clubs on scheduling so that Champions League matches between ECNL clubs will be on the same day, and close proximity to the ECNL matches.  So while composite will not be under the umbrella of ECNL, they will still try to maintain some kind of informal link between the two.

Heard that top 2 finishers from Champions League will get invites to US Club Nationals.

I am still hearing that LH will offer Champions League spots to the top 3 finishers from D1, and that they will need to choose between playing in Champions League or USYSA Premier League.  

This year only? Or is this every year? I assume that some non-ECNL club teams would be relegated every year if this is the case else it would keep growing.

SD69 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

SD69 wrote:

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:..So composite is nothing but a team put together to play in LH Champions League not ECNL..

So is composite playing champions league in LH and not classic? Somehow I missed this. Where did you hear this SOAP?

What SOAP said is similar to my latest info.  Whatever the "composite" teams end up being (I don't think roster rules, etc. have been fully ironed out yet), they will play in the new Champions League run by LH in conjunction with STX and OK entities.  Champions League will include the composite teams from the TX conference ECNL clubs + other invitees from LH, STX, and OK (teams invited based on league results, similar to Premier League invites).  I'm hearing up to 16 teams total in Champions League.  Am also hearing that LH will work with the ECNL clubs on scheduling so that Champions League matches between ECNL clubs will be on the same day, and close proximity to the ECNL matches.  So while composite will not be under the umbrella of ECNL, they will still try to maintain some kind of informal link between the two.

Heard that top 2 finishers from Champions League will get invites to US Club Nationals.

I am still hearing that LH will offer Champions League spots to the top 3 finishers from D1, and that they will need to choose between playing in Champions League or USYSA Premier League.  

This year only? Or is this every year? I assume that some non-ECNL club teams would be relegated every year if this is the case else it would keep growing.

There will be a promotion/relegation system for the 3 LH spots, but details are sketchy on that at this point. Hearing that a challenge system is being discussed.

...and college coaches attendance at these composite events? At first, it seemed that was the big draw because some were calling it "ECNL composite" (and frankly some still are). If not "alongside" ECNL, physically, then will LH rally up the recruiters--or did that idea die with the term, "ECNL composite"? Where will these champions league games be played?

Rico_Passe wrote:...and college coaches attendance at these composite events?  At first, it seemed that was the big draw because some were calling it "ECNL composite" (and frankly some still are).  If not "alongside" ECNL, physically, then will LH rally up the recruiters--or did that idea die with the term, "ECNL composite"?  Where will these champions league games be played?  

While majority of the the games will be played in our own back yard, be prepare to travel between OK and STX.

Please let me know when was the last time LH did anything for player development. Now you are wanting them to pull college coaches out to watch division II and III games.

Rico_Passe wrote:...and college coaches attendance at these composite events?  At first, it seemed that was the big draw because some were calling it "ECNL composite" (and frankly some still are).  If not "alongside" ECNL, physically, then will LH rally up the recruiters--or did that idea die with the term, "ECNL composite"?  Where will these champions league games be played?  

It's not LH's job to rally up the recruiters.  It's your DD's.  

However, if your DD contacts a coach and says that she'll be playing in a ChL match on the same day and in close proximity to ECNL matches, if the coach is already in the area to watch ECNL matches, there's a higher likelihood that he/she will show up at your DD's game, even more so if there are multiple players in the composite match that have contacted the same coach.

It's not a given that composite or ChL will be a recruiting boon, that remains to be seen, but that is the general premise in play.

Is it still going to be more expensive then playing in a LH TEAM? If so, guess it is up to the individual whether it is worth the money. With so many unanswered questions, buyer beware!

Yes agree it is the player's responsibility. However when composite was first introduced, exposure was a perk. Some clubs are still calling it ECNL composite and it's not. So in between what it was being advertised in the past and what it is at this very second seem to be two very different things. Obviously if you're dd's good enough she will be found, especially is she is successfully promoting herself. But the one stop shop that was originally being touted at one time was a real perk--that is no longer.

For my own obvious misunderstanding explain to me how it has no connection to ecnl when there it is on the ecnl website as being connected?

Does lh have problems yes...but if people think the new "jdl" leagues came out to solve those problems!?!? Then You've lost your mind...the main plan is to consolidate power and cut others out. It has nothing to do with quality or a league.  The big clubs are pulling the strings and don't care whether lh runs the league or someone else.  I know there is a club in frisco that draws big numbers for this silliness...then does the bait and switch..... if your princess doesn't make the main team.  Several others do the same...just not on the same scale.

soccerjack wrote:Does lh have problems yes...but if people think the new "jdl" leagues came out to solve those problems!?!? Then You've lost your mind...the main plan is to consolidate power and cut others out. It has nothing to do with quality or a league.  The big clubs are pulling the strings and don't care whether lh runs the league or someone else.  I know there is a club in frisco that draws big numbers for this silliness...then does the bait and switch..... if your princess doesn't make the main team.  Several others do the same...just not on the same scale.

Hey Jack,

Question for you. When ECNL was introduced in NTX in 2009, was the purpose for the ECNL clubs to increase their market share and push the other clubs out of the way in NTX? If so, how successful would you say the ECNL clubs have been at doing that?

bwgophers wrote:

soccerjack wrote:Does lh have problems yes...but if people think the new "jdl" leagues came out to solve those problems!?!? Then You've lost your mind...the main plan is to consolidate power and cut others out. It has nothing to do with quality or a league.  The big clubs are pulling the strings and don't care whether lh runs the league or someone else.  I know there is a club in frisco that draws big numbers for this silliness...then does the bait and switch..... if your princess doesn't make the main team.  Several others do the same...just not on the same scale.

Hey Jack,

Question for you.  When ECNL was introduced in NTX in 2009, was the purpose for the ECNL clubs to increase their market share and push the other clubs out of the way in NTX?  If so, how successful would you say the ECNL clubs have been at doing that?

Fyi. Don't agree with your statement...but time will tell. Learned enough..In the last couple of years, that it's a money train. Ecnl was about a small group of clubs..same now, but a larger grab for kids $$$. Don't think its good and don't think its because it's of "lh mismanagement". Please enlighten me.  Now you have a smaller group of people with a larger piece of the pie....must be good. Tell me how that helps 9-11 yr olds develop better.

And btw....do you really think every ecnl player was better than all the other players in ntx over the last 9/10 years. Homie don't think so....not trying to call out your board wisdom....but deciding a kids fate at 9-10yrs old would make you an Atari professional and me a porn star.  Both are fleeting.  Or vice versa...but I am a donkey. so I could make it work.

soccerjack wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

soccerjack wrote:Does lh have problems yes...but if people think the new "jdl" leagues came out to solve those problems!?!? Then You've lost your mind...the main plan is to consolidate power and cut others out. It has nothing to do with quality or a league.  The big clubs are pulling the strings and don't care whether lh runs the league or someone else.  I know there is a club in frisco that draws big numbers for this silliness...then does the bait and switch..... if your princess doesn't make the main team.  Several others do the same...just not on the same scale.

Hey Jack,

Question for you.  When ECNL was introduced in NTX in 2009, was the purpose for the ECNL clubs to increase their market share and push the other clubs out of the way in NTX?  If so, how successful would you say the ECNL clubs have been at doing that?

Fyi. Don't agree with your statement...but time will tell. Learned enough..In the last couple of years, that it's a money train. Ecnl was about a small group of clubs..same now, but a larger grab for kids $$$. Don't think its good and don't think its because it's of "lh mismanagement". Please enlighten me.  Now you have a smaller group of people with a larger piece of the pie....must be good.  Tell me how that helps 9-11 yr olds develop better.

??? I didn't make a statement. I asked you a question. Let me rephrase the question a bit...

You, and several others, have stated and/or implied that you feel that changes happening this Spring (JDL, Composite, Champions League, etc.), are being pushed by the ECNL clubs as money grabs aimed at increasing revenue and/or increasing their market dominance in NTX. Oh by the way, I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with that sentiment. The jury is still out in my mind. I'm also not saying anything about whether or not I think the changes will be good or bad for player development. Not my forte, and I think if you go back through my extensive posting history, you'll see that I've generally avoided discussions on player development, because frankly, I'm thoroughly unqualified to comment on that.

With this latest round of hand-wringing over the changes, I get the sense that people feel like this is "deja vu all over again", and that they generally view that when ECNL came on the scene in 2009, that it also was a money grab for the ECNL clubs and that the primary motivation of the ECNL clubs was to use ECNL as a carrot to attract a larger number of players and a larger portion of the top players in NTX to their clubs over the non-ECNL clubs.

So, I am simply asking if your impression/perception is that ECNL was business driven, and if so, is your impression/perception that the clubs succeeded in using ECNL to increase their market share in NTX at the expense of the non-ECNL clubs?

Again, not asking, or trying to make any point with regards to whether or not ECNL, or the new JDL, ChL, Composite, are a benefit or hindrance to player development. Just asking if people who view the new changes as a money/power grab felt or feel the same way about ECNL.

I'll play.  Of course ECNL resulted in a stronger market position for big clubs at the expense of non ecnl clubs BW. The composite thing is the next move to capitalize further on that position.  It's not about the total teams in play for the big clubs. It's about having full control over the rules, playing structure  and costs for all revenue players without interference or competition from USYS.

Not really sure why it is so hard for many to understand the concept of ECNL or any other league that forms outside of LHGCL.

Business and revenue stream absolutely play a role in this and anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. However, that revenue stream is guided by a group that first recognized, we (girls soccer) needed something better. What ECNL has done is provide more meaningful matches for girls ages 13-18. It is no secret that pretty much every age group has 3-5 teams that are way ahead of the other teams in a 10 team LH league. As such, half of the league games played by these teams are meaningless, non competitive games. While you still find a dominant team or two in ECNL, that league provides much better overall competition.

While it is still possible, you very rarely find a team in ECNL that finishes the season with 55 GF and 2 against...this is very common with the top few teams in LH in each age group. History said that the vast majority of the time that the top 3-5 teams in each age group were typically the top teams from the big clubs. Certainly, there are exceptions to that rule but if you look at the top 5 in each non-ECNL age groups, they are consistently, FC Dallas, Texans, Solar, Liverpool, Sting. D'Feeters have dropped off over the years but at the inception of ECNL they were a team rich in historical success.

Bottom line is that ECNL stepped in and offered these clubs a structure to play against each other more and also the better teams from other areas. If any of you have had kids on top LH teams, then you know it is very possible to go 4, 5, 6 games over the course of 6 weeks, with none of them being competitive games. Games that are 5, 6, 7, 8-0 are not good for either team. The only thing ECNL did was bridge that gap and provide a way to play the better teams more often.

If doing away with the blow out games isn't making kids develop better than I am not sure what it is that some folks are after. People can moan as much as they want, and those that play for clubs that aren't part of it are typically the loudest - but to say it doesn't provide a better way of developing players is extremely short sighted.