Composite Shapeshifter

soccerjack wrote:

Zizou wrote:

soccerjack wrote:

4-3-3 wrote:

Zizou wrote:All this amounts to is, the luster on that diamond has faded. Those who three years ago missed the boat are now jumping ship to become or to stay relevant. This plan for the big clubs to take control of the local scene has been in the works for years. Some have decided to imbrace it and of course those who decided to fight it. Of course, those who fought it are the ones looking to get in now.

Players should look for situations that fit their goals, abilities and desired environment. Whether big clubs plan to take control of leagues should have little to nothing to do with it, and rest assured when clubs evaluate players, they care more about who can do what on the field.  Being the first to write a check has some advantages, but being good matters more in the long run. Always does.

Agreed....I don't think most are complaining because their poor dd is not involved and zizou might be surprised to learn that several have a dd involved. It's the bigger picture from the biz side that is concerning for anyone that steps back and takes off the rose colored glasses for a minute. Bw said there is probably a mix of good intentions and control if I read it right. I am of the opinion that power, control and money are 90% of the equation.  

Man you are debating an age old problem that you nor I will ever be able to change. The NTX model has been in place before we were involved and will continue well after we are gone. Rose colored glasses or not you and your DD will have to continuously evaluate and make decision good or bad throughout their entire career. What decisions you choose will work for your DD.

Ohh I'll get it changed....I've been in conversations with soapbox mom and she's agreed to take up the cause. It's all being posted on real scam as we speak and lawsuits are being filed. She should be giving us an update shortly.

Now that is funny!

What I don't understand is why players are agreeing to spots on these "composite" teams when the structure is up in the air and there are still ECNL first team spots being filled by multiple clubs.

Zizou wrote:Training and coach are very important at our stage in the game.

Agreed. And one could also say coaching and training are very important at EVERY stage, and likely more important than league every stage as well (at least in the youth game).

For example, as you know my dd changed environments this year, but her decision had absolutely zero to do with finding a better league, and everything to do with seeking out a different fit for coaching. When it came time to look, I told her about a small # of coaches I knew of who, IMHO, still develop players. We contacted them, listened to what they had to say, and she made her decision based on coach and environment. League had little bearing, other than what she knew of what type of players she would face in each league. In fact the coach I encouraged her to go with gave precise detail for what she already does well, what she needs to improve, along with a plan for her progression. He was not an ECNL coach. But since u11 she makes her own decisions on where to play, and she chose a different route. Having been spot on with every choice she's made so far, often in direct opposition to what I was telling her to do, I've learned to trust her judgement on these matters will be better than mine.

I'm not railing against us club composite leagues or JDL or whatever else comes next (except in the broader sense that I think closed systems are generally bad for NTX, and eventually reduced choice leads to reduced competition and reduced quality). All I'm saying is regardless of league, parents should be looking at the same factors that have always mattered when it comes to finding a great fit for their dd. If the best coach and environment fit for my DD, in her estimation, not mine, was an encl composite team, she would be empowered to make her decision to go for it. But that decision would absolutely NOT be based on any faint hopes of trickle down exposure from ECNL teams.

NorthDallasSoccer wrote:The biggest motivation is to have some control so that the NTX parental-led environment of win now at all costs and at the expense of any manner of tactics or development can be muted - at least to some extent. And the control is not necessarily from small club to big club but from parents to clubs/coaches. The smaller clubs are much more influenced by parent attitudes. This is all IMHO.

Good post. Agreed that smaller clubs are more influenced by parents, but that's by design, since most small clubs were started by parents. Daddy or Mommy coach decides to invest a ton of time and energy into their kids youth team. If they're good enough, and savvy enough to manage the relationships, boom!!, a club is born. I'd be interested to know how many ntx youth soccer clubs DIDN'T start out this way.

There should still be a place for this in the market. Some demographic can get high quality training and exposure to the game through that model, where they could be priced out of the standard big club system.

NTX of old had an even playing field such that if a minnow can get it done on the field, an open, merit-based league allowed them to compete against organizations with completely different cost structures. It's one of the reasons the world cup is so beloved. Tiny nations can compete with giants, and newcomers can compete with blue bloods in any given year, based on a level playing field, with open access. Whether you're a Germany, or you're a Panama, you earn your spot at the dance.

Any change to the NTX landscape that removes access for daddy or mommy coach, or independents, or small clubs, is a step backwards IMHO.

It restricts the competitive youth levels to the hands of professional coaches only. It further entrenches pay to play, and removes skilled volunteers who might know the game, and be motivated enough to teach it, from having any ability to impact the game outside of rec level.

4-3-3 wrote:

NorthDallasSoccer wrote:The biggest motivation is to have some control so that the NTX parental-led environment of win now at all costs and at the expense of any manner of tactics or development can be muted - at least to some extent. And the control is not necessarily from small club to big club but from parents to clubs/coaches. The smaller clubs are much more influenced by parent attitudes. This is all IMHO.

Good post. Agreed that smaller clubs are more influenced by parents, but that's by design, since most small clubs were started by parents. Daddy or Mommy coach decides to invest a ton of time and energy into their kids youth team. If they're good enough, and savvy enough to manage the relationships, boom!!, a club is born. I'd be interested to know how many ntx youth soccer clubs DIDN'T start out this way.

There should still be a place for this in the market. Some demographic can get high quality training and exposure to the game through that model, where they could be priced out of the standard big club system.

NTX of old had an even playing field such that if a minnow can get it done on the field, an open, merit-based league allowed them to compete against organizations with completely different cost structures. It's one of the reasons the world cup is so beloved. Tiny nations can compete with giants, and newcomers can compete with blue bloods in any given year, based on a level playing field, with open access. Whether you're a Germany, or you're a Panama, you earn your spot at the dance.

Any change to the NTX landscape that removes access for daddy or mommy coach, or independents, or small clubs, is a step backwards IMHO.

It restricts the competitive youth levels to the hands of professional coaches only. It further entrenches pay to play, and removes skilled volunteers who might know the game, and be motivated enough to teach it, from having any ability to impact the game outside of rec level.

Spot on. The funny thing about it is...the parents they are complaining about are the ones they are courting. These same parents will bring their money to see the shiny new object and say their kid is a part of it.  Well played by the big boys.

I would add to north Dallas post that your statement is fair assuming the clubs intentions are all about better development. IMHO they aren't...they destoyed lh with cpp and keeping unearned byes. A lot of kids leave teams because of bad coaching or a bad club environment. What choice will you have if they put everyone else out of biz?

I've have not had a bad experience with any of the big clubs we have been a part of. It is different for each individual.

Agree Zizou. We've had some challenges with individual coaches and a few parents along the way, but never the "club". Our experience has been each team/coach/parents are an island within the club. Never have we had any touchpoint with DOC or owner involvement on behalf of individuals on the team. It's each team for their own...at least that's how our journey has been to this point. Disclaimer, we've never been on a top/top team or ECNL, so maybe there are those on teams like that who've had a different experience.

It's also my slightly jaded position that some of the big clubs bulk up on teams at the lower ages to fund older teams at the top of their leagues...i.e. scholarships, training facilities, etc.

Geez. That's not the point that people are making. You guys are probably right though the big clubs have your dd best interest at heart and should be given the keys to control the leagues and rules of ntx soccer.

4-3-3 wrote:

Zizou wrote:Training and coach are very important at our stage in the game.

Agreed. And one could also say coaching and training are very important at EVERY stage, and likely more important than league every stage as well (at least in the youth game).

For example, as you know my dd changed environments this year, but her decision had absolutely zero to do with finding a better league, and everything to do with seeking out a different fit for coaching. When it came time to look, I told her about a small # of coaches I knew of who, IMHO, still develop players. We contacted them, listened to what they had to say, and she made her decision based on coach and environment. League had little bearing, other than what she knew of what type of players she would face in each league. In fact the coach I encouraged her to go with gave precise detail for what she already does well, what she needs to improve, along with a plan for her progression. He was not an ECNL coach. But since u11 she makes her own decisions on where to play, and she chose a different route. Having been spot on with every choice she's made so far, often in direct opposition to what I was telling her to do, I've learned to trust her judgement on these matters will be better than mine.

I'm not railing against us club composite leagues or JDL or whatever else comes next (except in the broader sense that I think closed systems are generally bad for NTX, and eventually reduced choice leads to reduced competition and reduced quality). All I'm saying is regardless of league, parents should be looking at the same factors that have always mattered when it comes to finding a great fit for their dd. If the best coach and environment fit for my DD, in her estimation, not mine, was an encl composite team, she would be empowered to make her decision to go for it. But that decision would absolutely NOT be based on any faint hopes of trickle down exposure from ECNL teams.

In other words you finally jumped to the same league that you spent years railing against. It was only a matter of time. Welcome aboard.

Does anyone know when there will be an actual final plan for this new "Champions League" or whatever it is being called this week?  We are still being approached by coaches talking about ECNL "Composite" and the last I heard, that isn't going to happen.  It also seems like some clubs are making a lot of "composite" team offers.  Surely, there isn't any player stockpiling going on...

In other words you finally jumped to the same league that you spent years railing against. It was only a matter of time. Welcome aboard.

Negative B.O.S.S. - I played my last league game @ inwood 4 or 5 years ago..way too old  for my style of play now...haven't jumped anywhere in a long time...did do a mini jump when I hit a 180 yd par 3 hole in one a few months back.

Sent to the Stands wrote:Does anyone know when there will be an actual final plan for this new "Champions League" or whatever it is being called this week?  We are still being approached by coaches talking about ECNL "Composite" and the last I heard, that isn't going to happen.  It also seems like some clubs are making a lot of "composite" team offers.  Surely, there isn't any player stockpiling going on...

Thanks for getting the initial topic back on track. This is essentially the everlasting [semi-answered/unanswered] question...

Has Lake Highlands sent out any new info about Champions League? It's June 21st....

Starting to wonder if it is a vapor league right now.

Pretty sure those that need to know... know...