Why is Primetime discriminating?

AtThePitch wrote:I would disagree there. STX is behind NTX at these younger ages, significantly for the most part. We have 08 teams that would have faired well against those same 06 STX teams that solar 07 played.

Good point stx and other regions tend to pass by ntx at the older ages when skill and soccer iq take over.

ForReal wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:No offense to the STX teams or solar, but Solar 07 was not playing the top 06 squads from STX.

Agreed, but I'm pretty confident those that they played are similar to those in the U11 PT league.

Very true. They played the 6th, 7th, and 8th best '06 teams in Houston (the B team from each major club) on an ODP weekend where many STX kids were off playing in College Station instead.

Regardless, none of their opponents last weekend are among the top 500 teams in the country, and all are probably roughly equivalent to the 30th best '06 team in Dallas.

That being said, Solar 07 is indeed fantastic, if they did play them, they would likely give the top '06 STX teams all they want.

AtThePitch wrote:I would disagree there. STX is behind NTX at these younger ages, significantly for the most part. We have 08 teams that would have faired well against those same 06 STX teams that solar 07 played.

Yes, STX trails NTX at the 06 age at this point. But you are failing to understand that the 06s in PT are in PT for a reason. They didn't make JDL, LH, PPL, etc. Maybe they could have played PPL and elected not to. In any event, they aren't top 30 teams. So, they aren't much different than the STX teams that Solar played that per US Soccer Rankings are generally top 15-30 in STX.

I know why they are in PT, but I also mentioned they could play U12s also.

This debate is rehashed yearly... I'll go back to my lovely man hole now. Carry on.

AtThePitch wrote:I would disagree there. STX is behind NTX at these younger ages, significantly for the most part. We have 08 teams that would have faired well against those same 06 STX teams that solar 07 played.

Generally, this is true. But, STX is much more aggressive about playing girls up. Those '06 B teams that Solar destroyed consist of a good chunk of '07 girls. For instance, the team that beat FCD Red and tied Solar Springate was starting four '07s.

Houston isn't nearly as deep as Dallas in player pool. So without a lot of quality competition, almost without exception top players play up one or two years in Houston. That's why the gap appears to close a bit as the girls get older. It doesn't really close, Houston girls just start playing true age so they're teams get better.

timmyh wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:I would disagree there. STX is behind NTX at these younger ages, significantly for the most part. We have 08 teams that would have faired well against those same 06 STX teams that solar 07 played.

Generally, this is true.  But, STX is much more aggressive about playing girls up.  Those '06 B teams that Solar destroyed consist of a good chunk of '07 girls.  For instance, the team that beat FCD Red and tied Solar Springate was starting four '07s.

So, is 'Da Man' (NTX Soccer) holding our kids, boys and girls, back by not letting them play up? I guess STX doesnt have that rule?

boilerjoe_96 wrote:

timmyh wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:I would disagree there. STX is behind NTX at these younger ages, significantly for the most part. We have 08 teams that would have faired well against those same 06 STX teams that solar 07 played.

Generally, this is true.  But, STX is much more aggressive about playing girls up.  Those '06 B teams that Solar destroyed consist of a good chunk of '07 girls.  For instance, the team that beat FCD Red and tied Solar Springate was starting four '07s.

So, is 'Da Man' (NTX Soccer) holding our kids, boys and girls, back by not letting them play up? I guess STX doesnt have that rule?

STX does not have that rule. To be honest, I've never understood why it exists in NTX.
All it does is prevent girls from playing to their proper level that challenges them because, generally speaking, NTX coaches at U10 don't want play ups on their team because they have to replace them at U11. Who is that good for again?

In every age group that I have ever seen there have been teams that played against the boys. It was always the top teams. Overall they faired ok. It was allowed and hated even then. Neither side or argument is new. Old news. Teams will get their reps against the boys. Sometimes those boys and their coach take ball and go home. Those are the breaks.

ForReal wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:There is literally nothing stopping a boys or girls team from playing up into U11 or U12 for that matter in any non NTX sanction league... Primetime is one of them.  You want faster speed of play, harder tackles, bigger hits... MOVE ON UP!

They will play up some.  But Solar 07 just thrashed very good 06 teams in the Woodlands.  http://texasrush.bonzidev.com/sam/standings/ss/schedule.php?containerID=Mjg3NDIyMA==

I highly doubt the 06 teams in PT (who aren't in LH, Plano or Arlington) would provide them and Kicks with real competition.  Heck, Solar and Kicks might be better off just playing a handful of the 07 top division teams instead.

I'm sure these '07s are fantastic, but don't act like beating third tier STX teams is noteworthy.

Sho'Nuff wrote:

ForReal wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:There is literally nothing stopping a boys or girls team from playing up into U11 or U12 for that matter in any non NTX sanction league... Primetime is one of them.  You want faster speed of play, harder tackles, bigger hits... MOVE ON UP!

They will play up some.  But Solar 07 just thrashed very good 06 teams in the Woodlands.  http://texasrush.bonzidev.com/sam/standings/ss/schedule.php?containerID=Mjg3NDIyMA==

I highly doubt the 06 teams in PT (who aren't in LH, Plano or Arlington) would provide them and Kicks with real competition.  Heck, Solar and Kicks might be better off just playing a handful of the 07 top division teams instead.

I'm sure these '07s are fantastic, but don't act like beating third tier STX teams is noteworthy.  

Great.  You're going to make me do this.  Using Youth Soccer Rankings:  

Solar 07 (5) - Challenge 06 (0) - #24 in STX
Solar 07 (11) - Texas Rush 06 Black (1) - #19 in STX
Solar 07 (13) - AHFC 06G B (2) - #20 in STX

Teams in PT U11:
Bellatores - #15 in NTX
FCD Youth Red - #63 in NTX
NTX Celtic Blevins - #53 in NTX
TX Spirit North Red - #66 in NTX
Fury FC - #61 in NTX
Sparta - #47 in NTX
FCD Youth East Blue - #59 in NTX

I can go on down the PT list.  It doesn't get better.  As a barometer on the national rankings, Nos. 19 and 20 in STX are 810-893 in the nation.  No. 55 in NTX is 823 in the nation.

So, back to my point.  The 06 teams that Solar and Kicks will be playing in PT "aren't much different than the STX teams that Solar played."

boilerjoe_96 wrote:

slrsoccer wrote:

jogobonito06 wrote:They have refused numerous girl's teams entry into the boy's leagues.  There is a long tradition of top girl's teams playing vs boys.  A few of these teams played boys as recently as this Fall.

What gives?

Because it is the right thing to do.  You can go back and look at any of the girls teams that play against boys and they typically get slaughtered by the best 5 or 6 boys teams.  It is absolutely a "lose-lose" for the boys and contrary to some of the girls coaches and parents, not good for their overall development.  

Also, I don't want to hear about not having the option to play up the last year before select.  The boys teams don't have that option either and if you are far and away the best boys team in an age group, you just have to deal with it at U10.

If you are talking about age groups below U10, simply play up against the older girls, they will give all the competition you need.

Right thing?  That your opinion(and/or one of your coaches).  I see both girl teams took out top 10ish boy opponents in the fall.  So both seem up for the task.

Kind of ironic a Solar Coach, helped keep the Solar Colvin/Springate team out. That's club team work!      

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, but I will bite.

You are wanting to play against the boys, why? I can only assume that it is because you want better competition. That is great for the girls but not for the number 8-15 ranked boys teams you will play and compete against. If they beat you, it was just a bunch of girls, if they lose to you, it's, you guys lost to a bunch of girls...lose-lose situation. When girls teams play the best 5 boys team in the same age group it is typically (with few exceptions) a complete waste of time for the boys. Why should they have to play a non-competitive game just because a girls team wants to play better competition? There are two sides to this, but you are only looking at one.

Discriminatory? Are boys allowed to play in the girls leagues? I have never seen that happen, are they being discriminated against? Boys teams don't get to "play-up" against good teams a year older the year before they move to select to get better competition. Why is it not a big deal for them, but a big deal for you?

If you want my honest opinion, there is not one girls team that should be playing against boys, none. The only reason this happens is because of overzealous coaches and overzealous parents. There maybe a girl, or two, or three that could be better served playing against boys, but not teams.

Go look at some of the results of the girls teams in the past that have done this. They either 1) get pummeled 4,5,6-0 against the top boys teams or they pummel 4,5,6-0 the weaker boys teams. Why not just play the other good girls teams in the same age group and have some closer games?

Let's look at Kicks 05 as an example, a team that just finished runners up in Vegas. This is a great 05 girls team that played in UAL Spring 2016 and went 1 win against 7 losses with 8 goals scored and 50 given up. They did manage a win against a team that is no longer in existence, but can you seriously tell me any of those boys teams got anything out of playing them? I would question whether or not the Kicks girls got anything out of those games, never mind the boys.

If you play for a coach that wants to put their girls team in a league with boys teams, it is because they want the attention, not because it is the best thing for the girls.

Sho'Nuff wrote:

ForReal wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:There is literally nothing stopping a boys or girls team from playing up into U11 or U12 for that matter in any non NTX sanction league... Primetime is one of them.  You want faster speed of play, harder tackles, bigger hits... MOVE ON UP!

They will play up some.  But Solar 07 just thrashed very good 06 teams in the Woodlands.  http://texasrush.bonzidev.com/sam/standings/ss/schedule.php?containerID=Mjg3NDIyMA==

I highly doubt the 06 teams in PT (who aren't in LH, Plano or Arlington) would provide them and Kicks with real competition.  Heck, Solar and Kicks might be better off just playing a handful of the 07 top division teams instead.

I'm sure these '07s are fantastic, but don't act like beating third tier STX teams is noteworthy.

Perhaps you'll remember this is the same group of parents that pre-Surf Cup said they have "the best 07 team in the country with multiple future YNT players on it."
Great team (they really might be #1). Crazy parents.

I think I remember that, didn't they get 10 goals dropped on them in the quarter final?

slrsoccer wrote:

boilerjoe_96 wrote:

slrsoccer wrote:

jogobonito06 wrote:They have refused numerous girl's teams entry into the boy's leagues.  There is a long tradition of top girl's teams playing vs boys.  A few of these teams played boys as recently as this Fall.

What gives?

Because it is the right thing to do.  You can go back and look at any of the girls teams that play against boys and they typically get slaughtered by the best 5 or 6 boys teams.  It is absolutely a "lose-lose" for the boys and contrary to some of the girls coaches and parents, not good for their overall development.  

Also, I don't want to hear about not having the option to play up the last year before select.  The boys teams don't have that option either and if you are far and away the best boys team in an age group, you just have to deal with it at U10.

If you are talking about age groups below U10, simply play up against the older girls, they will give all the competition you need.

Right thing?  That your opinion(and/or one of your coaches).  I see both girl teams took out top 10ish boy opponents in the fall.  So both seem up for the task.

Kind of ironic a Solar Coach, helped keep the Solar Colvin/Springate team out. That's club team work!      

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, but I will bite.

You are wanting to play against the boys, why?  I can only assume that it is because you want better competition.  That is great for the girls but not for the number 8-15 ranked boys teams you will play and compete against.  If they beat you, it was just a bunch of girls, if they lose to you, it's, you guys lost to a bunch of girls...lose-lose situation.  When girls teams play the best 5 boys team in the same age group it is typically (with few exceptions) a complete waste of time for the boys.  Why should they have to play a non-competitive game just because a girls team wants to play better competition?  There are two sides to this, but you are only looking at one.

Discriminatory?  Are boys allowed to play in the girls leagues?  I have never seen that happen, are they being discriminated against?  Boys teams don't get to "play-up" against good teams a year older the year before they move to select to get better competition.  Why is it not a big deal for them, but a big deal for you?

If you want my honest opinion, there is not one girls team that should be playing against boys, none.  The only reason this happens is because of overzealous coaches and overzealous parents.  There maybe a girl, or two, or three that could be better served playing against boys, but not teams.

Go look at some of the results of the girls teams in the past that have done this.  They either 1) get pummeled 4,5,6-0 against the top boys teams or they pummel 4,5,6-0 the weaker boys teams.  Why not just play the other good girls teams in the same age group and have some closer games?

Let's look at Kicks 05 as an example, a team that just finished runners up in Vegas.  This is a great 05 girls team that played in UAL Spring 2016 and went 1 win against 7 losses with 8 goals scored and 50 given up. They did manage a win against a team that is no longer in existence, but can you seriously tell me any of those boys teams got anything out of playing them?  I would question whether or not the Kicks girls got anything out of those games, never mind the boys.

If you play for a coach that wants to put their girls team in a league with boys teams, it is because they want the attention, not because it is the best thing for the girls.

I think you make a good point and you were making me a believer. I just don't think you picked the correct team to justify your analogy. You were close.

AtThePitch wrote:No offense to the STX teams or solar, but Solar 07 was not playing the top 06 squads from STX.

This is kinda the point.

The teams in question here will play one team in league play that is competitive. They don't have the option to play the top teams in the next age group.

In the past, they have played in (and excelled in) boys leagues. With this no longer an option, they are relegated to playing bottom tier 06 teams (not dissimilar to the STX 06's from Houston).

Solar 07/Kicks 07 are not overzealous, nor are they trying to be trailblazers. They are just looking for competitive games that challenge their girls.

Ron Mexico wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:No offense to the STX teams or solar, but Solar 07 was not playing the top 06 squads from STX.

This is kinda the point.  

The teams in question here will play one team in league play that is competitive. They don't have the option to play the top teams in the next age group.  

In the past, they have played in (and excelled in) boys leagues.  With this no longer an option, they are relegated to playing bottom tier 06 teams (not dissimilar to the STX 06's from Houston).

Solar 07/Kicks 07 are not overzealous, nor are they trying to be trailblazers.  They are just looking for competitive games that challenge their girls.

Mr. Mexico... considering this same exact scenario plays itself out year, after year, after year... you would think these teams would be a little more proactive and find a solution to the matter.

I have seen it play out where an entire boys division just abandons a league over night because of girls teams being allowed to play. All of these coaches are aware it happens every single year.

AtThePitch wrote:

Ron Mexico wrote:

AtThePitch wrote:No offense to the STX teams or solar, but Solar 07 was not playing the top 06 squads from STX.

This is kinda the point.  

The teams in question here will play one team in league play that is competitive. They don't have the option to play the top teams in the next age group.  

In the past, they have played in (and excelled in) boys leagues.  With this no longer an option, they are relegated to playing bottom tier 06 teams (not dissimilar to the STX 06's from Houston).

Solar 07/Kicks 07 are not overzealous, nor are they trying to be trailblazers.  They are just looking for competitive games that challenge their girls.

Mr. Mexico... considering this same exact scenario plays itself out year, after year, after year... you would think these teams would be a little more proactive and find a solution to the matter.

I have seen it play out where an entire boys division just abandons a league over night because of girls teams being allowed to play.  All of these coaches are aware it happens every single year.

Perhaps it is the league/tournament directors who should find a solution to the matter. They are the ones taking the hit. Most teams chose a tournament for a reason. (i.e. the quality of field, location, time of year, fits into their schedule, whatever) If they abandon it then it messes up their plan just as much.

jogobonito06 wrote:There is a long tradition of top girl's teams playing vs boys.

There is just as long a tradition of the boys teams hating it. Just because a tradition has been around for a while, that does not always make it a good tradition.

Frankly, I found in most cases the top U10 girls teams would use PTS to get league games against boys and then rarely play in PTS tournaments when they were U10 or after they moved up to U11. So, PTS league would have one happy girls team and several unhappy boys teams. Then, none of these teams would play in tournaments.

Feel free to blame or thank me for this change as I pushed for it before leaving the competitive soccer tournament/league business in December.

Way to go dom. Now the solar team that's so much better than all the other 9 year old girls in Tx will not be able to become the future Uswnt players they should be. You should be ashamed of yourself for breaking their parents hearts.

League and tournament officials should also help shape up the reputation for NTX soccer. One small step is to help the top local talents.

I heard from a coach that Solar 07 team is very talented and some players could potentially represent NTX in the national team in a few years.

There is an unproved trend that NTX talents would fade away when they are getting older. This is one way you guys can help.

PowerKick wrote:League and tournament officials should also help shape up the reputation for NTX soccer. One small step is to help the top local talents.

I heard from a coach that Solar 07 team is very talents and some players could potentially represent NTX in the national team in a few years.

There is an unproved trend that NTX talents would fade away when they are getting older. This is one way you guys can help.

My apologies. I didn't grasp just how good these 9 year olds are...I'm sure they are the biggest kids on the field right now and can kick it the furthest. This is the problem with ntx..they don't push this type of dominance at 9 and younger.

The solution is simple (and playing against boys isn't the solution).

Let girls play up to whatever age group their skill levels dictate is appropriate. That's EXACTLY what US Soccer recommends. Actually, they not only recommend it, they borderline insist it's critical to the development of elite players. Why doesn't NTX agree?

Age cutoffs are arbitrary. Skills ain't. To best develop players, let them play wherever is appropriate for them to routinely experience both challenges and successes. Maybe a whole team plays up, or maybe just the girls for whom the greater challenges are absolutely necessary.

Problem solved.

timmyh wrote:The solution is simple (and playing against boys isn't the solution).  

Let girls play up to whatever age group their skill levels dictate is appropriate.  That's EXACTLY what US Soccer recommends.  Actually, they not only recommend it, they borderline insist it's critical to the development of elite players. Why doesn't NTX agree?

Age cutoffs are arbitrary.  Skills ain't.  To best develop players, let them play wherever is appropriate for them to routinely experience both challenges and successes.  Maybe a whole team plays up, or maybe just the girls for whom the greater challenges are absolutely necessary.

Problem solved.

Exactly, clear and right on the point !

Now we know it is the NTXSA to blame that NTX cannot produce enough national level players.

Here is a link for the board of directors, we can raise our voice now:
http://www.ntxsoccer.org/boardofdirectors/

PowerKick wrote:League and tournament officials should also help shape up the reputation for NTX soccer. One small step is to help the top local talents.

I heard from a coach that Solar 07 team is very talented and some players could potentially represent NTX in the national team in a few years.

There is an unproved trend that NTX talents would fade away when they are getting older. This is one way you guys can help.

I don't think any of us can remember NTX ever having a really good U10 team before, so I am a huge fan of what you're doing here as I'm sure it's been repeatedly proven that success at age 9 absolutely translates to future national team success. So, I'm super happy that your 3rd grader is still on the YNT fast track.

I don't have my team program, but I would like to keep following along and be informed. Would it be easier for you to list the girls that will be on the national team soon or is it quicker to just list the girls that won't be?

Can you also keep us all up to date with occasional game recaps? I know some people will come on here and say it's crazy and the Solar 07 parents are a bit over the top. Ignore the haters. They are probably just jealous of your girl's talent. Keep doing what you do.

I'm sure powerkick is way to humble to admit it, but I'd be willing to bet his/her dd is probably one of the top players on this superstar filled team.

timmyh wrote:

I don't think any of us can remember NTX ever having a really good U10 team before, so I am a huge fan of what you're doing here as I'm sure it's been repeatedly proven that success at age 9 absolutely translates to future national team success.  So, I'm super happy that your 3rd grader is still on the YNT fast track.

I don't have my team program, but I would like to keep following along and be informed.  Would it be easier for you to list the girls that will be on the national team soon or is it quicker to just list the girls that won't be?

Can you also keep us all up to date with occasional game recaps? I know some people will come on here and say it's crazy and the Solar 07 parents are a bit over the top.  Ignore the haters.  They are probably just jealous of your girl's talent.  Keep doing what you do.

Come on, why you seems so mad?

I am just a messenger with good intention. I know nothing about that team except played them before. My dd is an 06.