DA, ECNL, LH Solution

BigErn,

Since you have an inside working knowledge please share how many kids from current FCD 03 teams in LH made DA or ECNL for their own club?

My statement was simple, from what I have seen DA and ECNL are about recruiting kids. Will they develop once there sure, but there is no magical path from lower division teams at these clubs. DA and ECNL coaches are simply holding open auditions and 6 years of your DD playing at said club in LH doesn't mean much.

In regards to the smaller clubs statement, I just foresee these big clubs, especially FCD not spending much time or effort on girls in LH or at academy level. It's understandable to a point figuring the alphabet soup between D1 and DA now. Thus I also see an opportunity for smaller clubs to focus on developing girls.

2 of the 3 DA Clubs had players pre-register including current team and then grouped kids based solely on previous team. At one of the clubs tryouts coaches literallly never observed an entire group of 20+ girls. At least 2 of those 20 should of been grabbed up IF any coach ever bothered to look. Don't know if that happened or not.

One club watched all players and then pulled 1 kid at the first practice and 4-5 at the next practice.... only then were they asked what team currently on.

BigErn wrote: The majority of the Kicks Selecao squad is now the DFeeters 05 ECNL team.  In short, every top level 05 team this year at LH will be gone or has been picked apart due to the shift upwards with the addition of the DA at the Big 3.

Given all of this information, what exactly are you waiting to see?

I know nothing much about 05s. Zizou said NTX talent was consolidating into 3 clubs. I'm saying I'll believe it when I see it. Even if it did happen, the problem with all these regional leagues is when NTX truly consolidates, the only consistently solid competition within driving distance are other consolidated teams from NTX. So consolidate to 3...then what? Eat a bunch of travel costs to play teams that arent even as strong as teams across town? Lots of very positive things about DA I'm excited to see play out...fewer local clubs participating is not one of them.

ElClassico wrote:BigErn,

Since you have an inside working knowledge please share how many kids from current FCD 03 teams in LH made DA or ECNL for their own club?

My statement was simple, from what I have seen DA and ECNL are about recruiting kids. Will they develop once there sure, but there is no magical path from lower division teams at these clubs. DA and ECNL coaches are simply holding open auditions and 6 years of your DD playing at said club in LH doesn't mean much.

In regards to the smaller clubs statement, I just foresee these big clubs, especially FCD not spending much time or effort on girls in LH or at academy level. It's understandable to a point figuring the alphabet soup between D1 and DA now. Thus I also see an opportunity for smaller clubs to focus on developing girls.

Thanks a bunch for your reply Sir --

Since you have an inside working knowledge please share how many kids from current FCD 03 teams in LH made DA or ECNL for their own club?  

Sure.  I know of at least 6 from FCD and another 2 from Solar non ECNL teams that were offered an FCD 03 ECNL spot.

My statement was simple, from what I have seen DA and ECNL are about recruiting kids. Will they develop once there sure, but there is no magical path from lower division teams at these clubs. DA and ECNL coaches are simply holding open auditions and 6 years of your DD playing at said club in LH doesn't mean much.

Ummm ... Of course it's about recruiting -- Recruitment is very literally what tryout season is about and how the formation of new teams come to be.  And of course there's no "magical path" ... Surely no one ever told you of such a thing?  For the most part, the girls playing at the LH level (especially at FCD in the 03 'colors' group), don't have the talent and/or drive it takes to make an ECNL roster, much less the DA.  

In regards to the smaller clubs statement, I just foresee these big clubs, especially FCD not spending much time or effort on girls in LH or at academy level. It's understandable to a point figuring the alphabet soup between D1 and DA now. Thus I also see an opportunity for smaller clubs to focus on developing girls.

Right.  This is exactly what I've/we've been saying/arguing for the past year ... They really don't.  The DOC's at FCD, Solar and Texans, don't spend a single minute of thought on teams playing in LH or lower at U14 (now U13) and older.  I'd disagree, however, about the U10 and younger Youth Academy sides ... they're always looking to stockpile elite talent in those age groups.

The "developing", "development", "developmental" thing really irks me for some reason.  It's really very overused and misunderstand by most 'soccer dads' out there.  "Development" happens every time a kid touches a ball ... whether it be at home, in training, or in match play.  The higher the quality + frequency of each of those three arenas coupled with a kid that has it going between the ears as well = most developed kids.  These are the kids that you'll see primarily making up the DA squads going forward ... Regardless of where they come from.

HomeStretch wrote:

BigErn wrote: The majority of the Kicks Selecao squad is now the DFeeters 05 ECNL team.  In short, every top level 05 team this year at LH will be gone or has been picked apart due to the shift upwards with the addition of the DA at the Big 3.

Given all of this information, what exactly are you waiting to see?

I know nothing much about 05s. Zizou said NTX talent was consolidating into 3 clubs. I'm saying I'll believe it when I see it. Even if it did happen, the problem with all these regional leagues is when NTX truly consolidates, the only consistently solid competition within driving distance are other consolidated teams from NTX. So consolidate to 3...then what? Eat a bunch of travel costs to play teams that arent even as strong as teams across town? Lots of very positive things about DA I'm excited to see play out...fewer local clubs participating is not one of them.

Gotcha Homestretch -- I understand your misunderstanding and grant you ... It isn't an easy concept to grasp.

As you may (or may not) be aware of, the NTX competitive youth soccer landscape has been a mess for a couple of decades ... Far too many clubs with way to many ideals of their own and far too many under qualified coaches.  Those markets that have consistently and successfully produced the highest level of talent, both team wise and individually, have been those that are more consolidated/properly governed/on the same page.  In coming from one of those environments myself, I've/we've argued that the consolidation of talent is paramount to the betterment of the NTX market ... Not only to produce better teams, but better players.  Elite level players participating in environments with like skilled/minded kids grow exponentially compared to those kids with the same talent dominating those with lesser talent growing gradually or not at all -- CONSOLIDATION Sir!

It seems that you are referring to the LH and/or Champion's League level when contending that the best comp is in our backyard.  While that may be true there, it certainly hasn't been/will not the case when it comes to the ECNL, and especially the DA, level going forward.  You mentioned you don't have a lot of 05 knowledge so let's go with the 04s ... Next year the three local DA teams (and maybe the Sting ECNL side) will all be on another level above any of the other 100+ 04 teams in DFW.  They'll play the two other teams locally, but the majority of their competition will come from those regional and national DA sides that have themselves consolidated talent from their areas.  This is the new reality and frankly, USSF is getting it right.

unfortunately this statement has been repeated many many many times. This post needs to be placed on the home page of this site for all to read and sign off on before being able to register. Please remember their is a level of soccer in NTX for your DD to compete at. It just might not be where your ego or pocketbook can provide.

Ok bigem....lets start at the top. What evidence do you have to support the claim NTX soccer was a "mess" for decades. I have evidence NTX was the #2 market for girls soccer based on college commits prior to rise of ecnl. Show me your proofs and i will show mine. Just making anecdotal claims is not enough. Also highly interested in knowing which market you came from you imply works better than NTX.

BigErn - "Regardless of where they came from, the girls were given 8 days of opportunity to show the coaches what they can do ... "

abc000 wrote:2 of the 3 DA Clubs had players pre-register including current team and then grouped kids based solely on previous team.  At one of the clubs tryouts coaches literallly never observed an entire group of 20+ girls.  At least 2 of those 20 should of been grabbed up IF any coach ever bothered to look.  Don't know if that happened or not.

One club watched all players  and then pulled 1 kid at the first practice and 4-5 at the next practice.... only then were they asked what team currently on.  I'm guessing this was NOT FCD.

Why am I not surprised that BigE didn't respond to this post?  



"I know of at least 6 from FCD and another 2 from Solar non ECNL teams that were offered an FCD 03 ECNL spot."

You KNOW at least 6 from FCD that were offered an FCD 03 spot?  Seriously?  Given the fact that FCD didn't have any D1 caliber teams, 6 kids from FCD LHGCL D2, D3 and relegated teams made ECNL?

Either you are full of shit, or maybe this questions whether grouping kids due to their current team is the best approach to identify talent.  El Classico, it all comes down to perception and entitlement.  I mean, if you are on an ECNL or JDL team (especially at FCD), you must already have established yourself as one of the best, right?

Heck, FCD had arguably the #1 and #2 04 teams in North Texas (well, at least that is what someone had asserted earlier this year).  Must not say much about 04 NTX soccer given the #2 team's performance last weekend against an 03 team a hair away from facing re-qualification.

It's all marketing bullshiz to make more money and the suckas keep coming. Yea Suzy you got potential and can pay your fees.

HomeStretch wrote:Ok bigem....lets start at the top. What evidence do you have to support the claim NTX soccer was a "mess" for decades. I have evidence NTX was the #2 market for girls soccer based on college commits prior to rise of ecnl. Show me your proofs and i will show mine. Just making anecdotal claims is not enough. Also highly interested in knowing which market you came from you imply works better than NTX.

NTX and LHGCL in its prime were dominated by four clubs. Sting, Solar, Texans, and FCD. Consolidated, past 10-15 years parents,players coaches, that were unsatified with their current situation and the un willingness to compete simply moved and moved and moved until they got what little Susie wanted.

ECNL has created a national recruiting platform for players. This has allowed NTX players and college coaches the ability to recruit outside our region.

Consolidation is being pushed by US Soccer. DA will be more about consolidating the top talent and teaching them under one developmental platform.

LHGCL, ECNL, DA will give all players and parent choices on the level that fits their child and families level of commitment.

wazup wrote:BigErn - "Regardless of where they came from, the girls were given 8 days of opportunity to show the coaches what they can do ... "

abc000 wrote:2 of the 3 DA Clubs had players pre-register including current team and then grouped kids based solely on previous team.  At one of the clubs tryouts coaches literallly never observed an entire group of 20+ girls.  At least 2 of those 20 should of been grabbed up IF any coach ever bothered to look.  Don't know if that happened or not.

One club watched all players  and then pulled 1 kid at the first practice and 4-5 at the next practice.... only then were they asked what team currently on.  I'm guessing this was NOT FCD.

Why am I not surprised that BigE didn't respond to this post?  



"I know of at least 6 from FCD and another 2 from Solar non ECNL teams that were offered an FCD 03 ECNL spot."

You KNOW at least 6 from FCD that were offered an FCD 03 spot?  Seriously?  Given the fact that FCD didn't have any D1 caliber teams, 6 kids from FCD LHGCL D2, D3 and relegated teams made ECNL?

Either you are full of shit, or maybe this questions whether grouping kids due to their current team is the best approach to identify talent.  El Classico, it all comes down to perception and entitlement.  I mean, if you are on an ECNL or JDL team (especially at FCD), you must already have established yourself as one of the best, right?

Heck, FCD had arguably the #1 and #2 04 teams in North Texas (well, at least that is what someone had asserted earlier this year).  Must not say much about 04 NTX soccer given the #2 team's performance last weekend against an 03 team a hair away from facing re-qualification.

Wazups morning routine: wake up..eat...brush teeth...8itch slap big e....go to work...repeat

Zizou wrote:

NTX and LHGCL in its prime were dominated by four clubs. Sting, Solar, Texans, and FCD. Consolidated, past 10-15 years parents,players coaches, that were unsatified with their current situation and the un willingness to compete simply moved and moved and moved until they got what little Susie wanted.

ECNL has created a national recruiting platform for players. This has allowed NTX players and college coaches the ability to recruit outside our region.

Consolidation is being pushed by US Soccer. DA will be more about consolidating the top talent and teaching them under one developmental platform.

LHGCL, ECNL, DA will give all players and parent choices on the level that fits their child and families level of commitment.

When LHGCL was truly in it's prime, Hassan was still at Storm, Solar was 99% boys and FCD didn't even exist. 1 out of 4 ain't bad....

that depend on when you consider LHGCL to have been in its prime. Being the only gig in town with no competition is not what I would consider prime, but to prove my point all top players consolidated into one.

soccerjack wrote:

wazup wrote:BigErn - "Regardless of where they came from, the girls were given 8 days of opportunity to show the coaches what they can do ... "

abc000 wrote:2 of the 3 DA Clubs had players pre-register including current team and then grouped kids based solely on previous team.  At one of the clubs tryouts coaches literallly never observed an entire group of 20+ girls.  At least 2 of those 20 should of been grabbed up IF any coach ever bothered to look.  Don't know if that happened or not.

One club watched all players  and then pulled 1 kid at the first practice and 4-5 at the next practice.... only then were they asked what team currently on.  I'm guessing this was NOT FCD.

Why am I not surprised that BigE didn't respond to this post?  



"I know of at least 6 from FCD and another 2 from Solar non ECNL teams that were offered an FCD 03 ECNL spot."

You KNOW at least 6 from FCD that were offered an FCD 03 spot?  Seriously?  Given the fact that FCD didn't have any D1 caliber teams, 6 kids from FCD LHGCL D2, D3 and relegated teams made ECNL?

Either you are full of shit, or maybe this questions whether grouping kids due to their current team is the best approach to identify talent.  El Classico, it all comes down to perception and entitlement.  I mean, if you are on an ECNL or JDL team (especially at FCD), you must already have established yourself as one of the best, right?

Heck, FCD had arguably the #1 and #2 04 teams in North Texas (well, at least that is what someone had asserted earlier this year).  Must not say much about 04 NTX soccer given the #2 team's performance last weekend against an 03 team a hair away from facing re-qualification.

Wazups morning routine:  wake up..eat...brush teeth...8itch slap big e....go to work...repeat

more like: wake up ... shower ... brush teeth ... go to work ... get coffee ... 8itchslap bige ... wait for non-response

Zizou wrote:

HomeStretch wrote:Ok bigem....lets start at the top. What evidence do you have to support the claim NTX soccer was a "mess" for decades. I have evidence NTX was the #2 market for girls soccer based on college commits prior to rise of ecnl. Show me your proofs and i will show mine. Just making anecdotal claims is not enough. Also highly interested in knowing which market you came from you imply works better than NTX.

NTX and LHGCL in its prime were dominated by four clubs. Sting, Solar, Texans, and FCD. Consolidated, past 10-15 years parents,players coaches, that were unsatified with their current situation and the un willingness to compete simply moved and moved and moved until they got what little Susie wanted.

ECNL has created a national recruiting platform for players. This has allowed NTX players and college coaches the ability to recruit outside our region.

Consolidation is being pushed by US Soccer. DA will be more about consolidating the top talent and teaching them under one developmental platform.

LHGCL, ECNL, DA will give all players and parent choices on the level that fits their child and families level of commitment.

Lots of opinion with little basis on historical reality there zizou. Dfeeters was a much bigger factor than FCD when NTX was in its prime and over last 15 years. FCD has only recently become a player on the girls side.

Secondly, USSF is pushing consolidation precisely because ECNL effectively diluted competition at the top level. Pre ECNL there was only ONE way to get a recruiting age team a lot of eyeballs... you had to be good.  There were politics of course but no club had a guaranteed entry into the top showcases or guaranteed tickets to nationals. This required top clubs to aggregate talent because otherwise they would be staying home. There were already national recruiting platforms...ecnl just made it easier for college coaches to see more talent  from smaller market areas with fewer stops, and it gave certain clubs market advantage since they no longer had to field good teams to be guaranteed entry to showcases. Were it not for ECNL dfeeters would've folded or merged by now because NTX was an open competitive market and they were not keeping up last 5 years or so. ECNL dilution maintained their ability to survive.

Vast majority of NTX players commit to regional schools within driving distance. This was true prior to ecnl and remains true today and will likely be true post DA. I'm all for DA, but lets not act like it's a silver bullet or  rewrite history in our attempts to sell it.

Being the only game in town is exactly why it was in it's prime then. There was no D2 or D3. Clubs did not control byes. Relegation was real. By U15 there was only room for 6 teams per age group. (Recruiting didn't start in 8th grade then)

Consolidation was organic. Had to be since you needed to be 1-2 in the league to get into the top bracket at the best showcases.

LHGCL has been weak since US Club arrived. Despite what we in NTX like to think, there is a finite talent pool.

I think we agree that consolidation of talent is a good thing. Just tossing a little history into the mix to the posters that don't seem to know that LHGCL was legitimately one of the Top 2 leagues in the Nation and regularly put kids into NT programs and Top D1 sides.

Gunner9 wrote:Being the only game in town is exactly why it was in it's prime then.  There was no D2 or D3.  Clubs did not control byes.  Relegation was real.  By U15 there was only room for 6 teams per age group.  (Recruiting didn't start in 8th grade then)

Consolidation was organic.  Had to be since you needed to be 1-2 in the league to get into the top bracket at the best showcases.  

LHGCL has been weak since US Club arrived.  Despite what we in NTX like to think, there is a finite talent pool.

I think we agree that consolidation of talent is a good thing.  Just tossing a little history into the mix to the posters that don't seem to know that LHGCL was legitimately one of the Top 2 leagues in the Nation and regularly put kids into NT programs and Top D1 sides.

That's why it had to be destroyed so the clubs could consolidate power...I mean talent...I mean money.

Gunner9 wrote:Despite what we in NTX like to think, there is a finite talent pool.

Can you take a shot at quantifying it? How many truly elite players per agegroup?

Gunner9 wrote:Being the only game in town is exactly why it was in it's prime then.  There was no D2 or D3.  Clubs did not control byes.  Relegation was real.  By U15 there was only room for 6 teams per age group.  (Recruiting didn't start in 8th grade then)

Consolidation was organic.  Had to be since you needed to be 1-2 in the league to get into the top bracket at the best showcases.  

LHGCL has been weak since US Club arrived.  Despite what we in NTX like to think, there is a finite talent pool.

I think we agree that consolidation of talent is a good thing.  Just tossing a little history into the mix to the posters that don't seem to know that LHGCL was legitimately one of the Top 2 leagues in the Nation and regularly put kids into NT programs and Top D1 sides.

Thank You...needed one of the old heads to chime in and help confirm what I surmised from looking at the #s. Old school NTX had many classes with players representing top college sides competing for ncaa championships. Notre Dame, Stanford, UNC, UCLA all at one time had NTX products prominently featured in line up. The record books show NTX youth winning national championships [at recruiting age years...not ulittles]...with regularity...until it abruptly stopped with the 98s...coincidentally 98s were first class with their complete build up in ECNL era. NTX has been a mess for decades is fake news. NTX has been a mess last few years as USSF sat by while US Club and USYS waged war.

Sho'Nuff wrote:

Gunner9 wrote:Despite what we in NTX like to think, there is a finite talent pool.

Can you take a shot at quantifying it? How many truly elite players per agegroup?

Depends on what you define as truly elite, but I'll take a stab at it without any data to back it up and see if HomeStretch and Gunner9 shoot me down...

Per age group in NTX:

YNT pool players: <5
Impact players at NCAA D1 Tournament qualifying schools:  <10
Multi-year starters at NCAA D1 Programs:  <25

How far off am I???

Yes, those national championship teams had a consolidation of all the talent. Like in the old days consolidating talent will improve results.

It seams we have seen in the last few years more representation of players on the our youth national teams. At all the age groups.

Last, recruiting made easier is showcasing NTX talent a moving more girls out of the region into more d-1,d-2, d-3 opportunities.

Ummmm, I will say it is working.

bwgophers wrote:

Sho'Nuff wrote:

Gunner9 wrote:Despite what we in NTX like to think, there is a finite talent pool.

Can you take a shot at quantifying it? How many truly elite players per agegroup?

Depends on what you define as truly elite, but I'll take a stab at it without any data to back it up and see if HomeStretch and Gunner9 shoot me down...

Per age group in NTX:

YNT pool players: <5
Impact players at NCAA D1 Tournament qualifying schools:  <10
Multi-year starters at NCAA D1 Programs:  <25

How far off am I???

Haha...I wasn't going to touch it since 'truly elite' is pretty subjective. However, I'll roll with BW's numbers, especially on the first two.

I think the third might be a bit low if you include mid-majors and such. But not by much.

Quick look / observation YNT players from NTX
U15 - 2
U16 - 2
U17 - 2
U18 - 1
U19 - 1
Total = 8 (all Solar and FCD I believe)

compared to...

Tophat SC = 8
SoCal Blues = 6
Michigan Hawks = 7
Surf = 6

Guess you can look at it a few ways:
A. Talent isn't as good in NTX as we think.
B. Development isn't as good in NTX as we think.
C. Talent is too spread out.
D. YNT ignores NTX
E. NTX coaches don't work well with YNT coaches / scouts.

wazup wrote:BigErn - "Regardless of where they came from, the girls were given 8 days of opportunity to show the coaches what they can do ... "

abc000 wrote:2 of the 3 DA Clubs had players pre-register including current team and then grouped kids based solely on previous team.  At one of the clubs tryouts coaches literallly never observed an entire group of 20+ girls.  At least 2 of those 20 should of been grabbed up IF any coach ever bothered to look.  Don't know if that happened or not.

One club watched all players  and then pulled 1 kid at the first practice and 4-5 at the next practice.... only then were they asked what team currently on.  I'm guessing this was NOT FCD.

Why am I not surprised that BigE didn't respond to this post?  



"I know of at least 6 from FCD and another 2 from Solar non ECNL teams that were offered an FCD 03 ECNL spot."

You KNOW at least 6 from FCD that were offered an FCD 03 spot?  Seriously?  Given the fact that FCD didn't have any D1 caliber teams, 6 kids from FCD LHGCL D2, D3 and relegated teams made ECNL?

Either you are full of shit, or maybe this questions whether grouping kids due to their current team is the best approach to identify talent.  El Classico, it all comes down to perception and entitlement.  I mean, if you are on an ECNL or JDL team (especially at FCD), you must already have established yourself as one of the best, right?

Heck, FCD had arguably the #1 and #2 04 teams in North Texas (well, at least that is what someone had asserted earlier this year).  Must not say much about 04 NTX soccer given the #2 team's performance last weekend against an 03 team a hair away from facing re-qualification.

Wazup Wazup --

While nothing in this post, nor the post from abc000 you've referenced, warrants a response, I have a few minutes to waste so I'll retort, reiterate, repeat for your reading pleasure ...

Each kid did in fact have 8 days (Mon-Thur 5/1-5/4, Mon-Thur 5/8-5/11) of opportunity to tryout for the ECNL/DA teams if they so chose to at both FCD and Solar ... those dates/times/locations were published in multiple mediums including on this forum.  Some received offers after the first day, and some took advantage of all 8 days before they got an offer.

abc000's take on "one of the club's tryouts" just wasn't credible enough for any of us to respond to.  Mentioning that none of the coaches even looked at a group over a 1.5 period is silly.  He then second guessed + contradicted himself by writing "Don't know if that happened or not" and "then pulled 1 kid at the first practice and 4-5 at the next practice".  And quite conversely to his contention that one of the lower groups wasn't looked at, I witnessed the opposite at both FCD and Solar ... The coaches already new what they had with the top group so rarely watched them at all.

Regarding non ECNL FCD 03 kids that were offered spots on next year's 03 ECNL team ... make that 7 from FCD + the 2 from Solar teams that were offered (1 of those was offered a DA spot).  While the initial groups are typically based on where the kids come from, as the day/week goes on, standout kids are identified and moved to other groups to observe.  And yes ... I'd say that if you've previously won a spot on an ECNL or JDL team at either FCD, Solar, Texans or Sting, that you've established yourself as worthy of an initial top group in tryout scenarios.

BTW ... I love the 8itch Slap reference -- good stuff Sir.

db10 wrote:Quick look / observation YNT players from NTX
U15 - 2
U16 - 2
U17 - 2
U18 - 1
U19 - 1
Total = 8 (all Solar and FCD I believe)

Kicks has 1, she was just in Italy w U17s.

Big Ern,

So you spent 16 days in May at both FCD and Solar simultaneously? Impressive. May I ask from where are you getting your FCD numbers? As far as I have seen, and heard first hand, the girls currently in LH are being placed in a pool to tryout for those same LH teams. I also have not heard of anyone from the D1 or the D2 club getting an ECNL spot (I may be wrong but I think only a few actually tried out more than a day or so) Hopefully I'm wrong and they did get the call up as it would be great for those girls after such a tough season.