State Cup

Pele98 wrote:

ColtMcVince wrote:My issue is not really that someone used them or didn’t and whether it’s fair or not.  I just think it’s strange that the rules allow it.  The only way to play in the tournament is through league ‘qualification’ but you don’t have to use that same team during the tournament.  Roster size is allowed at over 20 (I think) yet only 9 of the league roster must be used.  That allows for an entire new/different team to be on the field if one team so chooses.  That goes a little beyond CPP.  

Yes, I witnessed first hand and can confirm this actually happened.  The team we played was not the team we played during league play.  

No dog in the bone fight, but somehow it is naïve to think that Clubs or Teams go into State Cup for development.  Who does that? 
It is State Cup. 
You go in to win and get all the glory regardless if you get knocked out in Regionals or not.  You play league games for development and then at the end of the soccer year you bring your big guns (and lady luck) and go win State Cup.

I watched less than 10-minutes of the D'Feeters vs Liverpool game.  I thought Liverpool came to PLAY and clearly Feet came to WIN.

Missed the Texans vs Feet in Final, change of game time messed that one up.   Both of these teams were there to WIN.

I see what you did there.
You used BOLD and CAPS.
I, for one, am now convinced.

So by your account 98, AF and his LPE kids entered this tourney to develop rather than play to win?  Hmmm ... interesting?

Remember boys ... The vast majority of development in these kids occurs in team training, working on their own and watching the game, rather than in the matches themselves.

A gun is different than an entire arsenal. Again my contention is not that it happens, it’s the fact that you are allowed a completely different roster than what was used to qualify for the thing.

It would be like Ole Miss qualifying for the BCS championship then sending the Patriots to play in the game. Makes zero sense.

I’m a broken record. I think my point has been made.

Big Ern wrote:So by your account 98, AF and his LPE kids entered this tourney to develop rather than play to win?  Hmmm ... interesting?

Remember boys ... The vast majority of development in these kids occurs in team training, working on their own and watching the game, rather than in the matches themselves.

BigE, I've seen you make this point before, and I hope it's true. However, in my own experience with my own dd and her team, I've also seen significant improvement among individual players and overall team performance directly connected to increased game experience. Maybe it's more significant at the younger ages than by the time they get to U-13. Again, I hope you're right because then I could relax more about my own dd's game play experience and time on the field. It may also free up more weekend days for me to do other things besides driving all over the metro to stand on sidelines.

ColtMcVince wrote:A gun is different than an entire arsenal.  Again my contention is not that it happens, it’s the fact that you are allowed a completely different roster than what was used to qualify for the thing.  

It would be like Ole Miss qualifying for the BCS championship then sending the Patriots to play in the game.  Makes zero sense.

I’m a broken record.  I think my point has been made.

I hear you @Colt and may be I sympathize with you, just a tiny bit.  The fact still remains, State Cup is not a reward for doing good in league.  That is a totally new ball game.

As stated, no dog in the fight.  I know a couple of parents in Texans and Feet teams, fine people but vicious when it comes to trophies.....and State Cup is one of them.

I also heard that Texans brought 9 top 05 ECNL players to combine with 9 top 06 players for this State Cup and used their 05 ECNL backup goalie.  Feet brought 13 - 14 ECNL players.

I think the U13 D1 LHGCL winner Liverpool lost this State Cup before they even kicked a ball, thanks to NTX Soccer Assoc.

The power of the pool trumps all. That was the whole project design when the clubs ran soccer in NTX. Teams are monopoly money.

Pele98 wrote:

ColtMcVince wrote:A gun is different than an entire arsenal.  Again my contention is not that it happens, it’s the fact that you are allowed a completely different roster than what was used to qualify for the thing.  

It would be like Ole Miss qualifying for the BCS championship then sending the Patriots to play in the game.  Makes zero sense.

I’m a broken record.  I think my point has been made.

I hear you @Colt and may be I sympathize with you, just a tiny bit.  The fact still remains, State Cup is not a reward for doing good in league.  That is a totally new ball game.

As stated, no dog in the fight.  I know a couple of parents in Texans and Feet teams, fine people but vicious when it comes to trophies.....and State Cup is one of them.

I also heard that Texans brought 9 top 05 ECNL players to combine with 9 top 06 players for this State Cup and used their 05 ECNL backup goalie.  Feet brought 13 - 14 ECNL players.

I think the U13 D1 LHGCL winner Liverpool lost this State Cup before they even kicked a ball, thanks to NTX Soccer Assoc.

Agreed

Then they should stop with the pretense that it IS league related and quit requiring league play to enter State Cup.

Since players are representing clubs and not teams, then just allow for "Solar I", "Solar II", etc.

CardinalRule wrote:Lewi9, The State tournament doesn't seed the teams.  The tournament is responsible for the admission of teams, not seeding them.  Seeding is done amongst the team managers in a collective meeting.  The top LH team is typically responsible for chairing the meeting.

OLJW, All the hand wringing on this board about the guest playing from big clubs at State Cup, LH etc., yet it will have zero effect on the turnout at FCD, Solar or Texan JDL/ECNL/Pool tryouts this season.  Where is the backlash or consequences?  Are you going to move your daughter away from a big club and over to an independent club?

Zero effect? Based on past experience I 100% disagree. I can point you to a specific team that used the exact same strategy to win State Cup last year. After State Cup they lost at Regionals and that team never played another game. That’s an effect. People that have been around NTX soccer for 2, 3 or 4 years know what goes on. Standards of acceptable behavior for NTX soccer Coaches are pretty low, but they aren’t so low that a Coach can mess over his entire team in MAY and have everybody forget about it by June. You say they can, I say they can’t. We’ll see soon enough.

ColtMcVince wrote:So, what’s the deal with State Cup?  You have to be a part of a league (Lake Highlands in this case) to play in it, but you don’t have to use the players from the team in that league for games in the tournament.  Case in point.  Liverpool loses 3-0 to the ‘team’ that finished 2nd to last in the fall LH season.  The same LP team that wins the league going away.  Yeah yeah, all you CPP guys will come out in full Dribble...I just think it’s odd that in order to be in the thing you have to play in the league yet you don’t have to use those players in the tournament itself.  

The old fashioned concept of a 'Team or fixed roster across time' in club soccer went by the wayside at certain levels in certain clubs long ago.

It has been supplanted by the concepts of open rosters, pool players, club pass players, etc.

Team only exists in the notion of a slot in a league where the club can put a group of girls to play today's game.

It is up to the club/coach to determine how they want to go about determining who is on the team on any given day and what roster consistency they may choose to maintain.

OLJW, I know the team that you are referring, and I can give you a whole lot more examples of teams that used 3-8 guest players last year at state cup.  All of them didn't make the finals, and each of them had a full roster come signing day in July.  Parent's look at record and results when they check out new teams.  A coaches credentials, job stability and commitment to the players are secondary.  Let's compare notes in July.

Let’s do that. How are we defining success? Does a full roster equal success or do they need to be successful on the field?

The pool will always beat the roster of any given team. The deck is stacked. Throw out all the numbers.

Speaking as one of teams "victimized".... We weren't victims; we were the benefactors. The only way our girls get better is, in fact, to play against that kind of speed and skill.

To quote our coach Kenneth Penn in his comments to our girls before many of our games this spring - "Bring them on. They can bring whoever they want. I would still choose all of you. Go show them who you are."

The rules are what they are - doesn't matter leagues or tournaments. Just put your kids in the situation that you feel benefits them the most in their lives and let the chips fall.

Congrats to the Dallas Texans. Their 11 beat our 11. We'll be back.

LOL. How cool would it have been to be the “benefactor” of a trip to North Carolina to play the best teams around as opposed to just one ‘team’ on a Saturday afternoon at UTD? Your team could have “benefit” at least 3 times as much...

ColtMcVince wrote:LOL.  How cool would it have been to be the “benefactor” of a trip to North Carolina to play the best teams around as opposed to just one ‘team’ on a Saturday afternoon at UTD?  Your team could have “benefit” at least 3 times as much...

Would it also be cool for them to play one of the best teams around on a Saturday morning at Richland College? Asking for a friend.

Everyone knows the CPP rules don't make much sense and the deck gets stacked.. My DD team always plays straight up and never uses a CPP unless we only have 10 to play. In our time with my DD team we have only used CPP 1 time and we used a player from a sister team that was not ECNL.

This being said, we always play teams that load up the bus with CPP when they must have a win for (pick a reason). Sometimes we tie/get a win and sometimes we get our butts handed to us. The way our girls and team culture look at is, our opponent respects the hell out of our girls by bringing in the ringers and you damn sure better play your best soccer so when the game is over no matte the score the CPP girls will remember how hard that game was and will "Remember the Titans".

Our girls don't care if the opponent brings Rapino, Heath, Morgan and Pugh.. They put on their cleats same as our girls and our girls are gonna bring it with everything they have. It we lose 10-0 then it just means we need to get better.

KeeperCommander wrote:

ColtMcVince wrote:LOL.  How cool would it have been to be the “benefactor” of a trip to North Carolina to play the best teams around as opposed to just one ‘team’ on a Saturday afternoon at UTD?  Your team could have “benefit” at least 3 times as much...

Would it also be cool for them to play one of the best teams around on a Saturday morning at Richland College? Asking for a friend.

"Our girls don't care if the opponent brings Rapino, Heath, Morgan and Pugh.. They put on their cleats same as our girls and our girls are gonna bring it with everything they have. It we lose 10-0 then it just means we need to get better." -TxFutbol



Like I said -- bring 'em on. Good posts!

05gpennmanager wrote:Speaking as one of teams "victimized"....  We weren't victims; we were the benefactors.  The only way our girls get better is, in fact, to play against that kind of speed and skill.  

To quote our coach Kenneth Penn in his comments to our girls before many of our games this spring - "Bring them on.  They can bring whoever they want.  I would still choose all of you.  Go show them who you are."

The rules are what they are - doesn't matter leagues or tournaments.  Just put your kids in the situation that you feel benefits them the most in their lives and let the chips fall.

Congrats to the Dallas Texans.  Their 11 beat our 11.  We'll be back.

kudos. Class personified. No sarcasm.
How rare is it to get a response like the one above. Very. Speaks volumes about the character of the club and coach to have this perspective. All this whining about who brought who into play against my DD is frankly embarrassing. Show up and play.

ColtMcVince wrote:So, what’s the deal with State Cup?  You have to be a part of a league (Lake Highlands in this case) to play in it, but you don’t have to use the players from the team in that league for games in the tournament.  Case in point.  Liverpool loses 3-0 to the ‘team’ that finished 2nd to last in the fall LH season.  The same LP team that wins the league going away.  Yeah yeah, all you CPP guys will come out in full Dribble...I just think it’s odd that in order to be in the thing you have to play in the league yet you don’t have to use those players in the tournament itself.  

So Colt, how did Liverpool Elite get into Regionals?  Someone mentioned that LPE 05G AF are NC-bound for Regionals.  Did they win the appeal against Feet Kicks?

We finished third in SRPL to the two Oklahoma energy teams who decided to take one team only, which makes sense for them and in turn helped us as the top two finishers got a spot into regionals. (Next year, I believe it’s only the top team that qualifies for regionals through SRPL, as they switch it with another region year after year (they’ll send 1 we send 2)).

So who is going to North Carolina? I'm so confused reading this thread...LOL

Will we see the Liverpool team we faced in SRPL or will it have a different roster? Will we see the 06 DTS team that is full of 06's or is it going to be full of 05's? Does anyone know or is it all a guess?

ColtMcVince wrote:My issue is not really that someone used them or didn’t and whether it’s fair or not.  I just think it’s strange that the rules allow it.  The only way to play in the tournament is through league ‘qualification’ but you don’t have to use that same team during the tournament.  Roster size is allowed at over 20 (I think) yet only 9 of the league roster must be used.  That allows for an entire new/different team to be on the field if one team so chooses.  That goes a little beyond CPP.  

Yes, I witnessed first hand and can confirm this actually happened.  The team we played was not the team we played during league play.  

Right, wrong, or indifferent, the reason it is allowed is quite clear...
NTX wants the team representing it to go on and win Regionals, so it wants the best team possible moving forward thus the rules allow for the "best possible team" to be (newly) formed so that they have the best chance of bringing glory to the association.
The same thing happens after Regionals. Rosters can be completely reformed, with the same hope that the best possible team from the Region will go on and win Nationals.

OED you will see both and good luck to you!

Thanks! Good luck to you and safe travels! Should be a positive experience for us all...

Just faced the Dallas Texans 06 in the final game of pool play in North Carolina. Really close, physical game. Texans score on a late free kick to win 1-0. We both advance to quarters. I have a feeling we might be facing each other in the finals.

OkieEnergyDad wrote:Just faced the Dallas Texans 06 in the final game of pool play in North Carolina.  Really close, physical game.  Texans score on a late free kick to win 1-0.  We both advance to quarters.  I have a feeling we might be facing each other in the finals.  

Good job by the 05's. Are the OK Energy teams in Greensboro the teams that will be representing DA next year?