Re: National Rankings

by Guest 31/08/19, 07:44 pm

by Guest 01/09/19, 09:47 am

My turn and I have a couple of things to say here...

YSR is biased from the very beginning of rankings and here is how it happens. All rankings have to start some where. This is simply done by picking a team from the start of the U10 season and starts from there. If owner of YSR picks SoCal team “A” and starts them at PI of 25.0, all indexes are adjusted based on that team. By contrast, if owner of YSR takes team “B” from North Texas and starts them at 24.0 they already start behind SoCal.

If anyone has paid attention, there was a time early last year when a small team “Sacham Black” from New York was #1 for a month. There was also a week when some Wisconsin teams were #1. Obviously the team had the wrong index number put in from the start.

Pretty much the owner has decided SoCal starts the highest. I have no idea by how much. Here is the craziest part...if owner does not not like results, he/she can simply go back and change the PI of start team to get desired results. Lastly, owner lives in Arizona.

This is proof of how the system begins. Unfortunately it rolls over for years as you can see through older groups.

by Guest 01/09/19, 10:05 am

To add to the debate, Region 1 teams are also highly under rated. At Super Copa, Region I was represented by only one team, Cedar Stars Monmouth. They did very well making it to the Semi-finals beating Players Elite and then losing by one goal to Slammers Cruz. They also lost to Adames 3-1 in bracket play.

Here is how they did this weekend against other top Region 1 teams, dead last...
http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=73301&Gender=Girls&Age=11

If YSR wants to get it right, they would adjust all PIs off of U10 Super Copa Results each year. It’s also why Super Copa is such a great tournament.

by Truthiness 01/09/19, 12:50 pm

MARsSPEED wrote:My turn and I have a couple of things to say here...

YSR is biased from the very beginning of rankings and here is how it happens. All rankings have to start some where. This is simply done by picking a team from the start of the U10 season and starts from there. If owner of YSR picks SoCal team “A” and starts them at PI of 25.0, all indexes are adjusted based on that team. By contrast, if owner of YSR takes team “B” from North Texas and starts them at 24.0 they already start behind SoCal.

If anyone has paid attention, there was a time early last year when a small team “Sacham Black” from New York was #1 for a month. There was also a week when some Wisconsin teams were #1. Obviously the team had the wrong index number put in from the start.

Pretty much the owner has decided SoCal starts the highest. I have no idea by how much. Here is the craziest part...if owner does not not like results, he/she can simply go back and change the PI of start team to get desired results. Lastly, owner lives in Arizona.

This is proof of how the system begins. Unfortunately it rolls over for years as you can see through older groups.

This isn't how it works. Not at all. You are either misinformed or making things up.

by Guest 01/09/19, 04:00 pm

Truthiness wrote:
MARsSPEED wrote:My turn and I have a couple of things to say here...

YSR is biased from the very beginning of rankings and here is how it happens. All rankings have to start some where. This is simply done by picking a team from the start of the U10 season and starts from there. If owner of YSR picks SoCal team “A” and starts them at PI of 25.0, all indexes are adjusted based on that team. By contrast, if owner of YSR takes team “B” from North Texas and starts them at 24.0 they already start behind SoCal.

If anyone has paid attention, there was a time early last year when a small team “Sacham Black” from New York was #1 for a month. There was also a week when some Wisconsin teams were #1. Obviously the team had the wrong index number put in from the start.

Pretty much the owner has decided SoCal starts the highest. I have no idea by how much. Here is the craziest part...if owner does not not like results, he/she can simply go back and change the PI of start team to get desired results. Lastly, owner lives in Arizona.

This is proof of how the system begins. Unfortunately it rolls over for years as you can see through older groups.

It is how it works. You are misinformed.

In order to start an algorithm you need a starting point. Since we have different regions that are inter twinning, each area has to have starting point in which everything is based off of. When teams play and do not have an “Kevin Bacon” degree of separation, the originator of an algorithm must create a starting point.

To quote your thinking, “This is simple math”. In reality it is basic statistics.

Facts don’t care about your feelings. I sited actual facts with Sachem Black. You have none.

I will say you are correct however about scoring differential. That is the ONLY reason Lehigh Valley has done so well with ranking and deserving so.

This isn't how it works. Not at all. You are either misinformed or making things up.

by Truthiness 01/09/19, 06:54 pm

MARsSPEED wrote:
Truthiness wrote:
MARsSPEED wrote:My turn and I have a couple of things to say here...

YSR is biased from the very beginning of rankings and here is how it happens. All rankings have to start some where. This is simply done by picking a team from the start of the U10 season and starts from there. If owner of YSR picks SoCal team “A” and starts them at PI of 25.0, all indexes are adjusted based on that team. By contrast, if owner of YSR takes team “B” from North Texas and starts them at 24.0 they already start behind SoCal.

If anyone has paid attention, there was a time early last year when a small team “Sacham Black” from New York was #1 for a month. There was also a week when some Wisconsin teams were #1. Obviously the team had the wrong index number put in from the start.

Pretty much the owner has decided SoCal starts the highest. I have no idea by how much. Here is the craziest part...if owner does not not like results, he/she can simply go back and change the PI of start team to get desired results. Lastly, owner lives in Arizona.

This is proof of how the system begins. Unfortunately it rolls over for years as you can see through older groups.

It is how it works. You are misinformed.

In order to start an algorithm you need a starting point. Since we have different regions that are inter twinning, each area has to have starting point in which everything is based off of. When teams play and do not have an “Kevin Bacon” degree of separation, the originator of an algorithm must create a starting point.

To quote your thinking, “This is simple math”. In reality it is basic statistics.

Facts don’t care about your feelings. I sited actual facts with Sachem Black. You have none.

I will say you are correct however about scoring differential. That is the ONLY reason Lehigh Valley has done so well with ranking and deserving so.

This isn't how it works. Not at all. You are either misinformed or making things up.

The baseline comes in once new age teams start playing older teams. That's the weight and baseline. And then as teams from different parts of the country start to play each other the data points get connected.

There isn't some magic number assigned to some random team in each age group and area of the country at the discretion of some dude (Mark) who secretly loves SoCal. The original "Kevin Bacon" happened nearly a decade ago. Everything else is, as you do correctly say, math and statistics.

New teams, such as your example, pop up high in the rankings all the time. It happens a lot and is most often caused when some team at the bottom of a typically closed league (like a local city league) plays a tournament and gets a fluke good result. That usually gives the top teams in the closed league a big ranking. Once a few more games happen outside their league they find their proper level.

by Guest 01/09/19, 08:11 pm

So what you are saying is Region 4 has 70% of the best teams across all ages? Guess I should just move my kid to Lacrosse now. LOL.

by Truthiness 01/09/19, 10:50 pm

MARsSPEED wrote:So what you are saying is Region 4 has 70% of the best teams across all ages? Guess I should just move my kid to Lacrosse now. LOL.

That isn't what I am saying at all. I am just trying to help you understand how YSR works.

And it isn't Region 4 that you should be mad at for why East Coast teams don't rank as high as you think they should. It is just SoCal that should draw your ire (and NTX, to a slightly lesser extent). Take SoCal out of Region 4 and it's an average region.

I think there are several reasons why SoCal (and NTX) dominate the rankings and tournaments, especially at the younger ages. Some are "good" reasons and some are either unsustainable advantages or even counter productive to longterm development. That seems to me like a more interesting conversation than silly conspiracy theories about YSR.

by 07soccerdad 02/09/19, 07:29 am

In a couple of years, hopefully when your DDs are playing DA or ECNL or other, you won't care nearly as much for these rankings. Trust me. Eventually, the best of NTX and SoCal will play one another in NTL playoffs or tourneys, at which time the best teams will come out on top. So much will change in the meantime.

by Guest 02/09/19, 10:33 am

LOL, the SoCal parents created an ‘09 “All Star” (GOATS FC) team for the big Blues Cup tournament and are proud that they are winning?!? SMH, so not fair to the other clubs playing in that tournament. That’s Californians for you! See links below.
https://www.gotsport.com/m/events/results.aspx?EventID=70248&GroupID=798030&Gender=Girls&Age=11

Thread
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/blues-cup-2019.17874/page-2

by Truthiness 02/09/19, 01:05 pm

MARsSPEED wrote:LOL, the SoCal parents created an ‘09 “All Star” (GOATS FC) team for the big Blues Cup tournament and are proud that they are winning?!? SMH, so not fair to the other clubs playing in that tournament. That’s Californians for you! See links below.
https://www.gotsport.com/m/events/results.aspx?EventID=70248&GroupID=798030&Gender=Girls&Age=11

Thread
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/blues-cup-2019.17874/page-2

I think you have totally lost the plot. You seem to think the purpose of a tournament is to try and ensure that teams get a chance to maximize national rankings. In reality, the purpose is to have fun, develop as players, and play some unique teams. Probably in that order.

If a bunch of nine-year-old friends with an off weekend want to get together and play in the top bracket of a tournament, that should be celebrated, not made fun of on a forum 1000 miles away.

They are in the top bracket. They are not trophy hunting. They appear to be simply fostering a love of the game and having fun.

by Guest 02/09/19, 03:05 pm

Truthiness wrote:
MARsSPEED wrote:LOL, the SoCal parents created an ‘09 “All Star” (GOATS FC) team for the big Blues Cup tournament and are proud that they are winning?!? SMH, so not fair to the other clubs playing in that tournament. That’s Californians for you! See links below.
https://www.gotsport.com/m/events/results.aspx?EventID=70248&GroupID=798030&Gender=Girls&Age=11

Thread
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/blues-cup-2019.17874/page-2

I think you have totally lost the plot. You seem to think the purpose of a tournament is to try and ensure that teams get a chance to maximize national rankings. In reality, the purpose is to have fun, develop as players, and play some unique teams. Probably in that order.

If a bunch of nine-year-old friends with an off weekend want to get together and play in the top bracket of a tournament, that should be celebrated, not made fun of on a forum 1000 miles away.

They are in the top bracket. They are not trophy hunting. They appear to be simply fostering a love of the game and having fun.

Quite the opposite. It is an All Star team. Not just randoms. You people from SoCal have no moral compass whatsoever.

I bet if North Texas created a team of girls from a Voutier, Adames, Angelone and Bones, came to Blues Cup, beat up on the other teams, you would cry like babies! Oh wait, my bad, that already happened except they were not All Star teams, lol!!!

I also don’t think Texans would go that low...

by ProphAC 02/09/19, 07:18 pm

I’m not looking to participate in this debate anymore... I just wanted to point out that the GOAT team lost in the final to a good Colorado Rush team. I have heard of this GOAT team tradition and I don’t care to have an opinion of it but I am amused that they lost. Goes to show that team chemistry and experience together goes a long ways towards winning.

by Guest 03/09/19, 07:41 am

Super Copa Winner of 2020 - Michigan Wolves Hawks

Top 4 Teams Nationally IMO

1. Dfeeters Voutier (NTX) – Proven Back to Back SuperCopa Champions, Winners over Slammers Cruz, Winners over highly ranked boys teams in Texas. Will be interesting once the girls have to pick between DA/ECNL after this season if they so choose.

2. Colorado Rush Pre-Academy Di Biasi (CO)

3. SUSA Pre ECNL (NY)

4. Michigan Wolves Hawks (MI)

Top 4 Teams by Each Region

Region 1

1. SUSA PreECNL (NY)

2. PDA Legacy Blue (NJ)

3. Lehigh Valley Black (PA)

4. Loudoun Red (VA)

Region 2

1. Michigan Wolves Hawks (MI)

2. St Louis Scott Gallagher SC Elite Navy

3. TFA Ohio Elite (OH)

4. Nationals Macomb Black (MI)

Region 3

1. Dfeeters Voutier (NTX)

2. Solar Chelsea Angelone (NTX)

3. Solar South Adames (NTX)

4. Tennessee Premier Blue (TN)

Region 4

1. Colorado Rush Di Biasi (CAS)

2. Slammers PA Aguirre (CAS)

3. Slammers Cruz (CAS)

4. Players Elite (NV)

Sleeper 4 Teams by Each Region

Region 1

1. Cedar Stars Monmouth (NJ)

2. World Class McGovern (MD)

3. Arlington RED (VA)

4. Great Falls Reston Spirit (VA)

Region 2

1. Nationals TriCounty Black (MI)

2. Internationals SC Red (OH)

3. Sporting STL Franklin ODonnell (MO)

4. Chicago Fire Juniors South (IL)

Region 3

1. Dfeeters Bones (NTX)

2. Sunrise Sting X1 (FL)

3. FC Dallas JDL Red (NTX)

4. Dallas Texans Samba Scarfone (TN)

Region 4

1. PSV Union FC (CAN)

2. Eagles SC (CAS)

3. Mustang SC Elite (CAN)

4. Liverpool Red (CAS)

by ProphAC 03/09/19, 11:53 am

MARs,

You crack me up! Your rankings stuff is next level! Maybe a little unhealthy... but don’t let me stop you.

I don’t mean to bust your bubble but I think SuperCopa made a huge mistake in choosing Cincinnati as the next location because I don’t see many Region 3 and 4 teams making the trip. I guess we will see but I expect the competition level to take a huge step down.

by bigballer07 03/09/19, 01:50 pm

They play soccer in Michigan?? Asking for a friend Very Happy

by Yo 03/09/19, 02:04 pm

bigballer07 wrote:They play soccer in Michigan?? Asking for a friend

Yes. late-May to August. Short season.

by Guest 03/09/19, 02:32 pm

ProphAC wrote:MARs,

You crack me up! Your rankings stuff is next level! Maybe a little unhealthy... but don’t let me stop you.

I don’t mean to bust your bubble but I think SuperCopa made a huge mistake in choosing Cincinnati as the next location because I don’t see many Region 3 and 4 teams making the trip. I guess we will see but I expect the competition level to take a huge step down.

LOL, it's all good. Some people just don't have anything better to do I guess...I have thick skin although the SoCal parents did get to me earlier this year. Now I just like to ruffle the feathers over there a little.

I agree about SuperCopa. Cincinnati isn't exactly a premier destination. Not sure the thinking there. Regardless, I'm sure Clubs that are closer will try to make the trip. Yes, likely heavy with Region I and II teams but don't let that fool you.

Remember, Cedar Stars had a heck of a run at SuperCopa this past June and they are on the same level as your Bones team. The three teams above them are exactly that, a big step above.

by Mpereztx10 07/09/19, 01:16 am

It would be nice to play different teams. I'm sure some region 3 teams will go

by smugrr 10/09/19, 09:01 am

LA to Cincinnati is not a easy trip. Not nearly a many flights as to Chicago, Denver or Dallas.

by bigballer07 11/09/19, 09:15 am

https://youthsoccerrankings.us/rankings/National/11/Girls/

Updated National Rankings as of 9/11/19

by Guest 11/09/19, 10:33 am

Legit question - do these national rankings really have any importance or significance?

by AngelinaGoalee 11/09/19, 11:22 am

If you consider marketing material and or ego feeding then yes. But for any significance in regards to actual achievements or rewards/awards then NOPE!!

by Yo 11/09/19, 11:39 am

soccertx75 wrote:Legit question - do these national rankings really have any importance or significance?

Zero

by timmyh 11/09/19, 12:52 pm

soccertx75 wrote:Legit question - do these national rankings really have any importance or significance?

Very little importance and very little significance. I would say "zero importance" but many tournaments will use it as a tool to help seed and form brackets. So it has a minor impact.

Understand what is is and what it isn't. And don't read too much into it... Once enough games are recorded, YSR does however do a pretty good job of comparing the relative strength of different teams based on their past performance. For all its limitations and given the fact it is backward-looking, it is also remarkably accurate in predicting future games. Take it for what it is. And definitely ignore the gotsoccer rankings, which are garbage .

by Cerv1973 12/09/19, 06:51 pm

Those rankings don’t mean crap. Don’t waste your time.

I’m surprised it has gotten this much attention.

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