D2 scores on this day

bwgophers wrote:

SolarPower00 wrote:

BWG,  I think we ALL are learning the effects of the new rule.
I think most CPP use is for the right reasons....I bet about 10% is not
And SOME results/standings  are starting to be influenced

Well, I was the big one on here saying "show me the proof", "show me the data"... and I unfortunately can't ignore the data that I've been getting over the past couple of weeks.  

Here is what the data is telling me...

- There are coaches/teams out there that could be using CPP for either "legitimate" reasons, or for competitive advantage under the guise of "legitimate" reasons, but have distinctly decided not to.
- There are coaches/teams out there that are using CPP for "legitimate" reasons (i.e. injury backfill and/or development opportunities).

However,

- Based on what I directly know of and/or been told, the large majority of CPP's are playing "down".  I'm going to say it's in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 to 1 for CPP's playing "down" vs. playing "up" on the CPP cases that I'm aware of.  My data is certainly not comprehensive, and it could be wrong (and I'd love for Duncan to come on here and tell me so), but I don't think I'm that far off.  If CPP was truly about development and not competitive advantage, there's no way the ratio is anywhere close to that high.  

- I'm getting direct input on cases where players from a lower division team are losing significant minutes to CPP's from upper division teams.  Some parents are getting upset about it, and some parents are o.k. with it (I still am having a hard time grasping the latter attitude, but I can no longer deny that it's out there).

- I've heard of at least 2 instances already where from the outside looking in, it's very hard to argue that players were brought down for any reason other than to help influence a result, and they appear to have been successful.  (...and NO, my DD's team wasn't involved in either of those.  They weren't even in the same age group as my DD).

What I would hope, is that at the end of the Spring season, LHGCL goes back and reviews the CPP data.  Specifically, take a look at what the ratio of CPP's playing "down" vs. playing "up" was.  That should be a very telling statistic, and I would say that if the ratio is higher than 60-40 or maybe even 70-30 for playing down vs. playing up, they should take a look a tweaking the rule to drive the balance to be closer to 50-50.

4-3-3 wrote:Gophers...I KNOW you are a numbers guy...how do you make these conclusions? Do you have access to the league's CPP data or are you just using the grapevine and what people send via PM.

futbollove wrote:

Just because a player is a D1 player, doesn't make them a difference maker or game changer in a D2 game. What if the CPP rule was used for the benefit of the D1 player? Is that not still a development opportunity? There are several players on D1 teams, that realistically should be playing D2 or lower. The development angle can and should go both ways.

scoregazam wrote:
...

With that being said... I still think it gives an unfair advantage to the larger clubs and leaves the independents who are facing the same struggles as the large clubs (injuries, illnesses, volleyball games, basketball games etc.) at a disadvantage.

...

wxyz wrote:

scoregazam wrote:
...

With that being said... I still think it gives an unfair advantage to the larger clubs and leaves the independents who are facing the same struggles as the large clubs (injuries, illnesses, volleyball games, basketball games etc.) at a disadvantage.

...

A better characterization would be:

...it gives an unfair advantage to the clubs that are using the rule to get promoted, avoid relegation, etc. and leaves the clubs that cannot or only use the rule for the intended purposes at a disadvantage.

Willingness to use the rule for "the wrong reasons" has nothing to do with being a large club or being independent.  The rule gives large clubs more opportunities to "cheat" but not all large clubs cheat.  Independents are not at a disadvantage if they have the means and the willingness.

Case in point:  Kicks Gold in '01.  Their record improved from 1 win, 2 ties, 2 loses, 3 goals for, and 4 goals against during the fall season to 5 wins and 0 loses, 14 goals for, and 3 goals against in the spring season against the same 5 teams!

Is it possible that they improved that much over the winter break?  Yes.  Is it also possible that their D1 players are helping out to secure a D1 promotion?  Also yes.

ez_now_girls wrote:

aTmAg wrote:I have heard that one of the FCD players who left over the winter was due to the fact that their DD wasn't named a starter the moment she returned from an injury. God forbid the coach wanting too ease her back into things. I have heard other teams have problems with this particular parent. I can't speak for any other girls who left that team.

It is really a sad thing when someone makes false statements.  Lies like these are the reason so many families have pulled their DDs from this team.  I have had several conversations with this family and the environment, not his DD starting, was the reason he removed her from this team.  Also, this was the second select team and the family is on good terms with their prior coach.  They have suggested various families take their dds over to that team.  Get the facts straight!

Did the other families remove their daughters because they were not starting or did they remove their daughters because of people like YOU?  I would suggest the latter.  While you are spreading lies on this one, it would be great to know why you think ALL OF THE OTHER FAMILIES REMOVED THEIR DAUGHTERS!!  

Instead of making suggestions that slander a family, why not work on fixing the reasons so many families have departed from your team?  I think I heard that one of the girls that guest played in the game  yesterday was one of FCD's former players.  Is that true?  Maybe, just maybe, she would still be there if not for parents like you.  What do ya think? That is not me suggesting lies or offering misinformation, that is me asking an honest question.  Or is honesty something you avoid?

wxyz wrote:

A better characterization would be:

...it gives an unfair advantage to the clubs that are using the rule to get promoted, avoid relegation, etc. and leaves the clubs that cannot or only use the rule for the intended purposes at a disadvantage.

Willingness to use the rule for "the wrong reasons" has nothing to do with being a large club or being independent.  The rule gives large clubs more opportunities to "cheat" but not all large clubs cheat.  Independents are not at a disadvantage if they have the means and the willingness.

Case in point:  Kicks Gold in '01.  Their record improved from 1 win, 2 ties, 2 loses, 3 goals for, and 4 goals against during the fall season to 5 wins and 0 loses, 14 goals for, and 3 goals against in the spring season against the same 5 teams!




Is it possible that they improved that much over the winter break?  Yes.  Is it also possible that their D1 players are helping out to secure a D1 promotion for
their D2 sister team?  Also yes.

bwgophers wrote:
Sorry, gotta defend Kicks G on this one...  When our girls played them this Spring, I am not aware of any CPP's that were used.  They only had 2 subs on their bench, and there were not any players on the pitch that stood out as "ringers".  Our girls 0-1 loss to them was the result of a well played game by both teams where Kicks G converted an opportunity and our girls failed to convert any of theirs.

jm23jm wrote:

wxyz wrote:

A better characterization would be:

...it gives an unfair advantage to the clubs that are using the rule to get promoted, avoid relegation, etc. and leaves the clubs that cannot or only use the rule for the intended purposes at a disadvantage.

Willingness to use the rule for "the wrong reasons" has nothing to do with being a large club or being independent.  The rule gives large clubs more opportunities to "cheat" but not all large clubs cheat.  Independents are not at a disadvantage if they have the means and the willingness.

Case in point:  Kicks Gold in '01.  Their record improved from 1 win, 2 ties, 2 loses, 3 goals for, and 4 goals against during the fall season to 5 wins and 0 loses, 14 goals for, and 3 goals against in the spring season against the same 5 teams!




Is it possible that they improved that much over the winter break?  Yes.  Is it also possible that their D1 players are helping out to secure a D1 promotion for
their D2 sister team?  Also yes.

  I will let you be the judge of this. Here are the facts.

1 player pass vs FT Worth game (defender)
0 player pass vs Solar
1 player pass vs Liverpool (defender)
0 player pass vs Sting Hilton
0 player pass vs Sting Grey
0 will be used vs TX Spirit. We will be without another player due to a concussion this past weekend.

aTmAg wrote:

ez_now_girls wrote:

aTmAg wrote:I have heard that one of the FCD players who left over the winter was due to the fact that their DD wasn't named a starter the moment she returned from an injury. God forbid the coach wanting too ease her back into things. I have heard other teams have problems with this particular parent. I can't speak for any other girls who left that team.

It is really a sad thing when someone makes false statements.  Lies like these are the reason so many families have pulled their DDs from this team.  I have had several conversations with this family and the environment, not his DD starting, was the reason he removed her from this team.  Also, this was the second select team and the family is on good terms with their prior coach.  They have suggested various families take their dds over to that team.  Get the facts straight!

Did the other families remove their daughters because they were not starting or did they remove their daughters because of people like YOU?  I would suggest the latter.  While you are spreading lies on this one, it would be great to know why you think ALL OF THE OTHER FAMILIES REMOVED THEIR DAUGHTERS!!  

Instead of making suggestions that slander a family, why not work on fixing the reasons so many families have departed from your team?  I think I heard that one of the girls that guest played in the game  yesterday was one of FCD's former players.  Is that true?  Maybe, just maybe, she would still be there if not for parents like you.  What do ya think? That is not me suggesting lies or offering misinformation, that is me asking an honest question.  Or is honesty something you avoid?

I don't have a daughter on the team.  Nice try though.

We could be talking about a different girl.  But the one I'm talking about is definitely NOT on good terms with his previous coach.  They left their prior team and tried to get several players to defect with them.  Yet none of them left.

jm23jm wrote:.

ez_now_girls wrote:
The young lady in question works hard, plays hard and was appointed team captain while on that team.  Again, a highly, highly emotional situation and they appear to have made peace with whatever happened.