'06 FBR Mar 26th

As someone new to the Academy world in NTX with my U8 DD, this thread has been very interesting.

I initially looked at the FBR and thought it was a really good indicator of the top teams and thus the top coaching for this developing age group. And it was obvious that the Kicks program with the 06G's is special. I can also see that it can be a great recruiting tool for those top teams and Kick's especially. The thread did shed more light on the situation than I previously thought by just looking at the rankings. I initially thought that Kicks had a great pool of girls and were able to field 3 distinct special teams that were competing as one of the best clubs. But then I learned that in fact it is a smaller pool of girls and that they all play on all 3 teams. It does change my perception somewhat. Not in a negative way though. The CPP method is great and provides a lot of development for the girls and can only be positive. It just makes the FBR not as effective of a tool as I thought. But perhaps, if there is a lot of ringer play here with many teams, then it would be difficult to track who plays on multiple teams, etc. So I see the FBR as great and hope it continues, but it has to be looked at with a grain of salt.

All, Im am going to put this to bed right now.

I appreciate all the PMs, texts, and emails commenting on the appreciation of the work done.  Its nothging campared to what BW did handling multiple age groups at one time, but does take time.

FBR will continue.

Haters will hate.  

I will put one out in the next two weeks once I have a bit more game data to enter, hopefully the weather holds.  Will publish as normal thru tournament season, and let the chips fall where they may.  

The 06 age group is becoming deeper with talented DDs out there.  Going to be a true pleasue to watch them all grow and learn.

This entire board is one big agenda! Do not be fooled in to thinking other wise.

Good morning Tom, and Happy Easter to you and your family.  

Shame about the result yesterday vs. Eagles.  You should have come over and said hi.  

It's funny I couldn't see you slithering in the weeds out side the fence, but if it makes you feel better hi! Lol

Here is a big Easter hug for you buddy. I think you need one. Have a good one.

Borussia wrote:
FBR will continue..

Was this all an Easter ploy? To have FBR resurrected on Easter? Perhaps creative fun was Bo...just to have creative disappear and Bo have his little Easter joke... we are all pawns on Bo's chess board.

Well done if so.

Dang, ya got me... Haha

I agree with a lot of you and hope the FBR stays. We all have different agendas for our DD's and its a great indicator on who is the best team at this time.

Some parents are wanting there DD's to be on the best team now and play nothing but soccer and futsol.

Some parents want there kids to play multiple sports and want the kid to decide where they want to be.

Some parents want there kids to peak at soccer at 14 not 8 and feel like specializing in one sport is not a good idea this young.

Some parents the club and facility is real important. Some could care less what the club and facility is.

Some parents just want them to just have fun.

Some parents just want there DD's to be well rounded in all areas (Education, ext.) and sports just being a fraction.

Some parents are worried about ACL and MCL injuries and want to limit there practices so they can play longer and not get injured and burned out.

Some parents just want there kid to be the best player on a OK or good team.

We all have different goals and its nice to see where the 06's are at now!

Listen to your DD and she will let you know what she wants. Just try not to be a crazy parent and live through them too much.

Thanks Borussia for doing the FBR and do not end it!

Guest wrote:Honest advertisement .    Who wouldn't want talented kids and build a 2nd ranked team? And confess, I don't care about rankings.   Shrewd , smart DM only.   I would never bring my DD near kicks programs built on dishonesty. And to answer ur question, one of your kicks 06 kids that came to train with my DD s team leaked kicks 06 philosophy of building second team. I just wanted to share with rest of honest soccer community.

Dishonesty about u8 girls soccer? You have to be kidding. Please let everyone know what one of my parents shared with you regarding my philosophy of building second teams. Let's share with the rest of the honest soccer community so they can be informed

Do I care about rankings at u8? Not at all.   Why do you think I always play up against 05s or against boys?

Do I care about rankings at select level? Yes I do. How you are ranked will help you get into top national tournaments.

At this age it is all about having FUN and LEARNING.

 

FierceLightning wrote:As someone new to the Academy world in NTX with my U8 DD, this thread has been very interesting.

I initially looked at the FBR and thought it was a really good indicator of the top teams and thus the top coaching for this developing age group. And it was obvious that the Kicks program with the 06G's is special. I can also see that it can be a great recruiting tool for those top teams and Kick's especially. The thread did shed more light on the situation than I previously thought by just looking at the rankings. I initially thought that Kicks had a great pool of girls and were able to field 3 distinct special teams that were competing as one of the best clubs. But then I learned that in fact it is a smaller pool of girls and that they all play on all 3 teams. It does change my perception somewhat. Not in a negative way though. The CPP method is great and provides a lot of development for the girls and can only be positive. It just makes the FBR not as effective of a tool as I thought. But perhaps, if there is a lot of ringer play here with many teams, then it would be difficult to track who plays on multiple teams, etc. So I see the FBR as great and hope it continues, but it has to be looked at with a grain of salt.

I agree with you to look at fbr with a grain of salt.  

From the outside I can see why people can think we use fbr as a recruiting tool. A lot of folks put way too much stock into it.  The truth is, I turn away more players because of fbr then I pickup. This season I had at least 7-10 players contact me wanting to make a change but only if I allow them to join Selecao. My roster was full for Selecao for 9v9 division. Once we move to 11v11 there will be more roster spots but my goal is to promote from within.

I think you should create 7 more teams, allow as much cross play as possible and lets see if there can be Kicks covering all 10 spots in the top 10 of Borussia's FBR recruiting tool.

  

tpitty wrote:I think you should create 7 more teams, allow as much cross play as possible and lets see if there can be Kicks covering all 10 spots in the top 10 of Borussia's FBR recruiting tool.

  

We are always looking at adding teams.  

What's funny is...

MY DD WASNT AT KICKS WHEN I STARTED FBR.

We have great parents, and great kids that are loving what they have. Nuff said.

[quote="jm23jm"] 

FierceLightning wrote:As someone new to the Academy world in NTX with my U8 DD, this thread has been very interesting.

From the outside I can see why people can think we use fbr as a recruiting tool. A lot of folks put way too much stock into it.  The truth is, I turn away more players because of fbr then I pickup. This season I had at least 7-10 players contact me wanting to make a change but only if I allow them to join Selecao. My roster was full for Selecao for 9v9 division. Once we move to 11v11 there will be more roster spots but my goal is to promote from within.

OK JM you tell me…why do you support FBR? How does ranking 2nd grade girls teams aid in development? Don’t say it helps coaches determine which leagues/divisions to play in because we did not have FBR with my oldest DD and we seemed to manage that just fine.

I think FBR (or more specifically how people use FBR) is a great example of what is wrong with NTX. I think it only fuels coaches/parents to be more focused on wins than on what is best for the players- it further encourages tactics that our counter to development (guest players, playing time issues, etc.). I understand wins can certainly be a product of development, but not always and that does not mean more focus on wins helps development. Some will say if you don’t like FBR don’t look at it or worry about it, but that is a rather ignorant statement considering everyone knows it impacts player movement and parent perception. I just do not understand why coaches who are truly focused on player development within NTX support FBR?

Many parents that have been through the system before understand this and understand a coach that is focused on true player development may or may not be in the top 10 in wins at U8 and that is OK. These parents understand that U8 is not the end goal, nor even that all important first year of select.    But many of those 1st time parents through the system seem to lack perspective (maybe I did back then too). It is really almost comical..I guess FBR is very important if your supreme soccer goal for your kid ends in 4th grade.    I wish parents would really stop and think about what they were doing in sports in 2nd- 4th grade- it might put things in better perspective.

FierceLightning wrote:As someone new to the Academy world in NTX with my U8 DD, this thread has been very interesting.

I initially looked at the FBR and thought it was a really good indicator of the top teams and thus the top coaching for this developing age group. And it was obvious that the Kicks program with the 06G's is special. I can also see that it can be a great recruiting tool for those top teams and Kick's especially. The thread did shed more light on the situation than I previously thought by just looking at the rankings. I initially thought that Kicks had a great pool of girls and were able to field 3 distinct special teams that were competing as one of the best clubs. But then I learned that in fact it is a smaller pool of girls and that they all play on all 3 teams. It does change my perception somewhat. Not in a negative way though. The CPP method is great and provides a lot of development for the girls and can only be positive. It just makes the FBR not as effective of a tool as I thought. But perhaps, if there is a lot of ringer play here with many teams, then it would be difficult to track who plays on multiple teams, etc. So I see the FBR as great and hope it continues, but it has to be looked at with a grain of salt.

We had one coach recently tell us that he uses the FBR to "avoid the limelight" (this is not an attack of that coach or his team). This is directed at newbies from another newbie. I feel like I was originally one of those parents whose coach avoided the limelight. I paid dues for 12 months to practice once a week, play in one tournament and play indoor in the winter and summer. We seemed to be a good enough team based on the competition we were exposed to. We were also in the right place because we were on an ECNL club. If I had known about FBR, I probably would have asked some questions. Why don't we play in the league that's closest to where we practice? Why don't we play in more tournaments? Where do these top teams play indoor? They don't play indoor, what is this futsal stuff? If I had seen the FBR, I would have at least had a better idea of how big and competitive the NTX soccer scene is.

Cmon_Man wrote:

jm23jm wrote: 

FierceLightning wrote:As someone new to the Academy world in NTX with my U8 DD, this thread has been very interesting.

From the outside I can see why people can think we use fbr as a recruiting tool. A lot of folks put way too much stock into it.  The truth is, I turn away more players because of fbr then I pickup. This season I had at least 7-10 players contact me wanting to make a change but only if I allow them to join Selecao. My roster was full for Selecao for 9v9 division. Once we move to 11v11 there will be more roster spots but my goal is to promote from within.

OK JM you tell me…why do you support FBR?  How does ranking 2nd grade girls teams aid in development?  Don’t say it helps coaches determine which leagues/divisions to play in because we did not have FBR with my oldest DD and we seemed to manage that just fine.  

I think FBR (or more specifically how people use FBR) is a great example of what is wrong with NTX.  I think it only fuels coaches/parents to be more focused on wins than on what is best for the players- it further encourages tactics that our counter to development (guest players, playing time issues, etc.).  I understand wins can certainly be a product of development, but not always and that does not mean more focus on wins helps development. Some will say if you don’t like FBR don’t look at it or worry about it, but that is a rather ignorant statement considering everyone knows it impacts player movement and parent perception.  I just do not understand why coaches who are truly focused on player development within NTX support FBR?

Many parents that have been through the system before understand this and understand a coach that is focused on true player development may or may not be in the top 10 in wins at U8 and that is OK.  These parents understand that U8 is not the end goal, nor even that all important first year of select.        But many of those 1st time parents through the system seem to lack perspective (maybe I did back then too).   It is really almost comical..I guess FBR is very important if your supreme soccer goal for your kid ends in 4th grade.     I wish parents would really stop and think about what they were doing in sports in 2nd- 4th grade- it might put things in better perspective.  

How have I supported FBR?  I don't care about FBR, let it go away or keep it I don't care  either way.   I don't spend anytime reporting or documenting scores.  

I couldn't agree anymore with everything else you said.  This is the reason I believe a player pool is best way to develop academy kids.  From experience with my own DD she needed to move down levels, play multiple games to catch up.  She was a VERY late bloomer.

The eye ball test is best way to see if girls/teams are developing.  Are the players showing skill, are they showing an understanding of the game. Or are they just kicking it and hoping for the best?  

If anyone knows me I prefer the underdog role, makes players and myself have goals and work to achieve our goals.  Rank Selecao behind any 06 team I could care less.  

I have no problem leaving all Kicks teams out of fbr too, I don't care.  The parents that use fbr to find a new team are parents I don't want on our sideline.  They will always look for greener pastures.

Yes we want are DD to develop and win many games. You are lying if you say different, I see FBR as a tool to show where the better teams are playing and the better players. So why knock something that is showing us where the better of the talent is. Especially, being from Tulsa I want to know where to spend my money for tournaments for the better comp, just saying!!!

FBR certainly has it's uses. Should it be a parent's only source of information about a particular program, absolutely not. When my oldest started playing, there was nothing like this in place. Txsoccer didn't even exist. Her team played in an isolated league, against the same teams and we thought we were in a good place, developing at the same rate as the other teams in N. Tx. So imagine our surprise at QT, to find out NTX soccer was larger than SDL or whatever league it was at the time. We were totally unprepared and unaware of what we were about to  experience those 2 weekends. Having more information available to you is never a bad thing. It's what you choose to do with that info is where the problem lies. And that's all fbr is. Luckily the 2nd time around, I am much more informed as a parent, so if fbr went away, it wouldn't our affect decision one way or the other. But it is good reading material.   

souljalaw25 wrote:Yes we want are DD to develop and win many games. You are lying if you say different, I see FBR as a tool to show where the better teams are playing and the better players. So why knock something that is showing us where the better of the talent is. Especially, being from Tulsa I want to know where to spend my money for tournaments for the better comp, just saying!!!  

I never said I did not want my dd to win games so not sure how I would be lying. What I said was winning alone (which is what FBR is all about) is not necessarily and indicator of which coaches/teams are the best developers of talent- which should be the primary focus in the Academy years and even early select years.

You say you want to know where the comp is. Well given you are from OK I can help you with that one without FBR- the comp level you are looking for is in DFW at almost any tournament with enought teams, just saying.   

I was not meaning you in general! My Fault and I will look at the DFW area, Thank You

Cmon_Man wrote:
I never said I did not want my dd to win games so not sure how I would be lying.  What I said was winning alone (which is what FBR is all about) is not necessarily and indicator of which coaches/teams are the best developers of talent- which should be the primary focus in the Academy years and even early select years.  

FBR is about numbers. FBR tells you the relative strength of teams in broad terms.

Yes - it's "strength" meaning how likely one team is to win games against another.

While there is no point getting caught up in the quibbling over exact ranking order, the "Tiers" in FBR ARE very good predictors of relative team strength...by definition the tiers are set up so that all the teams in one tier rarely lose to teams in a lower tier.

There is nothing inherently WRONG with that, and I've yet to be convinced by any argument that ranking MAKES a coach focus on winning, when he/she otherwise wouldn't.

I do wish we had a system that ranked other development concepts like soccer IQ, first touch, skill, consecutive passes, off the ball movement, etc. etc., etc., but all those are MUCH harder to rank than winning.

The truth is NTX was focused on winning LONG before FBR, and will still be focused on winning LONG after FBR is gone. You're giving FBR way more credit than it deserves.

4-3-3 wrote:

Cmon_Man wrote:
I never said I did not want my dd to win games so not sure how I would be lying.  What I said was winning alone (which is what FBR is all about) is not necessarily and indicator of which coaches/teams are the best developers of talent- which should be the primary focus in the Academy years and even early select years.  

The truth is NTX was focused on winning LONG before FBR, and will still be focused on winning LONG after FBR is gone. You're giving FBR way more credit than it deserves.

I fully agree with you that winning in NTX has been a focus well before FBR- I also remember those days. However, I believe FBR just adds fuel to that fire. Even the best of coaches are forced to deal with the parent perception of FBR (their reality). FBR in itself is not the problem it is how much meaning parents put into it that creates the issues. Maybe FBR has some value the year before select, but I struggle to see how the good outweighs the bad (from a development perspective) 3 years away from select.

It's very simple.

It provides entertainment value at this point. Nothing more really.

As coach stated and it has been stated in the past. The eyeball test is the only one you should go by, saying you actually know what you are looking at.

Good example, there an 06 coach, team is nowhere near top 30, but the man has a proven track record. Teaches the game as it should be. Is at a big club, but does it his way. Focuses on the long term, not the immediate and preaches that from day one. You would never know that by just looking at FBR.

FBR can Be entertaining and a tool for finding a team or coach not listed on a website somewhere. But that's about it at this point. 2 years from now we can revisit its s BW does and then we talk it's prediction accuracy.

If someone is willing to pay me enough money, I'll go over to the SoCal forum and start up FBR there.

That will get them completely focused on winning over development, which will eliminate their advantage over NTX, and suddenly we'll have a bunch of NTX girls on the USWNT and getting schollies to Pac-12 and ACC schools!