player pass should be revoked

PrimeTime wrote:
I guess I still am looking for examples of the CPP being used in the other direction, whereby a player plays up vs their normal respective division (i.e. D2 to D1, D1 to ECNL and actually plays not just there to round out the 30 player roster).

3 players from my DD's U14 D1 team (2 Field, 1 GK) CPP'd with a U15 D1/PL team in U15 Premier League games this fall. The 2 field players played 50% or more in both games played that weekend, 1 win and 1 loss.

Borussia wrote:

soccer_mom_tx19 wrote:I totally disagree. Player pass is great motivation for kids to get better. The best players should get more playing time - they have earned it. If that means a less skilled player has to sit out, then so be it. If nothing else it will be an important life lesson. Those who work hard to be the best will reap the rewards and those who don't, won't. It's no different than a pro team signing a star player to replace a not-so-good player. And yes, there are financial consequences in both situations.

So a good player should be brought in from THEIR team to take minutes from a weaker player on another team, just because she is better.  

They don't EARN playing time on another team.  They earn playing time on their team.

This is funny coming from Kicks Nation

What's funny about all of this, is the only people not represented in how it all works, are the people that pay for it. Not a big fan of unions but in this case parents should be involved in these decisions not just the clubs. We fuel this silliness by paying for it. Might be smart to form a coalition to represent the people that actually support this business. We need a president bw it should be you.

Pinnochio wrote:

Borussia wrote:

soccer_mom_tx19 wrote:I totally disagree. Player pass is great motivation for kids to get better. The best players should get more playing time - they have earned it. If that means a less skilled player has to sit out, then so be it. If nothing else it will be an important life lesson. Those who work hard to be the best will reap the rewards and those who don't, won't. It's no different than a pro team signing a star player to replace a not-so-good player. And yes, there are financial consequences in both situations.

So a good player should be brought in from THEIR team to take minutes from a weaker player on another team, just because she is better.  

They don't EARN playing time on another team.  They earn playing time on their team.

This is funny coming from Kicks Nation

What's funny is you haven't been able to remove the burr up your butt that's been bothering you for so long. Whatever kicks did to you, I hope you can get over it.

Kicks has probably used CPP in league play fewer times than any club with multiple teams of the same age group. If kicks used CPP the way your club does they would have two teams in U14 D1.

Question:

What defines a "club"? Could every independent team or small club band together and call themselves the "Everybody Else" club? Can teams from that "club" wear different uniforms, call themselves what they want, charge players what they wish, pay coaches what they wish, practice wherever they wish, etc.? In short, can they be a single club in name only, but continue to be independent in every other way? That could suddenly become the largest club on Earth. That might make the board reconsider the rule in its current form.

aTmAg wrote:Question:

What defines a "club"? Could every independent team or small club band together and call themselves the "Everybody Else" club? Can teams from that "club" wear different uniforms, call themselves what they want, charge players what they wish, pay coaches what they wish, practice wherever they wish, etc.? In short, can they be a single club in name only, but continue to be independent in every other way? That could suddenly become the largest club on Earth. That might make the board reconsider the rule in its current form.

I know in Professional Services, there are associations that smaller firms/companies join.  By joining them, they get to compete with the big/larger firms....basically get a voice at the table (Lobbyist).  But there is a cost to join them or to get represented.  By no means, do they take on their title or have to change their logo.  Each year the Association meets for their Annual Meeting and everyone that is a member of it, gets to vote on what they want the association to fight for that year.....

And of course, then there are Unions......but then almost everyone needs to be apart of that group.

SocDad wrote:

aTmAg wrote:Question:

What defines a "club"? Could every independent team or small club band together and call themselves the "Everybody Else" club? Can teams from that "club" wear different uniforms, call themselves what they want, charge players what they wish, pay coaches what they wish, practice wherever they wish, etc.? In short, can they be a single club in name only, but continue to be independent in every other way? That could suddenly become the largest club on Earth. That might make the board reconsider the rule in its current form.

I know in Professional Services, there are associations that smaller firms/companies join.  By joining them, they get to compete with the big/larger firms....basically get a voice at the table (Lobbyist).  But there is a cost to join them or to get represented.  By no means, do they take on their title or have to change their logo.  Each year the Association meets for their Annual Meeting and everyone that is a member of it, gets to vote on what they want the association to fight for that year.....

And of course, then there are Unions......but then almost everyone needs to be apart of that group.

Here is a start in that direction.

http://www.cityfcacademy.com/news/

Lefty wrote:

SocDad wrote:

aTmAg wrote:Question:

What defines a "club"? Could every independent team or small club band together and call themselves the "Everybody Else" club? Can teams from that "club" wear different uniforms, call themselves what they want, charge players what they wish, pay coaches what they wish, practice wherever they wish, etc.? In short, can they be a single club in name only, but continue to be independent in every other way? That could suddenly become the largest club on Earth. That might make the board reconsider the rule in its current form.

I know in Professional Services, there are associations that smaller firms/companies join.  By joining them, they get to compete with the big/larger firms....basically get a voice at the table (Lobbyist).  But there is a cost to join them or to get represented.  By no means, do they take on their title or have to change their logo.  Each year the Association meets for their Annual Meeting and everyone that is a member of it, gets to vote on what they want the association to fight for that year.....

And of course, then there are Unions......but then almost everyone needs to be apart of that group.

Here is a start in that direction.

http://www.cityfcacademy.com/news/

There you go.....looks like its already started
But in order to have a "say" at in LHGCL table....more clubs need to band together.
Currently:  "All roads lead to the Big 5"

SocDad wrote:

Lefty wrote:

SocDad wrote:

aTmAg wrote:Question:

What defines a "club"? Could every independent team or small club band together and call themselves the "Everybody Else" club? Can teams from that "club" wear different uniforms, call themselves what they want, charge players what they wish, pay coaches what they wish, practice wherever they wish, etc.? In short, can they be a single club in name only, but continue to be independent in every other way? That could suddenly become the largest club on Earth. That might make the board reconsider the rule in its current form.

I know in Professional Services, there are associations that smaller firms/companies join.  By joining them, they get to compete with the big/larger firms....basically get a voice at the table (Lobbyist).  But there is a cost to join them or to get represented.  By no means, do they take on their title or have to change their logo.  Each year the Association meets for their Annual Meeting and everyone that is a member of it, gets to vote on what they want the association to fight for that year.....

And of course, then there are Unions......but then almost everyone needs to be apart of that group.

Here is a start in that direction.

http://www.cityfcacademy.com/news/

There you go.....looks like its already started
But in order to have a "say" at in LHGCL table....more clubs need to band together.
Currently:  "All roads lead to the Big 5"

Which 5 would that be?

Bet you will get quite a squabble over the 5th spot.

Lefty wrote:

SocDad wrote:

Lefty wrote:

SocDad wrote:

aTmAg wrote:Question:

What defines a "club"? Could every independent team or small club band together and call themselves the "Everybody Else" club? Can teams from that "club" wear different uniforms, call themselves what they want, charge players what they wish, pay coaches what they wish, practice wherever they wish, etc.? In short, can they be a single club in name only, but continue to be independent in every other way? That could suddenly become the largest club on Earth. That might make the board reconsider the rule in its current form.

I know in Professional Services, there are associations that smaller firms/companies join.  By joining them, they get to compete with the big/larger firms....basically get a voice at the table (Lobbyist).  But there is a cost to join them or to get represented.  By no means, do they take on their title or have to change their logo.  Each year the Association meets for their Annual Meeting and everyone that is a member of it, gets to vote on what they want the association to fight for that year.....

And of course, then there are Unions......but then almost everyone needs to be apart of that group.

Here is a start in that direction.

http://www.cityfcacademy.com/news/

There you go.....looks like its already started
But in order to have a "say" at in LHGCL table....more clubs need to band together.
Currently:  "All roads lead to the Big 5"

Which 5 would that be?  

Bet you will get quite a squabble over the 5th spot.

Tru dat, tru dat.......I guess I was referring to the "ECNL" clubs.  Maybe I should have said the big 4 1/2?????  and let everyone fight over who makes up those clubs  

How many of y'all have seen the CPP fail?

In that sense, I mean, if studs are brought in to replace the "weaker" players in order to win the game, but actually have a worse game than the players replaced? Possibly because they didn't know the system or chemistry, etc.

I would think that that would look embarrassing to the club, the coaches and the CPP parents who agreed to it.

Coach&Ref wrote:How many of y'all have seen the CPP fail?

In that sense, I mean, if studs are brought in to replace the "weaker" players in order to win the game, but actually have a worse game than the players replaced? Possibly because they didn't know the system or chemistry, etc.

I would think that that would look embarrassing to the club, the coaches and the CPP parents who agreed to it.

Seen it and agree with your last sentence.

Isn't it ironic, and hypocritical at the same time, that forum members constantly whine about development over winning. And then turn around and criticize a program that is designed to enhance development all because their team didn't win.
What happened to all the development talk? Why not look at it as a way for your team to "develop" against higher caliber players, win or lose? I'm in no means defending CPP. Personally, I could care less one way or the other. CPP, no CPP. Bring in whomever you want, D1,D2, ECNL, heck bring some players in from SoCal. All I'm interested in is how my DD improves and competes against said players. As long as it's not an older player coming in, WHO CARES

futbollove wrote:Isn't it ironic, and hypocritical at the same time, that forum members constantly whine about development over winning. And then turn around and criticize a program that is designed to enhance development all because their team didn't win.
What happened to all the development talk? Why not look at it as a way for your team to "develop" against higher caliber players, win or lose? I'm in no means defending CPP. Personally, I could care less one way or the other. CPP, no CPP. Bring in whomever you want, D1,D2, ECNL, heck bring some players in from SoCal. All I'm interested in is how my DD improves and competes against said players. As long as it's not an older player coming in, WHO CARES

Why draw the line with age?

It is just an arbitrary date that is picked and gives certain birthdays a built in advantage. How is competing at age anymore of a meaningful criteria to drive development vs height, weight?

They are going to play against older kids in HS and college anyway.

Oh and yes both of mine played up to maximize development.

Lefty wrote:

futbollove wrote:Isn't it ironic, and hypocritical at the same time, that forum members constantly whine about development over winning. And then turn around and criticize a program that is designed to enhance development all because their team didn't win.
What happened to all the development talk? Why not look at it as a way for your team to "develop" against higher caliber players, win or lose? I'm in no means defending CPP. Personally, I could care less one way or the other. CPP, no CPP. Bring in whomever you want, D1,D2, ECNL, heck bring some players in from SoCal. All I'm interested in is how my DD improves and competes against said players. As long as it's not an older player coming in, WHO CARES

Why draw the line with age?

It is just an arbitrary date that is picked and gives certain birthdays a built in advantage.  How is competing at age anymore of a meaningful criteria to drive development vs height, weight?

They are going to play against older kids in HS and college anyway.

Oh and yes both of mine played up to maximize development.

Because txsoccer.net would overload from the outrage
I agree with you for the most part about age as well. If a kid can compete and get better playing against older kids, go for it. I don't think I see the benefit of allowing older kids to play in a younger league, or age division though.

futbollove wrote:

Lefty wrote:

futbollove wrote:Isn't it ironic, and hypocritical at the same time, that forum members constantly whine about development over winning. And then turn around and criticize a program that is designed to enhance development all because their team didn't win.
What happened to all the development talk? Why not look at it as a way for your team to "develop" against higher caliber players, win or lose? I'm in no means defending CPP. Personally, I could care less one way or the other. CPP, no CPP. Bring in whomever you want, D1,D2, ECNL, heck bring some players in from SoCal. All I'm interested in is how my DD improves and competes against said players. As long as it's not an older player coming in, WHO CARES

Why draw the line with age?

It is just an arbitrary date that is picked and gives certain birthdays a built in advantage.  How is competing at age anymore of a meaningful criteria to drive development vs height, weight?

They are going to play against older kids in HS and college anyway.

Oh and yes both of mine played up to maximize development.

Because txsoccer.net would overload from the outrage
I agree with you for the most part about age as well. If a kid can compete and get better playing against older kids, go for it. I don't think I see the benefit of allowing older kids to play in a younger league, or age division though.

The very top players in most age groups are as good and sometimes better than most all the players in age group one year older. Some of them are physically just as dominant as older players. In terms of impact on the field - a top player playing down is often no different than an older kid playing down. How can one be good for development and not the other?

soccerjack wrote:Might be smart to form a coalition  to represent the people that actually support this business.  We need a president bw it should be you.

Pretty sure I'm the last person you want in that position. Don't think many of the parents on here complaining about getting screwed over by CPP or unfair contracts with the club, would take it too kindly when I told them to "suck it up Buttercup".

Caveat Emptor my friends. Educate yourselves about the "system" that is NTX select soccer. Learn the NTSSA/LHGCL/PPL/APL rules. Do your research on clubs/teams/coaches. Don't overextend yourself financially. Emphasize the journey, not the destination. ...and... Most importantly, be honest and objective when it comes to your DD's ability vs. what her long term goals are.

Do all of that, and the likelihood that you end up getting caught off guard in a bad situation decreases exponentially.

IMO, the only way it would be good for development is if say a team that might have a big difference in talent level between top and bottom players on their roster have the players not getting many minutes CPP to a team in a lower division, especially if said team needs bodies. Not sure there is a way to quantify this as a rule change though.

Agree that top players playing down divisions doesn't help anyone get better.

bwgophers wrote:

soccerjack wrote:Might be smart to form a coalition  to represent the people that actually support this business.  We need a president bw it should be you.

Pretty sure I'm the last person you want in that position.  Don't think many of the parents on here complaining about getting screwed over by CPP or unfair contracts with the club, would take it too kindly when I told them to "suck it up Buttercup".

Caveat Emptor my friends.  Educate yourselves about the "system" that is NTX select soccer.  Learn the NTSSA/LHGCL/PPL/APL rules.  Do your research on clubs/teams/coaches.  Don't overextend yourself financially.  Emphasize the journey, not the destination.  ...and... Most importantly, be honest and objective when it comes to your DD's ability vs. what her long term goals are.  

Do all of that, and the likelihood that you end up getting caught off guard in a bad situation decreases exponentially.

Translation - Gophers is the establishment candidate!

haterinho wrote:

bwgophers wrote:Man, I can't wait until next year when my DD finally gets to High School and all of the politics, lack of coach loyalty, kids getting shuffled back and forth between teams, crappy refs, and unnecessary physical play goes away!  Whew!  Can't get here soon enough!

You need work on being sarcastic as much as I need work on hatering....wait - is that a word?

CPP has had a few positive effects...it allowed big clubs to seamlessly keep their byes and still field decent LH teams first year of ECNL. I suppose some have used it as intended in the (intentionally vague?) "spirit of the rule"...but enough have gone "buck wild" to conclude CPP sucks as currently implemented.

Put a cap on # of times a player can CPP in one season....CPP up unlimited, only allow CPP down to 1 lower level...and give parents no questions asked full release clause on any team that uses CPP more than n # of times in a year.

CPP in tournaments is to be expected, but rampant CPP in league play? Not good...might as well get rid of season long leagues and make all competitions club vs club, open roster mini tournaments.

BW I was hoping you were being sarcastic becasue if you believed what you were saying boy were you going to be in for a surprise once you get to HS.

haterinho - great post with some ideas for solutions (not just complaints) I had not heard before.  As for those who think its about player development and not winning you are kidding yourself in most situations.  How many times do the lower level players on a team get an opportunity to work on their game in these situations?

Coming from an area where you could not play down teams will get around that by rostering on the lower team and playing them up with their true primary team.  Clubs/teams will even get creative rostering non paying players outside their club to play before giving players within the club thaose opportunities.  Yet they forbid players in their club from enjoying guest opportunities outside their club.  Seeing how they really felt about development (go outside for talent rather than develop their own) led us to leave the next year.

Overall not a fan I believe in the play and develop who you committed to at the start of the year.

haterinho wrote:

futbollove wrote:

Lefty wrote:

futbollove wrote:Isn't it ironic, and hypocritical at the same time, that forum members constantly whine about development over winning. And then turn around and criticize a program that is designed to enhance development all because their team didn't win.
What happened to all the development talk? Why not look at it as a way for your team to "develop" against higher caliber players, win or lose? I'm in no means defending CPP. Personally, I could care less one way or the other. CPP, no CPP. Bring in whomever you want, D1,D2, ECNL, heck bring some players in from SoCal. All I'm interested in is how my DD improves and competes against said players. As long as it's not an older player coming in, WHO CARES

Why draw the line with age?

It is just an arbitrary date that is picked and gives certain birthdays a built in advantage.  How is competing at age anymore of a meaningful criteria to drive development vs height, weight?

They are going to play against older kids in HS and college anyway.

Oh and yes both of mine played up to maximize development.

Because txsoccer.net would overload from the outrage
I agree with you for the most part about age as well. If a kid can compete and get better playing against older kids, go for it. I don't think I see the benefit of allowing older kids to play in a younger league, or age division though.

The very top players in most age groups are as good and sometimes better than most all the players in age group one year older. Some of them are physically just as dominant as older players. In terms of impact on the field - a top player playing down is often no different than an older kid playing down. How can one be good for development and not the other?

It may be development for the team playing against them, but what good does it do for that player?

bwgophers wrote:

soccerjack wrote:Might be smart to form a coalition  to represent the people that actually support this business.  We need a president bw it should be you.

Pretty sure I'm the last person you want in that position.  Don't think many of the parents on here complaining about getting screwed over by CPP or unfair contracts with the club, would take it too kindly when I told them to "suck it up Buttercup".

Caveat Emptor my friends.  Educate yourselves about the "system" that is NTX select soccer.  Learn the NTSSA/LHGCL/PPL/APL rules.  Do your research on clubs/teams/coaches.  Don't overextend yourself financially.  Emphasize the journey, not the destination.  ...and... Most importantly, be honest and objective when it comes to your DD's ability vs. what her long term goals are.  

Do all of that, and the likelihood that you end up getting caught off guard in a bad situation decreases exponentially.

THIS

Unfortunately due to several severe injuries our team has had to use this. This last game even using CPP we had only 12 players and one went done in the first 15 minutes. So we played the rest of the game with just 11…without CPP we would have had to forfeit. Of course ours is not the reason everyone here is complaining about.

97mom wrote:Unfortunately due to several severe injuries our team has had to use this. This last game even using CPP we had only 12 players and one went done in the first 15 minutes. So we played the rest of the game with just 11…without CPP we would have had to forfeit. Of course ours is not the reason everyone here is complaining about.

Technically, you only need 7 players to start the match.

F. Number of Players
1. Minimum Number: A team must have a minimum of eight ( properly equipped
and uniformed players to start a game and seven (7) eligible players to continue a game. If both teams have at least eight ( players properly equipped and uniformed for the game, the game shall begin at the start time, and not wait for more players to arrive.

OLJW wrote:F. Number of Players
1. Minimum Number: A team must have a minimum of eight ( properly equipped
and uniformed players to start a game and seven (7) eligible players to continue a game. If both teams have at least eight ( players properly equipped and uniformed for the game, the game shall begin at the start time, and not wait for more players to arrive.

Law 3, my friend. No Jedi mind tricks on me! 

Number of Players

A match is played by two teams, each consisting of not more than eleven
players, one of whom is the goalkeeper. A match may not start if either team
consists of fewer than seven players.

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