FBR 06

the FBR reinforces the emphasis on results and not development, has no positive purpose for the players, and may potentially result in players dropping the sport at an early age.

It's just information, all information is neutral.

I do agree with Puskas. We want change in NTX soccer ranking team as a early age is the first change that needs to happen to promote possession and developing at our earlier age groups. I do think eventually they need to be ranked just not that young.

So before FBR, what was the culprit to the lack of possession and development?

I don't know, your right who is to say that the FBR is the problem. I think we need to try to reduce the amount of pressure put on players, coaches, and parents to hopefully stay with these coaches that are working to develope and promote the game rather than running to after these teams that are ranked at that early age. I would think the indepedent clubs would really be pushing for this.

There's other areas than just the Ol "it hinders development" argument.

One could also argue that its a way for some to evaluate whether a coach is decent.  Who should be coaching and who should not be? In the '06 girls ages, there are over 90 teams....who has time to go and evaluate even "1/2" of them?

Who wants their child to play for a team that loses all of their games?  Or that has all of their wins by playing in the lowest league possible?  I'm glad your DD is the best developed player on team, but can the coach translate this skill into a team when it really counts...at game time.  How about playing in the proper division?  Would sure hate to play in a upper division without knowing what sort of teams are there (or lower for that matter)

Or how about a clueless parent that doesn't know where to start looking for teams for their child?  Also, doesn't it let some parents find out how good their child really is and then they can place that child on a team that fits their child's ability?

Where else do you get a compiled list that someone else has already generated for you (for free mind you).

I am not the creator of the FBR.......but I do say one thing the creator...Thanks!

Thanks SocDad. I think you make valid points. Right now there are over 120 teams in my database after going through all the spring leagues and recent tournaments to get ready for this. I won't get on here and debate because obviously I am pro FBR or I wouldn't take the time to generate it.

futbollove wrote:So before FBR, what was the culprit to the lack of possession and development?

Human polls, the "PowerRankings", SoBeIt's Logical Rankings, Turfmonster, coaches without foreign accents, clubs that didn't own their own facilities with full-time paid DOC's on staff, parents who didn't pay $3k+ per year in dues, etc.

Now it just FBR's fault.

[quote="SocDad"]There's other areas than just the Ol "it hinders development" argument.

One could also argue that its a way for some to evaluate whether a coach is decent.  Who should be coaching and who should not be?  In the '06 girls ages, there are over 90 teams....who has time to go and evaluate even "1/2" of them?

Who wants their child to play for a team that loses all of their games?  Or that has all of their wins by playing in the lowest league possible?  I'm glad your DD is the best developed player on team, but can the coach translate this skill into a team when it really counts...at game time.  How about playing in the proper division?  Would sure hate to play in a upper division without knowing what sort of teams are there (or lower for that matter)

Or how about a clueless parent that doesn't know where to start looking for teams for their child?  Also, doesn't it let some parents find out how good their child really is and then they can place that child on a team that fits their child's ability?

Where else do you get a compiled list that someone else has already generated for you (for free mind you).

I am not the creator of the FBR.......but I do say one thing the creator...Thanks![/quote


What a great way to use the forum to talk about coaches and philosophies, clubs and developement, and those team playing a creative style. Instead of my DD beat your DD and I play for ( insert club ) . I have seen so much negative come from a list and bring out the ugly in people and groups that have come on here year after year and made ass of themselves. We preach change, this could be that start to take the pressure off 8 and 9 year old girls, coaches, clubs, and parents to let their kids enjoy the game and play without all the yelling and hate that is showing up in our leagues and on the playing field caused by a list.

No, not FBR fault! BW the FBR you have created is genius, but could it be used later in the game rather than at such a young age. Their is a time and place for the FBR

BW, you creation of FBR has grown greater than and has created a following like it's own religion that its words carry a tremendous amount of power. This power can be used for good but often is used to many times poorly and has started verbal wars and created hatred amongst people. We preach about changing NTX soccer might this be the start.

Zizou, I agree with you in part.
There does need to be an easing off of pressure on clubs, coaches and especially 8 and 9 year old girls. And parents that use the FBR in that way are certainly doing a disservice to their DD's as well as their teams.
However, as SocDad pointed out, there are positive uses for FBR as well. Noone wants to wait until they've written a 3k + check to find out, Lil Suzy's team isn't everything the coach has been preaching. This is especially true for 1st time parents with no prior soccer experiences.
The problem isn't so much FBR, but how one chooses to use it. I know of coaches and parents that actually use FBR as a sales pitch to recruit players. I also know of top 10 teams that the only way you would know they are a top team, is by coming on here and looking at FBR, or GOD forbid, actually watching them play and practice. The parents nor the coaches make mention of it. The problem isn't FBR, it's the adults.

But , posting a FBR maybe at u-11 would be more beneficial.

Zizou wrote:But , posting a FBR maybe at u-11 would be more beneficial.

There is already an FBR in place at u11....it's called LHGCL standings.

I,just don't see enough positive as you stated to out weight the negative use of the FBR. Parents getting out their and educating themselves might be a start. Rather than relying on opinions and wins and loss data to dictate.

There you go! A tournament and league that ranks them!

Opinions are exactly what FBR is void of. It is strictly wins/losses. How is that any different than league standings?

FBR is not the issue, it is the posting of these rankings that have pushed coaches,clubs and parents in the wrong direction. I wish it wasn't so,but we have created a monster could be hurting our kids.

SocDad wrote:

One could also argue that its a way for some to evaluate whether a coach is decent.  

Quite true. FBR plus a little legwork makes it fairly easy to identify the posers and manipulators that are all about the benjamins.

It also could be used by those coaches that are great recruiters and the next stud they recruit could replace your DD.

Zizou wrote:There you go! A tournament and league that ranks them!

Seriously Zizou???

You think the posting of FBR at U9 causes more damage and is more responsible for the emphasis on winning over development in NTX than the LHGCL Qualifying Tournament and Promotion/Relegation system?

FBR only exists and people only care about it because of the LHGCL QT at U11.

No, it's just the timing of it all. I do believe their is a time and place for it. Just not at 8,9,10

Okay, maybe 8 and 9 years of age.

Does this mean that handicapping U9 games is a bad thing?

A little different direction, but relevant to the topic at hand and something I've always scratched my head over...

My oldest DD plays select softball.  Been immersed in that scene in NTX longer than I have in the academy/select soccer scene.

- 90+% of the coaches in select softball don't get a single dime in income for their coaching.
- While there are some larger, more prominent "clubs" in the area, none of them have anywhere near the infrastructure of the soccer clubs in NTX, with paid DOC's and management staff, club-owned facilities, etc.
- There are no "contracts", players can move freely between teams/clubs at any time, outside of certain qualifying tournaments for regional or national events, there are minimal roster restrictions outside of age limits.  Guest play is common and happens all of the time.
- There is a forum, but it is used almost exclusively to post for teams looking for players, holding tryouts, looking for pickup (guest) players for a tournament.  Parents and coaches don't get on and lament about emphasis on winning over development, or poor umpires, or wring their hands because some team brought in a stud pickup pitcher and won a tournament last weekend...
- I have NEVER seen a ranking of local girls select softball teams in any age group, from U8 up to U18.

Despite all of this stuff that is in place in NTX soccer, but isn't in place in NTX softball, NTX still manages to be considered a regional hotbed of girls softball talent in the US (along with, and slightly behind, of course, SoCal).  Like soccer, the Brass Ring for 99% of the girls playing select softball in NTX is a College Scholarship, hopefully at a big time D1 program.  NTX regularly places girls on the US National Team, and the US has been dominant in international competition for years.

Always been curious as to why the outcome at the end of the tunnel is almost identical, but the path to get there is SOOOOOOO different?

bwgophers wrote:
Always been curious as to why the outcome at the end of the tunnel is almost identical, but the path to get there is SOOOOOOO different?

Two reasons:

1. The money to be made in soccer is from hoardes of bourgeoisie...softball is proletariat
2. A whole lot more dads are knowledgeable enough to teach softball...compared to soccer


The pressure  is not coming from FBR...or even really from promotion/relegation. It's coming from the commercialization of the sport. If youth coaches are paying mortgages off soccer fees from parents, I don't see how anyone could think FBR is the main force driving behavior.