FBR 06

@puskas, at what age should a score be kept or anything of that nature come into play in your opinion?

I'm in full agreement with Zizou that the parent, FBR, $$$ are the driving evil with youth soccer and overall development of our talent pool, but I have no issue with a score being kept, or there being winners and losers.

That's life, I'm not a participation ribbon kind of guy, but I also firmly believe in players being allowed to play and coaches being allowed to coach regardless of the scoreboard.

Keeping score is not the problem, ranking the teams is not the problem, heck even the money parents pay isn't the problem, we do those things in practically every other sport in the US and we pretty much dominate everything. Sure there are sports that we aren't the best at but that's generally because we don't get the best athletes playing those sports. Soccer and hockey are two that come to mind (on the male side of things), however on the female side of things were are damn good.

The only thing I'd change right now in NTX soccer is the need to play 11v11 so dang early. Not until the girls get to around u-12/11 should we even start playing on the bigger fields. Want to eliminate the long ball, play on a small field and the long ball is no longer a weapon. Want to improve first touch and spatial awareness, play on a smaller field. Leg strength is something that develops naturally over time and if your DD is planning on playing the game long term then this would be one of the last things I would have them focus on. Sadly though, because we move up to such big fields so quickly, there are more kids left behind and left out of soccer because they don't have a big enough leg to send in a great cross because the leg strength isn't there. Never mind that they are skilled enough to receive the ball, beat the defender and take the ball in deep, just shame on them for not being able to lift the ball up over the first line of defenders. That's not an issue on the smaller fields.

Rank the teams all you want, the kids don't have a clue unless a parent tells them. Heck 90% of the parents don't even know this site exists, what I've found is that there's generally one parent for each top team that reads the boards and responds. Other than that you can hear crickets chirp when asking parents about this site or the rankings.

For someone that doesn't have a kid playing anymore but still enjoys following youth soccer the FBR is a great tool for me to find where some of the better teams are playing. I personally have no desire to go watch kids that don't want to be out there or to listen to parents yell "boot it" and then applaud when some kid kicks the ball hard. Now that happens on all teams but less on the better ranked teams.

@Grand... have you seen the US women play lately compared to the other top countries... France as a good example, literally schooled us technically and tactically.

Someone else said it here recently... the US Women looked good before because we had been doing it longer... we have been caught by a good number of countries. Some in US Soccer have even been quoted as saying "we have been passed".

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Keeping score is not the problem, ranking the teams is not the problem, heck even the money parents pay isn't the problem, we do those things in practically every other sport in the US and we pretty much dominate everything. Sure there are sports that we aren't the best at but that's generally because we don't get the best athletes playing those sports. Soccer and hockey are two that come to mind (on the male side of things), however on the female side of things were are damn good.

The only thing I'd change right now in NTX soccer is the need to play 11v11 so dang early. Not until the girls get to around u-12/11 should we even start playing on the bigger fields. Want to eliminate the long ball, play on a small field and the long ball is no longer a weapon. Want to improve first touch and spatial awareness, play on a smaller field. Leg strength is something that develops naturally over time and if your DD is planning on playing the game long term then this would be one of the last things I would have them focus on. Sadly though, because we move up to such big fields so quickly, there are more kids left behind and left out of soccer because they don't have a big enough leg to send in a great cross because the leg strength isn't there. Never mind that they are skilled enough to receive the ball, beat the defender and take the ball in deep, just shame on them for not being able to lift the ball up over the first line of defenders. That's not an issue on the smaller fields.

Rank the teams all you want, the kids don't have a clue unless a parent tells them. Heck 90% of the parents don't even know this site exists, what I've found is that there's generally one parent for each top team that reads the boards and responds. Other than that you can hear crickets chirp when asking parents about this site or the rankings.

For someone that doesn't have a kid playing anymore but still enjoys following youth soccer the FBR is a great tool for me to find where some of the better teams are playing. I personally have no desire to go watch kids that don't want to be out there or to listen to parents yell "boot it" and then applaud when some kid kicks the ball hard. Now that happens on all teams but less on the better ranked teams.

Take the ranking out of the picture. Teams and coaches will not be pressured to rush to 11v11 to get head start on everyone. It's all about reducing the pressure which increases the rate at which we push our kids. This all to be the first and staying a top the rankings.

Borussia wrote:@Grand... have you seen the US women play lately compared to the other top countries... France as a good example, literally schooled us technically and tactically.  

Someone else said it here recently... the US Women looked good before because we had been doing it longer... we have been caught by a good number of countries.  Some in US Soccer have even been quoted as saying "we have been passed".

I dont think we've been passed. I think we've gotten to the point we can longer be wasteful in player selection, and it appears us soccer has realized that and adjusted accordingly. Look at the youth teams...demographics in YNT for both men and women are changing and player selections are looking more like a cross section of America...u17 women just schooled japan and the boys are looking like the real deal running circles around concacaf teams they've struggled with in the past. U.S Soccer appears headed in the right direction once you look beyond the senior teams and the biggest change is they are doing a better job identifying talent.

I watched the game. Thought France played well but I also thought we played a jumbled up lineup. Hardly looked like we were passed by, looked like they took advantage of a defender mistiming her jump on one goal and just dumb luck on the second goal. We had plenty of chances, not concerned. Also don't think the FBR had anything to do with that loss

Diccico is the one I saw quoted as saying we have been passed and he was referring to the Senior women's team.  

I agree on the youth, but a good question to ask is how many of those youth boys for example are being groomed at YourApeeIn academies and not here in the US?  The horses leading those squads are generally coming in from YourApeeIn academies on the boys side.

Zizou wrote:

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Keeping score is not the problem, ranking the teams is not the problem, heck even the money parents pay isn't the problem, we do those things in practically every other sport in the US and we pretty much dominate everything. Sure there are sports that we aren't the best at but that's generally because we don't get the best athletes playing those sports. Soccer and hockey are two that come to mind (on the male side of things), however on the female side of things were are damn good.

The only thing I'd change right now in NTX soccer is the need to play 11v11 so dang early. Not until the girls get to around u-12/11 should we even start playing on the bigger fields. Want to eliminate the long ball, play on a small field and the long ball is no longer a weapon. Want to improve first touch and spatial awareness, play on a smaller field. Leg strength is something that develops naturally over time and if your DD is planning on playing the game long term then this would be one of the last things I would have them focus on. Sadly though, because we move up to such big fields so quickly, there are more kids left behind and left out of soccer because they don't have a big enough leg to send in a great cross because the leg strength isn't there. Never mind that they are skilled enough to receive the ball, beat the defender and take the ball in deep, just shame on them for not being able to lift the ball up over the first line of defenders. That's not an issue on the smaller fields.

Rank the teams all you want, the kids don't have a clue unless a parent tells them. Heck 90% of the parents don't even know this site exists, what I've found is that there's generally one parent for each top team that reads the boards and responds. Other than that you can hear crickets chirp when asking parents about this site or the rankings.

For someone that doesn't have a kid playing anymore but still enjoys following youth soccer the FBR is a great tool for me to find where some of the better teams are playing. I personally have no desire to go watch kids that don't want to be out there or to listen to parents yell "boot it" and then applaud when some kid kicks the ball hard. Now that happens on all teams but less on the better ranked teams.

Take the ranking out of the picture. Teams and coaches will not be pressured to rush to 11v11 to get head start on everyone. It's all about reducing the pressure which increases the rate at which we push our kids. This all to be the first and staying a top the rankings.

My '01 DD made the move from rec to academy in the Spring of U9.  Her academy team was playing 9v9 at that time, but the top '01's (Bates, Grubb, Rowdies/Texans, D'Feeters, etc.) were already playing 11 v 11 in TGPL that spring and the "gold" U9 brackets in Primetime tournaments were 11v11.  By fall of U10, pretty much everyone was playing 11v11.

I didn't publish my first FBR ranking until midway through that fall U10 season.  Five years later, nothing has changed.  The better academy teams look to start playing 11v11 by the Spring of U9, and the overwhelming majority make the move to playing 11v11 at U10.

FBR has ZERO to do with pushing the kids to 11v11 pre-select.

Borussia wrote:Diccico is the one I saw quoted as saying we have been passed and he was referring to the Senior women's team.  

I agree on the youth, but a good question to ask is how many of those youth boys for example are being groomed at YourApeeIn academies and not here in the US?  The horses leading those squads are generally coming in from YourApeeIn academies on the boys side.

Which is exactly the way it SHOULD be. Our top players in national pools should be professionals or players on the professional track. That's who they are competing with internationally. The bigger issue to me is the diversity now seen in the player selections. Clearly the Latino influence is no longer being ignored at the youth level.

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I watched the game. Thought France played well but I also thought we played a jumbled up lineup. Hardly looked like we were passed by, looked like they took advantage of a defender mistiming her jump on one goal and just dumb luck on the second goal. We had plenty of chances, not concerned. Also don't think the FBR had anything to do with that loss

We see the game differently. No harm in that. I'm hoping we get it together. I'll be in Canada this summer for 2 weeks and am hoping for some US victories.

The rush to 11v11 came long before the rankings/FBR and they have nothing to do with it.  The rush to 11v11 comes from clubs wanting more money because bigger rosters mean more money. We can do that here in NTX because we have plenty of viable candidates, that is not the case in other states and cities.

I'm right on this, 11v11 is more of an issue than the FBR. Why do younger teams play up so early, is it because they want to improve their position in the FBR? Nope, it's because they have coaches and parents who think 11v11 is the way soccer should be played so teams rush to play 11v11. The rankings have nothing to do with the rush to play 11v11, heck playing up or playing boys does nothing buy hurt your FBR because those games don't count if I'm not mistaken. So you can't say that folks are rushing to play 11v11 because they want to move up in the FBR or even the rankings for LH's tournament. The problem with development is and will continue to be rushing to play 11v11 and NOT the FBR. Unless you read this site you don't have a clue what the FBR is or where your team is ranked.

It's not going to change though until the clubs and the leagues make that move. The consumers really have no voice in this current system because there's not enough folks willing to stand up and demand a change. Like I said, rank them all you want but until you change the mindset of rushing to play 11v11 we are always going to have the same problems we've always had.

Borussia wrote:

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I watched the game. Thought France played well but I also thought we played a jumbled up lineup. Hardly looked like we were passed by, looked like they took advantage of a defender mistiming her jump on one goal and just dumb luck on the second goal. We had plenty of chances, not concerned. Also don't think the FBR had anything to do with that loss

We see the game differently.  No harm in that. I'm hoping we get it together.  I'll be in Canada this summer for 2 weeks and am hoping for some US victories.

We probably didn't see it too differently, I don't disagree with you that France looked better tactically and technically for a better part of the game. I just look at roster we rolled out there and some of the lineup changes and how we looked didn't shock me.

Socal starts 11v11 at same age we do. Their parents rank players on their forums. Most years they 3 have times more players on national pools and usually lead the country in college D1 commits. 11v11 may be a factor,  but it's not a major one for the top players....this is likely because top coaches put their kids in a ton of small sided regardless whether they are playing 11v11 in a league.

Less specialization too, more kids playing more than one sport. One I see far too often is once a kid starts playing soccer here in NTX it's almost a cult like following. If you don't get 1000 touches you'll never amount to anything and heaven forbid you have a DD that enjoys playing another sport because you will soon find yourself on the outside looking in.

Basically, there are quite a few problems with soccer in NTX, however the FBR isn't one of them.

If you've never done FBR you don't know the fanatical following it has.

FBR is not the problem, but it is a byproduct of part of the problem for the younger ages.

Fanatical following doesn't = wide scale following. No doubt there are folks that get pissed off when their DD's team wins and yet they drop in the rankings. I've been following them since they were first release and I've seen the bile that BWG had put up with and how many times he's had to explain how it works.

Like I said though, it's not as widely known about as folks would like to believe. There are plenty of teams out there that have no clue about this site or what their ranking is and it's not helping them develop or not develop.

I really do hope this is a sign of things to come from the 06 board. The 05's have been pretty boring.

Must jump a year. 04s were pretty crazy at that age. Don't understand the tranquility with the 05s.

I will say fbr amongst the 06s is pretty well known. I can't speak for other age groups.

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Fanatical following doesn't = wide scale following. No doubt there are folks that get pissed off when their DD's team wins and yet they drop in the rankings. I've been following them since they were first release and I've seen the bile that BWG had put up with and how many times he's had to explain how it works.

Like I said though, it's not as widely known about as folks would like to believe. There are plenty of teams out there that have no clue about this site or what their ranking is and it's not helping them develop or not develop.

I really do hope this is a sign of things to come from the 06 board. The 05's have been pretty boring.

What ever! Dude pull you head out of the sand. Parents know plenty about this board and the FBR.

JM

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Less specialization too, more kids playing more than one sport. One I see far too often is once a kid starts playing soccer here in NTX it's almost a cult like following. If you don't get 1000 touches you'll never amount to anything and heaven forbid you have a DD that enjoys playing another sport because you will soon find yourself on the outside looking in.

Basically, there are quite a few problems with soccer in NTX, however the FBR isn't one of them.  

At the younger ages, it is the first problem that drives parents to begin their insanity.

What about the coaches that manipulate and use the FBR for recruiting?

Need scores for March 8 game CFBAL SilverB Mustangs Lopez 06 VS Sting East 07 Harr

I have all the other ones from this weekend ----just missing this one. Thanks!!!

Zizou wrote:What about the coaches that manipulate and use the FBR for recruiting?

It only works if they use a fake foreign accent while doing so...

Sorry BW,but someone has all ready let the cat out of the bag in a previous post on how to manipulate the FBR.

So you consider choosing to play in Platinum and losing games vs playing in Gold and winning manipulating the system. No coach looks at it and says, "you know, just think how many great kids I can recruit if I play in the platinum division and get killed and win one game." If anything they spend more time trying to not lose the kids on their team. I'm not sure of another way of manipulating the FBR. If you play up or play boys those games don't count but I don't even see that as manipulating the FBR. If anything that's a big old middle finger to the FBR because obviously those coaches don't care what the FBR says about them because after a while they will just up and vanish.

Every coach is always trying to manipulate whatever system is out there, so even without the FBR that won't change. What you keep talking about is a symptom of the problem. It's like blaming the donut for someone being fat. Take away the donut and there's still a laundry list of items that person will cram in their mouth. Take away the FBR and you will still find parents stressing out if their kid isn't playing on the best team and being pushed by the best players. You will still have parents upset that they are in the Gold division when they think they should be in Platinum. There will still be recruiting and player movement.

If you want things to change, start somewhere else beyond the FBR. I'm serious, 95% of the kids have no clue what the FBR is and the 5% that do have crappy parents that share that information with them. The majority of parents don't read this board or check the FBR weekly. Come about a month before LHQT you will have more folks checking it out, primarily because it's been very accurate as to who will make LH's.

Doesn't matter what you do there will always be rankings, either consciously (FBR) or subconsciously (Leagues and TD saying one team is Platinum and the other Gold, etc..) if that bothers you I'm truly sorry because you are screwed.

The only way I know to manipulate the FBR is straight cash homie!

$100 for every spot you want to move up in the top 10
$50 for every spot you want to move up from 11-20
$25 for every spot you want to move up from 21-30

$500 if you want me to move your team into the top 30

Please make all checks payable to "Gophers 529 Plan"